Project Super SAAB (SWAP)
02-26-2012, 07:51 PM
#1
Project Super SAAB (SWAP)
I had blown my LSJ about two month's ago. Decided to look into a few things.
I decided to purchase a Saab 9-3 motor.
To be exact it's a B207R
Saab motor $650+tax(34k miles) //// LSJ $1,650+Tax(106k miles)
Which is a better deal^ LOL
I have already spent about $1,400 getting this project ready.
$700 Motor Itself
$300 ZZP Parts
$400 Crate Engine Depot Parts
Now, a Saab 9-3 B207R is the exact same block as our LSJ's. There are completely different sensors though. So I'll be swapping all sensors and matching up all pully's, ect to make sure it goes flawless.
I will be running 80's on a 3.0(street) 2.7(Race) with E85 as my choice of fuel(Minnesota loves this stuff).
From what I have read, the only difference in the head on these motor's besides sensors are the exhaust cams are a tad more aggressive. Yay! free exhaust cam
There has been one other person I know of to do this, and I'm grabbing as much info off him as I can.
I will be creating a whole thread on the "Super SAAB Swap Project"
This is all going into my 2006 Cobalt SS/SC. I shall make video's and have plenty of pictures.
Wish me Luck,
Bratboy90
New Motor:
*MY INSTALL IS RUNNING AND GREAT*
If you do the swap you'll need:
TOOLS!!! A FRIEND!!!
After doing the Engine and trans removal from above. I recommend dropping the whole frame from below if possible. GM recommends this too. It will be a whole lot easier to get trans mounts on and get engine aligned right being able to do it outside of an engine bay rather than inside.
Removal of your motor should be slow. Label all sensors/hoses you unplug with Letters or #'s on both pieces so you know which matches to while when you re-install. This would have saved me a day's work for adding probably 1 hr to taking the motor out. Of course some hoses/wires are self explanatory but it gets confusing when its all unplugged and just looks like a pile of wires.
And while you do this, just replace every single seal you can on your trans/motor because why the **** not.
1. B207R Motor with Manual trans flywheel 8 Bolt not 6 Bolt flywheel.
2. Swap to LSJ flywheel. (Consider a new flywheel and upgraded clutch, like I did. If you do, make sure you replace you Throw Out Bearing and Clutch Pipe even if you dont upgrade the clutch. Might as well while you trans is out.)
3. Swap Harmonic Balancer (Stock 9-3 has 1 less rib. This will shred the belt fast.)
4. Swap Oil Pan to LSJ (Make sure your oil pan is hot tanked to remove any melt shards if you blew a piston)
5. Drill & Tap out the Intake Manifold bolt holes to the correct size for and LSJ intake mani. (Sorry forgot the correct size)
6. You'll need to shave down a piece that comes into contact with the tensioner pulley. Same thing as all 2.2/2.4 people who go SC have to do. Little nub of metal from the casting of the block pushes against it. Just grind this down to about 1/2 its original size.
7. Swap ALL SENSORS over from the LSJ to the 9-3 motor (99% of the Saab sensors look the same, however operate differently and may throw codes.)
8. Swap all coolant pipes and pieces as the Saab was a turbo set-up and had different cooling hosing.
9. DO NOT USE THE SAAB's COIL PACKS!!!! They are different!!! I used my LSJ's Spark plugs and I don't think their causing any issues. Recommened is BKR6EGP. I used BKR6E Coppers. I also went a step colder since I'm at about 270whp on E85.
10. Make sure you use your LSJ's fuel rail, the Saabs is very different. However, you may keep the Saab's Oil Cooler, it is no different from ours. And you may keep the water pump. While it is different, it won't create any cooling issues. DO MAKE SURE YOU SWAP the cam sensors. You will need to get it relearned at GM or from a friend with a relearn tool.
11. Once everything is installed and ready make sure you put all proper fluids in it.
Now, I went straight to 80's and E85. SO I have to have my tuner on hand for it's start-up. If you just swap the motor, you "SHOULD" be able to just have it all swapped and fire it up no problem. But I have to proof for this theory. The cams in the saab are different, but not much.
Enjoy. You may contact me if needed with questions. But in short I did the swap and the car is the exact same as before other than I've gained a ton of power from E85 and a 3.0 pulley.
*NOTE* I could be missing a few things, so I'll try to add if I remember or as people ask me more questions.
I decided to purchase a Saab 9-3 motor.
To be exact it's a B207R
Saab motor $650+tax(34k miles) //// LSJ $1,650+Tax(106k miles)
Which is a better deal^ LOL
I have already spent about $1,400 getting this project ready.
$700 Motor Itself
$300 ZZP Parts
$400 Crate Engine Depot Parts
Now, a Saab 9-3 B207R is the exact same block as our LSJ's. There are completely different sensors though. So I'll be swapping all sensors and matching up all pully's, ect to make sure it goes flawless.
I will be running 80's on a 3.0(street) 2.7(Race) with E85 as my choice of fuel(Minnesota loves this stuff).
From what I have read, the only difference in the head on these motor's besides sensors are the exhaust cams are a tad more aggressive. Yay! free exhaust cam
There has been one other person I know of to do this, and I'm grabbing as much info off him as I can.
I will be creating a whole thread on the "Super SAAB Swap Project"
This is all going into my 2006 Cobalt SS/SC. I shall make video's and have plenty of pictures.
Wish me Luck,
Bratboy90
New Motor:
*MY INSTALL IS RUNNING AND GREAT*
If you do the swap you'll need:
TOOLS!!! A FRIEND!!!
After doing the Engine and trans removal from above. I recommend dropping the whole frame from below if possible. GM recommends this too. It will be a whole lot easier to get trans mounts on and get engine aligned right being able to do it outside of an engine bay rather than inside.
Removal of your motor should be slow. Label all sensors/hoses you unplug with Letters or #'s on both pieces so you know which matches to while when you re-install. This would have saved me a day's work for adding probably 1 hr to taking the motor out. Of course some hoses/wires are self explanatory but it gets confusing when its all unplugged and just looks like a pile of wires.
And while you do this, just replace every single seal you can on your trans/motor because why the **** not.
1. B207R Motor with Manual trans flywheel 8 Bolt not 6 Bolt flywheel.
2. Swap to LSJ flywheel. (Consider a new flywheel and upgraded clutch, like I did. If you do, make sure you replace you Throw Out Bearing and Clutch Pipe even if you dont upgrade the clutch. Might as well while you trans is out.)
3. Swap Harmonic Balancer (Stock 9-3 has 1 less rib. This will shred the belt fast.)
4. Swap Oil Pan to LSJ (Make sure your oil pan is hot tanked to remove any melt shards if you blew a piston)
5. Drill & Tap out the Intake Manifold bolt holes to the correct size for and LSJ intake mani. (Sorry forgot the correct size)
6. You'll need to shave down a piece that comes into contact with the tensioner pulley. Same thing as all 2.2/2.4 people who go SC have to do. Little nub of metal from the casting of the block pushes against it. Just grind this down to about 1/2 its original size.
7. Swap ALL SENSORS over from the LSJ to the 9-3 motor (99% of the Saab sensors look the same, however operate differently and may throw codes.)
8. Swap all coolant pipes and pieces as the Saab was a turbo set-up and had different cooling hosing.
9. DO NOT USE THE SAAB's COIL PACKS!!!! They are different!!! I used my LSJ's Spark plugs and I don't think their causing any issues. Recommened is BKR6EGP. I used BKR6E Coppers. I also went a step colder since I'm at about 270whp on E85.
10. Make sure you use your LSJ's fuel rail, the Saabs is very different. However, you may keep the Saab's Oil Cooler, it is no different from ours. And you may keep the water pump. While it is different, it won't create any cooling issues. DO MAKE SURE YOU SWAP the cam sensors. You will need to get it relearned at GM or from a friend with a relearn tool.
11. Once everything is installed and ready make sure you put all proper fluids in it.
Now, I went straight to 80's and E85. SO I have to have my tuner on hand for it's start-up. If you just swap the motor, you "SHOULD" be able to just have it all swapped and fire it up no problem. But I have to proof for this theory. The cams in the saab are different, but not much.
Enjoy. You may contact me if needed with questions. But in short I did the swap and the car is the exact same as before other than I've gained a ton of power from E85 and a 3.0 pulley.
*NOTE* I could be missing a few things, so I'll try to add if I remember or as people ask me more questions.
Last edited by bratboy90; 04-29-2012 at 06:24 PM.
02-27-2012, 05:36 PM
#9
*Update*
Progress has been made.
Bad Block is ready to be hoisted out (Just need to unbolt Mounts)
New motor has been torn down to nothing but a longblock.
Some sensors have been swapped in.
First ISSUE:
Intake Manifold bolt holes are smaller than LSJ, will need to tap larger, or get longer bolts(same size) with a sleeve to make up the gap on the Intake Mani (so it can't wiggle).
Not a big deal. Pics coming tonight after a little more work.
Progress has been made.
Bad Block is ready to be hoisted out (Just need to unbolt Mounts)
New motor has been torn down to nothing but a longblock.
Some sensors have been swapped in.
First ISSUE:
Intake Manifold bolt holes are smaller than LSJ, will need to tap larger, or get longer bolts(same size) with a sleeve to make up the gap on the Intake Mani (so it can't wiggle).
Not a big deal. Pics coming tonight after a little more work.
02-28-2012, 06:41 AM
#13
Do you have detailed info on the saab cam profiles?
Think the saab has some mild turbo cams fitted. Did some quick measurements once and the LSJ cams have more lift and for sure different timing.
For ease of tuning I would simply swap to some LSJ, or ZZP, cams. The Saab also has keyless cam sprockets, so when you use these you will need to dial/measure in your cams carefully.
Think the saab has some mild turbo cams fitted. Did some quick measurements once and the LSJ cams have more lift and for sure different timing.
For ease of tuning I would simply swap to some LSJ, or ZZP, cams. The Saab also has keyless cam sprockets, so when you use these you will need to dial/measure in your cams carefully.
03-01-2012, 04:32 PM
#20
Do you have detailed info on the saab cam profiles?
Think the saab has some mild turbo cams fitted. Did some quick measurements once and the LSJ cams have more lift and for sure different timing.
For ease of tuning I would simply swap to some LSJ, or ZZP, cams. The Saab also has keyless cam sprockets, so when you use these you will need to dial/measure in your cams carefully.
Think the saab has some mild turbo cams fitted. Did some quick measurements once and the LSJ cams have more lift and for sure different timing.
For ease of tuning I would simply swap to some LSJ, or ZZP, cams. The Saab also has keyless cam sprockets, so when you use these you will need to dial/measure in your cams carefully.
03-10-2012, 06:13 AM
#24
From some info gathered I found out the Intake Cam is the same for this motor, but the Exhaust Cam is slightly more aggressive. So I've found online. I guess we'll see when I drop in and get some numbers. Found a hoist, motor will be pulled out soon and swap rest of parts.
Please share your cam findings here. (Saab lift? duration?)
The Saab cams I measured in a B207 head had a bit less lift compared to LSJ cams, so we will simply use the LSJ's for our SC engine.
