Well from what I hear. Whatever you put on this car like full bolt-on's the ECU will still make the car run at 260hp. So if you plan on doing anything to the car you really can't because of this.That is the stupidest thing GM does was dumb crap why would you make a ECU do that if you are putting out a tuner car? Really don't make no sense what so ever. So there is no point of even buying this car if you plan to Mod it. Its just a waste of money. So this car is pretty much stock even if you but full bolt-on's on it will still only make 260? That's because of the ECU and you can't buy anything to crack that and GM is not going to sell a ECU where you can mod it. This is a joke. How do I contact the GM performance division?

lol, this is the same with any car until tuning software is available. u will always be able to go standalone. chill out brotha.

ummm:wtf: HPTUNERS is already working with a beta version of tuning for the LNF cobalt

really?? fricken newbs

just checking my gf traded in her 06 SS/SC has a SS/TC ordered. Just checking i have no idea about these cars I drive something way different

lol, this is the same with any car until tuning software is available. u will always be able to go standalone. chill out brotha.

but....but...but....I want 500 whp for $500 with no reliability issues!!! RAWR!!

lolzzz. This site just keep drawing in the idiots huh.

Just stupid

phhhreakin noobs

wow.. how little about cars do you know... I mean really... Epic n00b!

Ban this guy please.

Wow. The car is not even out yet, so there will be no tuning until the car comes out. I've seen on the GXP and Sky redline forums they were still able to hit 300+hp/tq. So just give it some time.

ya...OP...tht was a pretty epic fail lol.

wow.. how little about cars do you know... I mean really... Epic n00b!

Like I said man i no nothing about these cars. I am an F-body guy

LMAO at "how do i contact GM performance devision" they would have gotten a good laugh

lol, this is the same with any car until tuning software is available. u will always be able to go standalone. chill out brotha.

no, it's not. you can get power from bolt ons with pretty much any car. not this one though.

Wow. The car is not even out yet, so there will be no tuning until the car comes out. I've seen on the GXP and Sky redline forums they were still able to hit 300+hp/tq. So just give it some time.

let me say it big: it's not the same stop comparing it to the redline/gxp. not the same at all. without a tune all mods will be worthless. they will be expensive noise makers, and that's all.

subscribed to see where this goes... im not talking anymore in this tho... maybe

Like I said man i no nothing about these cars. I am an F-body guy

then you should know better, if you want excessive amount of power build up an LS1 w/ some LQ9 heads and an APE twin turbo kit

want a daily driver with a decent amount of power, cobalt SS/tc

no, it's not. you can get power from bolt ons with pretty much any car. not this one though.



let me say it big: it's not the same stop comparing it to the redline/gxp. not the same at all. without a tune all mods will be worthless. they will be expensive noise makers, and that's all.

So if GM don't come out with something about the ECU then getting one from HP tuners or somewhere else with just throw your warranty right away

So if GM don't come out with something about the ECU then getting one from HP tuners or somewhere else with just throw your warranty right away

yes, messing with the ecu is a big warranty no-no.

So if GM don't come out with something about the ECU then getting one from HP tuners or somewhere else with just throw your warranty right away

You're discussing altering the programming in your brand new cars' (that you don't even own yet) ECU... and you're considering your warranty in the same sentence?


Good one.

Di Ftl

let me say it big: it's not the same stop comparing it to the redline/gxp. not the same at all. without a tune all mods will be worthless. they will be expensive noise makers, and that's all.[/QUOTE]


I never said they were the same. I was just saying that the gxp/redline were still making power without tuning and no one [SIZE="5"]REALLY[SIZE="5"] knows if the ss/tc will be able to make power until it comes out.

let me say it big: it's not the same stop comparing it to the redline/gxp. not the same at all. without a tune all mods will be worthless. they will be expensive noise makers, and that's all.


I never said they were the same. I was just saying that the gxp/redline were still making power without tuning and no one [SIZE="5"]REALLY[SIZE="5"] knows if the ss/tc will be able to make power until it comes out.[/QUOTE]

what you dont understand, or what it appears that you dont understand anyway, is the car comes stock doing 260HP, and with full bolt-ons and being in -20*F weather, the ECU will STILL only make 260HP the HP production is directly controlled by the ECU. So increasing air intake will not yield even small HP gains. Understand now?

ill like to race this tc to see what it got against my raw intake and gm s2 and magnaflow exahaust.

Yes I know the ECU controlls the hp. But I thought the other lnf cars were controlled by the ECU too but still able to make some power. If that is not the case and I read wrong then I'm wrong.

If your girlfriend really loved you she'd spend money on mods for your car, not hers :)

ill like to race this tc to see what it got against my raw intake and gm s2 and magnaflow exahaust.

Once the driver that understands the no lift shift and gets used to it. You won't have a chance, but granny shifting LNF will be a close race

This thread is full of stupidity

If your girlfriend really loved you she'd spend money on mods for your car, not hers :)

hahaha yeah right

Once the driver that understands the no lift shift and gets used to it. You won't have a chance, but granny shifting LNF will be a close race

thanks vin. . . got any other FNF lines to back up your incredible knowledge of cars?


Do you even understand how no lift shifts work? Its not like the engine constantly runs, with no lift shifts as soon as you press the clutch and shift the computer automatically cuts power, by retarding the timing massively. ALl no lift shits do is eliminate the human aspect a little when it comes to shifting. Yes it will keep the RPMS up higher and make shifting faster and easier. I actually question if you will be able to chirp the tires between gear shifts. I would like to see at what point the engine retards the timing and at what point the timing is added back again.

Basically in reality a good driver with a normal stick will be faster than a no lift shit driver. This type of no lift shifts is more for the average kid whos going to be buying this car who really doesnt have a whole lot of driving skills. You take two identical cars with two identical drivers except one car has no lift shifts setup GMs way and the other has a normal lift shift trans, the lift shift trans will win everytime.

This thread is full of stupidity

what do you expect, read the title. Might as well say "Retard creates first thread, YAYYYYYYY"

Actually Jayson, the no lift shift does use the variable valve timing and ignition to maintain boost pressure during the shift, provided the human can shift fast enough.

"GMPD created a "No-Lift Shift" software algorithm that kicks in when you're at full throttle and press in the clutch. It manipulates the engine's variable cam phasing and retards the ignition timing so the cylinder contents burn later in the cycle than they usually would, creating more energy to help the turbocharger maintain boost. "

Hardly a shifting for dummies move, there is quick a bit more thought into it than that.

true it does maintain the boost while you shift, but still a little gimmicky, just like the launch control. Wheres the challenge?

Well w/o it no matter what the driver did he would lose boost, so its not really like there is a 'challenge' that exists to keep the boost up. Its either a function the vehicle has or its not.

Actually Jayson, the no lift shift does use the variable valve timing and ignition to maintain boost pressure during the shift, provided the human can shift fast enough.

"GMPD created a "No-Lift Shift" software algorithm that kicks in when you're at full throttle and press in the clutch. It manipulates the engine's variable cam phasing and retards the ignition timing so the cylinder contents burn later in the cycle than they usually would, creating more energy to help the turbocharger maintain boost. "

Hardly a shifting for dummies move, there is quick a bit more thought into it than that.

yeah you do realise what you copied and pasted is pretty much exactly what i said? IT RETARDS THE TIMING! In order to not grenade the transmission and burn the clutch to hell, timing must be retarded massively which is still a loss of horsepower. The variable valve timing prolly does nothing more than keep the valves closed longer so less air gets into the engine and keeps the boost pressure higher. While yes it will keep the boost up, like that tiny little turbo is going to have a hard time making the boost back? And even if you say wait, what about abigger turbo? Nope, bigger turbo requires a standalone so say goodbye to your no lift shifts. All your doing is removing the loss of boost, but thats not a big deal on such a small turbo. Its not a big deal on the LSJ because it comes back instantly. But like i said, there is a time period in there that engine is going to be making alot less HP as if you took your foot off the gas, and if that period of time is longer than it takes a person to shift normally, then its a waste to have no lift shifts. Because with a normal shifting trans, the power loss is only determined by how slow of a shifter the driver is. Now the loss of power is determined by how slow of a shifter the driver is and how long it takes the ECU to return the engine timing and valve timing after the shift is made.

So again, there isnt anything more to it than retarding the timing and reducing the HP. It is shifting for dummies.

"retarding the timing"

AND

"manipulates the engine's variable cam phasing and retards the ignition timing so the cylinder contents burn later in the cycle than they usually would, creating more energy to help the turbocharger maintain boost"

are COMPLETELY different things

If you can't see that, well then there is no point in debating this further. Also, the power loss during a shift isn't due to shifting speed, its due to a change in RPM of the engine between gears. Not sure why you are saying that shifting speed effects HP in the next gear since you will be entering the gear at the same RPM (this is w/o the 'no-lift shift' feature).

"retarding the timing"

AND

"manipulates the engine's variable cam phasing and retards the ignition timing so the cylinder contents burn later in the cycle than they usually would, creating more energy to help the turbocharger maintain boost"

are COMPLETELY different things

If you can't see that, well then there is no point in debating this further. Also, the power loss during a shift isn't due to shifting speed, its due to a change in RPM of the engine between gears. Not sure why you are saying that shifting speed effects HP in the next gear since you will be entering the gear at the same RPM (this is w/o the 'no-lift shift' feature).

ohh please please please tell me the difference, i seriously cant wait for this one.

This thread is full of stupidity

care to explain?

retarding the ignition timing alone will affect the engine differently than changing ignition and valve timing

retarding ignition timing alone and leaving valve timing the same will reduce cylinder pressure at any given crank angle

changing both at the same time can allow the calibrator to change the cylinder pressure profile, delay opening the valve until later and you get more pressure later on in the crank cycle

I'm going to say one thing:

No lift shift was created to keep full boost when shifting.
So when you shift into the next gear, your at full boost instead of spooling up. Resulting is maximum speed attained much quicker then traditional shifting since your already at full boost. The LNF makes full power at 6200 rpm. Shifting from 2nd to 3rd you drop down to 4500 rpm, but guess what, your already making close to full power, instead of waiting.

So, saying no lift shift is basically shifting for people who don't know how to, is absolutely retarted. You can only no lift shift in competition mode and at full wot. Thats it, so while your daily or spirited driving YOU HAVE TO LIFT. Therefore everybody has to learn how to drive stick the traditional way.

Any other LSJ owners/ LNF haters want to chime in some more.

I think this should be :lock:

As long as no ad-hominem happens I see no reason to lock this. The calibrators at GM wouldn't put this in unless it was for a reason, the reason has been clearly stated and some choose not to believe for whatever reason. I've explained what I know from my experience, if anyone else wants to add on go for it.

retarding the ignition timing alone will affect the engine differently than changing ignition and valve timing

retarding ignition timing alone and leaving valve timing the same will reduce cylinder pressure at any given crank angle

changing both at the same time can allow the calibrator to change the cylinder pressure profile, delay opening the valve until later and you get more pressure later on in the crank cycle

now do you want to re-read my last post on page 2 where i accepted what you said that it uses variable valve timing to delay the opening of the valves to keep boost pressure high? Im not arguing that.

What it boils down to is that this doesnt do anything for someone who can actually shift a stick car fast. The engines power is still reduced massively but now instead of having one point of power reduction you have two.

Its still shifting for dummies... this car is going to epitmize the total lack of tuner support GM gives and the total lack of knowledge of cars that the Cobalt Tuner crowd has. Face it, GM made a car that looks like a tuner car, but is designed and built for the everyday driver who doesnt know shit about cars and was built with enough safety features so that the engine and trans actively work to save itself from doing anything other than what GM wants it to.

This car is a street performance car for dummies. This car isnt a SRT4, CSRT4, STI, EVO, MS3 or any other turbo 4 banger that people can turn into 12 second cars with little work. This is a car that actively works to save itself from the driver. Im sure people will tune this car easily to 270WHP or so on the stock turbo. Sure you MIGHT see some high 12 second cars on the stock turbo. But this car will never be the mid low 12 second car or high 11 car without a serious amount of money.

I'm a little late to join in but.... Damn noobs

dude i'm not hating on the lnf, i think its awesome. i think the no-lift shift may be a good thing in the making. I just said, it lessens the challenge to hit that perfectly timed and executed 2-3 shift. or the touch and feel it takes to launch a car perfectly

now do you want to re-read my last post on page 2 where i accepted what you said that it uses variable valve timing to delay the opening of the valves to keep boost pressure high? Im not arguing that.

What it boils down to is that this doesnt do anything for someone who can actually shift a stick car fast. The engines power is still reduced massively but now instead of having one point of power reduction you have two.

Its still shifting for dummies... this car is going to epitmize the total lack of tuner support GM gives and the total lack of knowledge of cars that the Cobalt Tuner crowd has. Face it, GM made a car that looks like a tuner car, but is designed and built for the everyday driver who doesnt know shit about cars and was built with enough safety features so that the engine and trans actively work to save itself from doing anything other than what GM wants it to.

This car is a street performance car for dummies. This car isnt a SRT4, CSRT4, STI, EVO, MS3 or any other turbo 4 banger that people can turn into 12 second cars with little work. This is a car that actively works to save itself from the driver. Im sure people will tune this car easily to 270WHP or so on the stock turbo. Sure you MIGHT see some high 12 second cars on the stock turbo. But this car will never be the mid low 12 second car or high 11 car without a serious amount of money.

It will still keep boost during a shift that it otherwise would lose, yes or no?

If yes, then it has added function

If no, then its just a nanny feature

Figure you still have to shift in about ~.2 seconds

Most everything I have encountered points to as a function adding feature and not a draw-back.

And yes, this car will not be as easy to make fast as those listed above. The turbo is small and not enough people have experience with calibrating DI engines. Its original design intent though isn't bad, its still pushing a warrantied 260hp out of a 2L.

Also, if you are complaining about money to make a car fast, why would you buy a brand new car anyways? You are going to kill the warranty and end up replacing a vast majority of the parts, so buy used. Want fast & cheap? Go RWD, don't fight weight transfer, get a 5.0 mustang or LT1 f-body, parts for those are dirt cheap. Want to spend a lot of money and have more of a challenge? Well then the Cobalt SS/tc is right up your alley.

You don't have to buy it if you don't want. GM doesn't make money by catering to the 1% who want 11 second FWD cars, its not good business. Hell, they couldn't even sell enough low 13s RWD cars that cost $23k (base price of Z28 in 2002). The Cobalt SS is a halo car (albeit a cheap one) to get people interested in the brand.

Swapping the turbo and getting a tune will be a lot less then you think.
Try maybe a grand. Adding a turbo to a non turbocharged car costs a lot more because of all the parts needed. This already has all the parts. I let Hahn come out with a great kit for this car a year from now. And when 5 years hits, and my warrenty is up, Ill be all over it.

wow, there is alot of noobage in this thread... fu*kin ay...

Swapping the turbo and getting a tune will be a lot less then you think.
Try maybe a grand. Adding a turbo to a non turbocharged car costs a lot more because of all the parts needed. This already has all the parts. I let Hahn come out with a great kit for this car a year from now. And when 5 years hits, and my warrenty is up, Ill be all over it.
its not that simple

And like i said yes no lift shifts has a usable function for the majority of the car drivers who want to drive a stick faster but really cant. ITs a limiting ffeature for people who can drive a stick well and shift well.

What it boils down to with the original thread creator. Is the car worth it?

If your an average joe wanting a fun quick car to play with on the way to work. Then yeah its prolly worth it.

If your like 99% of the people on this forum who want a fun quick car they can turn into a performance beast, no its not worth it. Its not worth it to buy this car, 23K is a bit over priced for a GM econobox, you can get alot better for the money. Or if you want a car that you can turn into a hobby car its not worth it either.

its not that simple

And like i said yes no lift shifts has a usable function for the majority of the car drivers who want to drive a stick faster but really cant. ITs a limiting ffeature for people who can drive a stick well and shift well.

What it boils down to with the original thread creator. Is the car worth it?

If your an average joe wanting a fun quick car to play with on the way to work. Then yeah its prolly worth it.

If your like 99% of the people on this forum who want a fun quick car they can turn into a performance beast, no its not worth it. Its not worth it to buy this car, 23K is a bit over priced for a GM econobox, you can get alot better for the money. Or if you want a car that you can turn into a hobby car its not worth it either.


I will agree only to a degree.
I shopped around when I was first looking to buy a new car. The cobalt was and still is one of the, if not the, best car for the price when you compare options to cost. Sunroof, soundsystem, supercharged/turbocharged, and so far only the MS3 compares. Civic Si, HA!, VW GTi - too expensive if you got the same options, Mustang- *see, VW GTi*, and the list goes on. So what I disagree with is if you're buying a new car and you plan on turning it into a beast (and you have money to do so), no there aren't better options for the money. I don't know who told you it was overpriced. I hate when people like you say stupid shit like "it's an overpriced econobox". It may be in the same class as the econoboxes because of it's base model, but look at it's target market, it's not meant for Maw and Paw Kettle who are trying to get the best MPG they can find. It's meant to be fast. That said, it's NOT overpriced. Shop around, there's not much out there in this same class that compares (like I said, so far only the MS3 comes to mind). You just have to be patient and wait for the mods to come out like we all had to wait for the SS/SC. You all act like this is tragic and unheard of -- the SS/SC folks only recently got all the options for big horsepower.

Where I agree is that if you soley want to tune, I wouldn't recommend getting a new car anyway. In this instance you would be correct in saying, "there are better options". If you're modding it correctly, then who gives a shit about mileage or any of that stuff, you'll be changing it anyway.

To the original poster -- ask an SS/SC owner how long we just sat around waiting for shit to come out for our cars. Your F-Body is probably from the 90's. 1st, not everything was computerized like shit is today. 2nd, that's a hell of a lot of time to develope parts. 3rd, re-read number 2 and now take into consideration that your g/f's car hasn't even hit the streets yet!! So stop getting all bent out of shape, the world will not end, the car is totally worth the money if you're in the market for a fast, new with warranty, car that has potential.

You just have to be patient and wait for the mods to come out like we all had to wait for the SS/SC. You all act like this is tragic and unheard of -- the SS/SC folks only recently got all the options for big horsepower.

it happens with every car, first there are no mods, then there are some mods that arn't great and are extremely expensive, then over time they get better and cheaper

Oh my gosh...
Another thread full of FAIL!


Once the driver that understands the no lift shift and gets used to it. You won't have a chance, but granny shifting LNF will be a close race

What about against an LSJ with NLS and Launch control? ;)

lolzzz. This site just keep drawing in the idiots huh.

YEa, the longer this site is around the more we seem to get....

Oh my gosh...
Another thread full of FAIL!




What about against an LSJ with NLS and Launch control? ;)

No lift shift helps the LNF a lot more then it would with the LSJ since the power is almost immediate with the LSJ no?
I could be wrong.

If your like 99% of the people on this forum who want a fun quick car they can turn into a performance beast, no its not worth it. Its not worth it to buy this car, 23K is a bit over priced for a GM econobox, you can get alot better for the money. Or if you want a car that you can turn into a hobby car its not worth it either.


i guess i am the 1 out of 100 people on this forum...i just want a quick and fairly fast but reliable car that i dont have to do any performance modifications to. 0 to 60 in 5.5 seconds, quarter mile in 13.9 seconds, .91g on the skidpad...and with a factory warranty for about $21,000...not to mention 30 miles to the gallon...please show me ANYTHING that is alot better for the money

its not that simple

And like i said yes no lift shifts has a usable function for the majority of the car drivers who want to drive a stick faster but really cant. ITs a limiting ffeature for people who can drive a stick well and shift well.

What it boils down to with the original thread creator. Is the car worth it?

If your an average joe wanting a fun quick car to play with on the way to work. Then yeah its prolly worth it.

If your like 99% of the people on this forum who want a fun quick car they can turn into a performance beast, no its not worth it. Its not worth it to buy this car, 23K is a bit over priced for a GM econobox, you can get alot better for the money. Or if you want a car that you can turn into a hobby car its not worth it either.

Right now, If he's planning on tuning. He should be a used car.
If he's planning on having a brand spankin new, good mileage, good looking, yet fast car. The cobalt TC is for him. He has a 5 year 100,000 mile warrenty. He shouldn't be dumping cash for mods until its up so GM will stand behind there warrenty. Once that warrenty is up, there will be plenty mods out for this car. Hahn has already said the second he gets his hands on this car he'll work quick for something good. He'll be able to turn it into a performance beast believe me.

If I turned my pig ass saab to a pretty quick car then this car should not have a prob.

Putting a G into this car when the warrenty is up will make it a low 12 second car no problem. Nordic got around a saab computer, I think Hahn will have no prob with this one

This thread has gotten out of hand. Jayson your a smart guy you know what your talking about.

Lets just end this here
:lock:

Right now, If he's planning on tuning. He should be a used car.
If he's planning on having a brand spankin new, good mileage, good looking, yet fast car. The cobalt TC is for him. He has a 5 year 100,000 mile warrenty. He shouldn't be dumping cash for mods until its up so GM will stand behind there warrenty. Once that warrenty is up, there will be plenty mods out for this car. Hahn has already said the second he gets his hands on this car he'll work quick for something good. He'll be able to turn it into a performance beast believe me.

If I turned my pig ass saab to a pretty quick car then this car should not have a prob.

Putting a G into this car when the warrenty is up will make it a low 12 second car no problem. Nordic got around a saab computer, I think Hahn will have no prob with this one

This thread has gotten out of hand. Jayson your a smart guy you know what your talking about.

Lets just end this here
:lock:

I agree except in the 12's for 1K...


:lock:

No lift shift helps the LNF a lot more then it would with the LSJ since the power is almost immediate with the LSJ no?
I could be wrong.

Yes, it would benefit turbo guys more.
In the end, it's an 'electronic driver mod', to allow more consistent runs.

I simply mentioned it so that all the fan boys get all bent up and ask how I plan to run NLS and launch control on my car... :lol:
(Seriously though... I've got the system on order... :) )

I personally dont care about the "mods" and all that because everytime a new car comes out ppl always say there wont be any mods or stage kits or turbos or blah blah blah and about 90% of the time in about 12-16months there is a legit solution to making the car faster....

I will buy the SS/TC and I will enjoy it..You can always say it will beat a SC..It will pass emissions...And upgrade the turbo.. If buying a car you want to mod who cares about the warranty? You know what you are buying your goal is to trick it out

If its not fast... it better look good as hell

This thread isnt out of hand, its a legitimate discussion...

13.9 from motor trend is nice, but the 100MPH trap really isnt nice at all considering the LSJ can do that stock. Now assuming the LSJ is under rated by 20HP or so, say its got 240HP at the crank. The LNF has 20 more HP but is trapping the same as a stock LSJ. ET tells what a driver can do, trap tells what a car can do. Im sorry im not impressed that GM added 55HP and couldnt make the car trap any faster in the quarter mile. Not to mention i have a feeling GM gave motor trend a "modified" car to inflate its numbers. Its no secrete that car companies will do this, and after the last cobalt motor trend tested and managed a pathetic 15.1, i think GM realised it really hurt the cars image. Because it was rather interesting to see that video on youtube of SS/TC running low 15s/high 14's with the same trap as the LSJ.

This car wont run 12s for a 1k. Just not possible, i dont think you will even be able to run 12s on the stock turbo. That one guy tunned his LNF to 26PSI and made 272WHP, thats like a massive 30WHP gain with a shit ton of extra PSI. Yes he did get 323 TQ, but it peaked at like 4K and quickly fell, not really helpful. That engine nor its turbo will last very long with that tune. I think the average tune on this car can expect maybe 260WHP at somewhere around 23PSI and even that is pushing the limits of the engine and turbo.

And a turbo swap isnt a 1k investment in this car. Just because its already turbo doesnt mean you can just slap a bigger turbo on it. Your still going to need a new turbo manifold, downpipe, turbo, tubing, compressor, BOV and stand alone ECU. Its going to cost somewhere around 3K-4k to do a turbo swap for this car and thats being really conservative.

Like ive said, this is a cool little car for great gas mileage and onramp run. I still dont think its worth the price tag for a fully loaded one. This car isnt even a good car from a modding standpoint and people should stay away from it if they want something like an SRT4 or other turbo car that can be made into a fast car.

Yes, it would benefit turbo guys more.
In the end, it's an 'electronic driver mod', to allow more consistent runs.

I simply mentioned it so that all the fan boys get all bent up and ask how I plan to run NLS and launch control on my car... :lol:
(Seriously though... I've got the system on order... :) )

Sounds pretty sick lol. I gotta hear that supercharger with NLS

[QUOTE=-Jayson-;2327655]This thread isnt out of hand, its a legitimate discussion...

13.9 from motor trend is nice, but the 100MPH trap really isnt nice at all considering the LSJ can do that stock. Now assuming the LSJ is under rated by 20HP or so, say its got 240HP at the crank. The LNF has 20 more HP but is trapping the same as a stock LSJ. ET tells what a driver can do, trap tells what a car can do. Im sorry im not impressed that GM added 55HP and couldnt make the car trap any faster in the quarter mile. Not to mention i have a feeling GM gave motor trend a "modified" car to inflate its numbers. Its no secrete that car companies will do this, and after the last cobalt motor trend tested and managed a pathetic 15.1, i think GM realised it really hurt the cars image. Because it was rather interesting to see that video on youtube of SS/TC running low 15s/high 14's with the same trap as the LSJ.

This car wont run 12s for a 1k. Just not possible, i dont think you will even be able to run 12s on the stock turbo. That one guy tunned his LNF to 26PSI and made 272WHP, thats like a massive 30WHP gain with a shit ton of extra PSI. Yes he did get 323 TQ, but it peaked at like 4K and quickly fell, not really helpful. That engine nor its turbo will last very long with that tune. I think the average tune on this car can expect maybe 260WHP at somewhere around 23PSI and even that is pushing the limits of the engine and turbo.

And a turbo swap isnt a 1k investment in this car. Just because its already turbo doesnt mean you can just slap a bigger turbo on it. Your still going to need a new turbo manifold, downpipe, turbo, tubing, compressor, BOV and stand alone ECU. Its going to cost somewhere around 3K-4k to do a turbo swap for this car and thats being really conservative.
QUOTE]

It cost me 1.5k to swap my turbo, ecu, dp, stock tubing was pretty good on the saab. This price doesnt include installation tho. you won't need a bov unless you run a huge turbo. I ended up running a 14.1 @ 110mph (I needed to launch conservativly cause my tranny isnt very strong)

and I'll wait for the car to come out. I'll run it just for you. I'll run a 13.5 @ 105mph on stock tires, stock everything. Just give me to july for my car to come in.

Sounds pretty sick lol. I gotta hear that supercharger with NLS


Should be something like this....

whiiiiiinnnneeeeee *clutch* WHIIINE (faint popping from secondary limiter) *de-clutch* WHIIIiiiiiineeeeee

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I have a pretty good feeling it will just sound like a pulsing scream.

This thread isnt out of hand, its a legitimate discussion...

13.9 from motor trend is nice, but the 100MPH trap really isnt nice at all considering the LSJ can do that stock. Now assuming the LSJ is under rated by 20HP or so, say its got 240HP at the crank. The LNF has 20 more HP but is trapping the same as a stock LSJ. ET tells what a driver can do, trap tells what a car can do. Im sorry im not impressed that GM added 55HP and couldnt make the car trap any faster in the quarter mile. Not to mention i have a feeling GM gave motor trend a "modified" car to inflate its numbers. Its no secrete that car companies will do this, and after the last cobalt motor trend tested and managed a pathetic 15.1, i think GM realised it really hurt the cars image. Because it was rather interesting to see that video on youtube of SS/TC running low 15s/high 14's with the same trap as the LSJ.


trap speed is not the same as a stock LSJ...trap speed was 13.9 at 102.5 from motor trend...14.0 at 103.6 at edmunds...this car is faster 0-60, faster e.t. in the 1/4, faster trap speed in the 1/4, it handles better, and brakes better...i dont know that much about the stage kits for the LSJ, but from what i have read, this performs better than stage 3 for the LSJ...but right from the factory, with no extra money spent on stage kits, and a full warranty

Once the driver that understands the no lift shift and gets used to it. You won't have a chance, but granny shifting LNF will be a close race

...ok buddy. wont have a chance? don't be dumb.

i suddenly feel dumber now.

thanks.

trap speed is not the same as a stock LSJ...trap speed was 13.9 at 102.5 from motor trend...14.0 at 103.6 at edmunds...this car is faster 0-60, faster e.t. in the 1/4, faster trap speed in the 1/4, it handles better, and brakes better...i dont know that much about the stage kits for the LSJ, but from what i have read, this performs better than stage 3 for the LSJ...but right from the factory, with no extra money spent on stage kits, and a full warranty

You read wrong. You must have been on a Honda forum or something. Stage 2 puts the LSJ in the mid-high 13s with a good driver.

Threads like these are sad.

stageII puts you at 240-245hp vs 260hp...the LNF has much better torque than the LSJ, so lets not even get involved there, and they have the same tranny. the LNF would be faster than a stgII LSJ assuming the same driver was in both.....believe me, i love the LSJ....im in the process of supercharging my L61 with an M62, but i know how to read the numbers. Same car, same weight, same transmittion, but more power with a flatter TQ line....theres no way the LSJ is faster... can a stgII LSJ beat a LNF? of course...its a drivers race with a SLIGHT advantage to the LNF, but if they were driven by the same person, the LNF would win....

stageII puts you at 240-245hp vs 260hp...the LNF has much better torque than the LSJ, so lets not even get involved there, and they have the same tranny. the LNF would be faster than a stgII LSJ assuming the same driver was in both.....believe me, i love the LSJ....im in the process of supercharging my L61 with an M62, but i know how to read the numbers. Same car, same weight, same transmittion, but more power with a flatter TQ line....theres no way the LSJ is faster... can a stgII LSJ beat a LNF? of course...its a drivers race with a SLIGHT advantage to the LNF, but if they were driven by the same person, the LNF would win....

amennnnnn

No Fawkin' Way! Reaaallllyyyyy!

this is one of dumbest threads on the planet. is probably the fastest car under 24k worth it?

what pisses me off is that all these threads on here and none of them mention the suspension of the new cobalt ss/tc, which is FAR superior to any other front wheel drive car or any car under 29000. thats the reason im buying the cobalt. the next best handleing front drive is the ms3 and thats a 5 door (aka station wagon). oh yeah and the brembos. if you want to go fast and straight (not front wheel drive for drag racing) buy something else, the 2008 cobalt ss is a drivers car

ummm:wtf: HPTUNERS is already working with a beta version of tuning for the LNF cobalt

Do not rely on hptuners to be the saving grace for the lnf, beta software was released for the solstice gxp a year ago... nothing has changed since then, nothnig was added, we cant even read the wideband. In fact they stopped working on the lnf ecm for the time being, its on the back burner behind a couple other problems. They're priority right now is ford(cha-ching).
Read all about it, especially this post (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=128750&postcount=176) which pretty much speaks for every lnf owner with the hptuner software http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15021

here we go again

lol, this is the same with any car until tuning software is available. u will always be able to go standalone. chill out brotha.

hey man nice car, do u have a sc cobalt. I live in delray beach close to boca we should me up and check each others car :guns:

LNF>LSJ

thread over

Bust out the popcorn for that one fella's lol

Do not rely on hptuners to be the saving grace for the lnf, beta software was released for the solstice gxp a year ago... nothing has changed since then, nothnig was added, we cant even read the wideband. In fact they stopped working on the lnf ecm for the time being, its on the back burner behind a couple other problems. They're priority right now is ford(cha-ching).
Read all about it, especially this post (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=128750&postcount=176) which pretty much speaks for every lnf owner with the hptuner software http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15021
Womp, womp, womp

Do not rely on hptuners to be the saving grace for the lnf, beta software was released for the solstice gxp a year ago... nothing has changed since then, nothnig was added, we cant even read the wideband. In fact they stopped working on the lnf ecm for the time being, its on the back burner behind a couple other problems. They're priority right now is ford(cha-ching).
Read all about it, especially this post (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=128750&postcount=176) which pretty much speaks for every lnf owner with the hptuner software http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15021

Westers has tuning for the GXP/redline. Not sure how indepth they are able to go but they have already tuned a few with good results.

stageII puts you at 240-245hp vs 260hp...the LNF has much better torque than the LSJ, so lets not even get involved there, and they have the same tranny. the LNF would be faster than a stgII LSJ assuming the same driver was in both.....believe me, i love the LSJ....im in the process of supercharging my L61 with an M62, but i know how to read the numbers. Same car, same weight, same transmittion, but more power with a flatter TQ line....theres no way the LSJ is faster... can a stgII LSJ beat a LNF? of course...its a drivers race with a SLIGHT advantage to the LNF, but if they were driven by the same person, the LNF would win....


so a turbo ss will beat an ss/sc stage 2, and you didnt have to pay for a stage kit...or take the chance of some dealerships saying that your warranty has been voided because of modifications made to your vehicle...and the LNF handles better than the LSJ, and has brembos, and better tires...i dont understand how anyone would say this car isnt worth the money...please show me anything better for $21,000

I love my ss/sc, but.... ^^x2

You read wrong. You must have been on a Honda forum or something. Stage 2 puts the LSJ in the mid-high 13s with a good driver.

Threads like these are sad.


ss/sc

stage 1 236 hp
stage 2 245 hp
stage 3 250 hp, 260 hp with 100 octane fuel

so stage 3 has not quite as much hp as the LNF, unless you put in 100 octane...and the same transmission, and the LNF has a better torque curve, but you say that stage 2, with even less hp than stage 3 will beat the LNF...

who is reading wrong?

Lol its funny how eberu 1 going to buy the SS/TC seem's to have the need to bash the S/C cars... It pretty much the same car with diff breaks, and diff motor, and a diff Final Drive....

+

The LNF is 3 years behind on tuning and what not.... Like you guys are gunna get yout SS/TC and piss on SC cars right out the box. Most SC cars have upgrades and blah blah blah.... but its just the sheer #'s racing that throws me for a loop... like it was a handuuu forum or sumin.

THis THread = Fail.

/making sense

Westers has tuning for the GXP/redline. Not sure how indepth they are able to go but they have already tuned a few with good results.

Yes he does and has been geetting great results, 60whp increase on a dyno in some cases, much better than the bsr tune for sure. But people still want to do their own turning, you cant expect someone like westers to make a tune for a bigger turbo without it being in front of him. Thats where hptuners come in, but fails.

so a turbo ss will beat an ss/sc stage 2, and you didnt have to pay for a stage kit...or take the chance of some dealerships saying that your warranty has been voided because of modifications made to your vehicle...and the LNF handles better than the LSJ, and has brembos, and better tires...i dont understand how anyone would say this car isnt worth the money...please show me anything better for $21,000

Forgot the seats and better looking wheels...launch conrol and NLS.

Its a hell of a lot of car for the money. I'm just disapointed they still didn't put a center console in it. I don't know if I can get used to not having something to rest my arm on between shifts.

Why are you guys using magazine numbers to race? Why bench race the car is not even out yet! You also have to remember GM under rated the SS/SC that 260 hp they are rating the turbo cobalt at is at the crank not at the wheels....a stage 2 balt and a turbo ss should be right about even....plus with no tuning solution not going to happen for a while for the ss/tc you guys will stay behind the ss/sc for a while especially the ones that have the TVS superchargers on or turbo kits. I would not buy an ss/tc for anything...direct injection is going to be very hard to tune.

Forgot the seats and better looking wheels...launch conrol and NLS.

Its a hell of a lot of car for the money. I'm just disapointed they still didn't put a center console in it. I don't know if I can get used to not having something to rest my arm on between shifts.


you can put the same armrest that comes in the other cobalts in this...there is a thread on this website, quite a few people have done it. from what i have read, it will cost about $100, the only issue is you must have it in the "up" position to apply the parking brake...doesnt affect your shifting at all when you are driving in the city, and obviously will be hard to live without for highway driving...i have already ordered the parts, and will not be leaving my dealership until they have it installed:twothumbs

keep talkin shit on the blower cars. i enjoy it

ss/sc

stage 1 236 hp
stage 2 245 hp
stage 3 250 hp, 260 hp with 100 octane fuel

so stage 3 has not quite as much hp as the LNF, unless you put in 100 octane...and the same transmission, and the LNF has a better torque curve, but you say that stage 2, with even less hp than stage 3 will beat the LNF...

who is reading wrong?

Until some puts their SS/tc on a dyno no one really knows how GM rated the TC. We all know that the SC's hp rating was a joke at 205. If the lnf is 260 at the wheel then a staged sc is in trouble , but if its 260 at the crank thats a different story.

the have done dyno tests on the HHR SS and they were i do believe reaching 250 torque at the wheels and like 240 hp at the wheels, i remember seeing it but don't quote me. i agree lets just wait tell it hits a dyno. And who cares if it doesn't beat a stage 3 ss/sc the ss/tc is still stock, and hey it is a cobalt and it looks pretty good, i liked the ss/sc if they still made them that way i would have gotten that it is unique, i wanted a new car and the ss/tc was the only option.:cssNET:

so im geussin this kid changed his mind on gettin the ss/tc and decided not to send me the downpipe i paid $130 for off of his ss/sc.

the have done dyno tests on the HHR SS and they were i do believe reaching 250 torque at the wheels and like 240 hp at the wheels, i remember seeing it but don't quote me. i agree lets just wait tell it hits a dyno. And who cares if it doesn't beat a stage 3 ss/sc the ss/tc is still stock, and hey it is a cobalt and it looks pretty good, i liked the ss/sc if they still made them that way i would have gotten that it is unique, i wanted a new car and the ss/tc was the only option.:cssNET:


I'm not going to be disappointed if the lnf is a monster , i think it will be good for the cobalt in general, but prolly not for this website lol.

this is true:bye:

nope definately not worth buying.. i believe the internets

I think the SS T/C has a ton of potential and promise. The ONE thing I'm not so hot on is the price. It's pretty much 23k+ extras. Aside from that, I think it's THE next sports compact. :shrug: I'm looking forward to some good competition with my NSRT-4.

i think its worth it... i have 1

aside from all my opinions about the LNF and Direct Injection, I can't wait to see what people do with them. They are a cobalt and I personally love the style of the cobalt and the aftermarket support. And it's chevy, I've always been a chevy lover.

For me though, I'll still with the ss s/c, the LSJ is so EASY to tune and going turbo on it has already proven BIG numbers.

I'm not even a domestic guy and I can tell you that GM did a good job with the both the SC and the TC. I ride in sherm420's TC all the time and I like the car.

Yeah the T/C is a nice car...Drove my buddy zachs (Prozak) tonight...Overall preformance and everything was great...the only thing i had to get use to is the clutch...its sooo different then any other manuel car ive drove an i thought my S/C clutch was hard to get use to

HPTUNERS will be your friend soon enough

its not that simple

And like i said yes no lift shifts has a usable function for the majority of the car drivers who want to drive a stick faster but really cant. ITs a limiting ffeature for people who can drive a stick well and shift well.

What it boils down to with the original thread creator. Is the car worth it?

If your an average joe wanting a fun quick car to play with on the way to work. Then yeah its prolly worth it.

If your like 99% of the people on this forum who want a fun quick car they can turn into a performance beast, no its not worth it. Its not worth it to buy this car, 23K is a bit over priced for a GM econobox, you can get alot better for the money. Or if you want a car that you can turn into a hobby car its not worth it either.



The no lift shift feature is protecting the drivetrain from idiots that bang shift without lifting. It isn't hard and many people do it regardless of whether or not it is going to destroy your powertrain.

Besides, Krispy has first hand knowledge of this GM stuff and you have your jealous opinion. The no lift shift gives you better up shifting capabilities than any car without, no matter how good the driver is.

Bang shifting can do a similar feat, but synchros wear down and it doesn't use cool gadgets to keep the boost up.

I'm so happy another LSJ guy is trying to shit all over the LNF :thumbsdow