Ecotec Has Unique Ignition System - Cobalt SS Network



2.2L L61 Performance Tech 16 valve 145 hp EcoTec with 155 lb-ft of torque
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:08 PM   #1
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Ecotec Has Unique Ignition System

This is very interesting if you are into how our enignes actually work.

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Originally Posted by INVESTIGATING GM'S COMPRESSION SENSE IGNITION by Jim Garrido
This combustion chamber detective uses ignition signatures to deduce engine phasing and cam position. We'll show you how it gathers the clues.

Several General Motors vehicles are equipped with a 2.2L engine called IiCOTEC. This four-cylinder, fourvalves-per-cylinder, all-aluminum power plant was first installed in some Saturn models, beginning with the 2000 L-series. Saturn VUE and ION models followed. It was the optional engine in the 2002 Pontiac Sunfire and Grand Am, Oldsmobile Alero and Chevrolet Cavalier and MaIibu, and standard equipment stalling in 2003. The ECOTEC is also used in the Saab 9.3.

The ECOTEC engine uses a speed density-based fuel injection system, along with a waste-spark electronic ignition system. The waste-spark ignition is part of a unique Compression Sense Ignition (CSI) system that allows the powertrain control module (PCM) to determine proper engine phasing (cam position) without the use of a separate camshaft position sensor mounted near a rotating engine member. This article will explain how the CSI system operates. We'll also document new misfire diagnostic techniques that are made possible by die system s unique design.

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Old 04-01-2006, 10:16 PM   #2
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That's pretty cool. It's not 2.2 specific, all Ecotecs have the same ignition system.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleycat58
That's pretty cool. It's not 2.2 specific, all Ecotecs have the same ignition system.
I will change the title.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:21 PM   #4
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I can see where you got that it sounded 2.2-specific because at first they were listing off the 2.2L applications, but then when it got down to the nitty gritty of it, they were talking about the Ecotec line of engines in general.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleycat58
I can see where you got that it sounded 2.2-specific because at first they were listing off the 2.2L applications, but then when it got down to the nitty gritty of it, they were talking about the Ecotec line of engines in general.
I have a 2.2L, so I guess I was just thinking of my engine when I first titled it.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red_wing_2121
I have a 2.2L, so I guess I was just thinking of my engine when I first titled it.
The only thing that tipped me off was mention of the Saab 9-3, which has iterations of the 2.0 motor, along with a 2.3L motor, but never to my knowledge used the 2.2. In fact I think the 2.3L was done away with in 2002 for the 9-3...either 2k6 or 2k7 they're introducing a bigger engine as well, 2.8 I believe.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:36 PM   #7
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The 2.4L ignition is some what different and better then 2.2--just an updated one I guess.
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Old 04-01-2006, 10:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avro206
The 2.4L ignition is some what different and better then 2.2--just an updated one I guess.
You can tell by the article though it's slightly oudated, hence why that wasn't included.
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Old 04-01-2006, 11:09 PM   #9
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Is there a simple way to sum that up for someone who lacks engine knowledge?
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Old 04-02-2006, 01:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin_k
Is there a simple way to sum that up for someone who lacks engine knowledge?
Yes indeed there is. On most cars there is a camshaft position sensor and a corresponding "device" on the cam to create a signal to tell the ECU what the valves are doing in relation to the crankshaft so it can detect what cylinder to put spark to properly. On the Ecotec there is no sensor. It is done through electrical feedback. There are sensors built into the IDI unit that take readings for cylinders 1 and 3 to detect which one has fired on it's compression stroke. It then matches the fuel injection up to the proper cylinder in the sequence.

Page 6-477 in the GM Service Manual, if you have access, describes the setup in detail in realtion to DTC P0340. Any other particulars you need let me know.
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Old 04-02-2006, 09:24 AM   #11
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Thanks for that summary. Helps me understand a lot better now.
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Old 04-02-2006, 12:57 PM   #12
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basically we have the same ignition system as every other car 03 and newer. Waste spark has been around for a while. Basically all it does is fire off an extra time on the exhaust stroke for emissions purposes. The ignition isn't anything special, every car on the market today with electronic ignition runs the timing off the cam sensor and crank sensor output signals.
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Old 04-02-2006, 02:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleycat58
That's pretty cool. It's not 2.2 specific, all Ecotecs have the same ignition system.
Actually, the 2.2 is the only engine in the ECOTEC family that uses "Compression Sense" the 2.0L and 2.4L varients both have a cam sensor for event cylinder identification.
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Old 04-02-2006, 02:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novajoe
basically we have the same ignition system as every other car 03 and newer. Waste spark has been around for a while. Basically all it does is fire off an extra time on the exhaust stroke for emissions purposes. The ignition isn't anything special, every car on the market today with electronic ignition runs the timing off the cam sensor and crank sensor output signals.
Wow man. Apparently you didn't read anything I typed before you responded. MOST cars have CMP and CKP sensors. The Ecotec family doesn't have a camshaft position sensor though. Try reading the RIGHT info before you give WRONG info please. Thanks.


BTW...This system is also why it makes installing a MSD ignition a little more involved.
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Old 04-02-2006, 02:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WopOnTour
Actually, the 2.2 is the only engine in the ECOTEC family that uses "Compression Sense" the 2.0L and 2.4L varients both have a cam sensor for event cylinder identification.
WopOnTour

I was gonna say we (LSJ) have a camshaft position sensor.... And we don't have wasted spark ignition systems.
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Old 04-02-2006, 03:28 PM   #16
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That is correct. The 2.2L is the only Ecotec that GM decided to **** with this way. They decided it wasn't good enough or some other BS and changed it back to a standard setup.
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Old 04-02-2006, 04:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypsy
Wow man. Apparently you didn't read anything I typed before you responded. MOST cars have CMP and CKP sensors. The Ecotec family doesn't have a camshaft position sensor though. Try reading the RIGHT info before you give WRONG info please. Thanks.


BTW...This system is also why it makes installing a MSD ignition a little more involved.
Whatever works. I don't always read an entire thread. Most of the time I'll just graze through for something interesting. Miss a lot of stuff that way. my bad.
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Old 04-02-2006, 04:51 PM   #18
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just wait until 1 morning when u go to crank your car. and the key wont turn in the ignition. that happened to me and they said that seems to be happening to the cobalts. had to get my car towed and left over night. the key just wouldnt turn and u can press on start o ask whats wrong. because of no battery power
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:22 AM   #19
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So I have a 2.4 With a L61 head

Quote:
Originally Posted by hypsy View Post
Yes indeed there is. On most cars there is a camshaft position sensor and a corresponding "device" on the cam to create a signal to tell the ECU what the valves are doing in relation to the crankshaft so it can detect what cylinder to put spark to properly. On the Ecotec there is no sensor. It is done through electrical feedback. There are sensors built into the IDI unit that take readings for cylinders 1 and 3 to detect which one has fired on it's compression stroke. It then matches the fuel injection up to the proper cylinder in the sequence.

Page 6-477 in the GM Service Manual, if you have access, describes the setup in detail in realtion to DTC P0340. Any other particulars you need let me know.
The problem I have is I'm running comp cams with no cam sensors. I've been told the only way to make it start normally without cranking on it for about 10 seconds is to go to a stand alone ECM (engine managing computer). Other then starting it seems to run ok but doesn't like to idle below like 1200 RPMs. Will this hurt the engine and is there anything I can do about it without buying s stand alone ecm?
thanks
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Old 03-18-2017, 11:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprsky View Post
The problem I have is I'm running comp cams with no cam sensors. I've been told the only way to make it start normally without cranking on it for about 10 seconds is to go to a stand alone ECM (engine managing computer). Other then starting it seems to run ok but doesn't like to idle below like 1200 RPMs. Will this hurt the engine and is there anything I can do about it without buying s stand alone ecm?
thanks
Switch to an l61 operating system on your ecu
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:39 PM   #21
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I could do that but....

The stock ECMs are linked to the VIN and if I just use a L61 ecm the other systems in the car like the gauges and radio won't work I believe?
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:35 AM   #22
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My car has two different vins and it runs fine. You can disable VATS with hptuners
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:58 PM   #23
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as long as the computers are compatable with each other you just need to do a security relearn, they can have non matching vins
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:10 AM   #24
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Ok

How can I do the security relearn?
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