schamsy

I remember about 2 months ago I made a thread about this and everyone said FAIL FAIL FAIL... haha awesome to see the setup in action. Can't wait for the results.

Tennpenn83

no, no you're not

agreed. it's fact. i think that for the lack of room that gm had in the design of this engine, it's an adequate design. could it have been more efficient? hell yeah, but it would probably have cost way more in r&d $. dual-brick style like on the zr1 costs a pretty penny

lol... the idea is to prevent the coolant from getting hot... i.e. heat exchanger/dual-pass.

you're correct, but adding things like dual-pass opt b and another heat exchanger minimizes those losses

freakta

iTrader: (1)

the problem i see in the stock setup is that theengine i have will flow way more than it can handle. instead of making a single pass and adding coolant tanks and heat exchangers to a system that is not a good design to begin with. i opened everything up, let the air go through everything smoothly and the end result is less bunched up hot air that has too many restrictions as it is, to something that air will flow through alot easier and will create less heat just for that reason. and also will flow alot better with the tvs and other mods

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

yup very true... just saying the way they cool is great and effective but if by chance they get heak soaked .. GOOD LUCK lol

damien

iTrader: (3)

Freak, if you need the pics uploaded you can send them my way again.

2K5SS/SC?

Yes, if there is a way to cool the coolant in the air to water setup sufficiently it will be far superior to ambient temps passing through and air to air setup. An ice chilled or cryo chilled setup could significantly do so, however we still have the issue of the intake manifold being very restrictive in its flow capabilities. Cramming air into a spot where it can not go any where causes turbulance which in return causes a lot of excess heat. This heat will kill power, which will even overcome your coolant mods at a certain point. Thus, a properly designed intake manifold that will flow far superior to the stock one even with a front mount air to air and will be way better. Heck, if you were hell bent you could use an intercooler like the vortech superchargers have to reduce pipe length and keep the air to water setup in conjunction with the better intake manifold.

With that said, you might want to watch out who you call a ******* noob to. I have a fully built, self fabricated, and self assembled air-to-air intercooled turbo Integra sitting in the garage right next to my Cobalt which was a fore runner for testing the Lysholm 1200AX twinscrew on it amongst a lot of other mods way before most on here tried anything original or the TVS was even thought of. I do all my own work and tuning, and have a lot of time under the hoods of some proven fast cars, and have done my part to contribute to the Cobalt community amongst others.

Lastly, lets see what the OP can do with this setup since it's and original design and a step foward in innovation to something possibly better than what is available now.

boosthard05

Can someone explain exactly how this works? i can't really see how it's setup with the pictures...

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

like 2k5 ss/sc said you could easily take out the air to air in place for a water to air like zzp did for the 2.4 turbo setup .. really it's getting a new intake manifold / modding the stock manifold to work with piping then finding the best setup .. it could be CYRO water to air or what ever have you or an air to air with custom FMIC sprayer no one knows yet but the stock manifold gutted is a good first step

slowswap

You can build and fabricate anything you want, that doesn't mean you posses knowledge in certain areas of a build. The point that you stated hot coolant flows into the intake manifold which kills cooling. Most people know that the heat exchanger does a sufficient enough job removing heat from the coolant. So infact the coolant flowing back into the intercooler is in fact cooled and not heated. Then why do the IAT's increase? The main cause being the air so hot the water has to take on the extra heat but doesn't stay long enough in the small intercooler they provide in the factory manifold to remove all of the excess heat.

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

Because the Intake Manifold is not an issue with the M62. And a company has address this issue for larger power adders.

This is probably true.

The stock IM manifold for the LSJ is a great design. To get it to work better with a TVS or Tubro you should get the ports to the laminova cores ported. OTTP can help you out with that.

The water/air setup in the LSJ IM is far more efficient then an air to air setup. Superchargers create more heat then turbos. So turbos don't need as efficient cooling systems.

slowswap

With the heat that blowers supply, I don't know how well this air to air will work out. Long term testing will prove that.

leviticus88

Porting the laminovas will reduce cooling ability and increase air flow. It's a trade off.

The laminovas need to go and a very large water to air brick needs to be added, along with an intake plenum and equal length runners...

Porting the stock manifold is just not enough for fully pushed tvs build...

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

Nope. According to the company that makes the Laminova cores the ports to the cores should be 18mm wide for maximum cooling efficiency. The ports in the Stock LSJ IM are between 12-14mm.

There is room from improvement with larger ports.

I actually ran a ported IM for a few weeks. My IAT2s were lower and climbed slower during a WOT run.

Nope, Nope, would be nice but too expensive.

Nope.

The ports need to be just large enough to flow the amount of CFM from the TVS. Basically all four inlet ports for the laminova cores combined need to be the same size as the outlet of the TVS.



There is plenty of room in the stock IM to accomplish this.

Turbo guys need to stop trying to apply their knowledge to superchagers...

These pipes should be at least 4". The air to air Intercooler should have a larger inlet and outlet. Ideally you would want them the same size as the TVS outlet. You are choking the TVS within the first few inches.

What is the called when the boost backs up and re-enters the supercharger? That is probably happening to this car.

For all the turbo guys...

This is like installing 2" charged air pipes on a turbo with a 3" outlet.

freakta

iTrader: (1)

4in would be nice but not needed. if you all think the stock setup will run this fine then these pipes and that intercooler will be perfectly fine even overkill.

but like i said we will see this week. the tuner i use cant do anything for a few weeks so im gonna go to another guy hopefully by the end of the week

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

i can guarantee the IM does not have 25in.˛ of area at its narrowest points, nor does the TVS outlet. 4" diameter is definitely overkill, and would just hurt response time.

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

I doubt you'll ever say anything that isn't negative.

Freakta. You stopped txting me after I said I got off work lol. How's it looking?

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

You are not running a turbo.

I bet you could fit a 3" round pipe in the outlet of the TVS no problem. And there will be plenty of space all the way around. Idk. You guys can think what you want. I'll measure the outlet on my TVS this week and report back to this thread. I am interested to see how big the ports in the stock IM need to be opened up to match the outlet of the harrop.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

response time would still be affected dude. Turbo spool clearly isnt an issue, but there is more area between the compressor and the head, and that area must fill with pressure. If there is only 1L of volume between the blower and the head, then atmospheric pressure will be reached with 1 rev of the blower, and 15psi will be reached with a second revolution of the blower. However, if the area between the blower and the head is 15L, then the blower must rev 15 times before you even reach atmospheric. Keep in mind, air is being ingested into the engine with every rev of the blower, so it will take more than 1rev/liter to fill the charge piping area. Of course the blower is spinning ridiculously fast, but regardless, response time will decrease by increasing the volume between the compressor and the head.

as for piping size, 3" is a lot more practical. That's almost half the volume as using a 4"

2K5SS/SC?

It is very obvious that the coolant after the heat exchanger is cooler than before it/right out of the intake manifold. I said "hot coolant" because the stock heat exchanger even in conjunction with the dual pass mod is not sufficient to even properly cool down even a 2.8" pulley on the stock blower after back to back pulls. Datalogging with HPTuners will make this very evident when you do so as I have many times. Since the "cooled and not heated" coolant is not cool enough i.e. "hot", that would be the reason why I have been running methanol injection for about 2 years now to directly cool down the part that causes the heat. Back to back pulls datalogged without heat soak even with my 2.6" pulley and twinscrew when I had it. The supercharger was barely warm to the touch in fact. With this said, I think I understand the cooling effects and how the Cobalt's aftercooler system works a bit better than you give me credit for. Not to mention the fact that if the stock one wasn't wedged between the radiator and A/C condensor, I bet it would work even better, or you could get a front mounted one.

You still haven't even begun to get into how restrictive the stock intake manifold is, and its direct contribution to the reason why this whole project was started. Nevermind the small exhaust ports on the head that will back up the airflow even further down the road. You can only cram so much air into a place before it becomes counterproductive. We can continue this pissing contest if you want, but I am very familiar with this car, its attributes, and how to properly setup/tune it.

I am done with my inputs on this as it's distracting and infringing on the OP's main purpose of the thread. I will be checking back however to see how this all work out, and I wish the OP the best of luck with it.

07MetallicSC

iTrader: (16)

whos tuning your car, fred?

06black

what a **** show.

novel idea, massively nasty execution.

take the flow rate @ the PR you want to run and match that up with pipe sizing, my initial numbers come out to about ~1.68in of cross section with the SC at max eff% flow/pr.

this is not a turbo, thus its flow rate is no where in that neighborhood. no need for 2.5in piping, so dropping pipe size will help control the MUCH larger PD your getting across that rats nest of pipe and couplers.

the internal flow area of your system is HUGE, 7* of bend = 1ft

its times like these you need to look at the well done street-minded turbo set ups of the world, notice how short and direct they run the charge pipe, notice how the IC is just the size needed for the flow rate.

things like this will take this idea from its current disaster and turn it into something worthwhile.

Maxim_X

Have you ever seen a turbo with a 3 inch outlet? You cant even begin to compare the amount of air flow between outlet sizes of a turbo and an SC.

Not only are the 2.5 in pipes sufficient but I bet they are over kill.

freakta

iTrader: (1)

its either gonna be fred at smg, or dentsport.

and i know the pipes are not perfect. they arent meant to be. as soon as i know the system works ill be getting custom pipes solid all the way around made. the intercooler is fine. its wide and flows great. all i can say is wait and see.

but please dont stop posting, i love seeing and learning as much as possible

slowswap

I'm predicting IAT2's in the 110+ range on back to back pulls.

Maxim_X

Does dentsport tune with HPT?