Cobalt (engine Options) 300 Hp
07-16-2006, 03:59 AM
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Cobalt (engine Options) 300 Hp
Flashback.
Year: 1990
Car: Cavalier 4 Dr
Engine: 4 cyl
****OPTION: 3.1L V6 MultiPortFI
****HP: 140
So this engine was an option at the time. I remember it cost my bro $2,000 but he was happy to pay given the increase in power over the 4 banger!
So I ask - WTF is wrong with all these car makers???? You want to sell a SS S/C for another 3-4K over the base and SS cobalt - fine. But why can't they offer us more options on engines once we choose the S/C?!?!? They used to!
For instance, the stage 1/2 kits. Why have a stupid kit. Build a 2.4L S/C version of the 2.0L that's in there now and charge for it. I would have GLADLY paid an option price of 3K on top of what I did for the SS S/C with an engine with 300 HP plus. After all, when people buy a affordable performance car it's 90% engine/power...imo
Wouldn't it be nice to add an option for an engine that is say a 2.4L S/C even if it cost like 3K!!! Even if people didn't turn out in droves - I am sure there is no shortage of people looking for a lot of power and don't care for what they buy to get it so long as it's affordable to begin with- Isn't that's why the Mustang is doing so well now??? Cheap power!!! Besides, a Cobalt with 300-350 HP plus??? Talk about a sleeper car!
[Today] speed is a question of money...How fast do you want to go? (Mad Max).
I paid 26K Canadian $ for my cobalt. If I could have tacked on another 3-4K for a 275-325HP engine vs. the 205 now.....I would have GLADLY paid....
I mentioned to the dealer (last week when picking up my new Cobalt) that I was going to have the Stage 2 kit in to boost the HP almost right away.
He looked at me in disbelief and said..."But it already has 205HP?!? It's comes with more than enought power now!"
My reply was..."If every 50HP cost me 1K (as it does with the kit), I would have ordered the car with 450HP! THE MORE POWER THE BETTER!!"
I'll admit working on the engine/performance aspects of the engine can be fun. But I suspect people are spending so much more money to generate more power from the stock engine than they would had the auto maker just given us the option of paying for an engine that is larger, more powerful and to some extent benefits from the economies of scale only realized when building 1000s of engines/parts.
So here's to GM following Fords lead and dropping a S/C in a 2.4L so that they have an affordable car that will smoke a mustang not to mention all the other Civics out there!
Year: 1990
Car: Cavalier 4 Dr
Engine: 4 cyl
****OPTION: 3.1L V6 MultiPortFI
****HP: 140
So this engine was an option at the time. I remember it cost my bro $2,000 but he was happy to pay given the increase in power over the 4 banger!
So I ask - WTF is wrong with all these car makers???? You want to sell a SS S/C for another 3-4K over the base and SS cobalt - fine. But why can't they offer us more options on engines once we choose the S/C?!?!? They used to!
For instance, the stage 1/2 kits. Why have a stupid kit. Build a 2.4L S/C version of the 2.0L that's in there now and charge for it. I would have GLADLY paid an option price of 3K on top of what I did for the SS S/C with an engine with 300 HP plus. After all, when people buy a affordable performance car it's 90% engine/power...imo
Wouldn't it be nice to add an option for an engine that is say a 2.4L S/C even if it cost like 3K!!! Even if people didn't turn out in droves - I am sure there is no shortage of people looking for a lot of power and don't care for what they buy to get it so long as it's affordable to begin with- Isn't that's why the Mustang is doing so well now??? Cheap power!!! Besides, a Cobalt with 300-350 HP plus??? Talk about a sleeper car!
[Today] speed is a question of money...How fast do you want to go? (Mad Max).
I paid 26K Canadian $ for my cobalt. If I could have tacked on another 3-4K for a 275-325HP engine vs. the 205 now.....I would have GLADLY paid....
I mentioned to the dealer (last week when picking up my new Cobalt) that I was going to have the Stage 2 kit in to boost the HP almost right away.
He looked at me in disbelief and said..."But it already has 205HP?!? It's comes with more than enought power now!"
My reply was..."If every 50HP cost me 1K (as it does with the kit), I would have ordered the car with 450HP! THE MORE POWER THE BETTER!!"
I'll admit working on the engine/performance aspects of the engine can be fun. But I suspect people are spending so much more money to generate more power from the stock engine than they would had the auto maker just given us the option of paying for an engine that is larger, more powerful and to some extent benefits from the economies of scale only realized when building 1000s of engines/parts.
So here's to GM following Fords lead and dropping a S/C in a 2.4L so that they have an affordable car that will smoke a mustang not to mention all the other Civics out there!
07-16-2006, 09:51 AM
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I'm just glad we have factory kits that have been tested by GM, give substantial additional horsepower, are low cost, and don't void the warranty.
I suspect that it is much easier to offer performance kits than it is to certify different engines for production. Don't forget the EPA, CAFE standards etc.
I suspect that it is much easier to offer performance kits than it is to certify different engines for production. Don't forget the EPA, CAFE standards etc.
07-16-2006, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Enuffboost
I mentioned to the dealer (last week when picking up my new Cobalt) that I was going to have the Stage 2 kit in to boost the HP almost right away.
07-16-2006, 10:21 AM
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i dont see what other options they offered your brother. seems like they gave him the choice of different engine....pretty much exactly what you are saying they do now.
07-16-2006, 02:46 PM
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If you've seen any dyno sheets of these cars... they're not 205HP... they're more in the neighborhood of 220 to the wheels. If you want more power.... get the stage kits.
07-16-2006, 02:55 PM
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A 300Hp Cobalt with factory warranty would cost more than a few thousand dollars.
The biggest problem with our cars is getting the power we do have to the ground.
The stage kits and other bolt on items will get you enough power. It also seems that a selected few on the board are having a hard time keeping their clutches in the current stock set up. A 300hp Cobalt would be a GM warranty nightmare.
Just my .02 .
The biggest problem with our cars is getting the power we do have to the ground.
The stage kits and other bolt on items will get you enough power. It also seems that a selected few on the board are having a hard time keeping their clutches in the current stock set up. A 300hp Cobalt would be a GM warranty nightmare.
Just my .02 .
07-16-2006, 03:55 PM
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Yeah - I guess the clutch thing is a problem...
I am freaked out now because I keeping seeing posts about clutch slipping etc..
On that note, I have the limited slip differential. I learned on the demo/floor model (also equipped with the l/s diff that it is pretty much useless when it comes to hooking up. I managed to spin one of the wheels while driving forward in a straight line rather easily and for quite some time!!!!!
I am freaked out now because I keeping seeing posts about clutch slipping etc..
On that note, I have the limited slip differential. I learned on the demo/floor model (also equipped with the l/s diff that it is pretty much useless when it comes to hooking up. I managed to spin one of the wheels while driving forward in a straight line rather easily and for quite some time!!!!!
07-16-2006, 04:38 PM
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The Limited Slip is pretty much a worthless option for the SS/SC unless you want the Recaros.
The non-LSD cars take off just as good and both will spinn one tire in tight turns since the front suspension unloads.
As for more engine choices why? If you want a 2.2 get a LS or LT, if you want a 2.4 VVT get a SS and if you want a 2.0 S/C buy the SS/SC.
The non-LSD cars take off just as good and both will spinn one tire in tight turns since the front suspension unloads.
As for more engine choices why? If you want a 2.2 get a LS or LT, if you want a 2.4 VVT get a SS and if you want a 2.0 S/C buy the SS/SC.
07-16-2006, 04:44 PM
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Things that would need to be changed:
Bigger Engine, or Bigger Super Charger
Better Axles
Better Motor Mounts
Better Tranmission Mounts
Better Transmission
Better Clutch
Better Rods, Pistons and Crankshaft
The price adds up big time after a while, and just because you want it, doesnt mean there wll be much of a demand for a car like this. Also, this car would no longer be affordable and/or reasonable. Not many people are going to buy a FWD car that is that light and powerful. Also, insurance would go thru the roof.
Bigger Engine, or Bigger Super Charger
Better Axles
Better Motor Mounts
Better Tranmission Mounts
Better Transmission
Better Clutch
Better Rods, Pistons and Crankshaft
The price adds up big time after a while, and just because you want it, doesnt mean there wll be much of a demand for a car like this. Also, this car would no longer be affordable and/or reasonable. Not many people are going to buy a FWD car that is that light and powerful. Also, insurance would go thru the roof.
07-16-2006, 06:21 PM
#11
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The problem with your theory is that aren't going to get 300hp with only 3k dollars. At 300hp this car is going to need a lot of work as some have already stated. The clutch, fuel system, axels, and all of that will be at it's limits at 300hp.
Chevy did the SS/SC right. Use the smaller, cheaper, tuner friendly, time tested engine for the performance version. The 2.0 SC is exactly what fits the tuner market. I have no doubts the 2.4 is capable of making big numbers but the 2.0 is more of a proven performer at this point.
As for the LSD, I felt it was kind of a waste. I can launch mine pretty good without it. It takes a little more finess as a driver but it's not a kiss of death for the car. LSD or not a FWD car with any real hp is going to be a tough launch. A good driver without an LSD will beat an ok driver with an LSD everytime.
Chevy did the SS/SC right. Use the smaller, cheaper, tuner friendly, time tested engine for the performance version. The 2.0 SC is exactly what fits the tuner market. I have no doubts the 2.4 is capable of making big numbers but the 2.0 is more of a proven performer at this point.
As for the LSD, I felt it was kind of a waste. I can launch mine pretty good without it. It takes a little more finess as a driver but it's not a kiss of death for the car. LSD or not a FWD car with any real hp is going to be a tough launch. A good driver without an LSD will beat an ok driver with an LSD everytime.
07-16-2006, 06:42 PM
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LSD no matter the driver will have no effect on straight line performance.
The tolerance in HP differences will have more of an effect than the LSD.
The same situations where the Non-LSD SS/SC will spin one tire will have the same outcome the in the LSD equipped SS/SC. For the same reasons I listed in my previous post.
In a RWD application the differences in much more obvious LSD vs Open Diff.
The tolerance in HP differences will have more of an effect than the LSD.
The same situations where the Non-LSD SS/SC will spin one tire will have the same outcome the in the LSD equipped SS/SC. For the same reasons I listed in my previous post.
In a RWD application the differences in much more obvious LSD vs Open Diff.
07-16-2006, 07:33 PM
#13
LSX RWD S/C conversion
iTrader: (2)
Originally Posted by codyss
LSD no matter the driver will have no effect on straight line performance.
The tolerance in HP differences will have more of an effect than the LSD.
The same situations where the Non-LSD SS/SC will spin one tire will have the same outcome the in the LSD equipped SS/SC. For the same reasons I listed in my previous post.
In a RWD application the differences in much more obvious LSD vs Open Diff.
The tolerance in HP differences will have more of an effect than the LSD.
The same situations where the Non-LSD SS/SC will spin one tire will have the same outcome the in the LSD equipped SS/SC. For the same reasons I listed in my previous post.
In a RWD application the differences in much more obvious LSD vs Open Diff.
I include both a web link and the actual write up on that page that states the opposite of your opinion.
http://www.quaifeamerica.com/
Originally Posted by Quaife
The Quaife torque biasing differential enables your car to accelerate quicker and corner faster. How?
By getting the power to the ground!
The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With an ordinary open differential, standard on most cars, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheelspin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance). The Quaife, however, does just the opposite. It senses which wheel has the better grip, and biases the power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly, and without ever completely removing power from the other wheel.
In drag-race style, straight-line acceleration runs, this results in a close to ideal 50/50 power split to both drive wheels, resulting in essentially twice the grip of an ordinary differential (they don't call open diffs "peglegs" for nothing).
In cornering, while accelerating out of a turn, the Quaife biases power to the outside wheel, reducing inside-wheel spin. This allows the driver to begin accelerating earlier, exiting the corner at a higher speed.
The Quaife also controls loss of traction when the front wheels are on slippery surfaces such as ice and snow or mud, providing the appropriate biased traction needed to overcome these adverse conditions. The Quaife Differential provides constant and infinitely variable drive. Power is transferred automatically without the use of normal friction pads or plates seen in other limited-slip designs.
The Quaife's unique design offers maximum traction, improves handling and steering, and puts the power where it is needed most. A definite advantage whether on the track or on the street.
The Quaife is extremely strong and durable and since the Quaife is gear operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly replacement.
The Quaife is great for street driving or racing. Racers don't have to put up with locking mechanisms or spools that created unwanted understeer under power, or in the case of front-drive cars, even tear the steering wheel out of their hands when cornering. Because it behaves like an open differential during ordinary driving, street drivers will have trouble telling it's there until pushing the car's limits.
The Quaife has been proven in everything from SCCA Rally to Formula 1. It provides autocrossers with such an advantage, it has become "required" equipment for a winning effort.
More and more auto manufacturers are specifying the Quaife ATB Differential as original equipment in their high performance models - for good reason - it works!
The Quaife ATB Differential comes with something else other's don't have:
a Limited Lifetime Warranty. This warranty applies even when raced ! >details
By getting the power to the ground!
The Quaife Differential powers both drive wheels under nearly all conditions, instead of just one. With an ordinary open differential, standard on most cars, a lot of precious power is wasted during wheelspin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip (along the path of least resistance). The Quaife, however, does just the opposite. It senses which wheel has the better grip, and biases the power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly, and without ever completely removing power from the other wheel.
In drag-race style, straight-line acceleration runs, this results in a close to ideal 50/50 power split to both drive wheels, resulting in essentially twice the grip of an ordinary differential (they don't call open diffs "peglegs" for nothing).
In cornering, while accelerating out of a turn, the Quaife biases power to the outside wheel, reducing inside-wheel spin. This allows the driver to begin accelerating earlier, exiting the corner at a higher speed.
The Quaife also controls loss of traction when the front wheels are on slippery surfaces such as ice and snow or mud, providing the appropriate biased traction needed to overcome these adverse conditions. The Quaife Differential provides constant and infinitely variable drive. Power is transferred automatically without the use of normal friction pads or plates seen in other limited-slip designs.
The Quaife's unique design offers maximum traction, improves handling and steering, and puts the power where it is needed most. A definite advantage whether on the track or on the street.
The Quaife is extremely strong and durable and since the Quaife is gear operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly replacement.
The Quaife is great for street driving or racing. Racers don't have to put up with locking mechanisms or spools that created unwanted understeer under power, or in the case of front-drive cars, even tear the steering wheel out of their hands when cornering. Because it behaves like an open differential during ordinary driving, street drivers will have trouble telling it's there until pushing the car's limits.
The Quaife has been proven in everything from SCCA Rally to Formula 1. It provides autocrossers with such an advantage, it has become "required" equipment for a winning effort.
More and more auto manufacturers are specifying the Quaife ATB Differential as original equipment in their high performance models - for good reason - it works!
The Quaife ATB Differential comes with something else other's don't have:
a Limited Lifetime Warranty. This warranty applies even when raced ! >details
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