I never really thought about it, but lol my mom was saying that it was all the same because you only see one tanker come to fill up, leading her to believe that it is all unleaded. What really happens for them to get premium?

I never really thought about it, but lol my mom was saying that it was all the same because you only see one tanker come to fill up, leading her to believe that it is all unleaded. What really happens for them to get premium?

those tankers have different compartments in them to fill up the stations. or if they are really busy they have a whole tank of 93 and another of 87 come in. midgrade is usually just those 2 mixed together at the pump

Just explain to your mother that each grade of gas is dedicated to a car's performance.

Every car requires a set grade of fuel depending on it's tune.

If you place low grade fuel in a "fast car" it will most likely cause bad things within the engine :)

or just dont bother... mom's won't ever understand lol

i agree with BLAZIN07SS the tankers have more than one output connection on them for the different octane if you watch a gas station normally there should be tanker there every day or every other day to fill the tanks up

All grades of fuel come from the same base unleaded fuel -- even lead was added back in the day. They actually add the additives at different times to up the octane. Years ago they did it when they pumped the base fuel into the tanker -- they added the additives then, but, I haven't been around any tankers lately to know how they are doing it these days.

Just explain to your mother that each grade of gas is dedicated to a car's performance.

Every car requires a set grade of fuel depending on it's tune.

If you place low grade fuel in a "fast car" it will most likely cause un happy things within the engine :)

That's funny cause my dad is always telling me to get mid-grade. He says my car will be fine. He says he read it in consumer reports. I tell him....no. Does anyone here put mid-grade in their car, if so anyone know if it affects it at all other than being a little sluggish?

Thanks guys :twothumbs That's what i would have guessed but i wasn't sure

That's funny cause my dad is always telling me to get mid-grade. He says my car will be fine. He says he read it in consumer reports. I tell him....no. Does anyone here put mid-grade in their car, if so anyone know if it affects it at all other than being a little sluggish?

tell your dad not to be cheap. lol, its actually only like a $3-$4 difference at fill-up. when you run lower octane in your car, it changes the timing maps and is more prone to engine knock

tell your dad not to be cheap. lol, its actually only like a $3-$4 difference at fill-up. when you run lower octane in your car, it changes the timing maps and is more prone to engine knock

DING DING DING :twothumbs

tell your dad not to be cheap. lol, its actually only like a $3-$4 difference at fill-up. when you run lower octane in your car, it changes the timing maps and is more prone to engine knock

Ya, My dads really cheap when it comes to that kind of stuff. he buys the cheapest crap he can find (which around here is like Valero, Arco, Etc) and I buy the good stuff like 76 and Chevron. I do the math every time I fill up and the difference between premium and the lowest grade is anywhere from $1.50 - $3.00. I am aware what lower octane fuel can do to cars I was just curious if anyone actually put mid grade in their SS/SC or SS/TC or even the regular SS and having it cause knock or any other problems so I can shoot it right back at him and tell him to quit bugging me.

Not even that much really, on like 2 bucks! When i was running unleaded i use to have the famous knocking noise, I just started filling up with premium not to long ago so i hope it will get rid of it. but we'll see

Ya, My dads really cheap when it comes to that kind of stuff. he buys the cheapest crap he can find (which around here is like Valero, Arco, Etc) and I buy the good stuff like 76 and Chevron. I do the math every time I fill up and the difference between premium and the lowest grade is anywhere from $1.50 - $3.00. I am aware what lower octane fuel can do to cars I was just curious if anyone actually put mid grade in their SS/SC or SS/TC or even the regular SS and having it cause knock or any other problems so I can shoot it right back at him and tell him to quit bugging me.

i had to put 87 in my car one time because there was no other gas available. car was knocking like a mofo. good thing i had my stage 2 pulley in the car so i could take off my 2.9 and the car was knocking a lot less. car also got 5mpg less than with 93 octane. even with all my mods and a super rich tune, i manage 26mpg city and like 34mpg highway

Just explain to your mother that each grade of gas is dedicated to a car's performance.

Every car requires a set grade of fuel depending on it's tune.

If you place low grade fuel in a "fast car" it will most likely cause bad things within the engine :)

or just dont bother... mom's won't ever understand lol

I agree except "mom's" should be replaced with "women" :lol:

some people never understand

my dad says the same thing. i only put name brand gas in my G5 and hes like its all the same gas it comes from the same truck. like a mobil truck will fill a mobil station then go down the road and fill up a citco station.

my dad says the same thing. i only put name brand gas in my G5 and hes like its all the same gas it comes from the same truck. like a mobil truck will fill a mobil station then go down the road and fill up a citco station.

That is true, however, they are supposed to be adding the additives that make it "the gas station's blend":lol::lol:

We would always get in discussions at work about me getting Premium and the other guys getting Mid-Grade....but like said, once you add it up it's only a few bucks for 10gallons...if that will break you then don't drive. ;)

That's funny cause my dad is always telling me to get mid-grade. He says my car will be fine. He says he read it in consumer reports. I tell him....no. Does anyone here put mid-grade in their car, if so anyone know if it affects it at all other than being a little sluggish?

I've put regular in my car every time except one time...has 4,000 miles...no problems, no knocking...the computer makes changes to retard the knocking...

There was no noticeable performance difference using premium....probably gives you a few HP...not noticeable for normal driving...there is a reason they say premium is RECOMMENDED in our cars...recommended for best performance, but not going to hurt anything...if it was going to hurt the engine, they would REQUIRE it...if it was going to cause a problem, they would not warranty your car...

I agree except "mom's" should be replaced with "women" :lol:

You've obviously never seen what happens when a dealer dipshit puts 87 in a woman's performance car. :lol: Last time I saw this happen, police were called.

93 since day 1... I accidentally put 87 in the car when I was stock (and ended up driving on the highway for about 250 miles with it.. fuck!). Didn't really do anything but make the car feel like a prius. Now that I have a smaller pulley and all that fun stuff I wouldn't even imagine putting 87 in.

Just explain to your mother that each grade of gas is dedicated to a car's performance.

Every car requires a set grade of fuel depending on it's tune.

If you place low grade fuel in a "fast car" it will most likely cause bad things within the engine :)

or just dont bother... mom's won't ever understand lol

:lol:

OP, just have your mom go read up on the definition of "octane rating". They can add as much higher-octane additives whenever they want to bump up the octane rating. It might come in the same tanker but it doesn't come out of the pumps the same. Heck, you can turn 85 into 93 if you want to drop enough Toluene into the mix.

Even 87 knocks on the stock tune. You can get away with 91 at elevations where they sell it as premium, but if you're boosted, I wouldn't even think of running anything less than 93 if you have access to it.

:thumbsdowFlorida has mandated E10 Gasahol and we are now using it -- Up to 10% ethanol. Supposedly it is a higher octane fuel too.....:lol:

I once talked to a driver for Shell about this. He said the octane ratings given on the pump are the minimum. Working for a small distributor, he saw a lot of the actual paperwork from test figures, etc.

He told me the 89 octane normally tested at 90-91 octane, and the 91 normally tested at 91-92. After all, they have to at least meet the minimum so they figure it's safer to go a little higher. He didn't mention the results on the 87 though. His main goal of telling me this was basically the "premium" isn't much better than the middle grade, so I shouldn't waste my money.

:thumbsdowFlorida has mandated E10 Gasahol and we are now using it -- Up to 10% ethanol. Supposedly it is a higher octane fuel too.....:lol:

it is, ethanol is a performance enhancer. it can be a lower grade fuel like E85, but when you tune for it it is like running race gas.

the evos run 1000cc injectors with a walbro 255lph fuel pump tuned for E85, it's like running 105 octane if i remember correctly. u just get way less MPGs with it.

OP, just have your mom go read up on the definition of "octane rating". They can add as much higher-octane additives whenever they want to bump up the octane rating. It might come in the same tanker but it doesn't come out of the pumps the same. Heck, you can turn 85 into 93 if you want to drop enough Toluene into the mix.

Even 87 knocks on the stock tune. You can get away with 91 at elevations where they sell it as premium, but if you're boosted, I wouldn't even think of running anything less than 93 if you have access to it.

I've never seen 93 at a normal station around here. Never realized it was because of elevation (basically sea-level)! :cssNET:

I've never seen 93 at a normal station around here. Never realized it was because of elevation (basically sea-level)! :cssNET:

yea they do the 93 for higher elevations. some of my homies in washington have the 93.

but thats what methanol/ H2O takes care of!

I've read that we should not run E85 in our cars. There is discussion on the E10 but so far they are stating that it is safe in our cars...shouldn't go above 10% ethanol...?

I've read that we should not run E85 in our cars. There is discussion on the E10 but so far they are stating that it is safe in our cars...shouldn't go above 10% ethanol...?

it's because the flow rate of E85 is waaaayyyyy less than that of regular gas. it's y we run 1000cc injectors and depending on the horsepower of the car, 1 or 2 walbro fuel pumps.

i'll be waiting for the day that a cobalt owner can actually run E85, it will make the cars so much better on the track.

problem with GM performance is there isn't really MAP switching capabilities on these cars PCM's. until you can do that then i dont see E85 in any cobalt ever.

it's because the flow rate of E85 is waaaayyyyy less than that of regular gas. it's y we run 1000cc injectors and depending on the horsepower of the car, 1 or 2 walbro fuel pumps.

i'll be waiting for the day that a cobalt owner can actually run E85, it will make the cars so much better on the track.

problem with GM performance is there isn't really MAP switching capabilities on these cars PCM's. until you can do that then i dont see E85 in any cobalt ever.


True...but it's not just the ECM mapping...E85 has too much ethanol and corrodes the insides of the fuel tank, and fuel lines, and deteriorates the rubber in the fuel pump is what the articles are stating,

True...but it's not just the ECM mapping...E85 has too much ethanol and corrodes the insides of the fuel tank, and fuel lines, and deteriorates the rubber in the fuel pump is what the articles are stating,

havent heard anything about that. i know a few highly recognized tuning shops that tune for it and even use it on their own shop race cars. AMS for example.

but for these cars the biggest barrier for running E85 will be the tuning. you dont wanna run it all the time so switching MAPS will be the key in using it. plus E85 is more scarce and more expensive for the less MPGs it gives.

I am a ls and 87 is recomended but since fuel has gone down so drastically I have no problem getting the car used to 89 and occasionally treating it to 93, I know I dont get more power unless I was tuned but milage seems to go up atleast 5 mpg(for 93) and since I drive nearly the same route every weekday I would consider it a reliable test source.

yea they do the 93 for higher elevations. some of my homies in washington have the 93.

Actually higher altitudes DONT require higher octane. If you go to Denver and you go to the shore(FL, NJ, etc) Youll probably only find 91 or 92 in CO, on the East coast you can get 93/94 lamost everywhere.

I've read that we should not run E85 in our cars. There is discussion on the E10 but so far they are stating that it is safe in our cars...shouldn't go above 10% ethanol...?
Correct, no E85 in any ECOTEC except the two new engines(LE8/LE9)

E10 is the new "standard" gasoline in many areas. You can ONLY buy E10 in NJ. Ethanol has been used as an emissions reducing agent(oxygenator, ethanol is 35% oxygen by weight) for several years now since the outlawing of MTBE


True...but it's not just the ECM mapping...E85 has too much ethanol and corrodes the insides of the fuel tank, and fuel lines, and deteriorates the rubber in the fuel pump is what the articles are stating,

Yup, but these days on our engines(well 2008 and on) the only actual "hardware" difference for E85 engines is larger injectors with stainless steel internals, improved intake valve seats, and more durable(higher silicon/chrome) intake valves. Thats it.

it's because the flow rate of E85 is waaaayyyyy less than that of regular gas. it's y we run 1000cc injectors and depending on the horsepower of the car, 1 or 2 walbro fuel pumps.

i'll be waiting for the day that a cobalt owner can actually run E85, it will make the cars so much better on the track.

problem with GM performance is there isn't really MAP switching capabilities on these cars PCM's. until you can do that then i dont see E85 in any cobalt ever.

NO, its because E85 is less powerful than gasoline. Meaning it has less energy per gallon, so you have to burn more of it to do the same work. (gasoline has an average of 114,000 btus, while E85 only has 87,000. its approx 25% less powerful) If a fuel is 25% less powerful, and you need the engine to do the same amount of work, you have burn 25% more.....thats why you use larger injectors.

WTF do you need MAP switching for to run E85?? All you need is injectors and fuel pump capable of supplying the additional fuel volume, engine/fuel system hardware thats resistant to alcohol corrosion, oxygen sensors resolution capable of going down to 9:1 AFR, and the corresponding tune.

I am a ls and 87 is recomended but since fuel has gone down so drastically I have no problem getting the car used to 89 and occasionally treating it to 93, I know I dont get more power unless I was tuned but milage seems to go up atleast 5 mpg(for 93) and since I drive nearly the same route every weekday I would consider it a reliable test source.

Nothing wrong with running higher octane, like you said t can be a "treat" many times gas stations dont put the same detergent package in all octane levels of fuel. So while the 87 will meet federal standards they may load up the 93 octane with all the good cleaning agents.

Nothing wrong with running higher octane, like you said t can be a "treat" many times gas stations dont put the same detergent package in all octane levels of fuel. So while the 87 will meet federal standards they may load up the 93 octane with all the good cleaning agents.
Oh I know but most people will bust my balls about how it wont give me horsepower. I just wanted to make it clear I knew it wouldnt without a new map.

havent heard anything about that. i know a few highly recognized tuning shops that tune for it and even use it on their own shop race cars. AMS for example..

Most companys wont warrant a car that is not made for E85 if they use E85. Google the info, it's been out for quite a while now.

GM doesnt warrant ANY fuel related issues. Wrong fuel, wrong octane, contaminated fuel, etc....all not covered by warranty

but not going to hurt anything...if it was going to hurt the engine, they would REQUIRE it...if it was going to cause a problem, they would not warranty your car...

luckily car manufacturers recognize this kind of retardation and impliment low/high octane tables into their tunes :)

good luck with warranty work though if you throw 87 in your SS/TC, beat on it and end of blowing the motor somehow

WTF do you need MAP switching for to run E85?? All you need is injectors and fuel pump capable of supplying the additional fuel volume, engine/fuel system hardware thats resistant to alcohol corrosion, oxygen sensors resolution capable of going down to 9:1 AFR, and the corresponding tune.

the horrible PCMs GM has provided with these horrible cars makes it much harder to tune for anything but regular gas, or a quick tune for some race gas at the track.

map switching gives you the ability to run regular gas for the street and E85 for the track, theres more than a few high end performance shops in the country using MAP switching for track/ street use and it works fine. however i dont see this happening with an ecotec anytime soon either because the 99% of the people driving these cars just dont see a good enough cause to spend this much money on the cobalt platform. which IMO it isnt worth it. lemme know when u find a cobalt platform capable of using MAP switching capabilities.

and your right about the E85, i didnt wanna go that deep into detail about it cuz it doesnt matter in an Ecotec forum. now pat yourself on the back.

Isn't there a member on here that has solely been running E85 for some time now with just a tune?

luckily car manufacturers recognize this kind of retardation and impliment low/high octane tables into their tunes :)

good luck with warranty work though if you throw 87 in your SS/TC, beat on it and end of blowing the motor somehow

It is not any kind of oversight on my part...if they REQUIRED it, I would put it in there...but since they have allowed for any fuel to be used without damage, I will use the cheapest stuff...no sense in putting the good stuff in unless you are going to need the extra 2 HP it provides...IT WILL NOT HURT YOUR CAR! THE COMPUTERS AND THE ENGINEERS THAT DESIGN THESE CARS ARE SMARTER THAN EVERY PERSON ON THIS SITE AND WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BLOW THE ENGINE!

I agree except "mom's" should be replaced with "women" :lol:


whhooooaaa, wait a min.. some of us "women" do understand, give us a little credit! damn! haha :) .. some women, yes, do not understand but theres a few of us out here that do!!!

the horrible PCMs GM has provided with these horrible cars makes it much harder to tune for anything but regular gas, or a quick tune for some race gas at the track..... however i dont see this happening with an ecotec anytime soon either because the 99% of the people driving these cars just dont see a good enough cause to spend this much money on the cobalt platform. which IMO it isnt worth it. lemme know when u find a cobalt platform capable of using MAP switching capabilities.

WTF are you doing here then? And stop capitalizing "MAP". MAP is manifold absolute pressure, and there is no reason or ability to "switch" that. If you mean "map" as in ECM calibration theres no reason to capitalize it.

and your right about the E85, i didnt wanna go that deep into detail about it cuz it doesnt matter in an Ecotec forum. now pat yourself on the back.

If it doesnt matter then wtf did you start posting all the bullshit about it for??? No one asked for you to express your flawed understanding of ethanol. Thanks for letting me know I was right, and that you jsut didnt want to go into "detail", I guess instead of going into detail and offering some information you just chose to post misinformation and see if any of the poor Cobalt owners would catch your mistake, huh?


It is not any kind of oversight on my part...if they REQUIRED it, I would put it in there...but since they have allowed for any fuel to be used without damage, I will use the cheapest stuff...no sense in putting the good stuff in unless you are going to need the extra 2 HP it provides...IT WILL NOT HURT YOUR CAR! THE COMPUTERS AND THE ENGINEERS THAT DESIGN THESE CARS ARE SMARTER THAN EVERY PERSON ON THIS SITE AND WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BLOW THE ENGINE!



2009 Chevrolet Cobalt | Chevrolet Cobalt Owner Manual | Document ID: 2004289
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gasoline Octane
If the vehicle has the 2.0L L4 engine (VIN Code X), use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 91 or higher. You can also use regular unleaded gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher, but the vehicle's acceleration will be reduced, and you might notice an audible knocking noise, commonly referred to as spark knock.

Sure sounds like GM wants you to use Premium in the TC to me........ I'd love to see a dyno run on 87 and a run on 91 or higher and only see a 2hp gain. That would be abosultely f*ckin amazing.

And of course we also come back to another reason 93 is more expensive than 87 isnt solely due to the octane rating, its because MANY stations dont put the same detergent package in the 87 as they do the 93, IE: premium is not only higher octane but also cleaner.

breathe boys nothing to get that upset about.. just gas, if someone wants to hear a knock let 'em knock, all he did was ask a simple question. not for a fight.

I apologize. I should have said the "majority of women I know."

It is not any kind of oversight on my part...if they REQUIRED it, I would put it in there...but since they have allowed for any fuel to be used without damage, I will use the cheapest stuff...no sense in putting the good stuff in unless you are going to need the extra 2 HP it provides...IT WILL NOT HURT YOUR CAR! THE COMPUTERS AND THE ENGINEERS THAT DESIGN THESE CARS ARE SMARTER THAN EVERY PERSON ON THIS SITE AND WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BLOW THE ENGINE!

I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous.

The only reason you "can" run 87 in your car is because it is federally mandated that our cars be able to run on 87.

BTW, you'd actually save money by running 91/93. The price difference between 87 and 93 is 5-10% Which means you'd only need a 1.5-3mpg increase in mileage to make up for the price.

In my old 2.2, I had a timing advance for 93 octane, and the mileage increase from running 93 on advanced timing more than made up for the price of premium.

I apologize. I should have said the "majority of women I know."

haha it's cool just kidding with ya:twothumbs

WTF are you doing here then? And stop capitalizing "MAP". MAP is manifold absolute pressure, and there is no reason or ability to "switch" that. If you mean "map" as in ECM calibration theres no reason to capitalize it.



If it doesnt matter then wtf did you start posting all the bullshit about it for??? No one asked for you to express your flawed understanding of ethanol. Thanks for letting me know I was right, and that you jsut didnt want to go into "detail", I guess instead of going into detail and offering some information you just chose to post misinformation and see if any of the poor Cobalt owners would catch your mistake, huh?


how was it misinformation dickface??? the flowrate of E85 is less than that of regular gas due to the stochemetric fuel ratio and a lower heating value causing it to burn slower. which is the reason you need much bigger injectors and a larger flowing fuel pump and a tune that can handle it but you wouldnt wanna run it for everyday use because of the loss of MPG due to your compression ratio and how your engine is set up for regular gas. now as for your MAP switching, y would u wanna run E85 in a non FFV? it's f-ing retarded. as of now there are so little E85 supporting gas stations it would cost to much for everyday use, which is y MAP switching is ideal. E85 has an octane rating of between 100 and 105 octane which is perfect for non FFV vehicles at the track which would be more than enough cause to have switching capabilities on your PCM to tune for the higher octane and then switch it off on your way home. yes let the LSJ and LNF owners break out the laptop and HPtuners EVERY time they go to the track sweet... just more bullshit to deal with, but not all of them has access to HPtuners, like i said, let me know when a cobalt uses MAP switcing capabilities effectively...

maybe one day someone will hop on this and give the cobalt and IRL owners a cost effective way of having this option on their cars.

BTW maven your 31 years old and driving a modded LS, time to grow up.

Mommas not wrong your wrong! mommas never wrong momma said premium gas is the devil and theres no such thing.

just trying to lighten the moment..

how was it misinformation dickface??? the flowrate of E85 is less than that of regular gas due to the stochemetric fuel ratio and a lower heating value, which is the reaon you need much bigger injectors and a larger flowing fuel pump

Wow how quickly we resort to name calling. The misinformation I was referring to is the same shit you are repeating in this post. That E85 has a lower "flow rate" than gasoline.(I also really love how you throw "stochemetric" in there)

First of all, flow rate isnt something that I have ever heard ANYONE rating gasoline or ethanol or any other fuel in, perhaps you mean viscocity, and even if you do, youre still way off base because there is such a minimal difference in kinematic viscocities between gasoline and E85 that no fuel pump would ever notice. Flow rate is almost strictly used to evaluate pump/injector performance and engine fuel consumption(BSFC) It has nothing to do with the flow properties of the fuel itslef.

I can only guess that you are creating "flow rate" specifications of E85 to help wrap your head around the fact that you need to burn more of it...and since you need to burn more of it you need to supply more of it. If it flowed the same as gas you could use the same fuel pump as gas right, but since you need a bigger pump and injectors it must flow differently......Nope. Its just that any given pump can only transfer so much fluid, and if you need more fluid, youll need a bigger pump eventually.

But lets get back to whats really happening here, we need to burn MORE fuel, the stoichiometric(its even more impressive looking when its spelled correctly) ratio is lower on E85 (approx 9.7: vs 14.7:1 for gas) so we need less air to burn any given amount of fuel(or more fuel to burn a given amount of air, either way.) So we put more fuel into the engine, we burn more fuel, we get less mpgs, we use more fuel per second/minute/hr., etc, etc, etc.....So an E85 engine uses more fuel in a given time period than a gas engine.... now wouldnt that mean that the fuel was flowing faster???

Wait for it.... It would mean the fuel was flowing at a higher rate.
Oh my goodness, so does that mean that an engine running on E85 actually has a higher fuel flow rate than one running on gas???? Yup it sure does. Check any dyno, you will not find an engine that has a lower BSFC(brake specific fuel consumption, rated as lbs of fuel per hour per horsepower) on alcohol than it does on gasoline.

But again its not the flow rate of the fuel itself, its the rate of consumption of the fuel by the engine.

BTW maven your 31 years old and driving a modded LS, time to grow up.

Yeah, youre right, I obviously need to grow up based on my clearly juvenile choice to drive a lightly modified, inexpensive, economical to operate, safe everyday commuter car. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:(was that really the best you could come up with after looking through my profile??)

Wow how quickly we resort to name calling. The misinformation I was referring to is the same shit you are repeating in this post. That E85 has a lower "flow rate" than gasoline.(I also really love how you throw "stochemetric" in there)

First of all, flow rate isnt something that I have ever heard ANYONE rating gasoline or ethanol or any other fuel in, perhaps you mean viscocity, and even if you do, youre still way off base because there is such a minimal difference in kinematic viscocities between gasoline and E85 that no fuel pump would ever notice. Flow rate is almost strictly used to evaluate pump/injector performance and engine fuel consumption(BSFC) It has nothing to do with the flow properties of the fuel itslef.

I can only guess that you are creating "flow rate" specifications of E85 to help wrap your head around the fact that you need to burn more of it...and since you need to burn more of it you need to supply more of it. If it flowed the same as gas you could use the same fuel pump as gas right, but since you need a bigger pump and injectors it must flow differently......Nope. Its just that any given pump can only transfer so much fluid, and if you need more fluid, youll need a bigger pump eventually.

But lets get back to whats really happening here, we need to burn MORE fuel, the stoichiometric(its even more impressive looking when its spelled correctly) ratio is lower on E85 (approx 9.7: vs 14.7:1 for gas) so we need less air to burn any given amount of fuel(or more fuel to burn a given amount of air, either way.) So we put more fuel into the engine, we burn more fuel, we get less mpgs, we use more fuel per second/minute/hr., etc, etc, etc.....So an E85 engine uses more fuel in a given time period than a gas engine.... now wouldnt that mean that the fuel was flowing faster???

Wait for it.... It would mean the fuel was flowing at a higher rate.
Oh my goodness, so does that mean that an engine running on E85 actually has a higher fuel flow rate than one running on gas???? Yup it sure does. Check any dyno, you will not find an engine that has a lower BSFC(brake specific fuel consumption, rated as lbs of fuel per hour per horsepower) on alcohol than it does on gasoline.

But again its not the flow rate of the fuel itself, its the rate of consumption of the fuel by the engine.



Yeah, youre right, I obviously need to grow up based on my clearly juvenile choice to drive a lightly modified, inexpensive, economical to operate, safe everyday commuter car. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


thanks for breakin it down for me, when i was saying the fuel fow rate for e85 is less than that of regular gas, i was infact talking about the rate of cunsumption in our engines. thank you once again for re-iterating what i said, it's like theres a slightly more difficult yet arrogant for no reason echo in this thread.

if it's a commuter car then y mod it? 31 and still rockin his mods in his avatar, that is FAF.

thanks for breakin it down for me, when i was saying the fuel fow rate for e85 is less than that of regular gas, i was infact talking about the rate of cunsumption in our engines. thank you once again for re-iterating what i said, it's like theres a slightly more difficult yet arrogant for no reason echo in this thread.

And yet AGIAN you fail, you were talking about the rate of consumption, I see. So maybe one last time would you care to reiterate how it is that the flow rate/consumption of E85 is lower than gasoline???

if it's a commuter car then y mod it? 31 and still rockin his mods in his avatar, that is FAF.
I modify it because it wasnt exactly what i wanted from the factory. Pretty sure thats why a large portion of people mod their cars, to make it more suit their tastes/needs/desires.

Yup I still rock my mods in my avatar. OH WAIT....No I dont thats my signature.....

If you feel I am too old to show others my car, or find it funny that I share with peole with common interests please say so directly, I find it dificult to understand all of the cool kid acronyms and internet shorthand at my advanced age of 31.

OK, I fixed it for you.

relax guys.

And yet AGIAN you fail, you were talking about the rate of consumption, I see. So maybe one last time would you care to reiterate how it is that the flow rate/consumption of E85 is lower than gasoline???


I modify it because it wasnt exactly what i wanted from the factory. Pretty sure thats why a large portion of people mod their cars, to make it more suit their tastes/needs/desires.

Yup I still rock my mods in my avatar. OH WAIT....No I dont thats my signature.....

If you feel I am too old to show others my car, or find it funny that I share with peole with common interests please say so directly, I find it dificult to understand all of the cool kid acronyms and internet shorthand at my advanced age of 31.

OK, I fixed it for you.

and your still 31 with a cobalt LS the least you can do is buy the better model and mod it seein how it IS more mod friendly. or is the reason you know so much about fuel cuz you work at a gas station at the ripe old age of 31? and all you can afford IS the LS model. congrats pops.

you can read my posts and see that i mentioned the engine and how it needs a higher flow of E85, your just too stingy in your old age to admit that i knew what i was talking about, instead you try to go into detail about E85 in which no one cares. anyone can look anything up on the internet, it doesnt prove your worth all it proves is you can read. now again pat yourself on the back.

What are you trying to do -- start a war?:lol:

Hey.....anybody know anything about E85? Like the flow rate or engine consumption of E85? Do parents know if there's a difference between E85 and premium?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

BTW, I'm more'na half century old and I'm modifying my SS/NA...is that OK? I didn't ask my Mom -- do you think she'll be pissed?:lol::lol::lol:

uh oh did u ask Maven if u could post first? :eek:

and your still 31 with a cobalt LS the least you can do is buy the better model and mod it seein how it IS more mod friendly. or is the reason you know so much about fuel cuz you work at a gas station at the ripe old age of 31? and all you can afford IS the LS model. congrats pops.

you can read my posts and see that i mentioned the engine and how it needs a higher flow of E85, your just too stingy in your old age to admit that i knew what i was talking about, instead you try to go into detail about E85 in which no one cares. anyone can look anything up on the internet, it doesnt prove your worth all it proves is you can read. now again pat yourself on the back.



uh oh did u ask Maven if u could post first? :eek:

Are we having a bad day?:lol:

Are we having a bad day?:lol:

hell no! my day is great!

how was it misinformation dickface???

BTW maven your 31 years old and driving a modded LS, time to grow up.
Wow... isnt that the pot calling the kettle black.
if it's a commuter car then y mod it? 31 and still rockin his mods in his avatar, that is FAF.
Why show your ass about someones car, just because they didnt buy the top model like you? Also you never clarified what the fuck MAP is to you since I am sure you dont mean the MAP sensor because you are obviously an idiot but I dont believe your that bad off.

http://i35.tinypic.com/19s5rm.jpg

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/krail969/SandyVagina.png

It is not any kind of oversight on my part...if they REQUIRED it, I would put it in there...but since they have allowed for any fuel to be used without damage, I will use the cheapest stuff...no sense in putting the good stuff in unless you are going to need the extra 2 HP it provides...IT WILL NOT HURT YOUR CAR! THE COMPUTERS AND THE ENGINEERS THAT DESIGN THESE CARS ARE SMARTER THAN EVERY PERSON ON THIS SITE AND WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BLOW THE ENGINE!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

you've got to be kidding

do you need that extra $2 per fill to put down on the TC?

satisfied with losing a ton of power and getting terrible economy from your new car?

http://i35.tinypic.com/2edppmu.jpg

haha umm. ok then. So we shouldnt mod our cars if there not SS/tc/sc? ok, i'll return all the parts. Thanks for letting me, know, wow, i almost looked like an asshole.

haha umm. ok then. So we shouldnt mod our cars if there not SS/tc/sc? ok, i'll return all the parts. Thanks for letting me, know, wow, i almost looked like an asshole.

all cars should be modded :)


some just like them more..

I did the whole base model build thing last time, its a unique experience and you learn a lot. Its just not for me.

i know, i was just being a smartass. Would we be sitting here on this forum if a bunch of ricers hadnt modded some base integras or civics?

It is not any kind of oversight on my part...if they REQUIRED it, I would put it in there...but since they have allowed for any fuel to be used without damage, I will use the cheapest stuff...no sense in putting the good stuff in unless you are going to need the extra 2 HP it provides...IT WILL NOT HURT YOUR CAR! THE COMPUTERS AND THE ENGINEERS THAT DESIGN THESE CARS ARE SMARTER THAN EVERY PERSON ON THIS SITE AND WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BLOW THE ENGINE!

you're right, it's not required. but you are making less power, getting WORSE MPG'S and possibly knocking unless you drive like an old man. hope you don't see boost too often :lol:

basically any "savings" from using regular is lost because you're getting less mpg's with it. from a money savings standpoint, you're better off running premium and getting your better mileage.

Nothing wrong with running higher octane, like you said t can be a "treat" many times gas stations dont put the same detergent package in all octane levels of fuel. So while the 87 will meet federal standards they may load up the 93 octane with all the good cleaning agents.

eh, not true, just a common misconception. Its not a treat as it wont clean/remove/prevent any engine build up any better than 87, its just a (small) hit to the wallet. Octane rating is only used to tell the consumer how resistive the gasoline is to knock. The higher the octane, the higher the resistance to knock. So putting 93 in a cobalt that calls for 87 is really a waste. It could even lead to some fuel not getting burned, which could cause a headache in the long run. But putting 87 in a cobalt that calls for 93 is no good, the reasons should be clear. Less resistance to knock = more chance of knock.

Well, I guess the treat thing could be true in some cases, such as Shell stations whom use more additives in their V-Power than their regular.

Mnatvyc1223 :thumbsdow seriously why are you trying to make fun of someone for driving a lower model of a car b/c of thir age. just b/c you get older dsn't mean you need to get a better veichle to impress people on how much money you are willing to spend on the better model to prove you dnt work at a shitty job ect. For all you know he could have baught the lower model b/c he has kids and would rather see them eat and have what they need then to spend the money on an ss over an ls and have his kids suffer b/c they dnt have what they need. I mean seriously my boss at work makes a ton more then me and The car he chose to build he baught for $1200 AND I can honestly say no offense to anyone that I haven't seen a car that will touch it on this site except fot the cars in the pics in the garage with area57's car. If you are wondering it is a 240sx he transplanted the motor he brought over from japan when he moved here into it the motor was in a nissan 180 over there but customs wont allow him to bring the 180 in country so he only had the motor. I helped him with the instal and was present when it dynoed in at 1097 hp on the mustang dyno. So just b/c someone chooses to be diffrent dosen't mean they are broke and working at mcdonalds ect. so grow the fuck up.

I mean seriously my boss at work makes a ton more then me and The car he chose to build he baught for $1200 AND I can honestly say no offense to anyone that I haven't seen a car that will touch it on this site except fot the cars in the pics in the garage with area57's car. If you are wondering it is a 240sx he transplanted the motor he brought over from japan when he moved here into it the motor was in a nissan 180 over there but customs wont allow him to bring the 180 in country so he only had the motor. I helped him with the instal and was present when it dynoed in at 1097 hp on the mustang dyno. So just b/c someone chooses to be diffrent dosen't mean they are broke and working at mcdonalds ect. so grow the fuck up.

That's a pretty bold statement. I've been on here for over a year with this car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gw5VG6n0J4

I never really thought about it, but lol my mom was saying that it was all the same because you only see one tanker come to fill up, leading her to believe that it is all unleaded. What really happens for them to get premium?

do a simple test with dear ol mom in the car. put 93 in the car and go WOT on the highway then explain to her that was exhibit A and then go put 87 in the car and go WOT and when the engine goes BOOM! then explain that exhibit B was bad and caused boomage and therefore mom knows the difference. BRILLIANT! :twothumbs

*DO NOT ACTUALLY ATTEMPT THIS*

If I put anything less than 93 in mine she throws a CEL. Was in a spot where I had to put less in. Didn't like it but whatever. Guess she's spoiled :).

hell no! my day is great!

Your a dumb fuck... you just got owned and didn't even realize it... Maven is a fuck of alot smarter then you in almost any aspect of life... He proved you wrong several times, and you just said "thats what i said"...

You are a faggot who only drives an evo because he thinks he looks cool in it... Sure maybe if I wanted to draw cop attention to myself, or have every fucking asshole with a k&N on their car come up to me and rev at a light, or if i wanted teh uber coolest whip in da hood, then yea i would buy an evo.... And are you gonna be driving an evo when your 31, if you are im sure that will get you mad bitches, bc you know the car defines the person...

You lose at life, you should quit

hey does any one rember what detonation is and that is why 91 and up is recomended for these cars, lower octaine ratings have a higher probability of detonation, you may be alright to get out of warrenty or even a little longer but eventually you will find out how it feelt to destroy a pistion

Dude, I had this same fight with my dad...

If the car is optimized for 93, it will run better, last longer, and probably get better gas mileage in the long run because it's DESIGNED for higher octane.

Regardless, riding around with spark knock 24/7 just isn't that great of an idea.

Your a dumb fuck... you just got owned and didn't even realize it... Maven is a fuck of alot smarter then you in almost any aspect of life... He proved you wrong several times, and you just said "thats what i said"...

You are a faggot who only drives an evo because he thinks he looks cool in it... Sure maybe if I wanted to draw cop attention to myself, or have every fucking asshole with a k&N on their car come up to me and rev at a light, or if i wanted teh uber coolest whip in da hood, then yea i would buy an evo.... And are you gonna be driving an evo when your 31, if you are im sure that will get you mad bitches, bc you know the car defines the person...

You lose at life, you should quit
i agree.... what maven was saying made sense to me.

but i have to ask a question.... IF e85 has such a high octane rating... why the hell is it sold as midgrade?

2009 SS owners manual says NO LESS than 91 octane. most premium is 93 at least where i live. i dont know if it does me any good, but i do 93 anyway...it makes me feel better for some reason haha. dumbshit dealer filled me up with 87 when i got it in may. all they know is oh thats a chevy with 4 tires. thats it. i dont want to make anyone cry but the other day i got my oil changed at the dealer Fox Chevrolet in timonium...the salesman in there walks up when i was lookin at the new SS Camaro, and goes so what do you think about the new corvette? i looked over at a Z06 they had and i said its nice, he goes no this one. and yes he was completely serious. :thumbsdow

As Will Smith would say, "Parents just don't understand."

2009 SS owners manual says NO LESS than 91 octane. most premium is 93 at least where i live. i dont know if it does me any good, but i do 93 anyway...it makes me feel better for some reason haha. dumbshit dealer filled me up with 87 when i got it in may. all they know is oh thats a chevy with 4 tires. thats it. i dont want to make anyone cry but the other day i got my oil changed at the dealer Fox Chevrolet in timonium...the salesman in there walks up when i was lookin at the new SS Camaro, and goes so what do you think about the new corvette? i looked over at a Z06 they had and i said its nice, he goes no this one. and yes he was completely serious. :thumbsdow

They tried to tell me my Cobalt had a Honda motor in it. I looked at the guy, laughed and said "In that case, NOT interested."

I never really thought about it, but lol my mom was saying that it was all the same because you only see one tanker come to fill up, leading her to believe that it is all unleaded. What really happens for them to get premium?

you should disassociate yourself from them ;)

Premium is unleaded though....
Unleaded = Without Lead.

So technically,
Deisel, Regular, Plus, Premium
and Jet Fuels are all unleaded.

AvGas, used for aircraft piston engines
DOES contain lead. Most common form of
that is 100ll 100 Octane, Low Lead.

Octane rateing simply (its alot more complicated)
but simply its the fuels abilty to resist detonation.
Detonation is a sudden explosion of the fuel/air
mixture when its compressed.
Deisel and Jet fuels are very low octaine. Mostly because
of how a deisel engine works. (Jet fuel and desial are so similar
they are prety much enterchangable)

-Jonathan

Meh, E85 FTW! Now THAT is a definite fuel you can't just swap around. All the others, if you don't run the car hard, can be used w/o damage to the car untiul you fill up w/ 91 or better next tank.