New LDK and blown K04r seals - need advise
08-05-2016, 01:44 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
New LDK and blown K04r seals - need advise
Sooo, swapped in brand new crate LDK motor. Put comp cams 10w30 oil in the engine, seated the Rings as zzp advises. Drove car for 200 miles to get dyno tuned (varying mph and engine speed during the trip). Dyno tuned car on same oil. Drove back on same oil. Noticed she's burning oil. Checked plugs, and not burning oil in cylinders. So obviously, the turbo seals are done. The shavings I found in old motor oil filter are minimal I think.(old motor lost some compression in Cyl4, not all. Compression test @75psi) The shavings I found in new motors oil filter are 3x worse. It's obvious this new LDK engine was not ran before shipped from factory so it's not unheard of to find some shavings I believe. Most shavings are shiny aluminum colored and there are a few brass looking shavings. This is the case for BOTH filters. Newer engine filter just has more.
Sooooo, I'm not sure what the hell to do. Are all these shavings coming from the turbo? OR is the shavings what destroyed turbo seals? What are the brass colored shavings from? Do I run it some more with an oil change and new filter before sending in turbo? I don't wanna get turbo fixed and run shavings through it again if that is indeed what cause the seal failure. Any advise or wisdom would be greatly appreciated guys. I can't make up my mind what to do.
Sooooo, I'm not sure what the hell to do. Are all these shavings coming from the turbo? OR is the shavings what destroyed turbo seals? What are the brass colored shavings from? Do I run it some more with an oil change and new filter before sending in turbo? I don't wanna get turbo fixed and run shavings through it again if that is indeed what cause the seal failure. Any advise or wisdom would be greatly appreciated guys. I can't make up my mind what to do.
08-05-2016, 06:21 AM
#3
I don't have experience with rebuilding these motors but I do with v8's. When you say a lot, what does that look like, and what is the size of them. If the motor is thrown together on an assembly line it's reasonable to assume that there could have been a few clearances not 100%. So if it's light flaking I could see that. I would not send the turbo in till you have rid the motor of them. I would do oil changes frequently to ensure they are getting trapped out of your filter and not run high rpm till they get flushed through the motor. Remember if they are effecting the turbo seals they also may be floating around crank and rod bearings. Have you had someone follow you to verify its smoking under boost and not just while you are driving normal?
08-05-2016, 09:41 AM
#4
Senior Member
possibility of the metal shavings coming just from the turbo, if it did i reckon that turbo would have a ridiculous amount of end play. have you pulled the turbo off to check it?
08-05-2016, 04:12 PM
#6
Senior Member
^troof it would be chewed up bearings, OP when you swapped the new motor in did you prime the turbo by removing the fuel pump fuse and relay then crank it?
08-06-2016, 02:01 AM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I don't have experience with rebuilding these motors but I do with v8's. When you say a lot, what does that look like, and what is the size of them. If the motor is thrown together on an assembly line it's reasonable to assume that there could have been a few clearances not 100%. So if it's light flaking I could see that. I would not send the turbo in till you have rid the motor of them. I would do oil changes frequently to ensure they are getting trapped out of your filter and not run high rpm till they get flushed through the motor. Remember if they are effecting the turbo seals they also may be floating around crank and rod bearings. Have you had someone follow you to verify its smoking under boost and not just while you are driving normal?
Absolutely. Even when I first got the turbo, I did like 3-4 key cycles to get everything primed. After that, I even had a buddy start the car while I held the compressor wheel to make sure it never spun without oil. When I swapped turbo onto new engine, I didn't have another set of hands and turbo wasn't brand new but engine was. I cranked the engine 5 or 6 key cycles before introducing fuel. So it cranked for at least 1 minutes before I started it. This is shitty. I'm always super careful with this stuff. Seems the old turbo may have actually been the demise of old motor considering the fact it never lost all compression. So a scored cylinder wall may be what happened.
08-06-2016, 08:14 AM
#8
So what are you going to do now? This is my first turbo car but in the past the brass shavings have always pointed to bearings in my Na motors. If the plugs look good and you are satisfied with compression, I would keep flushing new oil through the motor to get all the shaving out before they impact the pump or bearings. And pull the turbo apart to see what's going on there.
08-06-2016, 09:19 AM
#9
Thats really unfortunate.
I have my own deal with turbo bay. I bought a brand new k04r second hand. It has not been run yet. The guy was parting out the car before he put it on. It has which is in my opinion exsessive shaft play but was told oil will take up the tolerences. Now with ball bearing turbos they generally have a little shaft play and when it recieves oil and oil prrssure
it wont have any.
Now matt at turbobay told me to run 5w40 oil...... this to me is a way of saying his tolerences are loose or he cant get the tolerences tighter. Even with all the road racing i do i have never found a need for 40 weight oil in these motors.
When i worked at werks our k04+ was done by pte. None of them had even a 1/4 of the shaft play these have.they also are double the price. Matt does a lot of work to these turbos for what they cost. I will give him that but i feel due to the cost and what ive seen with these turbos and now hearing of excessive shaft play more then once i feel the quality is not there in comparison.
My suggestion to you is to remove the turbo and cycle oil through the engine 3 to 4 times. Brass is generally very soft and chances are if you catch it in time it wont do any damage. If you need additional hrlp or support pm me. Ill shoot you my number
I have my own deal with turbo bay. I bought a brand new k04r second hand. It has not been run yet. The guy was parting out the car before he put it on. It has which is in my opinion exsessive shaft play but was told oil will take up the tolerences. Now with ball bearing turbos they generally have a little shaft play and when it recieves oil and oil prrssure
it wont have any.
Now matt at turbobay told me to run 5w40 oil...... this to me is a way of saying his tolerences are loose or he cant get the tolerences tighter. Even with all the road racing i do i have never found a need for 40 weight oil in these motors.
When i worked at werks our k04+ was done by pte. None of them had even a 1/4 of the shaft play these have.they also are double the price. Matt does a lot of work to these turbos for what they cost. I will give him that but i feel due to the cost and what ive seen with these turbos and now hearing of excessive shaft play more then once i feel the quality is not there in comparison.
My suggestion to you is to remove the turbo and cycle oil through the engine 3 to 4 times. Brass is generally very soft and chances are if you catch it in time it wont do any damage. If you need additional hrlp or support pm me. Ill shoot you my number
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LNFwagonSS (08-06-2016)
08-06-2016, 12:42 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Appreciate the advise/help guys. Today my plan is to pull off the turbo, oil pan, oil pump, timing stuff, and get as much of that crap outta there.
For reference I'll post pics of the oil filter media.
Old motor oil filter, k&n oil filter, about 3k miles
New motor oil filter, stock oil filter, about 450 miles
It's hard to tell from the pics but just know the bottom/newer filter is 3x worse than the old k&n filter
For reference I'll post pics of the oil filter media.
Old motor oil filter, k&n oil filter, about 3k miles
New motor oil filter, stock oil filter, about 450 miles
It's hard to tell from the pics but just know the bottom/newer filter is 3x worse than the old k&n filter
08-06-2016, 07:03 PM
#11
Appreciate the advise/help guys. Today my plan is to pull off the turbo, oil pan, oil pump, timing stuff, and get as much of that crap outta there. For reference I'll post pics of the oil filter media. Old motor oil filter, k&n oil filter, about 3k miles New motor oil filter, stock oil filter, about 450 miles It's hard to tell from the pics but just know the bottom/newer filter is 3x worse than the old k&n filter
08-06-2016, 07:48 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
It's getting sent back to turbo bay. If I didn't already spend 2k on the LDK I would kill it with fire and mount a bw257 in its place. The k04r is already tuned for so Ill just have it fixed and use it the rest of the summer then go with a better turbo this winter. Not many miles on this turbo, maybe 2k. Still, I shouldn't judge it quite yet as I'm not 100% sure it's the entire problem.
08-06-2016, 07:57 PM
#13
Thats really unfortunate. I have my own deal with turbo bay. I bought a brand new k04r second hand. It has not been run yet. The guy was parting out the car before he put it on. It has which is in my opinion exsessive shaft play but was told oil will take up the tolerences. Now with ball bearing turbos they generally have a little shaft play and when it recieves oil and oil prrssure it wont have any. Now matt at turbobay told me to run 5w40 oil...... this to me is a way of saying his tolerences are loose or he cant get the tolerences tighter. Even with all the road racing i do i have never found a need for 40 weight oil in these motors. When i worked at werks our k04+ was done by pte. None of them had even a 1/4 of the shaft play these have.they also are double the price. Matt does a lot of work to these turbos for what they cost. I will give him that but i feel due to the cost and what ive seen with these turbos and now hearing of excessive shaft play more then once i feel the quality is not there in comparison. My suggestion to you is to remove the turbo and cycle oil through the engine 3 to 4 times. Brass is generally very soft and chances are if you catch it in time it wont do any damage. If you need additional hrlp or support pm me. Ill shoot you my number
Omiotek I messaged Dave last week about maybe pulling the trigger on a 6258. Probably be my winter project. Thanks for your advice and for helping Lnf wagon.
08-07-2016, 01:13 AM
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Looks like a lot of play but this is pretty much how it was when I got it. I know another guy who got one shortly after me and he said his had zero play and he knows his **** so wtf...
08-07-2016, 06:53 AM
#15
Looks like a lot of play but this is pretty much how it was when I got it. I know another guy who got one shortly after me and he said his had zero play and he knows his **** so wtf... Video Link: https://youtu.be/tihYEVguDfg
08-07-2016, 10:32 AM
#16
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
I'm on my third year running the + and Vahdyx (now ecaulk 's car) had one a year before I got one. Pretty sure it's still going strong.
Omiotek I messaged Dave last week about maybe pulling the trigger on a 6258. Probably be my winter project. Thanks for your advice and for helping Lnf wagon.
Omiotek I messaged Dave last week about maybe pulling the trigger on a 6258. Probably be my winter project. Thanks for your advice and for helping Lnf wagon.
Looks like a lot of play but this is pretty much how it was when I got it. I know another guy who got one shortly after me and he said his had zero play and he knows his **** so wtf...
End play woes - YouTube
End play woes - YouTube
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08-08-2016, 03:34 AM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Well, after teardown, all I found was minimal debris. Thank God! Found zero metal debris in oil pickup, oil pump, timing components, chains oil squirter, cam phasers, actuators, and turbo oil inlet And no damaged parts from said debris. I will not take apart turbo as I do not want to void any warranty which sucks because I won't be able to confirm failure with my own eyes. This is my first "engine break in with blown turbo, component inspection/oil flush" lmao. So I was unsure of what I would find. The bottom of the oil pan had most if not all of the debris. Most of which was tiny bits of aluminum presumably casting flash. Only a couple specs of brass and and some peices of steel. Most of the steel peices were very thin strands. Looked identical to an eye lash or short peices of human hair. I have not and will not pull the motor down to rod/crank/cam bearing inspection levels as I feel it's not necessary at this time. Turbo being sent out tomorrow for "free inspection". So far, turbobay has been easy to do with. I hope he can make this thing right at minimal cost.
08-08-2016, 08:16 AM
#20
Well, after teardown, all I found was minimal debris. Thank God! Found zero metal debris in oil pickup, oil pump, timing components, chains oil squirter, cam phasers, actuators, and turbo oil inlet And no damaged parts from said debris. I will not take apart turbo as I do not want to void any warranty which sucks because I won't be able to confirm failure with my own eyes. This is my first "engine break in with blown turbo, component inspection/oil flush" lmao. So I was unsure of what I would find. The bottom of the oil pan had most if not all of the debris. Most of which was tiny bits of aluminum presumably casting flash. Only a couple specs of brass and and some peices of steel. Most of the steel peices were very thin strands. Looked identical to an eye lash or short peices of human hair. I have not and will not pull the motor down to rod/crank/cam bearing inspection levels as I feel it's not necessary at this time. Turbo being sent out tomorrow for "free inspection". So far, turbobay has been easy to do with. I hope he can make this thing right at minimal cost.
08-09-2016, 03:25 PM
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Totaled sedan?! When did this happen?
12-26-2016, 01:54 PM
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter