Project Super SAAB (SWAP)
#126
Oh, and I finally got offical cam specs if someone wants to know:
Number of bearings: 6
Bearing diameter (mm): 26.935-26.960
End float(w/o camshaft sprocet)(mm): .11-.184
End float(w/ camshaft sprocket fitted)(mm): .104-.177
cam lift(mm): 9.70
Exhaust lift(mm): 9.90
B207 E/L:
cam lift, intake (mm): 5.75528
cam lift, exhaust (mm): 5.87187
Inlet valves:
opening: 10 degrees BTDC
closing: 40 degrees ABDC
Exhaust valves:
opening: 34 degrees BBDC
closing:16 degrees ATDC
B207 R:
cam lift, intake (mm): 5.75544
cam lift, exhaust (mm): 5.87203
Inlet valves:
opening: 14 degrees BTDC
closing: 41 degrees ABDC
Exhaust valves:
opening: 47 degrees BBDC
closing:13 degrees ATDC
B207 E/L: Total valve opening duration intake and exhaust: 230 degrees
B207 R: Total valve opening duration intake: Intake: 235 degrees, Exhaust: 240 degrees
Anyone wanna tell us what all this should do for a supercharged application?? Seems like less lift, but way more duration.
Number of bearings: 6
Bearing diameter (mm): 26.935-26.960
End float(w/o camshaft sprocet)(mm): .11-.184
End float(w/ camshaft sprocket fitted)(mm): .104-.177
cam lift(mm): 9.70
Exhaust lift(mm): 9.90
B207 E/L:
cam lift, intake (mm): 5.75528
cam lift, exhaust (mm): 5.87187
Inlet valves:
opening: 10 degrees BTDC
closing: 40 degrees ABDC
Exhaust valves:
opening: 34 degrees BBDC
closing:16 degrees ATDC
B207 R:
cam lift, intake (mm): 5.75544
cam lift, exhaust (mm): 5.87203
Inlet valves:
opening: 14 degrees BTDC
closing: 41 degrees ABDC
Exhaust valves:
opening: 47 degrees BBDC
closing:13 degrees ATDC
B207 E/L: Total valve opening duration intake and exhaust: 230 degrees
B207 R: Total valve opening duration intake: Intake: 235 degrees, Exhaust: 240 degrees
Anyone wanna tell us what all this should do for a supercharged application?? Seems like less lift, but way more duration.
#130
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
Just a heads up I tore my engine down yesterday and my pistons and cylinder walls are in amazing shape. Its just the valves are burnt. I think as easy as the teardown in the car was in my driveway I am going to build build build. Already called up Diamon pistons in MI and ordered a set of forged pistons and getting a ported used head.
#131
Information for the stock LSJ cams is easily found on the ZZP website regarding their stage cams.
*UPDATE*
So tried to do a re-learn with HPTuners. FAILED.....Dang
Then my tuner thought why not try a re-learn using his shops Snap-On MODIS.....
WORKED!!!! Driven about 70 miles and restarted about 9times.
Starts on first or second turn. Did have it take 20cranks just this last start up, but then I shut it off and it fired right up WTF O.o These spark plugs are probably heavily fouled from sometimes having to crank 30+ times until it would restart.... So I'm replacing them spark plugs tonight to some BKR7E, which is one step colder. I had ran these before. I has last attempted to go to stock heat range to help with start-ups. Lol it didn't.
Also since getting this re-learn in, I've noticed far better throttle response and smoother shifting transitions. The car would spike learn on shift as if I was downshifting, now it doesn't think I'm downshifting and just holds fuel AFRs at 1.0 lambda.
Now I randomly have the Catalytic Below Efficiency code coming on. Funny because I've been cat-less for about 3months now. BAHAHAHAHAH. Will have to tune it out on HPT.
Parts Soon:
Ported TB and Ported Intake Mani are on their way to my doorstep
*UPDATE*
So tried to do a re-learn with HPTuners. FAILED.....Dang
Then my tuner thought why not try a re-learn using his shops Snap-On MODIS.....
WORKED!!!! Driven about 70 miles and restarted about 9times.
Starts on first or second turn. Did have it take 20cranks just this last start up, but then I shut it off and it fired right up WTF O.o These spark plugs are probably heavily fouled from sometimes having to crank 30+ times until it would restart.... So I'm replacing them spark plugs tonight to some BKR7E, which is one step colder. I had ran these before. I has last attempted to go to stock heat range to help with start-ups. Lol it didn't.
Also since getting this re-learn in, I've noticed far better throttle response and smoother shifting transitions. The car would spike learn on shift as if I was downshifting, now it doesn't think I'm downshifting and just holds fuel AFRs at 1.0 lambda.
Now I randomly have the Catalytic Below Efficiency code coming on. Funny because I've been cat-less for about 3months now. BAHAHAHAHAH. Will have to tune it out on HPT.
Parts Soon:
Ported TB and Ported Intake Mani are on their way to my doorstep
#137
*UPDATE*
1. So we've nearly fixed start up issues. The car requires a custom made start-up based on coolant temps. Like very strict...It's a lot better now. It used to take 20+ cranks sometimes to get it to start once warm.
Now it's like 3 max. As are cold starts. Much better. E85 being E85 I'd say at this point.
2. Second issue was sometimes on a wot pull the car would completely shut down for no reason....Reason why.. Well we noticed it only did it on logs in which I bouced limiter and let off quickly. So we're assuming that since all that fuel is in the car and no air, and since the cam/crank position can't be perfected that's how it's going to be. So tip....Shift at 6,500rpm. Which is fine as a M62 stops making power at that point anyways...LOL
The swap is proving to cause some weird issues, but nothing that makes it not worth saving over $1,000!!!
Video of a restart!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE_QL7qKyp0
1. So we've nearly fixed start up issues. The car requires a custom made start-up based on coolant temps. Like very strict...It's a lot better now. It used to take 20+ cranks sometimes to get it to start once warm.
Now it's like 3 max. As are cold starts. Much better. E85 being E85 I'd say at this point.
2. Second issue was sometimes on a wot pull the car would completely shut down for no reason....Reason why.. Well we noticed it only did it on logs in which I bouced limiter and let off quickly. So we're assuming that since all that fuel is in the car and no air, and since the cam/crank position can't be perfected that's how it's going to be. So tip....Shift at 6,500rpm. Which is fine as a M62 stops making power at that point anyways...LOL
The swap is proving to cause some weird issues, but nothing that makes it not worth saving over $1,000!!!
Video of a restart!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE_QL7qKyp0
Last edited by bratboy90; 10-19-2012 at 07:34 PM.
#139
Lol me too. I just ran a 13.866 @ 104Mph. Having issues with my MAF sensor... Had to shift at 6,500. damn good time considering that and 50% humidity with 50degree outside temps.
Posting video to Drag Racing Threads now.
HERE:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/drag...1/#post6749110
Posting video to Drag Racing Threads now.
HERE:
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/drag...1/#post6749110
Last edited by bratboy90; 10-20-2012 at 09:18 PM.
#140
*Update*
I've swapped a LSJ head on with LSJ cams and it's tuned now. Not perfect yet, but a header/dp leak is killing me.
Runs great. Starts on first fire up.
I think the main issue was the Saab cams. The hex for the CPS(Cam Position Sensor) is not alignment properly like a LSJ's is as the Saab one is used as a Vaccum for OEM and LSJ is for the delicacy of timing. Once the LSJ cams were in their were no more CPS issues at all and the car runs perfect.
I've swapped a LSJ head on with LSJ cams and it's tuned now. Not perfect yet, but a header/dp leak is killing me.
Runs great. Starts on first fire up.
I think the main issue was the Saab cams. The hex for the CPS(Cam Position Sensor) is not alignment properly like a LSJ's is as the Saab one is used as a Vaccum for OEM and LSJ is for the delicacy of timing. Once the LSJ cams were in their were no more CPS issues at all and the car runs perfect.
#142
Stock Swap
Sooooo - If I want to use a Saab engine simply as a longblock donor - no performance mods, simple replacement for my LSJ that ate a ring - I could swap in my LSJ cams, sensors, flywheel, exhaust manifold, SC, belt drive components and be in business. As this will be the same electronic components that came out of the car, will it have to be re-learned? I would think this would be the same as putting the original engine back in. Appreciate all the work you have done, agree parts are on the high side for LSJ motors, especially if you are just replacing stock.
#143
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Join Date: 11-07-12
Location: Columbus,Ohio
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Sooooo - If I want to use a Saab engine simply as a longblock donor - no performance mods, simple replacement for my LSJ that ate a ring - I could swap in my LSJ cams, sensors, flywheel, exhaust manifold, SC, belt drive components and be in business. As this will be the same electronic components that came out of the car, will it have to be re-learned? I would think this would be the same as putting the original engine back in. Appreciate all the work you have done, agree parts are on the high side for LSJ motors, especially if you are just replacing stock.
you can probably find a used Saab engine in good shape for 800 or so, just block prob 400 or less
#144
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but other than that, our prices for other parts is downright retarded. And there is a monopoly for performance vendors and parts because of such a small market. That's why several guys have ditched the DMFW and converted to a Cobalt clutch with a lightweight flywheel
#148
Wow. Been a long while now. Still running this block on an LSJ head now. No issues to speak of actually. Was very reliable on my M62 with a 2.65 pulley on E85 and water/meth injection preblower. Car sure did get down, but I was always wanting a little more. So last winter I was waiting for a good price on a TVS 1320 to pop up. I had a deal lined up and the buy backed out... So since I had cash ready to go I started piecing together a turbo setup. I kept the stock intake manifold for an LSJ and and running an S252et around 19psi on e85 with water/meth injection still.
Here's a video of a roll race at the track:
https://youtu.be/3T99qJhO8qw
Here's a picture of the setup. Sorry shitty quality.
https://i.imgur.com/hHDQWcR.jpg
Here's a video of a roll race at the track:
https://youtu.be/3T99qJhO8qw
Here's a picture of the setup. Sorry shitty quality.
https://i.imgur.com/hHDQWcR.jpg
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