soundjunky

iTrader: (4)

wow this turned into a total ranting/bashing thread...

since this is one big tanget thread already;

@ Blk08coupe, I was reading what you typed with as much consideration/leniance I could muster - untill I read this;
so you're saying that a GM vehicle with a drive train swap of sorts combining an old regular production transmission which GM started phasing out in the 1970's, and an engine which has never been regular production - makes a better car?

in my books some real "LS-" musclecars read something like this;


1970 Firebird Trans Am w/RAIV (RPO: LS1)
1970 LS1 = intended to be super duty dry sump engine; ended up being regular 'L67' 1970 RAIV; 400cid, 10.75:1 compression, 370hp




1973-1974 Firebird Formula/Trans Am w/SD455 (RPO: LS2)
1973 LS2 = 455cid, 8.25:1 compression, 310hp




1970-1972 Chevelle w/"396" (RPO: LS3)
1970 LS3 = 402cid, 10.25:1 compression, 300hp




1971-1972 Firebird Formula/Trans Am w/455HO (RPO: LS5)
1971 LS5 = 455cid, 8.25:1 compression, 335hp




1971-1972 GTO w/455HO (RPO: LS5)




1970-71 Chevelle w/LS6
1970 LS6 = 454cid, 11.25:1 compression, 450HP


(FYI: GM has for a long time re-used RPO codes - as well as allowing different divisions to use the same code, which was often a different thing all together)

IMHO, new cars are are nice, and with the passage of time all manufacturers seem to be getting on par with each other's quality ect - but real cars have carburetors, big V8's, are RWD, and have absolutely no inkling of electronics or ECM's...

this is coming fro ma guy who's first new car is a computer laiden GM compact with a turbocharged 4 banger...

Blk08coupe

Yes because my car (1986 Cutlass) is one of the good looking G-body cars of the era (imo) and I got it dirt cheap. Built an Olds 350 with an honest 320hp or so and realized that to attain my desired power level would cost a hell of a lot more using the weaker Olds V8 architecture. So I sold it and have since bought a LS1 long block that is getting transformed into a 383 and being backed with a TH400. GM quit making those transmissions because one, they hardly ever broke and two, they weren't needed very much besides heavy duty trucks and the like where the cars were much weaker power wise and were going to the 4spd TH700R4 and TH2004R. Today, they use the 4L60/65/70/80 4spd trannies. A 4L80 would be nice, but too expensive for my budget. A TH400 built to hold 1200hp or so is only $1500. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. As far as the whole Chevy Cruze thing goes, imo, it's a rebadged Daewoo that's been out since 2008. They don't even have real Ecotec engines in them. I will stay far, far away from those cars. If GM pulls their head outta their ass and puts a real GM drivetrain in it with some reasonable power, I may consider one. Until then, LNF or K20/24 hybrid for me.

soundjunky

iTrader: (4)

First (and on a positive note); That sounds like a fun car...
- but no one in their right mind would consider a 1986 Cutlass (as nice as they are) a musclecar;
call it a resto-mod, or hot rod - because there is nothing musclecar about it as it left the factory.... and if things are dumbed down to their most rudimentary levels, a general consensus about what defines a musclecar, is a vehicle as it left the factory (or could have left the factory)...

Second; There is NOTHING weak about the Oldsmobile architecture;
You do know that farmers had long used Oldsmobile v8's to run their equipment right? - ... if there was anything weak about the Oldsmobile V8 architecture, farmers surely wouldn't be able to run them reliably for days on end without a hiccup...

Third; Why did you bother building a 350 ~ when more power can be had from building an externally identical 455?

I wasn't stating in any way that a TH400 was a poor choice - built they're nearly bullet proof ~ I was moreover pointing out that you're knocking modern cars for being deemed inferior and warranting scoff on your part because of the way they're built - when in fact you were not even using OE parts on your percieved "musclecar";
You would have to be consciously ignorant to remain oblivious of the fact that all the manufacturers are becoming more and more comparable as far as quality/reliability is concerned - and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if the car was being designed in Istanbul - the car is built in the United States, by a company not only run in, but who's parent company is in the United States...


umm, you might want to pull your own head out of your corn-hole...
The Ecotec engine family is from Europe - or at least that's where the design and implementation began - GM powertrain a subsidiary of Opel has been behind the Ecotec engine family.
One of engines which power the Cruize (and Sonic), the 1.8L, is in fact the exact engine that has been offered in europe since 2005;
The 1.4L ecotec is to the best of my understanding a newer engine which has only been used for the American and German markets...
It's these larger displacement engines (the 2.2~2.4 engine family, from which the LSJ & LNF are derived) which are North American versions of the european engines...

If you want to complain about foreign engines in a domestic car, you might want to reach back a couple years, because the last truely domestic four cylinder engines that GM offered were the 2200 (pushord chevrolet engine) or the Quad4/Twin Cam engines... all the rest are some kind of joint international design, or taken from foreign markets all together..
The 1.8l Ecotec engine was (to the best of my knowledge) first used in the North American market in the Saturn Astra - which was in fact, little more than a rebadged Opel Astra.
Also, the engine that powers the Korean version of the Cruize, isn't even offered here - it's a 1.6L variant of an ecotec.

Blk08coupe

I built the Olds 350 because it was the only Olds V8 I could find for a reasonable price down here. They are not as strong as a 4 bolt sbc or nearly as strong as a 4.8/5.3/5.7/6.0 type LSx engine. An Olds 455 can make over 550hp, but it costs an arm and a leg to build one. The only Olds V8 that you can build that's damn near bullet proof, is a Olds DX diesel converted to gas use. I've done my research and you can't make as much power as cheaply as you can with LSx engines. I consider my car a muscle car because it had a v8, rwd from the factory. If Oldsmobile were still around and they had a performance oriented type car, it would have a LSx engine under the hood guaranteed. From my era, the G-body cars, F-body cars and Fox body Mustangs were the "muscle car" era cars for me. Just like today is the best time to have a performance type car with today's engine tech.

cranemaster

My car has over 12 service records for the 13 or so months I've owned it, it's going in for service tomorrow.


Service abs
Service esc
Service stability
Service airbag


4 codes... All at the same time, it's a death trap and il never buy gm again...


Fun as hell tho!!!

soundjunky

iTrader: (4)

^^^ first three are tied together ~ actually the 4th might also be a part of the same issue...

death trap? ~ really?

is there a little too much estrogen running through your system that's turning you into a drama queen or something?

JBThrasher22

Review: 2011 Chevrolet Cruze – Now With Comments! | The Truth About Cars

2011 Chevrolet Cruze - First Drive Review - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

From the source since you don't like Wiki

Chevrolet Takes Center Stage in Korea

08SSTCRD

Great place for legit information, jouralists and wikipedia

GIVE IT UP, you have been proven wrong with facts. Stop posting bullshit reviews and opinions from people who write magazine articles

emiller

GM makes no secrets about having different regions lead development for different types of vehicles. Want a rwd car? Go to Australia and holden where they have been doing it for decades. Want a small car go to Korea and Germany to GM Korea and opel because its what they have been doing forever. Big trucks from the us. Smaller ones from Brazil.

It's a global world and its not practical for every market to design and build entire vehicles. Toyota and maybe Hyundai/KIA are probably the exceptions where almost all engineering is still done in the home country.

JBThrasher22

GM themselves said that they let Korea department take the lead on the Cruze. Notice how I posted straight from GM's news website. Stop being a nutswinger and trying to bullshit people. I showed you were the wikipedia article comes from. But wait your a mechanic so you know everything. God damn idiot nutswingers geez.

"GM Daewoo played a lead role in the design, engineering and manufacturing of the Chevrolet Cruze global compact sedan, the new Chevrolet Spark global mini-car, and the new Chevrolet Aveo global small car." -GM

That is straight from the GM press release not some magazine nor article writer. Stop being close minded but what can I say I see a lot of that on this site.

08SSTCRD

Wow, you are just a lost cause.

How else can we say this - its a GLOBAL car. You can't seem to process that. It was designed by engineers from many different parts of the world, with much of the engineering and design philosophy coming from GM Europe and GM North America. Even the 6 speed manual transmission is built in AUSTRIA. Same with the 5 speed thats used in the Sonic and Cruze and coupled to the 1.8L. But according to you, its Korean. Then again, you probably think Austria is in Korea

Why are you so foolish and close minded?? You post ONE sentence from a GM press release, and that some how sums up the entire car?? Give it up man, you look pathetic just grasping at straws and posting bullshit Wikipedia links.

So to sum it up, you think that the Chevy Cruze, which is build by General Motors of Detroit, MI, has a 1.4L Ecotec Turbo Engine built in Flint, MI, a 6 speed manual built in Aspern, Austria, a 6 speed automatic built in Toledo, OH, a watts link rear suspension sourced from the Opel Astra (thats European, since you probably don't know) and a vehicle assembly location of Lordstown, Ohio, is somehow a Daewoo Korean import.

There are no words that could possibly explain your stupidity and ignorance.

JBThrasher22

No your ignorance is idiotic. It has been proven over and over that the DESIGN WAS MADE IN KOREA. The parts were produced globally but the DESIGN D E S I G N DDDDDDEEEESSSIIIGGGGNNNN was Korean god are you that ******* dull you don't understand what is being said Jesus. Just because a part was used does not mean that it wasn't designed somewhere else.

There are Toyotas made in America but are they American? No God you my friend are the lost cause. I'm done with this you won't get it I can't fend off the nutswinging in this thread just keep posting your misinformed information just like the rest of the crap posted on css.net. Hearsay ftmfw I guess.

emiller

Not all the parts were designed in korea though. Just the platform.