Changing oil too often will harm your engine
03-23-2012, 04:44 AM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: 07-26-09
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Changing oil too often will harm your engine
found this interesting post on another forum.
Oil type/changes
here is a cut and paste to save time. is there any truth at all to this claim? never heard of it TBH!
QUOTE FROM ABOVE
Save your money and save your engine
A lot of the advice above is typical forum-perpetuated myth. Someone on this forum recently stated that it can't hurt to change your oil too often. Unfortunately that couldn't be more wrong.
The Problem
5000 km change intervals are harmful to your engine and our DI engines are even more vulnerable to the type of damage done by over servicing than PFI engines.
Why does the problem exist?
It's a cultural thing that arose in the US and was driven by marketing and profit making. The consequent myths and consumer expectations are now entrenched. The cultural gap is now so broad than in the US a car may have an 8000km OCI, while the same model, from the same production line, might have a 20,000 km OCI when sold in Europe where people aren't affected by the myths.
Why it's OK to follow the manufacturers service interval
All synthetic oils are capable of exceeding the manufacturers recommended OCI by at least 50% or more. It's incorrect to suggest the oil could break down or succumb to sludge any earlier.
People using oil analysis reports to justify over servicing aren't reading them correctly. None of the reports that I've seen on DISI engines have shown oil that has reached condemning limits in terms of insolubles and oxidation. As for the solubles, if they are excessive, you need to drive the car further, not change the oil.
The references to carbon contamination are also incorrect. People naturally assume that black oil is unhealthy, when the opposite is true. The colour of the oil is an indication of how well it's doing its job. The darker the better (up to a point not exceeding the manufacturers OCI).
If you had a problem with contamination (not that you do, but if you did) the solution is to change the oil filter, not the oil.
Why is it harmful to change the oil too frequently?
In a word; volatility. Oil volatility is at its greatest in the first 3000km after an oil change. After that the volatility reduces and the oil stabilises.
Volatility is particularly bad for a DI engine because all of the lost fractions exit via the PCV system. Much of it goes out through the rocker cover vent, into the intake, through the turbo compressor and intercooler, then puddles in the bottom of the inlet manifold where it combines with the stuff coming through the PCV valve to coat the inlet valves and combustion chambers in gunk.
That black soot you see in your exhaust pipes, don’t assume it’s all caused by rich mixture. Excessive oil changing will contribute more soot.
The presence of oil in the intake also lowers the octane rating of your fuel leading to detonation.
The NOACK volatility test quantifies the extent of oil evaporation. The test standard - ASTM D5800 - 08 Standard Test Method for Evaporation Loss of Lubricating Oils by the Noack Method – also hints at another kind of danger associated with frequent oil changes where it states “Procedure C, using the Selby-Noack apparatus, also permits collection of the volatile oil vapors for determination of their physical and chemical properties. Elemental analysis of the collected volatiles may be helpful in identifying components such as phosphorous, which has been linked to premature degradation of the emission system catalyst.”
A lot of phosphorous is lost in the initial boil-off phase of new oil and it’s likely to be harming oxygen sensors and cats.
Engine manufacturers understand the problem and it would be easy for them to identify the type of damage done by over servicing and potentially result in a warranty claim denial.
Summary
By changing your oil at 5000km, you are subjecting your engine to oil that is almost always in the initial boil-off phase. It's contaminating and filling your engine with gunk. Contrary to popular and uninformed opinion, oil that is 10,000 km old is not likely to be harmful, and would certainly be less harmful than fresh oil.
I've never changed my oil more frequently than the specified 10,000 km OCI and my engine is in perfect condition after 106,000 km with no problems with contamination, gunk or soot.
When my warranty expires I would have no qualms running my oil out to 12,500 or even 15,000 km providing an oil analysis indicates that insolubles and oxidation are not excessive. And I'm sure my engine will thank me for it by remaining in peak uncontaminated condition.
Oil type/changes
here is a cut and paste to save time. is there any truth at all to this claim? never heard of it TBH!
QUOTE FROM ABOVE
Save your money and save your engine
A lot of the advice above is typical forum-perpetuated myth. Someone on this forum recently stated that it can't hurt to change your oil too often. Unfortunately that couldn't be more wrong.
The Problem
5000 km change intervals are harmful to your engine and our DI engines are even more vulnerable to the type of damage done by over servicing than PFI engines.
Why does the problem exist?
It's a cultural thing that arose in the US and was driven by marketing and profit making. The consequent myths and consumer expectations are now entrenched. The cultural gap is now so broad than in the US a car may have an 8000km OCI, while the same model, from the same production line, might have a 20,000 km OCI when sold in Europe where people aren't affected by the myths.
Why it's OK to follow the manufacturers service interval
All synthetic oils are capable of exceeding the manufacturers recommended OCI by at least 50% or more. It's incorrect to suggest the oil could break down or succumb to sludge any earlier.
People using oil analysis reports to justify over servicing aren't reading them correctly. None of the reports that I've seen on DISI engines have shown oil that has reached condemning limits in terms of insolubles and oxidation. As for the solubles, if they are excessive, you need to drive the car further, not change the oil.
The references to carbon contamination are also incorrect. People naturally assume that black oil is unhealthy, when the opposite is true. The colour of the oil is an indication of how well it's doing its job. The darker the better (up to a point not exceeding the manufacturers OCI).
If you had a problem with contamination (not that you do, but if you did) the solution is to change the oil filter, not the oil.
Why is it harmful to change the oil too frequently?
In a word; volatility. Oil volatility is at its greatest in the first 3000km after an oil change. After that the volatility reduces and the oil stabilises.
Volatility is particularly bad for a DI engine because all of the lost fractions exit via the PCV system. Much of it goes out through the rocker cover vent, into the intake, through the turbo compressor and intercooler, then puddles in the bottom of the inlet manifold where it combines with the stuff coming through the PCV valve to coat the inlet valves and combustion chambers in gunk.
That black soot you see in your exhaust pipes, don’t assume it’s all caused by rich mixture. Excessive oil changing will contribute more soot.
The presence of oil in the intake also lowers the octane rating of your fuel leading to detonation.
The NOACK volatility test quantifies the extent of oil evaporation. The test standard - ASTM D5800 - 08 Standard Test Method for Evaporation Loss of Lubricating Oils by the Noack Method – also hints at another kind of danger associated with frequent oil changes where it states “Procedure C, using the Selby-Noack apparatus, also permits collection of the volatile oil vapors for determination of their physical and chemical properties. Elemental analysis of the collected volatiles may be helpful in identifying components such as phosphorous, which has been linked to premature degradation of the emission system catalyst.”
A lot of phosphorous is lost in the initial boil-off phase of new oil and it’s likely to be harming oxygen sensors and cats.
Engine manufacturers understand the problem and it would be easy for them to identify the type of damage done by over servicing and potentially result in a warranty claim denial.
Summary
By changing your oil at 5000km, you are subjecting your engine to oil that is almost always in the initial boil-off phase. It's contaminating and filling your engine with gunk. Contrary to popular and uninformed opinion, oil that is 10,000 km old is not likely to be harmful, and would certainly be less harmful than fresh oil.
I've never changed my oil more frequently than the specified 10,000 km OCI and my engine is in perfect condition after 106,000 km with no problems with contamination, gunk or soot.
When my warranty expires I would have no qualms running my oil out to 12,500 or even 15,000 km providing an oil analysis indicates that insolubles and oxidation are not excessive. And I'm sure my engine will thank me for it by remaining in peak uncontaminated condition.
03-23-2012, 07:26 AM
#2
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: 07-30-11
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do they explain the noise? I've always noticed, as I'm sure many have, that your motor will get quite a bit noisier when the oil needs changing and that's usually before 5000 miles (I know you were using km, I'm just saying...). After the oil change, things are nice and quiet and "sound healthy".
03-23-2012, 01:25 PM
#5
the copied text was taken from a Australian based forum;
most countries (mine included) use KM - not miles ~ so there's no attempt on the part of the writer to "make(s) the numbers appear way more impressive"...
03-23-2012, 01:36 PM
#6
Nobody has recommended a 5000km (~3000mi) oil change interval in probably 20 years either. Changing it at 6600mi intervals for 66k miles and of still looks good. So does almost every other car on the road.
03-23-2012, 03:11 PM
#13
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: 07-24-11
Location: Bradenton, FL.
Posts: 2,983
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
keeping clean oil in your engine doesnt reduce the life of the engine...geez.
I replace my oil every 3k miles and my car just turned 40k miles. I live in florida, and it gets super hot and humid, so i wanat to make sure my oil has little break down and build up...
I replace my oil every 3k miles and my car just turned 40k miles. I live in florida, and it gets super hot and humid, so i wanat to make sure my oil has little break down and build up...
03-23-2012, 03:27 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-13-08
Location: Strasburg, VA/ Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 1,913
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
How do they explain the noise? I've always noticed, as I'm sure many have, that your motor will get quite a bit noisier when the oil needs changing and that's usually before 5000 miles (I know you were using km, I'm just saying...). After the oil change, things are nice and quiet and "sound healthy".
03-23-2012, 03:52 PM
#15
I've usually been a 3000 mile for everything i've ever had. First change on my car was 23444 from 20230. I've heard you can wait like 5000 or some other interval on some synthetics. Who is really right? I always thought you were better off to have clean oil and filter more often than not.
03-23-2012, 04:05 PM
#16
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: 03-22-11
Location: Mass/NH
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've worked on cars for years now, and I have NEVER heard of someone saying changing your oil to SOON will harm it. It's always the other way around where the customer wants to run their car for 15K on non-synthetic 10w30 plain jane oil its never I wanna run my car synthetic oil for 3K and change it. That honestly has to be one of the silliest things I have ever read.
03-23-2012, 04:17 PM
#17
I've usually been a 3000 mile for everything i've ever had. First change on my car was 23444 from 20230. I've heard you can wait like 5000 or some other interval on some synthetics. Who is really right? I always thought you were better off to have clean oil and filter more often than not.
Also better oils, filters, and engines improve service intervals. 3k was totally reasonable at 1point. Now its not for normal usage.
Last edited by emiller; 03-23-2012 at 04:23 PM.
03-23-2012, 04:47 PM
#18
Think about it though. Oil companies and oil change places make money off sales. The more you change it the more they sell. The manufacturer makes nothing on oil changes so no benefit in changing it a lot but go too long and wreck the engine and its them taking to blame and potentially replacing engines under warranty.
Also better oils, filters, and engines improve service intervals. 3k was totally reasonable at 1point. Now its not for normal usage.
Also better oils, filters, and engines improve service intervals. 3k was totally reasonable at 1point. Now its not for normal usage.
03-23-2012, 06:58 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-15-10
Location: South Charleston, WV
Posts: 3,997
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
It all depends on your driving and if you actually run Mobil1 or better oil. If you drive aggressively and around town all the time, I'd change it atleast every 3-5000 miles. If you drive easy and mostly highway, theres no reason you couldn't get up to 7000 miles out of an oil change. I usually change mine between every 5-6000 due to me driving aggressively only once in a while and mostly doing interstate driving.
03-23-2012, 07:17 PM
#20
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: 04-17-07
Location: Willis, Michigan
Posts: 3,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i do mine every 7500miles. tho theres this guy who changes his cars every month or 1k miles. hes nuts. i love when people ask if there oil is dirty? wtf does that mean. ive seen peoples cars come in with 11k miles and the oil smells burnt as if you left food in a hot oven. ive also changed peoples oil at what they call the break in oil change of 2-3k miles and it comes out as clear as it whent in. i have the issue of oil in intake only beacuse i get on it hard and only drive 30 miles a day.
03-23-2012, 08:03 PM
#21
i do mine every 7500miles. tho theres this guy who changes his cars every month or 1k miles. hes nuts. i love when people ask if there oil is dirty? wtf does that mean. ive seen peoples cars come in with 11k miles and the oil smells burnt as if you left food in a hot oven. ive also changed peoples oil at what they call the break in oil change of 2-3k miles and it comes out as clear as it whent in. i have the issue of oil in intake only beacuse i get on it hard and only drive 30 miles a day.
I change mine when the olm is around 10-15%.
03-23-2012, 08:23 PM
#24
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: 09-28-05
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No the lubeication properties of syn oils never break down. It's the antifoam anti rust and other modifiers that break down. Even in conventional oils it's over 20000kms b4 the lubrication properties start to break down. But what people forget it that the filter gets dirty, the oil hits sheer points and the modifiers break down.
03-23-2012, 10:59 PM
#25
New Member
Join Date: 04-12-08
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It all depends on your driving and if you actually run Mobil1 or better oil. If you drive aggressively and around town all the time, I'd change it atleast every 3-5000 miles. If you drive easy and mostly highway, theres no reason you couldn't get up to 7000 miles out of an oil change. I usually change mine between every 5-6000 due to me driving aggressively only once in a while and mostly doing interstate driving.