I would like to know how many of the 4 lug guys (G5 and Ion too..) would be interested in a "Plus 1" brake kit. :) The 4 lug cars have tiny 256mm(10.08") front brakes, and besides SSBC noone offers a bolt on upgrade(SSBC's comes with a new caliper and mounting brackets, I am not fond of extra brackets and not everyone wants to have install hydraulic parts)

I am in the process of developing a 100% bolt-on kit to upgrade to 280mm(11.02") American made rotors and uses no extra brackets or bolts, the kit would utilize your stock calipers, pads and hoses. The only change is the rotor and the caliper mounting bracket.

These would fit inside stock 16" wheels and most aftermarket 15" wheels, just not stock 15's.

The rotors would have EDP coatings on the vent surfaces and the rotor hats(for corrosion prevention and good looks), would be available slotted only, and cryo treatment would be an option.

I would like to know how many of you would be truly interested in this, as well as what you feel a FAIR price is that youd be willing to pay. I dont want to hear $150, But I dont suspect anyone would be interested if it were $800 either(it wouldnt be)

If theres any questions youve got, or any features you feel need to be incorporated let me know. Do you think 11" is too small? I think its perfect size for getting that extra sneaky edge at the AutoX or to bring your brakes up to par with your power with being forcd to replace calipers or buy big heavy(or expensive lightweight) 17" wheels. Am I way off base? let me know. Thanks

I'd be more interested in a rear Drum to disc conversion, not necessarily a big brake kit like SSBC but rather just a stock size conversion for us base model guys.

this sounds like a good idea, and as long as the price is reasonable I'd be interested.

I just got my suspension taken care of and the wife already agreed I can do suspension and brakes before I go to Alaska

so this idea is coming at a good time, I am about to upgrade my brakes

id be intrested, if the price was between 3-400

I think you should include stainless braded lines too

that would be nice i would definitely be interested because ssbc has be messing around and hasnt called me back with an estimate.

I would like to know how many of the 4 lug guys (G5 and Ion too..) would be interested in a "Plus 1" brake kit. :) The 4 lug cars have tiny 256mm(10.08") front brakes, and besides SSBC noone offers a bolt on upgrade(SSBC's comes with a new caliper and mounting brackets, I am not fond of extra brackets and not everyone wants to have install hydraulic parts)

I am in the process of developing a 100% bolt-on kit to upgrade to 280mm(11.02") American made rotors and uses no extra brackets or bolts, the kit would utilize your stock calipers, pads and hoses. The only change is the rotor and the caliper mounting bracket.

These would fit inside stock 16" wheels and most aftermarket 15" wheels, just not stock 15's.

The rotors would have EDP coatings on the vent surfaces and the rotor hats(for corrosion prevention and good looks), would be available slotted only, and cryo treatment would be an option.

I would like to know how many of you would be truly interested in this, as well as what you feel a FAIR price is that youd be willing to pay. I dont want to hear $150, But I dont suspect anyone would be interested if it were $800 either(it wouldnt be)

If theres any questions youve got, or any features you feel need to be incorporated let me know. Do you think 11" is too small? I think its perfect size for getting that extra sneaky edge at the AutoX or to bring your brakes up to par with your power with being forcd to replace calipers or buy big heavy(or expensive lightweight) 17" wheels. Am I way off base? let me know. Thanks

wait what????

i'd be interested if they were priced around the 3-400 range also.. an i would deff be interested in a rear drum to disc converstion too.. im not lookin for a big upgrade for the rear just somethin that'll be better than the drums..

Agreed with Yellow LT COUPE!

any update?

any update?

Update? the thread started after 6pm....calm down. :lol:


Including braided lines and keeping price under $400 will not happen.

wait what????

My kit will not use any additional or aftermarket brackets. SSBC does.

A reasonably priced rear disc kit thats matched in size to the stock master cylinder will be hard. Remember to do a rear disc kit youll need custom rotors, a caliper, a caliper mount, as well as a brake line. Plus theres the issue of the parking brake.

Theres nothing wrong with our drum brakes, if you want better rear brakes you upgrade to stainless hoses and buy better brake shoes.

Keep the feedback coming guys.......

I want this just as much as you do, remember I am not only designing this brake upgrade, I am gonna use use it. I need you to help me help you.

I would be very interested as well if the price is around $300. I'm looking to buy either 16" or 17" wheels eventually. I might go 16" for less weight.

I would be very interested as well if the price is around $300. I'm looking to buy either 16" or 17" wheels eventually. I might go 16" for less weight.

yea im in the same idea, im on 17's right now, so an increase over 24mm woud be nice

interested pending the advantage over powerslot / hawk setup

interested pending the advantage over powerslot / hawk setup

The advantage would be that these are an 11" rotor, whereas Powerslot only offers a stock replacement size of 10". So besides having more mass and being able to handle more heat efficiently youll be getting roughly a 10% increase in brake torque over the stock sized rotors(you could still use Hawk, or EBC or whatever your favorite brand of pad is)

The advantage would be that these are an 11" rotor, whereas Powerslot only offers a stock replacement size of 10". So besides having more mass and being able to handle more heat efficiently youll be getting roughly a 10% increase in brake torque over the stock sized rotors(you could still use Hawk, or EBC or whatever your favorite brand of pad is)

cool thats what i was looking for lol

bedtime bump

what kinda price range would they be around? i know just rotors is gonna be around the 250-300 range.

Maven= smart guy. = dont bother.

I knew this would get some comments Qwik. The key to it is going to be in the supplier of the rotors, if they come in at a price comparable to other high quality direct replacement rotors I think the extra cost of the needed bracket would offer a nice moderate upgrade over just a pad/rotor swap.

If the pricing is off Ive got other plans, involving some of your parts we discussed before and a custom rotor setup.(not as big as yours though, but bigger than this project)

I knew this would get some comments Qwik. The key to it is going to be in the supplier of the rotors, if they come in at a price comparable to other high quality direct replacement rotors I think the extra cost of the needed bracket would offer a nice moderate upgrade over just a pad/rotor swap.

If the pricing is off Ive got other plans, involving some of your parts we discussed before and a custom rotor setup.(not as big as yours though, but bigger than this project)

just go to a wrecker and get malibu rotors, calipers,( LSJ stuff) drill 4 x 100 holes in the rotor face and go massive over simplification but cheap

just go to a wrecker and get malibu rotors, calipers,( LSJ stuff) drill 4 x 100 holes in the rotor face and go massive over simplification but cheap

I dont want to have to run rotor centering rings, Qwik. The 4x100 cars have a smaller hub bore than the 5 lug cars, sodrilling 5 lug rotors out isnt ideal in my mind.

Maybe I am overcritical of the details, but I dont see running a lug centered rotor as a good idea in thelong term.

what other things are u working on as mentioned above?

I dont want to have to run rotor centering rings, Qwik. The 4x100 cars have a smaller hub bore than the 5 lug cars, sodrilling 5 lug rotors out isnt ideal in my mind.

Maybe I am overcritical of the details, but I dont see running a lug centered rotor as a good idea in thelong term.

aw come on! yes over criticial. be practical!:nono: i run centering rings on my large diameter floating pfc rotors with alloy hats as they were made for the Pontiac Grand Am wheel bearings we put on Cobalt race cars and i was too cheap to make new hats...ZERO problems, of course. my next project is LNF rotors and calipers... but not floating...yet....one baby step at a time, the rotors cost 250 each up here...;) oh and i am gonna put some new stock LSJ rotors on my daughters G6 that were drilled and bored out for the race cars, and when the floating rotor was made new rotors got put on the shelf. so centering rings and why not? they pop out if needed to fit new rotors....be practical...save money....go faster with savings

id be interested in a drum conversion and at least a 12" rotor for the front and rear

id be interested in a drum conversion and at least a 12" rotor for the front and rear

Well their website is down right now, but http://www.ssbrakes.com theyve got exactly what you want.

I'd be more interested in a rear Drum to disc conversion, not necessarily a big brake kit like SSBC but rather just a stock size conversion for us base model guys.

x2 forget drum breaks

our cars are not real heavy and we dont have huge meaty tires.

Drums are fine in the back. Upgrading the front break system will make much more of an improvement. and anyways, even the new Silverado has rear drums as do most pick-ups, and dont try to argue that they are real light on the rear wheels and dont need rear discs,(you would be right) because thats what our cars are, heavy up front light in the rear like a pick-up

Just like Maven said before, just buy some new shoes (for the drums) and stainless braded lines. With good rubbers and improved break parts the car will stop just fine,

I like where Maven is going so far with this project, I dont want to buy SSBC's expensive ass kit

wait so what would making the rotors bigger do if the pads are going to be the same size?

wait so what would making the rotors bigger do if the pads are going to be the same size?

simple: brakes need to harness energy so produce heat. the heat has to be dissipated. the best way is simply increase the mass of the rotor. So larger diameter rotor, same pad, more heat dissipated. More torque in brake apply. Try stopping a spinning bike wheel with your hand on a small wheel compared to a big wheel.. (not riding the bike goofy, with it parked upside down!:lol: Of course a bigger pad is good too but these are baby steps here. Bigger pad bigger caliper etc etc. Also a floating rotor means less tendency to warp as heat grows, and alloy center section makes for lighter overall part, less unsprung weight...

Floating rotors would be awesome, but I cant find a 296mm/11.75" x 25mm/1" rotor for under $300/per rotor. :lol:

Wilwood makes some rotors that are very attractively priced, but they are only avail in .81" and 1.25" thicknesses.( I guess in theory a .81" would work with the stock caliper/pads, we'd only be talking about a .12" difference, there SHOULD be enough piston to cover that distance, maybe ill measure today) These also wouldnt be floating, just 2 piece fixed.

wait so what would making the rotors bigger do if the pads are going to be the same size?

Bigger rotor = bigger lever. bigger lever does more work with the same effort.

UPDATE: Things are happening today, by the end of the day I should have some significant news regarding the progress (success/failure)of this project. I am hoping for a test fit tomorrow night or Monday.(no actual testing, just fitment with prototypes)

Well their website is down right now, but http://www.ssbrakes.com theyve got exactly what you want.

i know that. its a bit pricey...but ill end up getting that or whatever someone else makes that has the same stopping power if not more

I'd be more interested in a rear Drum to disc conversion, not necessarily a big brake kit like SSBC but rather just a stock size conversion for us base model guys.

i would be intrested in both. 400 for front would be good if they were crossed drilled. i would definatly buy them especially since im buying new rotors in spring. would you sell them in pairs?

Hey Maven, I read that Wilwood now has an e-brake capable rear disk caliper for our application. I really would prefer a Wilwood over the SSBC, but was waiting to see a real product. Are you even going to mess with the rears or are you just sticking to the fronts?

Floating rotors would be awesome, but I cant find a 296mm/11.75" x 25mm/1" rotor for under $300/per rotor. :lol:

Wilwood makes some rotors that are very attractively priced, but they are only avail in .81" and 1.25" thicknesses.( I guess in theory a .81" would work with the stock caliper/pads, we'd only be talking about a .12" difference, there SHOULD be enough piston to cover that distance, maybe ill measure today) These also wouldnt be floating, just 2 piece fixed.



Bigger rotor = bigger lever. bigger lever does more work with the same effort.

UPDATE: Things are happening today, by the end of the day I should have some significant news regarding the progress (success/failure)of this project. I am hoping for a test fit tomorrow night or Monday.(no actual testing, just fitment with prototypes)

heyPfc rotors 311.28.0054.88 3550626 cobalt upgrade 60 bucks I couldnt believe they are so cheap and such good quality; plus the hat one time expense 125 not anodized....see my gallery for pics it think i posted them (no i didnt so email me you got it)

I would def be interested depending on price...

id like to see something for 250 price price range...

i know that. its a bit pricey...but ill end up getting that or whatever someone else makes that has the same stopping power if not more
Contact Todd at TCE Performance Products

i would be intrested in both. 400 for front would be good if they were crossed drilled. i would definatly buy them especially since im buying new rotors in spring. would you sell them in pairs?
I can tell you now I will NOT be offering crossdrilled rotors with my name on them, ever.
Yes it would be per pair, all parts needed.
Hey Maven, I read that Wilwood now has an e-brake capable rear disk caliper for our application. I really would prefer a Wilwood over the SSBC, but was waiting to see a real product. Are you even going to mess with the rears or are you just sticking to the fronts?
Wilwood has an E-brake caliper, its not application specific, and will require custom mounting brackets, and modified cables. No, I wont be doing rears. When the time comes, Ill just be using GM.


I would def be interested depending on price...

id like to see something for 250 price price range...
I really dont even want to say anything........But it may be doable for this figure :D

Contact Todd at TCE Performance Products


I can tell you now I will NOT be offering crossdrilled rotors with my name on them, ever.
Yes it would be per pair, all parts needed.

Wilwood has an E-brake caliper, its not application specific, and will require custom mounting brackets, and modified cables. No, I wont be doing rears. When the time comes, Ill just be using GM.



I really dont even want to say anything........But it may be doable for this figure :D
SWEET...that is a VERY dooable price and VERY competitive for something like this!!!!

I didnt recieve the box :( I called to see wtf was up, and they told me monday. So, I'll know monday how the parts fit. If they fit okay, Ill get some real versions ASAP.

blast...

Saddest part of all this is that once its all said and done, its likely that whoever buys this will be driving around with it before me..... I cant afford wheels right now, So unless business at the shop picks up, Ill be installing the kit, testing it with borrowed wheels and taking it off :(

Saddest part of all this is that once its all said and done, its likely that whoever buys this will be driving around with it before me..... I cant afford wheels right now, So unless business at the shop picks up, Ill be installing the kit, testing it with borrowed wheels and taking it off :(
ouch...if only i had money lol, will they be selling the test kit at a discount for first person??? :P
cause i has 17" rims...

and am in BAD need of new front rotors and pads hahaha...45k miles and no changes to either and driven pretty hard hahaha...warped rotors and low on paddage

ouch...if only i had money lol, will they be selling the test kit at a discount for first person??? :P
cause i has 17" rims...


There is no "they", its ME.:lol: No there wont be any discounts because there wont be any "test kits" for sale :)

There is no "they", its ME.:lol: No there wont be any discounts because there wont be any "test kits" for sale :)
blast hahaha
let me know how things go

The Wilwood p-brake caliper will price you out of your markets way fast. The caliper is radial mount and costly. Any use of this caliper will net you a $1200 kit price in a blink.

hey maven...

what about using these for a rear?

http://www.saturnmotorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=5_42_44&products_id=447

i know it's slightly off topic

hey maven...

what about using these for a rear?

http://www.saturnmotorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=5_42_44&products_id=447

i know it's slightly off topic

What are you hanging out at the Saturn websites today? :lol: Thats a reasonable price for rears, but I am 99.73% sure that that isnt a direct bolt on for the Balt. Even though they are rare, its seriousl much better to buy an entire used rear axle assembly with brakes and all. Theres not many out there, but that shouldnt matter because Ive never even heard of anyone buying one for that reason except my own. purchase.


UPDATE

Well no news is good news, and I got an email today from the brake supplier I was dealing with for new custom rotors for this upgrade as well as a new product for the SS.
I received this:Hi Brad,
I discussed your need for Cobalt rotors with the team, and we’ve decided to stick with our core group of vehicle makes and not extend beyond that unless the quantities are enough to justify further tooling and production. At this point, our minimum quantity for new production is 300 rotor pairs. When we spoke on the phone, I believe you were looking at purchasing 20 pairs in one shot, so that wouldn’t be enough.

Sorry that we won’t be able to work together. If you have needs for other types of rotors that we do carry, please keep #^R%*#*@^Q in mind.

Best regards,
@&#*$^@^

Yeah that says 300 pairs, they want an initial order of 300 sets, that would be for each of the two rotors I wanted produced.:lol: While I didnt get any firm pricing because I told them they were insane, the quality of the rotors and the features they would have had would have without a doubt cost no less then $100/ea. Thats $100 x 600 for each rotor design......yes $60,000 buy in(for each of the two designs, so $120k)......:lol:l:lol::lol:

The two Asian companies I was dealing with had significantly lower minimum orders, one was 100 kilograms(approx 7 sets) and a $500 design fee, the other was 150kg(11 sets) The major problem with them is just like most companies they wont tell me who elses product they make, understandable, and I wouldnt them telling people they made mine, but that means I have no way of judging their quality because no one wants to cop to using Chinese rotors, let alone tell you who made them:lol: SO that combined with I dont really want to offer a Chinese product....

Heres where I am at. Ive got my caliper brackets, the prototype was very close(well not really it was .020" off, not sure if it was my fault or theirs) SO the caliper brackets are a go as of right now. I am waiting on shipment of a rotor from half way around the world, its someone elses(name brand, well known outside Amercia) rotor that may work with my setup. I am guessing this thing is like 2weeks away, it could be sooner, it could be longer, Ive ordered from these people before, the product was exactly what i wanted and was well priced, it just takes forever and a day to get stuff into the US for some reason.

After I recieve that rotor, it will either work, or it wont,if it does Ill let everyone in on the full details, If it doesnt I have last plan.

What are you hanging out at the Saturn websites today? :lol: Thats a reasonable price for rears, but I am 99.73% sure that that isnt a direct bolt on for the Balt. Even though they are rare, its seriousl much better to buy an entire used rear axle assembly with brakes and all. Theres not many out there, but that shouldnt matter because Ive never even heard of anyone buying one for that reason except my own. purchase.

.

well first off i own an ion and owned an sl1 before hand.. same bolt pattern as base balts and ions.. ;)

i run my sl1 steelies with winters on my ion.. though it wouldn't be a bad idea to look into .. it's not a big brake kit either maybe if there was a full brake upgrade / rear swap using those for the price of like 1200 you could get some nice things going i dont have the time or ingenuity to do anything like that without help :twothumbs if you want to work with me to try it we can i do live decently close to you

ugh i cant believe i'm posting this but

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113063

haha

What are you hanging out at the Saturn websites today? :lol: Thats a reasonable price for rears, but I am 99.73% sure that that isnt a direct bolt on for the Balt. Even though they are rare, its seriousl much better to buy an entire used rear axle assembly with brakes and all. Theres not many out there, but that shouldnt matter because Ive never even heard of anyone buying one for that reason except my own. purchase.


UPDATE

Well no news is good news, and I got an email today from the brake supplier I was dealing with for new custom rotors for this upgrade as well as a new product for the SS.
I received this:

Yeah that says 300 pairs, they want an initial order of 300 sets, that would be for each of the two rotors I wanted produced.:lol: While I didnt get any firm pricing because I told them they were insane, the quality of the rotors and the features they would have had would have without a doubt cost no less then $100/ea. Thats $100 x 600 for each rotor design......yes $60,000 buy in(for each of the two designs, so $120k)......:lol:l:lol::lol:

The two Asian companies I was dealing with had significantly lower minimum orders, one was 100 kilograms(approx 7 sets) and a $500 design fee, the other was 150kg(11 sets) The major problem with them is just like most companies they wont tell me who elses product they make, understandable, and I wouldnt them telling people they made mine, but that means I have no way of judging their quality because no one wants to cop to using Chinese rotors, let alone tell you who made them:lol: SO that combined with I dont really want to offer a Chinese product....

Heres where I am at. Ive got my caliper brackets, the prototype was very close(well not really it was .020" off, not sure if it was my fault or theirs) SO the caliper brackets are a go as of right now. I am waiting on shipment of a rotor from half way around the world, its someone elses(name brand, well known outside Amercia) rotor that may work with my setup. I am guessing this thing is like 2weeks away, it could be sooner, it could be longer, Ive ordered from these people before, the product was exactly what i wanted and was well priced, it just takes forever and a day to get stuff into the US for some reason.

After I recieve that rotor, it will either work, or it wont,if it does Ill let everyone in on the full details, If it doesnt I have last plan.

Maven tsk tsk, you are such a good guy and all that work and 47 posts and you are still screwed....i gotta say that willwood kit for 700 wasnt bad....I refuse to say i told you so coz i didnt ...did I?:lol: malibu rotors, single piston calipers and my extension braket cheap cheap

Maven tsk tsk, you are such a good guy and all that work and 47 posts and you are still screwed....i gotta say that willwood kit for 700 wasnt bad....I refuse to say i told you so coz i didnt ...did I?:lol: malibu rotors, single piston calipers and my extension braket cheap cheap

The Wilwood isnt bad at all, Ive talked to Todd at TCE about it, and just like if I were to use Malibu/SS rotors or even PFCs like you, I'd have to run rotor centering rings, Wilwood doesnt offer a rotor hat that suits the 4lug Balt and works with TCE's current offerings.


I am very hopeful that this next attempt is going to get me the results I am looking for, if it does, I am sure that many guys will be very happy with the end result(cough, bigger brakes than an SS/SC, cough ;))if it doesnt, I'll be bummed, but I will at that point be going GM parts shelf raiding and be forced to run......eek.....centering rings :lol:

You can tell me you told me so then.

The Wilwood isnt bad at all, Ive talked to Todd at TCE about it, and just like if I were to use Malibu/SS rotors or even PFCs like you, I'd have to run rotor centering rings, Wilwood doesnt offer a rotor hat that suits the 4lug Balt and works with TCE's current offerings.


I am very hopeful that this next attempt is going to get me the results I am looking for, if it does, I am sure that many guys will be very happy with the end result(cough, bigger brakes than an SS/SC, cough ;))if it doesnt, I'll be bummed, but I will at that point be going GM parts shelf raiding and be forced to run......eek.....centering rings :lol:

You can tell me you told me so then.

i have some Malibu rotors brand new bored out for grand am wheel bearings that i am gonna put on my daughters G6 with wait for it centering rings. there is zero difference between a hub bearing to size with a centering ring and a hub bearing already to size shall i send you a pic? com'on buddy be smart with your money

i have some Malibu rotors brand new bored out for grand am wheel bearings that i am gonna put on my daughters G6 with wait for it centering rings. there is zero difference between a hub bearing to size with a centering ring and a hub bearing already to size shall i send you a pic? com'on buddy be smart with your money

Yes, please do, you know I love getting pics from your little section of the Great White North.

still following this!

very hopeful, I am hoping to use this if you get something good, I am upgrading my brakes so I hope this or something works

whatever happened to this project?

There is one solution that requires a roughly 1/4" shim and readily available inexpensive rotors, I am unsure if I want to share it because of the need for the proper sized spacer and proper length bolts needed to make it work safely to my satisfaction(OE or better)(bolts are available from any GM parts dept and shims would be cake for any machine shop apprentice to make)

I am hesitant to share the info because it is a very attractive package, you can get bolts for $20, rotors for $80/pair and brackets for $90/pair, so I am sure it would be tried, but it MUST be done with the proper bolts and sized shims, and judging by how many people here reuse all manner of bolts that arent reusable I just see lots of guys "neglecting" to use the bolts, because "$20 for bolts?f*ck that mine are fine" I dont want to be responsible for that in any way.

As far as the no shim, no new bolt version, I need to source a rotor from a european catalog, I just have been busy and had other more pressing issues to take care of, I still want to do it though because I am 99.9% sure it will work with ZERO mods, and I know it will work with minimal filing if necessary

So what about all the aftermarket for honda civics? My only concern would be offset from the rotor face(where the pads clamp) to the hub face. I am guessing your thinking either a V-dub design or BMW e30 body. Since those are the only real 4 lug Euros I can think of off the top of my head.

What kind of performance gain are you hoping to gain with this. (60-0 mph stopping distance) Is the performance gain worth the effort, time, money, and safety issues your dealing with. If you do get a good setup going i would be interested in it.

who out there who is four lug wanna swap for my 5...

who out there who is four lug wanna swap for my 5...

I would, but I have no ABS....your car does.

How is the heat dissapation on the rear drums on our cars? I think that would be one of the only reasons i would put the effor into rear disks.

....?

How is the heat dissapation on the rear drums on our cars? I think that would be one of the only reasons i would put the effor into rear disks.

With a 2.2 its highly unlikey youll overwork the drums. If you remember back to the 1st gen Neons, there was an ACR package, this was the car designed for Showroom Stock SCCA road racing, i came with drums even though the "normal" top of the line Neon had discs...

Well it does seem like they are pretty powerful. Also the body may work just like a giant heatsink.