whats better?

the oil cap mobil 1 stuff or royal purple?

i heard royal purple is really good. but personalty i haven't tried it but mobil 1 works perfect for me.

use whatever fits your budget. both are good. there are people that are loyal to their brand that will argue one way or another. mobil one is fine though, and it's alot cheaper.

another one of these threads hey :lol:

I like Penzoil Platinum

I say go with the stuff that wont void the warranty...lol some dealers look at that, but i guess you could always lie and tell them it was whatever.

1. make sure whatever you get is a full synthetic, turbos don't like it any other way

2. I would go w/ a top rated API oil and not less and def. not an oil that isn't API rated

What the manual suggests:

Look for three things:

1. GM4718M : Your vehicle's engine requires a special oil meeting GM Standard GM4718M, such as Mobil 1® or equivalent. Oils meeting this standard may be identified as synthetic. However, not all synthetic oils will meet this GM standard. Use only an oil that meets GM Standard GM4718M.

Notice: Using oils that do not have the GM4718M Standard designation, can cause engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty.

2. SAE 5W-30: SAE 5W-30 is best for the vehicle. These numbers on an oil container show its viscosity, or thickness. Do not use other viscosity oils such as SAE 20W-50.

3. American Petroleum Institute (API) starburst symbol

There is no reason to use anything else

I like Penzoil Platinum

its what I use too

i run royal purple and would rather run it that mobil 1.

There were thousands of dollars done in research out of LS1 owners' pockets on this one. What they came up with was Mobil 1 is barely synthetic. It breaks down really easily compared to most. Royal Purple is good. AMSOIL is great. And LS1 owners even had a cult following of something called German Castrol, which is just Castrol 0w30 that was made in Germany...and for the longest time it was green instead of a gold/brown. But I don't know what 0w30 would do to an ecotec. Royal Purple is fine.

Oh, the German Castrol was thicker than led to believe, it should've been classified as a 5w more than the Mobil 1 5w30 should've been. Just remembered that bit.

amsoil...

There were thousands of dollars done in research out of LS1 owners' pockets on this one. What they came up with was Mobil 1 is barely synthetic. It breaks down really easily compared to most. Royal Purple is good. AMSOIL is great. And LS1 owners even had a cult following of something called German Castrol, which is just Castrol 0w30 that was made in Germany...and for the longest time it was green instead of a gold/brown. But I don't know what 0w30 would do to an ecotec. Royal Purple is fine.

Oh, the German Castrol was thicker than led to believe, it should've been classified as a 5w more than the Mobil 1 5w30 should've been. Just remembered that bit.


Thousands of dollars eh...sounds like nothing compared to what GM spends on lubrication analysis.

Stick with GM spec oil.

is it ok to run 10w 30 in it? i put 10w 30 synthetic in my taurus and it called for 5w 30 ran fine really, i think cause its florida and its hot as hell

Thousands of dollars eh...sounds like nothing compared to what GM spends on lubrication analysis.

Stick with GM spec oil.

LS1 fanatics' own money, not some corporation. There is a reason why they know how quickly Mobil 1 breaks down and what oils have the best shear protection. And they love their cars so much they want to make sure they can do everything for them. :P

Since it is a 0w oil and it doesn't have the cert, don't use it if you are worried about the warranty. But there are many other vehicles(just from googling german castrol) that swear by it, saying it actually offers better protection than most 5w oils(and usually showing off their lab results for proof). Reason I say most is AMSOil..but that one is very unique. You need to submit oil samples to a lab just so they can say how much life is left in it.

As said before, Royal Purple until you are out of warranty. I mean, dealerships even offer RP as an option if you want a $60 oil change. Then you go to some Autozones, checking the backs of Castrol syntec 0w30 bottles for the "Made in Germany". I imagine there is a reason why it doesn't have the cert. But its noteworthy that Mobil 1's own 0w30 is GM certified. That sounds fishy. Perhaps it can meet the certification, but Castrol never submitted it for testing. Same can be said for AMSOil's 0w30.

Best source for this I can think of is http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

There were thousands of dollars done in research out of LS1 owners' pockets on this one. What they came up with was Mobil 1 is barely synthetic. It breaks down really easily compared to most. Royal Purple is good. AMSOIL is great. And LS1 owners even had a cult following of something called German Castrol, which is just Castrol 0w30 that was made in Germany...and for the longest time it was green instead of a gold/brown. But I don't know what 0w30 would do to an ecotec. Royal Purple is fine.

Oh, the German Castrol was thicker than led to believe, it should've been classified as a 5w more than the Mobil 1 5w30 should've been. Just remembered that bit.

that sounds like the biggest load of bullshit ive heard in weeks.

is it ok to run 10w 30 in it? i put 10w 30 synthetic in my taurus and it called for 5w 30 ran fine really, i think cause its florida and its hot as hell

10w30 is good down to -20F, 5w30 is good down to -30F

since you are in Florida you shouldn't be getting that cold at any point, you will be fine

that sounds like the biggest load of bullshit ive heard in weeks.

If science is bullshit, be my guest. Suppose most of us won't be keeping these cars for 10 years anyway.

Mobil 1 is the factory-filled and recommend oil for the McLaren SLR. It's good enough for me.

If science is bullshit, be my guest. Suppose most of us won't be keeping these cars for 10 years anyway.


ive seen no science here. just opinions.
feel free to post these high quality, unbiased test results,
and after your done rebutting the stacks of evidence against you, ill listen.

LS1 fanatics' own money, not some corporation. There is a reason why they know how quickly Mobil 1 breaks down and what oils have the best shear protection. And they love their cars so much they want to make sure they can do everything for them. :P[/URL]

Just because someone is a fanatic/loves their car doesn't mean they are a qualified engineer/chemist. Also, just because a corporation does something doesn't mean its wrong. (In fact its usually the opposite) GM does not want you to buy an oil that has inferior lubrication that will end up with failed engines. Why? Warranty. They want the engine to not cost them a penny more than what it costs to make.

Besides, most people change their oil way too often as is (hint: follow what the computer says, its accurate) and as long as the oil passes GM validation it will be fine to use.

Just because someone is a fanatic/loves their car doesn't mean they are a qualified engineer/chemist. Also, just because a corporation does something doesn't mean its wrong. (In fact its usually the opposite) GM does not want you to buy an oil that has inferior lubrication that will end up with failed engines. Why? Warranty. They want the engine to not cost them a penny more than what it costs to make.

Besides, most people change their oil way too often as is (hint: follow what the computer says, its accurate) and as long as the oil passes GM validation it will be fine to use.

QFT. :cssNET:



Seriously, I love these kids that come on here and post up a bunch of BS and throw down the science card...then they yell at ME for not providing proof and blah blah blah...

I won't be running anything other than Mobil 1 in my car.

ive seen no science here. just opinions.
feel free to post these high quality, unbiased test results,
and after your done rebutting the stacks of evidence against you, ill listen.

There is way too much for me to post. I have given a website for your curiousity.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

or the first two results from google:

http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t512042.html
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=718643

I can't find any charts and stuff after looking for a few minutes b/c the links seem to be bad. But from STi's, SRT-4s ,and 8s to LT1's, LS1's, LS3's, and finally found an Ecotec-a Vue, running on it. 8000 mile intervals, too.

RP ftw!

There is way too much for me to post. I have given a website for your curiousity.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

or the first two results from google:

http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t512042.html
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=718643

I can't find any charts and stuff after looking for a few minutes b/c the links seem to be bad. But from STi's, SRT-4s ,and 8s to LT1's, LS1's, LS3's, and finally found an Ecotec-a Vue, running on it. 8000 mile intervals, too.


none of those links have anything to do with your little experiment
you just went to bobistheoilguy, and tried to palm off the good information there as your own.

wheres the "science"
back up your claims with the evidence you said you had.

Just because someone is a fanatic/loves their car doesn't mean they are a qualified engineer/chemist. Also, just because a corporation does something doesn't mean its wrong. (In fact its usually the opposite) GM does not want you to buy an oil that has inferior lubrication that will end up with failed engines. Why? Warranty. They want the engine to not cost them a penny more than what it costs to make.

Besides, most people change their oil way too often as is (hint: follow what the computer says, its accurate) and as long as the oil passes GM validation it will be fine to use.

Oil is something that wears down the parts over time. You'll definitely see it after warranty, so they aren't concerned at all about that while the fanatics/enthusiasts are. I don't know why or how but when I had my Camaro SS some on LS1tech were calling it a mod. :lol: This is why there is a mile limit on warranties, b/c that engine will feel stress after 150k miles, which some folks do after only 3 years. I'm not one of them, but its just I remember in 2002 when the whole German Castrol investigation began.

Again, if you want to call the GC cult a bunch of idiots, be my guest. But an awful lot of hours have been spent to see what the craze was about. But if you are just so unsure of a 0w30(bearing in mind the previous statement where Mobil 1's 0w30 is certified), then just get your Royal Purple and be content.

none of those links have anything to do with your little experiment
you just went to bobistheoilguy, and tried to palm off the good information there as your own.

wheres the "science"
back up your claims with the evidence you said you had.

Never claimed it as my own. I always said there was a cult following.

From Neo1 at Corvetteforums.com

German Castrol without a doubt. The best 0w-30 on the market other than maybe Liquidcosworth and Mobil 1 Racing oil. Not a fair comparison though being those are true racing oils.

German Castrol is 12.5 cSt @ 100C and HT/HS is 3.6

Amsoil 0w-30 is 10.6 @ 100C and HT/HS is now 3.3

It was a thread about AMS series 2000 vs. GC.

Never claimed it as my own. I always said there was a cult following.


You claimed the little experiment showed that mobil 1 broke down "really easily"....and is "barely synthetic"

so prove it.

There is way too much for me to post. I have given a website for your curiousity.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

.

Bob is my oil guy too. Works over at Autozone I buy my Pennzoil from him......



http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/lightninbalt/lmao.gif sorry couldn't resist love the name of the site

Oil is something that wears down the parts over time. You'll definitely see it after warranty, so they aren't concerned at all about that while the fanatics/enthusiasts are. I don't know why or how but when I had my Camaro SS some on LS1tech were calling it a mod. :lol: This is why there is a mile limit on warranties, b/c that engine will feel stress after 150k miles, which some folks do after only 3 years. I'm not one of them, but its just I remember in 2002 when the whole German Castrol investigation began.

Again, if you want to call the GC cult a bunch of idiots, be my guest. But an awful lot of hours have been spent to see what the craze was about. But if you are just so unsure of a 0w30(bearing in mind the previous statement where Mobil 1's 0w30 is certified), then just get your Royal Purple and be content.

Where did I say I was going to get RP? Nowhere. I also don't see how Mobil 0w30 being certified has ANYTHING to do with any other oil being certified. Lets continue:

-Oil doesn't wear down parts, it prevents it. (I'm sure that was just a misprint on your part)
-You will see oil failures during warranty and you will be able to compare to other oils (you don't think GM tests just one oil, do you?)
-GM has 5yr/100k engine warranty, you can get plenty of engine wear from a shitty oil in 100k miles. A lack of lubrication can kill components in less than an hour, I've seen it many times.

You claimed the little experiment showed that mobil 1 broke down "really easily"....and is "barely synthetic"

so prove it.

Not sure about barely synthetic considering its group, but its barely a 5w30 compared to Redline, Royal Purple, and GC.

Not sure about barely synthetic considering its group, but its barely a 5w30 compared to Redline, Royal Purple, and GC.

Mobil 1 is barely synthetic. It breaks down really easily compared to most.

uh....these are your OWN words....

while your digging for a clue....have yourself a read.
Conclusion by FRR

"Although we've provided criteria to pick and choose an oil, the stand-out to us appears to be AMSOIL, rating well in the viscosity and producing good horsepower.

"With the variety of grades, use this test as a guide but always follow the manufacturers recommendation. But if we were to stick our neck out in the anticipation of the law suits, from the information we gathered specific to the supplied oils in this test, we'd rate the oils in the following order:

#1 AMSOIL
#2 BP Visco 5000
#3 Mobil 1
#4 Mobil 1
#5 Hi-Tec HTO
#6 Shell Helix Ultra
#7 Royal Purple
#8 Castrol R
#9 Castrol SLX
#10 Torco"



http://www.worldsbestoil.ca/dyno-test.php

German Castrol is 12.5 cSt @ 100C and HT/HS is 3.6

Amsoil 0w-30 is 10.6 @ 100C and HT/HS is now 3.3


And do you know what that means/why it is important?

You do realize that there is more to an oil than just viscosity? right?

Pumping viscocity
foaming
phosphorus
sulfur
water
deposits
gelation
volatility
rust rating
material tests for different gasket/sealing materials
piston deposits
valvetrain wear
oil consumption
sludge
varnish
bearing weight loss

Those are some of the factors taken into consideration when determining an oil to use from GMs perspective. So, have your shade-tree engineers tested all of the above?

Must've been using the numpad for my work and couldn't use it right for 5w30, oops.

Secondly, didn't mean to start a flamewar, but if one blindly follows Mobil 1 due to what GM says, then blindly following GC due to what the enthusiasts say is no different.

Not sure about barely synthetic considering its group, but its barely a 5w30 compared to Redline, Royal Purple, and GC.

I believe his arguement is because it is classified as group 3 and not a 4 or 4/5 like the others.

and yet mobil one beat quite a few group 4 oils in testing.

not bad for a "barely synthetic oil" that "breaks down easily"

but if one blindly follows Mobil 1 due to what GM says, then blindly following GC due to what the enthusiasts say is no different.

Actually it is vastly different. Why?

Because GM does a hell of a lot more testing to come to the conclusion that Mobil 1 works.

Its not akin to one guy saying that red wine tastes better and another guy saying white wine tastes better. Mobil 1 has been proven to work long term w/o issue, GC hasn't. That doesn't mean it won't work, just that it hasn't been proven.

You can go with your oil that hasn't been validated, I will stick with what has passed validation.

I believe his arguement is because it is classified as group 3 and not a 4 or 4/5 like the others.

I've read that and thought that people are assuming because a number is higher, that it is better. Kinda odd when people say something isn't synthetic because it came from something natural because really, humans arn't creating synthetic materials from nothing, they are creating them from something natural at some level. Kinda like all food is organic, yet people pay more for organic food.

And do you know what that means/why it is important?

You do realize that there is more to an oil than just viscosity? right?

Pumping viscocity
foaming
phosphorus
sulfur
water
deposits
gelation
volatility
rust rating
material tests for different gasket/sealing materials
piston deposits
valvetrain wear
oil consumption
sludge
varnish
bearing weight loss

Those are some of the factors taken into consideration when determining an oil to use from GMs perspective. So, have your shade-tree engineers tested all of the above?

Sadly I don't make much sense of the figures then their study, and it looked like it was inconclusive. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

I'd really have to dig deep for these since no search is finding them easily. BUT I noticed they keep losing oil in their 5w30 mobil 1 tests.

Ah, found them. Called UOA's. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=3&page=1 Suppose I'll google again later. I need lunch.

Must've been using the numpad for my work and couldn't use it right for 5w30, oops.

Secondly, didn't mean to start a flamewar, but if one blindly follows Mobil 1 due to what GM says, then blindly following GC due to what the enthusiasts say is no different.


You are an idiot. Plain and simple. :lol:

You want to trust a bunch of enthusiasts then be my guest. I'd rather follow the knowledge, experience, and professionalism of paid GM engineers, you know, experts in their field. The same guys that designed and produced your engine...

I am just really sick of you posting your complete bullshit on here...

Yeah... I'll just use my Amsoil....

For one... the car seems to run better (maybe it's just me).
... plus I can do an oil change with Amsoil, cheaper than I can do a Mobil1 change.... love the dealer pricing!!!

I personally think your not going to go wrong with amsoil, RP, or M1.
but i cant stand people who nuthug a certain oil, and try and make up stories that the other oils are worse than putting water in your engine.

its fuckin retarded

Sadly I don't make much sense of the figures then their study, and it looked like it was inconclusive. [/URL]

Yes, because their test procedures are not well defined enough. When GM (or any other make) tests oil it does so under extremely controlled conditions, trying to keep as much constant so their test results actually matter. These guys, while their tests are interesting and entertaining, cannot get the same degree of accuracy as a large company w/ lots of funding that has been in the business of design/building cars for almost 100 years.

You are an idiot. Plain and simple. :lol:

You want to trust a bunch of enthusiasts then be my guest. I'd rather follow the knowledge, experience, and professionalism of paid GM engineers, you know, experts in their field. The same guys that designed and produced your engine...

I am just really sick of you posting your complete bullshit on here...

Bearing in mind who is doing the name calling here...heh. Keep in mind those professionals are the ones who decided to get rid of the Cobalt name for Cruze...and make it based on a Daewoo instead of an Opel, which is questionable to everyone. I think the people who love the cars are more important than those who make the cars, sure.

And again just look up UOA's for the oils in question. If I'm doing all the research while you're doing all the name calling, it really does make a bad impression for CSS.net members.

You don't realize this, but you have been arguing with engineers in this thread. I'm not going to reveal who though...

And again, you are an idiot. :lol:

Interesting comparison between oils as well...I'm sure some of you have seen this site before.

Clicky. (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html)

Yes, because their test procedures are not well defined enough. When GM (or any other make) tests oil it does so under extremely controlled conditions, trying to keep as much constant so their test results actually matter. These guys, while their tests are interesting and entertaining, cannot get the same degree of accuracy as a large company w/ lots of funding that has been in the business of design/building cars for almost 100 years.

Cars, yes. Motors, yes(although the Ecotec is actually Lotus/Opel/GM). Oils....I have never seen a GM branded oil. And you can't just test things in a controlled environment and assume it'll be the same in the real world. For example, this is why there were fuel cell test cars in three cities-to test feasibility.

If you just run a motor in a lab, and its acting like its running hot in a desert with the AC maxed out...it doesn't mean you are actually in a desert. And for the one said running water through the motor...um, sorry, 0w30 is actually oil.

Quickly found this thread about the Mobil 1 shearing quickly. But since I upset everyone by going against the flow and sharing something that no one knows about, I don't think there will be anyone clicking it: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22798360

From Bluesubie:
<<Check Blackstone for a report explanation.

M1 0W30 (<click for pdf ) is one I definitely would not use in a hard driven turbo. With it's low High Temp High Shear and low additive pack, it is designed more for fuel economy.

It's possible that you did get contamination. Si is high but not that bad, and copper is elevated. The oil cooler is copper. If you check bitog, it's becoming a more common occurance of M1 to show high Fe. Yes, low zinc and phosphorous for energy conserving and a cleaner cat.

Flash is low and if bulwnkl looks at this, he'll probably say there's much more fuel than Blackstone states (due to their testing method and the low flashpoint). What air/oil filter and what are your driving conditions? Short trips?

Smart move on the 0W40. It's Mobil's best 30 weight. As I mentioned in a previous post above, the starting viscosity to be a 30 weight is 9.3 cst's. I suppose with Blacktone saying that the "should be" viscosity starts at 8.8 they are expecting it to shear to a 20 grade.

TBN is actually good. Wow, only 3,400 miles? You'll probably be ok on the 0W40, but definitely do a uoa. It's better to see a trend instead of just one report.>>

Patman from LS1tech is also an engineer, and is the one that led up to this debate at LS1tech 6 years ago. And I'm no engineer, but I've never seen so many go from store to store to find it and even buy it at $8/qt. online just because "such and such" said so.

Interesting comparison between oils as well...I'm sure some of you have seen this site before.

Clicky. (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html)

very interesting.
amsoils viscosity not so great long term huh.

blah blah blah

one guy, tested one oilchange, on an uncontrolled test set...


uhhhh, werent you the guy throwing around the word "science" earlier?
wow.

AMSOIL! WHen I hit 1000 miles, im switching every fluid to amsoil and doing the brake and clutch fluid with castrol SRF.

I wouldn't touch the trans fluid without extensive research.

Well you need uncontrolled for an uncontrolled world. Its a bit like saying the GT-R will be the Z06 in every single way when you're just looking at magazines. Sorry to bring that up but thats exactly what this is like now. Nothing would make me more happy than to organize all this information into a wonderful little book for you to read. But since I can't, there is Google.

I'm sure there are some openminded engineers out there with proof s/he'd mail to you in a unmolested format that'd be completely undeniable. But if thats what it takes then I'm not doing it.

dude, there are many many controlled tests of oils, proving that your WRONG....
and you give me an example of 1 guy, on a fuckin car forum, who tested his oil....

and then you try and tell me that thats a more "real" result.

your logic is baffling.

I wouldn't touch the trans fluid without extensive research.

Why not? It's not like the F35 requires anything in particular. I don't think putting some better gear oil in it is gonna hurt;)

Cars, yes. Motors, yes(although the Ecotec is actually Lotus/Opel/GM). Oils....I have never seen a GM branded oil. And you can't just test things in a controlled environment and assume it'll be the same in the real world. For example, this is why there were fuel cell test cars in three cities-to test feasibility.

You don't read very well do you. I said GM TESTS OIL not GM MAKES OIL, you may notice there is a difference.

There are engineering test standards for a reason, you can't have everyone running around, doing different tests under different conditions, and come away knowing how to compare design aspect A vs. design aspect B. You obviously don't have the slightest grasp on what real engineering and testing actually is.

Hints:
1. If you want to compare things you test them under the SAME CONDITIONS to have a direct comparison. This is what needs to be done w/ oils to determine what is actual better. You can't test one @ 200C and the other at 50C and say "well the one at 50C worked so much better, this 200C one sucks".

2. Once you have gone through these standard tests and have picked an oil/component, then you do the other battery of tests, including real world tests, to confirm that your selection was the correct one. You don't just jump out to real world uncontrolled & incomplete testing, thats not engineering, thats guess and check.

Why not? It's not like the F35 requires anything in particular. I don't think putting some better gear oil in it is gonna hurt;)

But thats pretty much changing it JUST to change it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Why not? It's not like the F35 requires anything in particular. I don't think putting some better gear oil in it is gonna hurt;)


Thats what you think...:nono:

"But this is important, Honey, There's someone WRONG on the Internet!"

Damn I'm a glutton for punishment. Grimsta at G20.net:


First up is Royal Purple:

Royal Purple is a "boutique" oil in that it's a Group IV & Group V blend of PAO and ester base stocks. Their consumer line of motor oil is API certified to SL specifications, with the exception of the 20W-50 which is a SJ spec...their XPR racing line is not API/ILSAC certified. In addition, the 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 are rated API energy conserving. I do not recommend you use the XPR line in a street car...it lacks many of the additives you want in a daily driven machine. In this case, "racing" is not better

Royal Purple oils are more slanted toward the hi-performance/racing crowd in general and as a result, the additive pack contains less detergents and anti-oxidants than what you will see in German Castrol or Redline. Unless you do oil analysis, a 5000 mile change interval will keep the oil from degrading to the point where it's not doing it's job....IMO, a 8000 mile OCI would be safe for this oil if city driving is what you primarily do. The filter will need to be changed at the 4000 mile point for an 8K OCI.

Royal Purple's color comes from dye used in the formulation; German Castrol was green a couple of years ago (elves?) for the same reason. All oils (including syn oils) are refined clear...dye is added for marketing. Moly comes in two forms (maybe more)...inorganic MoS2 which must be in a carrier (suspension) to flow and an organic type which is soluble in oil. Royal Purple uses the organic moly as a friction modifier and actually contains less organic moly than Redline does. This type of moly will not clog up your filter.

I would like to point out something you will see on oil data sheets that's fairly common concerning viscosity:

Royal Purple 5W-30
40 deg C - 65.3 centistrokes
100 deg C - 11.0 centistrokes

Royal Purple 10W-30
40 deg C - 70.3 centistrokes
100 deg C - 10.7 centistrokes

The 5W oil is a bit thinner than the 10W at cold temps as expected, but the 5W is actually thicker than the 10W at operating temp. This is due to the friction modifiers used in the oil and illustrates another point: Oil never thickens up when hot, it always thins to the SAE viscosity spec shown in the 2nd number on the API stamp.

Auto and manual transmission oils live a much easier life than motor oil...they do not have to deal with combustion by-products. As a result, most will perform very well. Royal Purple's manual transmission oil is excellent...most syn oils of this type are. Redline is another excellent choice.

Auto tranny oil is actually hydraulic oil. The #1 killer is heat....all of them (DEXRON III spec) will perform well if you have a good cooler. Adding a transmission filter pre-cooler is also a very good idea, as is a temp gauge. Royal Purple, Redline, Castrol, and Valvoline are excellent choices.

Royal Purple 80W-90 and Redline 75W-90 LSD oils work very well in a LSD that's in good shape. Keep in mind, both contain the friction modifiers necessary for the LSD...Redline 75W-90 NS does not have the modifiers. However, if the LSD has a lot of wear, either of these syn LSD oils may cause excessive slip. In this case, the Ford 75W-90 may be a better choice...you will also need the Ford friction modifier.
______________________________
Next up is Castrol SynTec European Formula 0W-30 (aka German Castrol, it must say made in Germany on the back):

It’s API Service Category SL, SJ. It exceeds ACEA A3 requirements and meets ILSAC GF-3/GF-2 emission system capability requirements. This oil far exceeds API Service Category SF, SG requirements.

Here's the data sheet (http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf)

This data sheet is provides minimum info…I’ll add a few pertinent figures:
40 deg C viscosity (from analysis): 72.9 cSt
Velocity Index (from analysis): 166
Pour Point (from Material Safety Sheet): -40 deg F
Flash Point (from Material Safety Sheet): 437 deg F
A basic volatility test revealed: a 9% loss at 4 hours and 17.5% loss at 8 hours at ~340 deg F.

Here’s an oil analysis from another user on a virgin oil sample (in PPM):

Iron..................3
Silicon...............4
Sodium............14
Potassium……....12
Moly................<5
Phosphorus…...903
Zinc.............1157
Calcium.........1941
Magnesium......770

Gas Chromatograph and Fourier Transform Infrared (FTIR) analysis revealed the base stock appears to be a blend of mostly 4 cSt PAO with either 6 cSt or 8 cSt cuts. The oil is comprised of Group IV PAO base stock (plus additives). The above analysis did not show any esters in this oil, but a different, more thorough EI and CI Mass Spectrometer analysis did reveal esters of a type not seen in other oils.

Why would I use this oil? Its very good

- German Castrol is a true synthetic oil…no Group I, II, or III base stock at all. IMO this is important for a turbo car considering the heat produced by the turbo. I did not want any problems keeping my SP61 turbo cool (it’s oil cooled only) and avoid any chance of the oil coking on engine shutdown.
- The oil flows very well cold, getting the oil up to the cams and to the bearing quickly where it’s needed the most. German Castrol is on the thick side for a 0W-30…the 40 deg C and 100 deg C (operating temp) cSt numbers confirm this.
- At engine operating temperature, this oil gives me excellent pressure at idle (10-15 psi) and at 3000 rpm (45-50 psi)
- The Viscosity Index is high, indicating that this oil will resist viscosity degradation over time. It appears to have few viscosity modifiers as additives…this means the base oil itself handles the rated viscosity range very well. It also means a higher percentage of actual oil vs additives.
- The oil has low volatility and a high flash point, indicating consumption from oil evaporation will be minimal. This is typical for synthetic oils.
- German Castrol has an excellent additive pack. Well formulated detergents and anti-wear additives. My only wish is that it had a bit more moly
- Not scientific, but my valve train is quieter running this oil…definite difference from Mobil 1 5W-30 and Amsoil 0W-30 I’ve tried. It’s quite possible the thicker nature of the German Castrol is the reason.

I also run a quart of 100% ester based oil (VP Racing RS530…another excellent oil) as a seal conditioner. The ester helps to keep the seals soft and keep the motor clean. This is probably not necessary due to the formulation of German Castrol, but it sure won’t hurt either

German Castrol can run at an 8,000 mile change interval…a PAO base stock oil will easily go this long. Based on other results others have seen with this oil doing the same thing, it should last until the 12-15,000 mile range.

The only place I know of in the US to get the German Castrol is at AutoZone…you may have to ask for it or special order it. It only comes in a 0W-30…any other Castrol SynTec you see on the shelf is a Group III base stock…it is not a true synthetic oil. In Canada, it’s my understanding is WalMart and Canadian Tire sell the German Castrol. This oil would be especially good for those cold winters up North.
_____________________________
Next is the regarded as "High and mighty" Mobil 1:

The only reason I'm doing this is 1) Mobil 1 is a very popular oil and 2) Mobil 1 is not entirely what it claims to be.

Mobil 1 HM 10W-30 is API Service Category SL,SJ,CF. It meets ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 requirements. Mobil 1 HM 10W-40 is API Service Category SL,SJ,CF....it does not meet/list ACEA specifications.

Here is the MSDS (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_10W-30.aspx)

Both oils are on par with what you would expect for their given grades. Both have excellent flash points and pour points...the 10W-30 is very good pour point wise, it's good down to -54 deg C. IMO, the 10W-30 would be a great all year oil...there really is no point changing to the 10W-40 for the summer. the 10W-30 will perform very well even during the summer heat. Both oils have a robust additive pack.

Mobil 1 uses Group III + alphaolefins (AN) base oils including polyalphaolefins (PAO)...however, the primary base stock is Group III.


Quote:
In 2006, the results of a gas chromatography test on Mobil 1 5w-30 EP were posted by an industry expert on the popular motor oil discussion website BITOG. It showed the oil to be primarily composed of a less expensive, Group III processed mineral oil. Until this time, Mobil 1 was believed to be a true synthetic, utilizing a Group IV (PAO) base stock. The release of this information has led to a backlash against Exxon Mobil's lubricant products in many automotive communities. Ironically, in 1999, Mobil fought Castrol's change in formulation to a Group III base stock in motor oils being marketed as fully synthetic. Mobil claimed that Castrol was deceiving their customer base, while degrading their products. The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus eventually ruled that Castrol could continue to market their SynTec line as a fully synthetic motor oil. Exxon Mobil currently refuses to comment on the primary base stock of their Mobil 1 series of oils. This has only added further confusion over the exact definition of the term "synthetic oil."

So far, I have not seen any further info on Mobil 1 oils that contradicts the above quote. I have seen this US Patent application by Exxon Mobil:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...DN/20060211581 (I can't relink the patent, no searches lead to "proof")

The cliff notes on this is Exxon wants to patent the process to utilize Group III base stock with AN and PAO modifiers for use as "synthetic" base stock...one would assume this means their Mobil 1 line of oils. Since PAO and AN are rather expensive, the majority of the base stock is very likely to be Group III...by definition not a true synthetic oil. Appears to me they want to sell us oil marketed as a synthetic, at synthetic prices and increase their profit margin....I guess last year's record profit for any US company wasn't good enough

Keep in mind, Group III base stock does not make Mobil 1 a bad oil...it's actually very good. Take a look at the above pics...very clean...no deposits at all. It justs chaffs my tail pipe to pay synthetic prices and get a Group III oil...especially when Exxon will not come clean about it. Pennzoil Platinum is also using a Group III...the company makes no secret about it. In fact, their Platinum line is among the best there is due to the technology behind refining it.
___________________
In short, the German Castrol is a true synthetic and the Mobil 1 is mineral based that claims to be synthetic due to their way of refining it. So the Mobil 1 is fine as long as its treated as a mineral (3k mi) or a semi-synthetic(5k mi). The GC can be used as a synthetic(8k mi). He also mentions his favorite racing oil...which is Nippon Eneos 0w50. But we're talking about 30 so I ignored that bit.

Mobil 1 changed their formula because it gave them no competitive advertising advantage...why spend the extra money when people aren't going to know the difference and they can't gain anything over the competition in their advertising claims...




I will still use it and listen to GM engineers over BITOG...

So....advertising advantage. They're letting the marketing dept. decide what quality oil they use? Explain.

There is a reason why its cheap and Royal Purple, AMSOil, German Castrol, and Redline aren't. People do investigate that.

So....advertising advantage. They're letting the marketing dept. decide what quality oil they use? Explain.

There is a reason why its cheap and Royal Purple, AMSOil, German Castrol, and Redline aren't. People do investigate that.

Marketing and accounting.

Not that many people investigate that. I'm tired from work and want to go home, so this is short and sweet.

It is my understanding that Mobil 1 may have changed their base stock after they lost their lawsuit against Castrol.

Since Castrol could claim synthetic while using a cheaper base stock, it would make sense that Mobil 1 could/would switch to the same base stock as Castrol while still claiming synthetic. It may have made more financial sense to do this and remain number one in synthetic oil sales and still provide a quality, although slightly lower, product. While they could have attempted an ad campaign to show that Castrol really isn't using good base stock...internal studies may have shown that this type of message was lost on Joe consumer. Thus, my above argument.

Basically, 99% of consumers are going to run it and everything will be fine. You guys over on BITOG represent maybe 2% of oil purchasers. I'm making these numbers up, but bear with me.

I'd love to find the synthetic oil market share numbers, but right now...I'm going home...

I wonder if there was a lawsuit that made them step down from producing top tier gasoline, too. I was rather shocked when someone here showed me the list and even non Supermajor companies were making top tier gas...and here they are the largest of the Supermajors and they weren't.

I haven't heard of Castrol using a lower grade since everyone is saying the opposite. But then that lawsuit may have been long before German Castrol made an appearance. I thought the stuff was new in 2002, but guess I'm wrong.

I guess compromise is fine since they got "Mobil 1 recommended" on the oil cap to make Joe Consumer feel comfortable. But the minute they recommend Fram oil filters, this will all start again.

Ah, the "Made in the USA" label on the back of Syntec isn't backed up to be 100% synthetic and the "Made in Germany" is pure synthetic b/c the European OEM specs are more stringent. Thats is why people never say just Syntec, they say specifically German Castrol. Good bit of trivia.

At the end of the day I will still run Mobil 1.

I just stick with Mobil

no need to argue about it

I just stick with Mobil

no need to argue about it

Agreed.. GM says use Mobil 1 for a reason... most likely because its the best oil on the market..

Or because Mobile 1 paid them to recommend it in their vehicles kind of like XM paid them to put the XM radios in most of the cars they make...

I'm also not a big believer that there's much of a differance between one quality oil like Penzoil or Amsoil or Mobile 1 or whatever. Tests can be skewed one way or the other depending how whomever is testing the product wants the outcome to be. I do know that some conventional oils like Quaker State used to have a bad name for having a high wax content in their oils which cause build up and gunk in the motor but I don't believe that to be the case anymore. I think that as long as it meets the minimum requirements of the warranty after that it's a personal preference between the higher quality brands such as those mentioned above...

The manual recommends Mobil 1 5w30.. Plus GM recommends Mobil 1 in all of there high output engines and that is what comes in them from the factory..
I personally would only use Mobil 1...

Chuck as I stated above have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Mobile 1 pays GM to put their oil in all their cars and recommend it's usage? Kind of like XM pays them to put XM ready radios in their cars...

whats better?

the oil cap mobil 1 stuff or royal purple?

I can't find royal purple but I can find mobil 1, syntec, and Q; also whatever pennzoil calls their synthetic. I decided to be a big shot and used Q at one change and it was horrible...mobil 1 is silky smooth, no reason to go with anything else if the cost is the same.

I can't testify on royal purple and any other "non major" oil company...but I'd like to try greddy's synthetic because it might just be good. Motul probably makes some good stuff as well.

ive seen no science here. just opinions.
feel free to post these high quality, unbiased test results,
and after your done rebutting the stacks of evidence against you, ill listen.

http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/TestResults/C5%20Used%20Oil%20Analysis.htm
:cool:
but when was the las time a car has failed because of an oil related issue please guys come on honestly just use mobil 1 save your time money and effort unless you have OCD
dont flame i have:guns:

Agreed.. GM says use Mobil 1 for a reason... most likely because its the best oil on the market..
On the mainstream market. You can't walk into an autozone and buy amsoil or royal purple as far as I know.

They may pay GM.. Im not doubting that.. I am only stating what is recommended... I do know that in every individual study of motor oil, Mobil always does very well.. Tazmanian_Dvl If you do not like Mobil products or question the integrity of the oil then I highly recommend that you use something else.. The Question in hand is between Mobil 1 and Royal purple.. They are both great oils. I would not think that there would be any problems, and you could expect a long engine life with both. I just wouldn't put the cheap stuff in one just to save a few bucks..

So a post on an Amsoil site is unbiased? Yea right!

The only two oils I would use in my car is Penzoil Platinum or Mobile 1. I get the 5 QT jugs from Walmart when I see them on sale and I know I'm getting close to needing an oil change. I can normally get a 5 QT jug from Walmat for like $20 Bucks and A 1 QT bottle for about $5.50 and a filter for like $8 bucks. So the whole oil chane costs me about $30-$35 for good quality full synthetic oil...

On the mainstream market. You can't walk into an autozone and buy amsoil or royal purple as far as I know.

On the east coast I can walk into a Advance Auto parts and have a choose between Mobil 1, Redline, and Royal Purple..

They may pay GM.. Im not doubting that.. I am only stating what is recommended... I do know that in every individual study of motor oil, Mobil always does very well.. Tazmanian_Dvl If you do not like Mobil products or question the integrity of the oil then I highly recommend that you use something else.. The Question in hand is between Mobil 1 and Royal purple.. They are both great oils. I would not think that there would be any problems, and you could expect a long engine life with both. I just wouldn't put the cheap stuff in one just to save a few bucks..

I'm not saying I dislike Mobile 1 or that it's a shit product. I'm just simply stating that among the higher quality oils I don't believe you can go wrong. Penzoil and Mobile 1 are the only two that I personally would use and it all depends what's on sail when I go to get the oil for my oil change...

On the mainstream market. You can't walk into an autozone and buy amsoil or royal purple as far as I know.

Napa carries Royal Purple...

Thats what you think...:nono:

Then please enlighten me. I don't think that putting in a higher quality synthetic fluid in a run of the mill tranny like the F35 is gonna hurt anything, it will probably help. It will help smooth out shifting too. Unless their is something i don't know about the F35...

i can walk to auto zone or advanced auto parts and pick up Royal Purple along with water water and etc..

Chuck as I stated above have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Mobile 1 pays GM to put their oil in all their cars and recommend it's usage? Kind of like XM pays them to put XM ready radios in their cars...

While this may be true. GM wouldn't just throw any ole oil in just because said oil manufacturer was willing to pay. They have a reputation to uphold. This needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship, and I think both parties benefit from this joint project.

Then please enlighten me. I don't think that putting in a higher quality synthetic fluid in a run of the mill tranny like the F35 is gonna hurt anything, it will probably help. It will help smooth out shifting too. Unless their is something i don't know about the F35...

I don't know enough about the F35. I'm just saying do you research. Look carefully at GM's lube specs and make certain you follow thieir guidelines.

In the past I have run RP synchromax in my FWD manual transaxles. Check the specs on the synchromax with what GM recommends. It all depends on what GM recommends.

For my money, I will be leaving the factory fill in for a while.

Is there any performance difference (besides a few tenths of a mile on fuel mileage) between using Mobile 1 5W-30 and 10W-30?

I've heard that the only reason GM uses 5W-30 instead of 10W-30 is to help their CAFE numbers (if it is a few tenths of a mile on every vehicle, this is a huge difference for GM).

While this may be true. GM wouldn't just throw any ole oil in just because said oil manufacturer was willing to pay. They have a reputation to uphold. This needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship, and I think both parties benefit from this joint project.

I agree it would have to be at the very least not detrimental to GM's quality levels. Which is why I said any quality name brand oil that meets their recommended specs should be fairly close to the same. when you start naming names like Mobile 1 and Penzoil and Amsoil those companies aren't going to let another get a large advantage atlest not for any signifigant length of time.

Is there any performance difference (besides a few tenths of a mile on fuel mileage) between using Mobile 1 5W-30 and 10W-30?

I've heard that the only reason GM uses 5W-30 instead of 10W-30 is to help their CAFE numbers (if it is a few tenths of a mile on every vehicle, this is a huge difference for GM).

start up protection & cold performance

start up protection & cold performance

Which has the better start up protection and cold performance?

Chuck as I stated above have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Mobile 1 pays GM to put their oil in all their cars and recommend it's usage? Kind of like XM pays them to put XM ready radios in their cars...

doesnt GM own part of XM? Or am I thinking of Onstar..... I do agree with you in the mobil 1 thing; its a huge marketing tool for mobil cause GM has the Mobil logo on their oil caps and in the owners manual.

doesnt GM own part of XM? Or am I thinking of Onstar..... I do agree with you in the mobil 1 thing; its a huge marketing tool for mobil cause GM has the Mobil logo on their oil caps and in the owners manual.

Onstar. That is their baby. :twothumbs

Which has the better start up protection and cold performance?

5W-30

Just a quick question regarding the oil change process. If I change my oil on my own, will it void my warranty? If not, do I need to keep my receipts?

Keep receipts. It won't void your warranty...

I Personally Like Royal Purple. I have been usin it since my first oil change @ 2000 Miles. The Only problems is its not purple after awhile.

I Personally Like Royal Purple. I have been usin it since my first oil change @ 2000 Miles. The Only problems is its not purple after awhile.

I noticed that also.. I built a 4.3 a couple of years and put Royal Purple in it and after a very short time the oil turned tan/brown.. I was disappointed that it lost its purple color especially in a clean new engine..