Official TVS Thread!!!
04-07-2012, 10:42 PM
#277
Rent me! per hour
Join Date: 03-22-07
Location: Still fixing others mistakes.
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"Chrome Valve Cover Breather that simply replaces your oil cap on your valve cover. Used to let air into the crank case on supercharged engines or to vent crank gases on engines with aftermarket power adders."
Then why would ZZP sell it if it's only going to cause problems?
Then why would ZZP sell it if it's only going to cause problems?
please. keep it up. you're doing a fantastic job thus far.
sealed catch can. -10 an line off the valve cover in the crank case vent ports built into the valve cover. that line runs to the catch can. -10an line to the air intake.
done.
04-08-2012, 01:04 AM
#279
you know zero about what was sold in the past by lsj performance suppliers.
please. keep it up. you're doing a fantastic job thus far.
sealed catch can. -10 an line off the valve cover in the crank case vent ports built into the valve cover. that line runs to the catch can. -10an line to the air intake.
done.
please. keep it up. you're doing a fantastic job thus far.
sealed catch can. -10 an line off the valve cover in the crank case vent ports built into the valve cover. that line runs to the catch can. -10an line to the air intake.
done.
Did you need purchase an a aftermarket accessory to put in place to prevent the oil from leaving the valve cover, or was the baffling at the filler sufficient?
04-08-2012, 02:02 AM
#280
thats what the can is for! lol
04-09-2012, 08:03 PM
#290
$20 + shipping
The Best Water injection system and water methanol injection systems at AlcoholInjectionSystems.com
$26.25 + shipping
Snow Performance : Nozzles
04-09-2012, 10:05 PM
#292
yea but was/is that sufficient enough to relieve the pressure? I get why you used the catch can but running just one line from the vent port doesnt seem like it would relieve any more excessive pressure than the stock setup. NM after looking harder at your picture i see what you did there
04-09-2012, 10:29 PM
#293
Rent me! per hour
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see. there is a reason why i did the things i did, and it lived through it all.
sad thing is. the build book has way more information that people realize. just have to look at it and a different angle.
sad thing is. the build book has way more information that people realize. just have to look at it and a different angle.
04-10-2012, 08:38 AM
#295
about to clock 80k on mine. Got the 2.6 ring 1000cc injectors, and will be going E85 but on my 12.1 pass did push the dipstick up a **** hair. Still perfect comp accross the board, but im going to do a beather setup similiar to yours before the 2.6 and the 11 second passes.
04-10-2012, 08:40 AM
#296
about to clock 80k on mine. Got the 2.6 ring 1000cc injectors, and will be going E85 but on my 12.1 pass did push the dipstick up a **** hair. Still perfect comp accross the board, but im going to do a beather setup similiar to yours before the 2.6 and the 11 second passes.
04-13-2012, 02:32 PM
#297
I posted this on RLFs and I thought I would share over here.
So I have a little update on my car.
I have gone through many experiments with exhaust setups to find the best combo of cost, sound and performance.
GMPP manifold, ZZP 3" DP, Magnaflow 2.5" cat-back - It sounded great for about a year but like most Magnaflow products, the resonator and muffler wore out. It is a nice flowing setup for an M62 LSJ.
~Lesson Learned. Magnaflow products will wear out.
Bought first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, CTI 3" cat-back with Magnaflow products - It never really sounded good. It was loud but it was what I thought I needed for my first TVS setup. That is back when everyone said you HAD to have a 3" cat-back. It got me pulled over way too many times so it had to go.
~Lesson Learned. Run a cat. Magnaflow products still suck. A 3" cat-back is very loud. Very few ways around it.
Sold first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, LNF cat-back - It was fine under idle and cruise but loud and raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF cat-back sounds like ass on a LSJ. I assumed it was the short LNF resonator giving me issues but I was wrong.
CTI Header Combo, Metal Spun Cat, SW 24" Smooth Tube as Resonator, LNF Muffler - It was a little louder under cruise and idle then the previous setup. But it would get raspy under the slightest load and it was very raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF resonator was not the problem. The LNF muffler is the problem. I added almost $300 to the cat-back (Cat, SW Resonator) and it sounded worse then just the LNF resonator.
Ported Stock Manifold, Stock LSJ DP, Stock LSJ Cat-back. Sounds good. Very quite. Stock is not bad as I originally thought.
~Lesson Learned. Their are restrictions with a stock setup even on the M62. With my CTI 3" setup and 2.6" pulley on the M62 I would see max boost around 16psi. With this setup I would see over 17.5psi. The low to mid range was great but the engine was working hard at the higher RPMS and it would fall on its face past 5500rpms. It is way too restrictive.
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. This is better. There is some noticeable "performance" sound to the exhaust but it is not loud under any conditions. I am very happy.
~Lesson Learned. Free up the restrictions where the exhaust gases are the hottest which is closest to the head. That will give you the best bank for the buck. Max boost dropped to about 16.5psi. I would be happy to drive with this setup for the life of the car on a M62.
Bought Second TVS
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. Same as above. This is where I am at right now.
~Lesson Learned. There are more restrictions with this cat-back when paired with the TVS. On a 2.9" pulley with my first TVS and my CTI 3" setup I would see max boost right around 20.5psi. Now I will hit 22psi.
***Anyone who says that it is fine to run a TVS with a cat-back that is "smaller then stock" is blowing smoke up your ass. They are not giving you all the details of their setup and are trying to miss lead you into believe the GMPP cat-back does not flow better then the stock LSJ cat-back just because the GMPP is 2.25". But it goes way beyond that. I have talked about this enough so if you want more info, search some of my other recent posts.***
More information on my setup right now.
The outlet on the DP of the ZZP LT combo for a 2.5" cat-back is actually 2 3/8". The inlet to the resonator on the stock LSJ cat-back is ~ 2 1/8. Maybe even smaller. So the next restriction I need to address is the inlet to the resonator and the rest of the LSJ stock cat-back.
I know a few guys running 3" cat-backs that sounds pretty good. But I want a 2.5" cat-back. Getting pulled over sucks. The cops like my car. I don't want to give them any reason to turn on the Red and Blues behind me. I will not take any unnecessary risks. So for the last few months I have been trying to figure out how to build and a quite/affordable 2.5" cat-back.
I figured the best way to get the exhaust I wanted to was to build my own. So I need a resonator, 2.5" mandrel bent piping and a muffler. What to do...
Resonator
1. Anything Magnaflow is out. Along with anything that has any packing.
2. My experiment with the SW smooth tube was a complete failure. A stock 12" LNF resonator sounded better then the SW 24" one and a metal spun cat.
3. I have read a lot of good things about the Moroso spiral flow resonators. They are basic resonator with and exhaust auger insert. They are short and affordable. Trusted people on this forum swear by exhaust augers but they are hard to find in a 2.5" version. If someone knows of one, let me know!
4. The LNF resonator performed well. The inlet measures like 2.65". So enough for a 2.5" cat-back.
5. ZZP's new 3 chambered round resonator. Don't know much about it but it is big and long which is what you want in a resonator.
6. Vibrant Ultra Quite works on a LSJ. I have heard paired with a SW Turbo chambered muffler and it sounds great. Even in 3". But the case is big and need to be installed at an angle to fit in the LSJ exhaust tunnel.
Piping
1. Stock LSJ is 2.5" ID then goes down to 2.25" ID and gets a nice little crush bend. Not going to work for me.
2. CTI 2.5" over axle was actually my original idea that I gave *****. (I have not seen any royalties..) But at $95 it was a touch pricey for an arm length of tube.
3. MBES tubing kit. Almunized is $120 and SS is $195. Ehhh. That would be a last resort.
4. Stock LNF is 2.5" OD and mandrel bent from the resonator to the muffler. That would probably work well if I could find one.
5. Used 2.5" piping from an aftermarket cat-back. This would work great for the right price. But no one would want to sell an aftermarket cat-back minus the resonator and muffler. I mean, they would not want to sell it for what I want to pay.
Muffler
1. SW Turbo Chambered Muffler is the only muffler I have heard on multiple cars that sounds good on every car. And according to trusted sources, it has lasted the test of time.
2. Borla, Dynomax, Magnaflow, ect I have heard a lot of varying results. Some sound good. Some people think they sound good. Some just sounds like *ss.
3. Twin Loop Muffler? A guy on RLFs installed an ebay one on his car and the initial video sounds okay. But after almost two months he has not commented on how it is working out so I am a little skeptical. A good twin loop costs $400.
3. Stock LSJ muffler if all else fails.
So how to find the right combo...
I narrowed it down to two options.
1. $$$$$$$
$119 - ZZP Resonator
ZZPerformance - ZZP Stainless Resonator #ZZ-304RES
$195 - MBS SS Tubing kit
04-07 SATURN ION EXHAUST TUBING KIT
$30 x 2 SS V-bands
V Band Clamps
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding.
$591 + shipping on all those products from different companies.
2. $$$$$
$0 - LNF Resonator (I already have)
$65 - Moroso Spiral Flow Resonator
Amazon.com: Moroso 94050 High Flow Stainless Steel Muffler: Automotive
$120 - MBS Aluminized tubing kit
$17 x 2 V-band connections
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding
$436 + shipping from all these companies
Even the cheaper option was going to cost ~$500 which I think is a little high.
Some people call me cheap. I am not cheap. I know how to spend money the right way to make HP. Adding a cat-back is not going to give you a ton of HP. It will allow you to make more HP with good tuning. People have stuck a lot of money into LSJs and their cars are still slow. Be smart and spend your money in the right place.
After some more thought, I emailed ZZP about making a 2.5" cat-back for the RL. They said their new 2.5" 3 chambered Muffler will not fit on a RL. I really don't understand why but that is what they said. I asked about having them make me a custom one and they were hesitant at first. But the next day, they said they could make me a 2.5" cat-back with their new big *ss resonator and a Magnaflow muffler for $450. So I pulled the trigger.
I am not a fan of magnaflow products. That is pretty clear in this post. But I will be happy if the muffler last for a year. Then I can replace it with a SW one. Either way, I now have a reasonably priced cat-back that I can bolt-on and I know it will fit great. ZZP has to custom build the cat-back so I am sure it will be a week or two before it gets delivered. No biggie.
There are already a couple of clips of the ZZP 2.5" cat-back on Cobalts on this forum. I have been satisfied with the way they sound so far...
So after YEARS of experimenting with different exhaust systems I have put my faith in ZZP.
Thoughts? Comments?
So I have a little update on my car.
I have gone through many experiments with exhaust setups to find the best combo of cost, sound and performance.
GMPP manifold, ZZP 3" DP, Magnaflow 2.5" cat-back - It sounded great for about a year but like most Magnaflow products, the resonator and muffler wore out. It is a nice flowing setup for an M62 LSJ.
~Lesson Learned. Magnaflow products will wear out.
Bought first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, CTI 3" cat-back with Magnaflow products - It never really sounded good. It was loud but it was what I thought I needed for my first TVS setup. That is back when everyone said you HAD to have a 3" cat-back. It got me pulled over way too many times so it had to go.
~Lesson Learned. Run a cat. Magnaflow products still suck. A 3" cat-back is very loud. Very few ways around it.
Sold first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, LNF cat-back - It was fine under idle and cruise but loud and raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF cat-back sounds like ass on a LSJ. I assumed it was the short LNF resonator giving me issues but I was wrong.
CTI Header Combo, Metal Spun Cat, SW 24" Smooth Tube as Resonator, LNF Muffler - It was a little louder under cruise and idle then the previous setup. But it would get raspy under the slightest load and it was very raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF resonator was not the problem. The LNF muffler is the problem. I added almost $300 to the cat-back (Cat, SW Resonator) and it sounded worse then just the LNF resonator.
Ported Stock Manifold, Stock LSJ DP, Stock LSJ Cat-back. Sounds good. Very quite. Stock is not bad as I originally thought.
~Lesson Learned. Their are restrictions with a stock setup even on the M62. With my CTI 3" setup and 2.6" pulley on the M62 I would see max boost around 16psi. With this setup I would see over 17.5psi. The low to mid range was great but the engine was working hard at the higher RPMS and it would fall on its face past 5500rpms. It is way too restrictive.
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. This is better. There is some noticeable "performance" sound to the exhaust but it is not loud under any conditions. I am very happy.
~Lesson Learned. Free up the restrictions where the exhaust gases are the hottest which is closest to the head. That will give you the best bank for the buck. Max boost dropped to about 16.5psi. I would be happy to drive with this setup for the life of the car on a M62.
Bought Second TVS
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. Same as above. This is where I am at right now.
~Lesson Learned. There are more restrictions with this cat-back when paired with the TVS. On a 2.9" pulley with my first TVS and my CTI 3" setup I would see max boost right around 20.5psi. Now I will hit 22psi.
***Anyone who says that it is fine to run a TVS with a cat-back that is "smaller then stock" is blowing smoke up your ass. They are not giving you all the details of their setup and are trying to miss lead you into believe the GMPP cat-back does not flow better then the stock LSJ cat-back just because the GMPP is 2.25". But it goes way beyond that. I have talked about this enough so if you want more info, search some of my other recent posts.***
More information on my setup right now.
The outlet on the DP of the ZZP LT combo for a 2.5" cat-back is actually 2 3/8". The inlet to the resonator on the stock LSJ cat-back is ~ 2 1/8. Maybe even smaller. So the next restriction I need to address is the inlet to the resonator and the rest of the LSJ stock cat-back.
I know a few guys running 3" cat-backs that sounds pretty good. But I want a 2.5" cat-back. Getting pulled over sucks. The cops like my car. I don't want to give them any reason to turn on the Red and Blues behind me. I will not take any unnecessary risks. So for the last few months I have been trying to figure out how to build and a quite/affordable 2.5" cat-back.
I figured the best way to get the exhaust I wanted to was to build my own. So I need a resonator, 2.5" mandrel bent piping and a muffler. What to do...
Resonator
1. Anything Magnaflow is out. Along with anything that has any packing.
2. My experiment with the SW smooth tube was a complete failure. A stock 12" LNF resonator sounded better then the SW 24" one and a metal spun cat.
3. I have read a lot of good things about the Moroso spiral flow resonators. They are basic resonator with and exhaust auger insert. They are short and affordable. Trusted people on this forum swear by exhaust augers but they are hard to find in a 2.5" version. If someone knows of one, let me know!
4. The LNF resonator performed well. The inlet measures like 2.65". So enough for a 2.5" cat-back.
5. ZZP's new 3 chambered round resonator. Don't know much about it but it is big and long which is what you want in a resonator.
6. Vibrant Ultra Quite works on a LSJ. I have heard paired with a SW Turbo chambered muffler and it sounds great. Even in 3". But the case is big and need to be installed at an angle to fit in the LSJ exhaust tunnel.
Piping
1. Stock LSJ is 2.5" ID then goes down to 2.25" ID and gets a nice little crush bend. Not going to work for me.
2. CTI 2.5" over axle was actually my original idea that I gave *****. (I have not seen any royalties..) But at $95 it was a touch pricey for an arm length of tube.
3. MBES tubing kit. Almunized is $120 and SS is $195. Ehhh. That would be a last resort.
4. Stock LNF is 2.5" OD and mandrel bent from the resonator to the muffler. That would probably work well if I could find one.
5. Used 2.5" piping from an aftermarket cat-back. This would work great for the right price. But no one would want to sell an aftermarket cat-back minus the resonator and muffler. I mean, they would not want to sell it for what I want to pay.
Muffler
1. SW Turbo Chambered Muffler is the only muffler I have heard on multiple cars that sounds good on every car. And according to trusted sources, it has lasted the test of time.
2. Borla, Dynomax, Magnaflow, ect I have heard a lot of varying results. Some sound good. Some people think they sound good. Some just sounds like *ss.
3. Twin Loop Muffler? A guy on RLFs installed an ebay one on his car and the initial video sounds okay. But after almost two months he has not commented on how it is working out so I am a little skeptical. A good twin loop costs $400.
3. Stock LSJ muffler if all else fails.
So how to find the right combo...
I narrowed it down to two options.
1. $$$$$$$
$119 - ZZP Resonator
ZZPerformance - ZZP Stainless Resonator #ZZ-304RES
$195 - MBS SS Tubing kit
04-07 SATURN ION EXHAUST TUBING KIT
$30 x 2 SS V-bands
V Band Clamps
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding.
$591 + shipping on all those products from different companies.
2. $$$$$
$0 - LNF Resonator (I already have)
$65 - Moroso Spiral Flow Resonator
Amazon.com: Moroso 94050 High Flow Stainless Steel Muffler: Automotive
$120 - MBS Aluminized tubing kit
$17 x 2 V-band connections
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding
$436 + shipping from all these companies
Even the cheaper option was going to cost ~$500 which I think is a little high.
Some people call me cheap. I am not cheap. I know how to spend money the right way to make HP. Adding a cat-back is not going to give you a ton of HP. It will allow you to make more HP with good tuning. People have stuck a lot of money into LSJs and their cars are still slow. Be smart and spend your money in the right place.
After some more thought, I emailed ZZP about making a 2.5" cat-back for the RL. They said their new 2.5" 3 chambered Muffler will not fit on a RL. I really don't understand why but that is what they said. I asked about having them make me a custom one and they were hesitant at first. But the next day, they said they could make me a 2.5" cat-back with their new big *ss resonator and a Magnaflow muffler for $450. So I pulled the trigger.
I am not a fan of magnaflow products. That is pretty clear in this post. But I will be happy if the muffler last for a year. Then I can replace it with a SW one. Either way, I now have a reasonably priced cat-back that I can bolt-on and I know it will fit great. ZZP has to custom build the cat-back so I am sure it will be a week or two before it gets delivered. No biggie.
There are already a couple of clips of the ZZP 2.5" cat-back on Cobalts on this forum. I have been satisfied with the way they sound so far...
So after YEARS of experimenting with different exhaust systems I have put my faith in ZZP.
Thoughts? Comments?
Last edited by ebristol; 04-13-2012 at 02:39 PM.
04-13-2012, 02:36 PM
#298
I have also bought two Cobalt Addiction/Bad-Mab/Ebay headers in the past but sold them before I installed them. I think there is something to be said about equal lenght headers with collectors that match the firing order of the engine. That is why I chose ZZP's LT.
04-13-2012, 02:46 PM
#299
I posted this on RLFs and I thought I would share over here.
So I have a little update on my car.
I have gone through many experiments with exhaust setups to find the best combo of cost, sound and performance.
GMPP manifold, ZZP 3" DP, Magnaflow 2.5" cat-back - It sounded great for about a year but like most Magnaflow products, the resonator and muffler wore out. It is a nice flowing setup for an M62 LSJ.
~Lesson Learned. Magnaflow products will wear out.
Bought first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, CTI 3" cat-back with Magnaflow products - It never really sounded good. It was loud but it was what I thought I needed for my first TVS setup. That is back when everyone said you HAD to have a 3" cat-back. It got me pulled over way too many times so it had to go.
~Lesson Learned. Run a cat. Magnaflow products still suck. A 3" cat-back is very loud. Very few ways around it.
Sold first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, LNF cat-back - It was fine under idle and cruise but loud and raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF cat-back sounds like ass on a LSJ. I assumed it was the short LNF resonator giving me issues but I was wrong.
CTI Header Combo, Metal Spun Cat, SW 24" Smooth Tube as Resonator, LNF Muffler - It was a little louder under cruise and idle then the previous setup. But it would get raspy under the slightest load and it was very raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF resonator was not the problem. The LNF muffler is the problem. I added almost $300 to the cat-back (Cat, SW Resonator) and it sounded worse then just the LNF resonator.
Ported Stock Manifold, Stock LSJ DP, Stock LSJ Cat-back. Sounds good. Very quite. Stock is not bad as I originally thought.
~Lesson Learned. Their are restrictions with a stock setup even on the M62. With my CTI 3" setup and 2.6" pulley on the M62 I would see max boost around 16psi. With this setup I would see over 17.5psi. The low to mid range was great but the engine was working hard at the higher RPMS and it would fall on its face past 5500rpms. It is way too restrictive.
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. This is better. There is some noticeable "performance" sound to the exhaust but it is not loud under any conditions. I am very happy.
~Lesson Learned. Free up the restrictions where the exhaust gases are the hottest which is closest to the head. That will give you the best bank for the buck. Max boost dropped to about 16.5psi. I would be happy to drive with this setup for the life of the car on a M62.
Bought Second TVS
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. Same as above. This is where I am at right now.
~Lesson Learned. There are more restrictions with this cat-back when paired with the TVS. On a 2.9" pulley with my first TVS and my CTI 3" setup I would see max boost right around 20.5psi. Now I will hit 22psi.
***Anyone who says that it is fine to run a TVS with a cat-back that is "smaller then stock" is blowing smoke up your ass. They are not giving you all the details of their setup and are trying to miss lead you into believe the GMPP cat-back does not flow better then the stock LSJ cat-back just because the GMPP is 2.25". But it goes way beyond that. I have talked about this enough so if you want more info, search some of my other recent posts.***
More information on my setup right now.
The outlet on the DP of the ZZP LT combo for a 2.5" cat-back is actually 2 3/8". The inlet to the resonator on the stock LSJ cat-back is ~ 2 1/8. Maybe even smaller. So the next restriction I need to address is the inlet to the resonator and the rest of the LSJ stock cat-back.
I know a few guys running 3" cat-backs that sounds pretty good. But I want a 2.5" cat-back. Getting pulled over sucks. The cops like my car. I don't want to give them any reason to turn on the Red and Blues behind me. I will not take any unnecessary risks. So for the last few months I have been trying to figure out how to build and a quite/affordable 2.5" cat-back.
I figured the best way to get the exhaust I wanted to was to build my own. So I need a resonator, 2.5" mandrel bent piping and a muffler. What to do...
Resonator
1. Anything Magnaflow is out. Along with anything that has any packing.
2. My experiment with the SW smooth tube was a complete failure. A stock 12" LNF resonator sounded better then the SW 24" one and a metal spun cat.
3. I have read a lot of good things about the Moroso spiral flow resonators. They are basic resonator with and exhaust auger insert. They are short and affordable. Trusted people on this forum swear by exhaust augers but they are hard to find in a 2.5" version. If someone knows of one, let me know!
4. The LNF resonator performed well. The inlet measures like 2.65". So enough for a 2.5" cat-back.
5. ZZP's new 3 chambered round resonator. Don't know much about it but it is big and long which is what you want in a resonator.
6. Vibrant Ultra Quite works on a LSJ. I have heard paired with a SW Turbo chambered muffler and it sounds great. Even in 3". But the case is big and need to be installed at an angle to fit in the LSJ exhaust tunnel.
Piping
1. Stock LSJ is 2.5" ID then goes down to 2.25" ID and gets a nice little crush bend. Not going to work for me.
2. CTI 2.5" over axle was actually my original idea that I gave *****. (I have not seen any royalties..) But at $95 it was a touch pricey for an arm length of tube.
3. MBES tubing kit. Almunized is $120 and SS is $195. Ehhh. That would be a last resort.
4. Stock LNF is 2.5" OD and mandrel bent from the resonator to the muffler. That would probably work well if I could find one.
5. Used 2.5" piping from an aftermarket cat-back. This would work great for the right price. But no one would want to sell an aftermarket cat-back minus the resonator and muffler. I mean, they would not want to sell it for what I want to pay.
Muffler
1. SW Turbo Chambered Muffler is the only muffler I have heard on multiple cars that sounds good on every car. And according to trusted sources, it has lasted the test of time.
2. Borla, Dynomax, Magnaflow, ect I have heard a lot of varying results. Some sound good. Some people think they sound good. Some just sounds like *ss.
3. Twin Loop Muffler? A guy on RLFs installed an ebay one on his car and the initial video sounds okay. But after almost two months he has not commented on how it is working out so I am a little skeptical. A good twin loop costs $400.
3. Stock LSJ muffler if all else fails.
So how to find the right combo...
I narrowed it down to two options.
1. $$$$$$$
$119 - ZZP Resonator
ZZPerformance - ZZP Stainless Resonator #ZZ-304RES
$195 - MBS SS Tubing kit
04-07 SATURN ION EXHAUST TUBING KIT
$30 x 2 SS V-bands
V Band Clamps
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding.
$591 + shipping on all those products from different companies.
2. $$$$$
$0 - LNF Resonator (I already have)
$65 - Moroso Spiral Flow Resonator
Amazon.com: Moroso 94050 High Flow Stainless Steel Muffler: Automotive
$120 - MBS Aluminized tubing kit
$17 x 2 V-band connections
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding
$436 + shipping from all these companies
Even the cheaper option was going to cost ~$500 which I think is a little high.
Some people call me cheap. I am not cheap. I know how to spend money the right way to make HP. Adding a cat-back is not going to give you a ton of HP. It will allow you to make more HP with good tuning. People have stuck a lot of money into LSJs and their cars are still slow. Be smart and spend your money in the right place.
After some more thought, I emailed ZZP about making a 2.5" cat-back for the RL. They said their new 2.5" 3 chambered Muffler will not fit on a RL. I really don't understand why but that is what they said. I asked about having them make me a custom one and they were hesitant at first. But the next day, they said they could make me a 2.5" cat-back with their new big *ss resonator and a Magnaflow muffler for $450. So I pulled the trigger.
I am not a fan of magnaflow products. That is pretty clear in this post. But I will be happy if the muffler last for a year. Then I can replace it with a SW one. Either way, I now have a reasonably priced cat-back that I can bolt-on and I know it will fit great. ZZP has to custom build the cat-back so I am sure it will be a week or two before it gets delivered. No biggie.
There are already a couple of clips of the ZZP 2.5" cat-back on Cobalts on this forum. I have been satisfied with the way they sound so far...
So after YEARS of experimenting with different exhaust systems I have put my faith in ZZP.
Thoughts? Comments?
So I have a little update on my car.
I have gone through many experiments with exhaust setups to find the best combo of cost, sound and performance.
GMPP manifold, ZZP 3" DP, Magnaflow 2.5" cat-back - It sounded great for about a year but like most Magnaflow products, the resonator and muffler wore out. It is a nice flowing setup for an M62 LSJ.
~Lesson Learned. Magnaflow products will wear out.
Bought first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, CTI 3" cat-back with Magnaflow products - It never really sounded good. It was loud but it was what I thought I needed for my first TVS setup. That is back when everyone said you HAD to have a 3" cat-back. It got me pulled over way too many times so it had to go.
~Lesson Learned. Run a cat. Magnaflow products still suck. A 3" cat-back is very loud. Very few ways around it.
Sold first TVS
CTI Header Combo, Cat-less, LNF cat-back - It was fine under idle and cruise but loud and raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF cat-back sounds like ass on a LSJ. I assumed it was the short LNF resonator giving me issues but I was wrong.
CTI Header Combo, Metal Spun Cat, SW 24" Smooth Tube as Resonator, LNF Muffler - It was a little louder under cruise and idle then the previous setup. But it would get raspy under the slightest load and it was very raspy under WOT.
~Lesson Learned. The LNF resonator was not the problem. The LNF muffler is the problem. I added almost $300 to the cat-back (Cat, SW Resonator) and it sounded worse then just the LNF resonator.
Ported Stock Manifold, Stock LSJ DP, Stock LSJ Cat-back. Sounds good. Very quite. Stock is not bad as I originally thought.
~Lesson Learned. Their are restrictions with a stock setup even on the M62. With my CTI 3" setup and 2.6" pulley on the M62 I would see max boost around 16psi. With this setup I would see over 17.5psi. The low to mid range was great but the engine was working hard at the higher RPMS and it would fall on its face past 5500rpms. It is way too restrictive.
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. This is better. There is some noticeable "performance" sound to the exhaust but it is not loud under any conditions. I am very happy.
~Lesson Learned. Free up the restrictions where the exhaust gases are the hottest which is closest to the head. That will give you the best bank for the buck. Max boost dropped to about 16.5psi. I would be happy to drive with this setup for the life of the car on a M62.
Bought Second TVS
ZZP LT Header, Cat'd with 2.5" outlet, Stock LSJ cat-back. Same as above. This is where I am at right now.
~Lesson Learned. There are more restrictions with this cat-back when paired with the TVS. On a 2.9" pulley with my first TVS and my CTI 3" setup I would see max boost right around 20.5psi. Now I will hit 22psi.
***Anyone who says that it is fine to run a TVS with a cat-back that is "smaller then stock" is blowing smoke up your ass. They are not giving you all the details of their setup and are trying to miss lead you into believe the GMPP cat-back does not flow better then the stock LSJ cat-back just because the GMPP is 2.25". But it goes way beyond that. I have talked about this enough so if you want more info, search some of my other recent posts.***
More information on my setup right now.
The outlet on the DP of the ZZP LT combo for a 2.5" cat-back is actually 2 3/8". The inlet to the resonator on the stock LSJ cat-back is ~ 2 1/8. Maybe even smaller. So the next restriction I need to address is the inlet to the resonator and the rest of the LSJ stock cat-back.
I know a few guys running 3" cat-backs that sounds pretty good. But I want a 2.5" cat-back. Getting pulled over sucks. The cops like my car. I don't want to give them any reason to turn on the Red and Blues behind me. I will not take any unnecessary risks. So for the last few months I have been trying to figure out how to build and a quite/affordable 2.5" cat-back.
I figured the best way to get the exhaust I wanted to was to build my own. So I need a resonator, 2.5" mandrel bent piping and a muffler. What to do...
Resonator
1. Anything Magnaflow is out. Along with anything that has any packing.
2. My experiment with the SW smooth tube was a complete failure. A stock 12" LNF resonator sounded better then the SW 24" one and a metal spun cat.
3. I have read a lot of good things about the Moroso spiral flow resonators. They are basic resonator with and exhaust auger insert. They are short and affordable. Trusted people on this forum swear by exhaust augers but they are hard to find in a 2.5" version. If someone knows of one, let me know!
4. The LNF resonator performed well. The inlet measures like 2.65". So enough for a 2.5" cat-back.
5. ZZP's new 3 chambered round resonator. Don't know much about it but it is big and long which is what you want in a resonator.
6. Vibrant Ultra Quite works on a LSJ. I have heard paired with a SW Turbo chambered muffler and it sounds great. Even in 3". But the case is big and need to be installed at an angle to fit in the LSJ exhaust tunnel.
Piping
1. Stock LSJ is 2.5" ID then goes down to 2.25" ID and gets a nice little crush bend. Not going to work for me.
2. CTI 2.5" over axle was actually my original idea that I gave *****. (I have not seen any royalties..) But at $95 it was a touch pricey for an arm length of tube.
3. MBES tubing kit. Almunized is $120 and SS is $195. Ehhh. That would be a last resort.
4. Stock LNF is 2.5" OD and mandrel bent from the resonator to the muffler. That would probably work well if I could find one.
5. Used 2.5" piping from an aftermarket cat-back. This would work great for the right price. But no one would want to sell an aftermarket cat-back minus the resonator and muffler. I mean, they would not want to sell it for what I want to pay.
Muffler
1. SW Turbo Chambered Muffler is the only muffler I have heard on multiple cars that sounds good on every car. And according to trusted sources, it has lasted the test of time.
2. Borla, Dynomax, Magnaflow, ect I have heard a lot of varying results. Some sound good. Some people think they sound good. Some just sounds like *ss.
3. Twin Loop Muffler? A guy on RLFs installed an ebay one on his car and the initial video sounds okay. But after almost two months he has not commented on how it is working out so I am a little skeptical. A good twin loop costs $400.
3. Stock LSJ muffler if all else fails.
So how to find the right combo...
I narrowed it down to two options.
1. $$$$$$$
$119 - ZZP Resonator
ZZPerformance - ZZP Stainless Resonator #ZZ-304RES
$195 - MBS SS Tubing kit
04-07 SATURN ION EXHAUST TUBING KIT
$30 x 2 SS V-bands
V Band Clamps
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding.
$591 + shipping on all those products from different companies.
2. $$$$$
$0 - LNF Resonator (I already have)
$65 - Moroso Spiral Flow Resonator
Amazon.com: Moroso 94050 High Flow Stainless Steel Muffler: Automotive
$120 - MBS Aluminized tubing kit
$17 x 2 V-band connections
$167 - Stainless Work Turbo Chambered Muffler
2.5" ID CENTER INLET/ 2.5" OD CENTER OUTLET 5"X9"
$50 - Welding
$436 + shipping from all these companies
Even the cheaper option was going to cost ~$500 which I think is a little high.
Some people call me cheap. I am not cheap. I know how to spend money the right way to make HP. Adding a cat-back is not going to give you a ton of HP. It will allow you to make more HP with good tuning. People have stuck a lot of money into LSJs and their cars are still slow. Be smart and spend your money in the right place.
After some more thought, I emailed ZZP about making a 2.5" cat-back for the RL. They said their new 2.5" 3 chambered Muffler will not fit on a RL. I really don't understand why but that is what they said. I asked about having them make me a custom one and they were hesitant at first. But the next day, they said they could make me a 2.5" cat-back with their new big *ss resonator and a Magnaflow muffler for $450. So I pulled the trigger.
I am not a fan of magnaflow products. That is pretty clear in this post. But I will be happy if the muffler last for a year. Then I can replace it with a SW one. Either way, I now have a reasonably priced cat-back that I can bolt-on and I know it will fit great. ZZP has to custom build the cat-back so I am sure it will be a week or two before it gets delivered. No biggie.
There are already a couple of clips of the ZZP 2.5" cat-back on Cobalts on this forum. I have been satisfied with the way they sound so far...
So after YEARS of experimenting with different exhaust systems I have put my faith in ZZP.
Thoughts? Comments?
I've gone through many (not as much as you though).
04-13-2012, 02:49 PM
#300
I have a moroso spiral flow and one or more of the augers broke inside and created a nasty rattle. I am running a catless 3in exhaust and I have read they do not like the heat and the pressure of a catless exhaust. I understand you are running catted 2.5 but I figured I would chime in since I have some experience with it. It did quiet it down nicely but it felt restrictive and dead on the low end until the augers broke lol it litterally didn't last a month though