P013E with ZZP Catted DP, solutions?
08-04-2010, 08:25 PM
#26
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You assume he has someone at home...
But seriously, why has no one come out with a rear 02 simulator for these cars yet?
Edit: i went ahead and contacted Casper Electronics regarding making a O2 sim for these cars. If i had the time/tools it looks pretty easy.
But seriously, why has no one come out with a rear 02 simulator for these cars yet?
Edit: i went ahead and contacted Casper Electronics regarding making a O2 sim for these cars. If i had the time/tools it looks pretty easy.
08-04-2010, 09:16 PM
#27
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Yeah .... thats alot more than mine ever popped. I have my old cortex hooked up as a gauge so i could clear the code as soon as it popped up ...... pulling the battery cable would have got old that many times.
08-04-2010, 11:21 PM
#28
you didnt think that through to well did you,
our car's need to detect the lean burn on deceleration,
an o2 simulator would have to be pretty complex, and communicate with the computer to simulate this
generally the simulator will just simulate a constant "good" exhaust flow, so thats pretty much out of the question
as for your guys comment about someone at home, i bought something, and it isnt doing what i expected, so I am going to fix it, I would rather do that then be one of the people who are lazy and would just say oh well i guess il just accept that its going to throw a code
08-05-2010, 02:16 AM
#29
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you didnt think that through to well did you,
our car's need to detect the lean burn on deceleration,
an o2 simulator would have to be pretty complex, and communicate with the computer to simulate this
generally the simulator will just simulate a constant "good" exhaust flow, so thats pretty much out of the question
as for your guys comment about someone at home, i bought something, and it isnt doing what i expected, so I am going to fix it, I would rather do that then be one of the people who are lazy and would just say oh well i guess il just accept that its going to throw a code
our car's need to detect the lean burn on deceleration,
an o2 simulator would have to be pretty complex, and communicate with the computer to simulate this
generally the simulator will just simulate a constant "good" exhaust flow, so thats pretty much out of the question
as for your guys comment about someone at home, i bought something, and it isnt doing what i expected, so I am going to fix it, I would rather do that then be one of the people who are lazy and would just say oh well i guess il just accept that its going to throw a code
08-05-2010, 03:40 AM
#31
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BTW, Did you read the HAHN info? If you're hell bent on *fixing* the
ZZP unit...then maybe you can get a clue here...if you're into the fabrication thing.
Good luck with that...
http://www.turbosystem.com/ProjectVe...20downpipe.htm
08-05-2010, 01:10 PM
#32
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So what you are saying is that your o2 sensor on your trailblazer didn't even detect the cat issue... Yet you are still determined it must be kept for "what if" sorry guy I've deleted every rear o2 ever and whether or not the car still had a cat I never had issues. Also you don't need a sensor to clue you into a clogged cat.
I was just trying to come up with an easy solution for you. It really isn't that hard, just need an oscillating simulator, it wouldn't be the first turbo car to have one made.
I was just trying to come up with an easy solution for you. It really isn't that hard, just need an oscillating simulator, it wouldn't be the first turbo car to have one made.
08-05-2010, 07:21 PM
#34
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The front O2 sensor monitors a/f ratio. Hence why the rear is normally deleted, and why so many people in here have told you its frivolous... I understand your concerns but if you are that worried about running lean, get a wideband.
08-05-2010, 08:16 PM
#35
man, dont you understand the code i am getting
the second o2 in our cars monitors the a/f mixture
The sensor changes voltage when the a/f mixture changes
DTC P013E: HO2S Delayed Response Rich to Lean Sensor 2
Conditions for Setting the DTC
P013E
• The ECM detects that more than 4 seconds are required from the beginning of DFCO for the sensor voltage to fall below 0.14 volt.
OR
• The ECM detects that more than 4 grams of integrated air mass have passed through the system since the beginning of DFCO and the sensor voltage remains above 0.14 volt.
so you can build your simulator, and it will send the constant flow voltage all the time, but when the car says whoa, i just sent a bunch of air through the engine, with no fuel, and your telling me your still reading fuel ding Cel is on
the second o2 in our cars monitors the a/f mixture
The sensor changes voltage when the a/f mixture changes
DTC P013E: HO2S Delayed Response Rich to Lean Sensor 2
Conditions for Setting the DTC
P013E
• The ECM detects that more than 4 seconds are required from the beginning of DFCO for the sensor voltage to fall below 0.14 volt.
OR
• The ECM detects that more than 4 grams of integrated air mass have passed through the system since the beginning of DFCO and the sensor voltage remains above 0.14 volt.
so you can build your simulator, and it will send the constant flow voltage all the time, but when the car says whoa, i just sent a bunch of air through the engine, with no fuel, and your telling me your still reading fuel ding Cel is on
08-05-2010, 11:40 PM
#38
I know the first sensor is a wideband and is the one the engine adjusts its fuel/air/spark to,
I never once said it wasnt, so I didnt say anything that was in correct
but this code is clearly saying sensor 2 is taking too long to react to the a/f changes
now why sensor 2 reads these is unknown to me, it could be to further help the vehicle optimize it's self
or it could be to simply avoid people doing what they have been doing , moving the sensor further out of the exhaust to eliminate a cel when an improper cat is used
I never once said it wasnt, so I didnt say anything that was in correct
but this code is clearly saying sensor 2 is taking too long to react to the a/f changes
now why sensor 2 reads these is unknown to me, it could be to further help the vehicle optimize it's self
or it could be to simply avoid people doing what they have been doing , moving the sensor further out of the exhaust to eliminate a cel when an improper cat is used
08-05-2010, 11:58 PM
#39
The primary purpose of the secondary sensor is to check cat efficiency, hence the P0420 code if the sensor is too close with a high flow cat. The P013E error codes simply mean that the sensor is reacting slowly, for whatever reason. It's likely there as a self monitor on the secondary O2 sensor to monitor one of the failure conditions of that narrow band O2 sensor. Moving the secondary sensor to a further location happens to trigger this as well. I doubt they put it in simply as a way to deter the use of a defouler.
08-06-2010, 06:13 PM
#40
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It is you who doesnt get it. the simulator intercepts the signal, the ECM would not give a **** if you poured water on that rear 02 sensor.... I dont care if you put another bung in just to pump fresh oxygen in behind the cat that rear 02 would not change a damn thing with a 02 sim in place.
You want to know why the code is thrown, you already have your answer. Move it around closer/further and you either get the p013e or p0420. Its just hyper sensitive.
I dont have a ZZP cat, but my MPx had several bungs and since i dont give a **** about this sensor so long as it doesnt toss a CEL i have moved it several places with or without the defouler with varying degrees of sucess.
I have moved it to the very front both the angled and straight bungs it throws a CEL p013e near the cat with the defouler in/ and a p0420 with no defouler. I did move it to the rear bung that was meant for the wideband with a defouler and ran over 3k miles before the first CEL.
Its annoying and when the warranty is up it will be getting a tune to just be done with it honestly. I really dont know what you want from all of this, everyone has told you exactly what you need to know, you just arent happy with the answers.
If anything was a permanent fix or a 100% solution besides a tune or going back to stock, dont you think someone would have mentioned it?
I know the first sensor is a wideband and is the one the engine adjusts its fuel/air/spark to,
I never once said it wasnt, so I didnt say anything that was in correct
but this code is clearly saying sensor 2 is taking too long to react to the a/f changes
now why sensor 2 reads these is unknown to me, it could be to further help the vehicle optimize it's self
or it could be to simply avoid people doing what they have been doing , moving the sensor further out of the exhaust to eliminate a cel when an improper cat is used
I never once said it wasnt, so I didnt say anything that was in correct
but this code is clearly saying sensor 2 is taking too long to react to the a/f changes
now why sensor 2 reads these is unknown to me, it could be to further help the vehicle optimize it's self
or it could be to simply avoid people doing what they have been doing , moving the sensor further out of the exhaust to eliminate a cel when an improper cat is used
08-06-2010, 06:49 PM
#41
you really dont get it man
the secondary sensor NEEDS TO DETECT DECEL FUEL CUT OFF, and the ULTRA LEAN SITUATION THAT IT CAUSES
your simulator would not be able to tell when the car went ultra lean, unless it was a hell of alot more advanced than just simulating flow, it would need to be tied into the computer
the secondary sensor NEEDS TO DETECT DECEL FUEL CUT OFF, and the ULTRA LEAN SITUATION THAT IT CAUSES
your simulator would not be able to tell when the car went ultra lean, unless it was a hell of alot more advanced than just simulating flow, it would need to be tied into the computer
08-06-2010, 07:05 PM
#42
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Yes... no O2 simulator on earth has ever worked with anything beyond a OBDI computer.... Must be some giant algorithm of a signal they have these new fangled O2 sensors sending now............ DFCO is just for emissions and gas savings BTW.
Tune DFCO out if you are afraid of the ULTRA LEAN SITUATION THAT IS CAUSES, even if its done on purpose. Jeezus christ dude... either mod the car or go stock. You cant have it all when you mod. Whats next, you want a SRI that is quiet because you cant accept the fact it makes the car louder? You want better grip from the conti's but refuse to buy a different tire because there has to be a way to get them to pull 1g?
Tune DFCO out if you are afraid of the ULTRA LEAN SITUATION THAT IS CAUSES, even if its done on purpose. Jeezus christ dude... either mod the car or go stock. You cant have it all when you mod. Whats next, you want a SRI that is quiet because you cant accept the fact it makes the car louder? You want better grip from the conti's but refuse to buy a different tire because there has to be a way to get them to pull 1g?
08-06-2010, 07:37 PM
#43
i'm not tuning the car, im not afraid of the ultra lean situation it causes,
im saying the o2 simulator would not tell the computer its reading is ultra lean, so then the cel would set, unless you found a way to tap into the computer with your o2 sim, and then have the o2 sim know when to send this ultra lean signal, but by the time you do that and perfect the timing of it all , you could potentially have a voided warranty for tapping into the pcm, not to mention i would sooner get a tune than go through all that, this thread is done, you guys are not going to suggest something that will help my problems go away, all i have gotten is the same responses over and over again, i know their are snags that come with modding, which is why i was talking about modifying the o2 bung, also I didnt realize zzp was offering an inferior product compared to hahns, or i would have spent the extra money, i was uneductated on the topic of downpipe manufacters and now i am paying for it with my cel, and the money i will have to spend to eliminate it
im saying the o2 simulator would not tell the computer its reading is ultra lean, so then the cel would set, unless you found a way to tap into the computer with your o2 sim, and then have the o2 sim know when to send this ultra lean signal, but by the time you do that and perfect the timing of it all , you could potentially have a voided warranty for tapping into the pcm, not to mention i would sooner get a tune than go through all that, this thread is done, you guys are not going to suggest something that will help my problems go away, all i have gotten is the same responses over and over again, i know their are snags that come with modding, which is why i was talking about modifying the o2 bung, also I didnt realize zzp was offering an inferior product compared to hahns, or i would have spent the extra money, i was uneductated on the topic of downpipe manufacters and now i am paying for it with my cel, and the money i will have to spend to eliminate it
08-07-2010, 05:16 AM
#44
Senior Member
i'm not tuning the car, im not afraid of the ultra lean situation it causes,
im saying the o2 simulator would not tell the computer its reading is ultra lean, so then the cel would set, unless you found a way to tap into the computer with your o2 sim, and then have the o2 sim know when to send this ultra lean signal, but by the time you do that and perfect the timing of it all , you could potentially have a voided warranty for tapping into the pcm, not to mention i would sooner get a tune than go through all that, this thread is done, you guys are not going to suggest something that will help my problems go away, all i have gotten is the same responses over and over again, i know their are snags that come with modding, which is why i was talking about modifying the o2 bung, also I didnt realize zzp was offering an inferior product compared to hahns, or i would have spent the extra money, i was uneductated on the topic of downpipe manufacters and now i am paying for it with my cel, and the money i will have to spend to eliminate it
im saying the o2 simulator would not tell the computer its reading is ultra lean, so then the cel would set, unless you found a way to tap into the computer with your o2 sim, and then have the o2 sim know when to send this ultra lean signal, but by the time you do that and perfect the timing of it all , you could potentially have a voided warranty for tapping into the pcm, not to mention i would sooner get a tune than go through all that, this thread is done, you guys are not going to suggest something that will help my problems go away, all i have gotten is the same responses over and over again, i know their are snags that come with modding, which is why i was talking about modifying the o2 bung, also I didnt realize zzp was offering an inferior product compared to hahns, or i would have spent the extra money, i was uneductated on the topic of downpipe manufacters and now i am paying for it with my cel, and the money i will have to spend to eliminate it
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