Not trying to anger everyone, but I feel that's not going to happen on this thread.

Anyhow, I wanted to know why some are insistent that the SS 2.0 is faster than the RL. I'm not trying to start shit, I just want to know. I'm not looking for 'cause I raced one already' or something like that, I want to see facts. They are the same drivetrains, the same suspension, just slightly different interiors and exteriors. Yet, from what I have read and seen some think that because it is a Chevy it's 10x faster. Why is that?

actually I'm pretty sure teh RL is a little bit heavier. the car isn't that much faster but with two good driver the outcome usually goes to the SS

Everything that I have read/seen says the exact opposite. The SS is heavier. Lemme dig a bit for specs.


RL=curb weight 2590 lbs
www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/07/15/203990.html

SS=curb weight 2991 lbs
http://www.modernracer.com/chevroletcobaltsssup.html

I don't look at it like that but it might be because of videos like this.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/cobalt+ss/5/61b674bf-f4ea-4238-9cd0-893952e45557.htm

"04 saturn ion redline (intake, exhaust, header) vs 06 cobalt SS (intake, exhaust) Redline pulls hard in begining everytime then SS makes up with its power and pulls".

The RL has more mods but gets beat every time.

Ah, now that's exactly not what I was looking for. I've never seen a SS at the track run below 15 seconds, but that doesn't mean anything other than I've never seen a good driver.


EDIT:
OMG, and a street race at that. C'mon man I'm looking for hard facts not home made videos of people being morons on public streets.

I don't look at it like that but it might be because of videos like this.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/cobalt+ss/5/61b674bf-f4ea-4238-9cd0-893952e45557.htm

"04 saturn ion redline (intake, exhaust, header) vs 06 cobalt SS (intake, exhaust) Redline pulls hard in begining everytime then SS makes up with its power and pulls".

The RL has more mods but gets beat every time.

The 2006 timing maps, ve tables, and PE curves for both the redline and the cobalt are a good bit more aggresive then then 2005 IRL and CSS, which are also more aggresive then the 2004 IRL.

So an 06 IRL or CSS > 05 IRL or CSS > 04 IRL

Assuming you don't throw HPTuners into the mix and change it all around. Give me an 06 and about 15 minutes with HPT and it will be losing to Aveo's.

2004-2005 Saturn Ion Red Line Coupe

The humble Ion Coupe is one of Saturn's first models to get a performance version under the "Red Line" moniker. Power comes from a supercharged Ecotec 4-cylinder. Styling and handling are also upgraded.

Base price : $19,820 Get a free price quote

Engine : 4 cylinder, supercharged DOHC, front engine FWD
Displacement : 1,998 cc
Valve : 16 valves, 4 valves per cylinder
Transmission : 5-spd manual
Fuel economy : city - unknown
highway - unknown

Suspension : F - Independent MacPherson strut
R - Semi-independent torsion beam
Brakes : F - Solid discs
R - Solid discs

Horsepower : 200 hp @ 6450 rpm
Torque : 200 lb-ft @ 5800 rpm
Redline : 6450 rpm

Top speed : 144 mph
0-60 mph : 6.3 sec.
0-¼ mile : 15.3 sec @ 94.5 mph
60-0 braking distance : 121 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.85 g

Curb Weight : 2960 lbs
Overall length : 185.0 in.
Wheelbase : 103.2 in.
Overall Width : 67.9 in.
Height : 55.0 in.

2005-2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged


The Cobalt is a replacement for the aging Cavalier. The SS Supercharged is the hottest version of this Delta-platformed compact. Powered by a 2.0L supercharged Ecotec four, with a standard five-speed manual.

Base price : $21,430 Get a free price quote

Engine : 4 cylinder, supercharged DOHC, front engine FWD
Displacement : 1,998 cc
Valve : 16 valves, 4 valves per cylinder
Transmission : 5-spd manual
Fuel economy : city - unknown
highway - unknown

Suspension : F - Independent MacPherson strut
R - Semi-independent torsion beam
Brakes : F - Solid discs
R - Solid discs

Horsepower : 205 hp @ 5600 rpm
Torque : 200 lb-ft @ 4400rpm
Redline : unknown

Top speed : 143 mph
0-60 mph : 6.4 sec.
0-¼ mile : 14.9 sec @ 95.5 mph
60-0 braking distance : 121 ft(estimated)
200 ft skidpad : 0.86 g

Curb Weight : 2991 lbs
Overall length : 180.5 in.
Wheelbase : 103.3 in.
Overall Width : 67.9 in.
Height : 55.5 in.

IRL:
Horsepower : 200 hp @ 6450 rpm

CSS:
Horsepower : 205 hp @ 5600 rpm


Show me any dyno of an lsj, modified or stock, where the peak hp is a 5600.

I'm in agreement. It's the same motor and tranny, yet somehow the peak hp's and tq's are different? Also it says the RL is lighter yet the SS is faster in the 1/4? I'm looking for GM's numbers right now.

Are those from a magazine's test results or something?! Because I can tell you it is all bull!

For instance...a RL top speed is 144 and a Cobalt's is 143?!

I find that hard to believe because the RL has smaller wheels thus less area traveled with each revolution from the centerpoint. Cobalts have 18 so find the circumfrance of the two and subtract, and thats how much farther the Cobalt goes with each revolution...why do you think the RL redlines at 7000rpm going 68 and the Cobalt SS redlines ~ 74mph with exactly identical F35 transmissions, gearing and engines?!

there should be no debate in it because its not that much of a difference were it would make a HUGe difference....

there should be no debate in it because its not that much of a difference were it would make a HUGe difference....
That's right. But people on here say how much faster the SS is than the RL. I just want to know why, other than the fact that they own one.

Everything that I have read/seen says the exact opposite. The SS is heavier. Lemme dig a bit for specs.


RL=curb weight 2590 lbs
www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/07/15/203990.html

SS=curb weight 2991 lbs
http://www.modernracer.com/chevroletcobaltsssup.html


I really don't know if one is faster than the other with tunning and mods I think eather of them could be faster. But I do not belive weight is a issue, the cars both weight pretty much the same. I do not think the auto channel is acurate, here are two more well known links to the webpages containing the RL's curbweight.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0405scc_2004_saturn_ion_red_line/

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2005/saturn/ionredline/100488947/specs.html

Look guys everyone's specs are going to be different. This is where the specs I posted came from www.modernracer.com

Who the hell really cares people. This is a stupid thread anyway and should be locked.

Find out on the track. :lock:

The only thing I could think of is the different intake design... maybe a bit more restrictive... I dunno.... I haven't really seen many redlines to judge and the one that tried to run me was stock so it really wasn't fair

Look guys everyone's specs are going to be different. This is where the specs I posted came from www.modernracer.com

Who the hell really cares people. This is a stupid thread anyway and should be locked.

Find out on the track. :lock:


I agree, this is defently a track issue.:guns:
No more magazine racing, just causes one long pointless argument. :lock: :lock: :lock:

Look guys everyone's specs are going to be different. This is where the specs I posted came from www.modernracer.com

Who the hell really cares people. This is a stupid thread anyway and should be locked.

Find out on the track. :lock:

Hm?

Its a friendly debate.

Seriously, we could start talking about people we could ask who may or may not be banned, but we're just hashing out one of those age old questions.

I don't see what the problem is.

BTW, I really have nothing to add. They're pretty close overall.

I dynoed stock at 220 whp (w/ no mods) on a dynojet. We had another '04 RL dyno at 214, and a '06 comp pack (w/lsd) dyno at 214...so the engines are exactly the same.

They aren't asking what is faster between the two so why suggest locking the thread when no one has answered it? This isn't a track debate, this is about some people's perception...

Let me report the key part for ya:

Anyhow, I wanted to know why some are insistent that the SS 2.0 is faster than the RL.

oh and where is andy405...
...we race together all the time, and he can vouch.
We both have intake + Exhaust and are on stock tune.
I beat him by 1/2 - 1 car every time we race...does that mean the RL is faster? ...NO, it means i can drive (a little) better than him.

They are pretty much the same, the main difference are the wheels as fas as performance goes. Here's my weight with a full tank of gas, all factory tools/spare/jack... no driver. I have side curtain airbags and AA system at the time of this weigh in. This is a super accurate scale!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/watts-up/saturn006.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f38/watts-up/saturn003.jpg

They aren't asking what is faster between the two so why suggest locking the thread when no one has answered it? This isn't a track debate, this is about some people's perception...

Let me report the key part for ya:

So you want to have a perception debate??? OK? The guy who started this thread was looking for facts and specs not perception. Like I said, everyone's specs are going to be different even GM's. So settle whatever debates you people have on the track or just keep magazine racing I don't care.

So you want to have a perception debate??? OK? The guy who started this thread was looking for facts and specs not perception. Like I said, everyone's specs are going to be different even GM's. So settle whatever debates you people have on the track or just keep magazine racing I don't care.

No, he wants to know why people think that and what facts they have to back it up with...in other words, he's trying to figure out what makes some Cobalt SS owners are so high a mighty thinking they're so much faster stock for stock and then prove them wrong because there are no facts behind it...geez.

EDIT: Although if you really have facts than I'm sure everyone would like to see them in that case.

yea we are plastic, and dent resistant, and lighter, so we = teh f45t3r!!1! (lol):lol:

You RL guys don't make any freaking sense here. You say Cobalt guys say their cars are faster. You want the Cobalt guys to come up with facts that prove the Cobalt is faster. I show you a video of a Cobalt and a more modified RL racing with the RL loosing every time. You guys blame it on the driver and say you want facts.

I show you facts stating the Cobalt is faster in the 1/4 mile. You guys know that every website you visit will have different facts and specs so that doesn't prove anything.

I say take it out on the track. You guys start talking about the drivers.

So what the heck do you guys want? Do you want to see a magazine or a time slip?
What a magazine says means nothing. It's all about the car and the driver.

What do you guys want? This thread makes no sense. OK great some Cobalts guys think they are faster and some RL guys think they are faster. Again, take it to the track and post the vid. I'm out!

I can tell you that, from a roll, my '04 RL (2.5" pulley, stock intake and exhaust) ran even with a '06 SS/SC with 2.5" pulley, intake, and GMPP exhaust. Both running same exaxt custom (Dan) tune. Mod for mod, tune for tune, an LSJ is still an LSJ in the RL/Cobalt SS/SC since they are so similar in weight.

From a dig or 1/4mi runs, there's too much that can differ (experience behind the wheel, traction mods, tires, etc.) so you can't really look at 1/4mi numbers and say which is faster.

Overall, there are not enough differences between the two to say which is faster, because the driver is the key. There was a stock RL that ran 14.2 in the 1320', but who can say it isnt possible with a SS/SC? I think it is, just have to find a driver that can do it.

This is like comparing a 01 trans am to a 01 camaro Z28. All depends on the driver and the car. Thats IMO though.

IE. My 02 SS Camaro is faster then your 2002 WS6 T/A! Everybody knows that Silverados are faster then a Sierra! Everybody knows a manual LS is faster then a manual LT Cobalt!

A spoiler, different exhaust tip, power windows, 1 inch larger wheel, different facia, seats, floor mats, clear bra, etc... isn't going to make a difference.

A few stickers might though!:lol:

IE. My 02 SS Camaro is faster then your 2002 WS6 T/A! Everybody knows that Silverados are faster then a Sierra! Everybody knows a manual LS is faster then a manual LT Cobalt!:


Sorry, I do ot agree with this. I was looking at the 06 silverados and sierras after my first balt was totaled. The are the EXACT same trucks except for a few trim options that differ. A silverado with the 6.0 would not really be faster than a sierra with a 6.0.:cool:

It's all about the car and the driver
yea i agree, we need to all just listen to what Car & Driver says about the cars. They are the afficionados on cars + drivers. So if they ranked the RL higher than the Slobalt, i believe them. Magazines are always correct. (most of this is in jest, seeing how none of you really kno me...)

A few stickers might though!:lol:

ha ha ha, oh crap, we got a RL guy with a whole list of company names as a roll call on his car on the driver and passanger door...definitely robbed him of HP! ha ha ha

People gave him shit forever because he is 19 and it took him a long time to get his car in the 14s! He's doing better now....we love you Alpha! ;)

Sorry, I do ot agree with this. I was looking at the 06 silverados and sierras after my first balt was totaled. The are the EXACT same trucks except for a few trim options that differ. A silverado with the 6.0 would not really be faster than a sierra with a 6.0.:cool:

Really?! Well at least the Suburbans are faster then the base Yukon XLs!:lol:
(…more sarcasm)

ha ha ha, oh crap, we got a RL guy with a whole list of company names as a roll call on his car on the driver and passanger door...definitely robbed him of HP! ha ha ha

People gave him shit forever because he is 19 and it took him a long time to get his car in the 14s! He's doing better now....we love you Alpha! ;)

lol, you guys suck :lol:

Actually I ran stock 14.7 @ 94 it just took me forever to break 13's but I can't release why until about a week or so.

btw the only reason cobalt guys thinks they are faster is the people that drive them.

This was my 1st performance car but im very grown up and adult about my decisons and my actions, even though sometimes I can act like a 4 yr old, lol. I dont talk shit and I dont go around talking about how my car beats everything alive. If you ask me I'll say exactly what my car can do and what it cant. I drive a saturn and love the fact that I do. I dont "pretend" im something im not and put "redline" everywhere and "supercharged" everywhere cuz guess what its just a name, it doesnt mean crap beside trying to grab credit for something you didnt do. I have stickers on my car just to try to seperate myself from the crowd and when people race me they know exactly who i am and I like that. I think most of the RL guys are exactly like me in the way we work and take care of our cars sub a few guys here and there. While its the exact opposite with cobalt guys, there are some cool guys with cobalts but most of them are "I want a BOV so people can think im cool and I want dual exhaust cuz the SRT has it and yadda yadda yadda" and that lends itself to why the cobalt "must be" faster. Its a chevy and were a saturn, its that simple. Just like one of the guys at my work that thinks that since his 01 cadillac deville has a northstar v8 in it and im a saturn his car would kick my ass. Its all ignorance and everyone learns in time.
:twothumbs

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/sheek360/redblurdyno1.jpg


this is my stock 2006 RL dyno.

Nice stock dyno.......:twothumbs

wow, cool sig!

whose that alphajaguar5 guy? why is he copying me?

whose that alphajaguar5 guy? why is he copying me?

Dumbass. Go find more stickers.... :)

That's right. But people on here say how much faster the SS is than the RL. I just want to know why, other than the fact that they own one.

drop it... it's because their idiots... anytime someone that is not mature enought to actually own a car owns one, they instantly think it's better than anything else... who cares what's faster, they're pretty much the same car...

drop it... it's because their idiots... anytime someone that is not mature enought to actually own a car owns one, they instantly think it's better than anything else... who cares what's faster, they're pretty much the same car...
Thanks. I just wanted to make sure

Hm?

Its a friendly debate.

Seriously, we could start talking about people we could ask who may or may not be banned, but we're just hashing out one of those age old questions.

I don't see what the problem is.

BTW, I really have nothing to add. They're pretty close overall.

+1, I would have to say they are both nice cars. And to each-his-own. All I know is that the SSSC's around Orlando seem to NO have the "driver's mod." I've been up against 3 now and won all. But, I don't think they really understand what they are driving. They probably figured, "hey, it says supercharged and has a big wing. I want one."

Although I am jealous that there are more SSSC in the 12's than the IRL's. :D

LMAO @ the slowbuss.net'ers

I show you facts stating the Cobalt is faster in the 1/4 mile. You guys know that every website you visit will have different facts and specs so that doesn't prove anything.
So you consider the "facts" one video?

Please tell me how a car that has the exact same engine, transmission, and very slim difference in weight is going to make one faster than the other on the 1/4 mile. I'll tell you exactly, it's NOT. It all comes down to the driver. Wait, what am I thinking...that "SS" badge adds 50HP.

dude, im gonna debadge my RL and put just 1 SS badge on there, BAM, 50 extra hp...
...if i put 3 badges, 150!!! w00t....

whose that alphajaguar5 guy? why is he copying me?

Umm its kinda funny that you copied the hell out of my name but why? Am I that cool? lol

Dumbass. Go find more stickers.... :)

Swear to god man, its not me, I dont know the kid although I gotta give props on the name being exactly 1 in every dimension to mine lol

Umm its kinda funny that you copied the hell out of my name but why? Am I that cool? lol
ive never met u ever, i thought u copied me then i saw ur post count lol. still pumas>jaguars

Dumbass. Go find more stickers.... :)
o i will!!!!!!!!!!!!

dude, im gonna debadge my RL and put just 1 SS badge on there, BAM, 50 extra hp...
...if i put 3 badges, 150!!! w00t....
dude put the GT-R badge on there, but dont use it till ure in 2nd!

dude put the GT-R badge on there, but dont use it till ure in 2nd!

Does the R start glowing???

For me I find it funny that not only are there quite a few sssc owners that are convinced that they are faster, well just becuase....but how sure of themselves they are lol. Hell or high water they think they are faster.

Having more after market parts availible for you doesn't make you faster.

And suggesting that we lock this thread is ignorant. Though I know it is protocol to make people afraid to speak their mind over here please remember that no one forced you to read this thread.

all i gotta say is i have yet to lose to a balt. when i was stock i never lost to a stock balt. when i had my intake i wooped a balt who had an intake and stage 1. as modified as i am now i was able to take a balt that had the same mods i do except he had a pulley! what does that tell u? it doesnt tell u wich one is faster, it just means i raced some shitty drivers. the balts i lost too were the KB swapped balt, i stood no chance there bro! i lost to a cobalt who had the 60's, 2.7, custom exhaust, shitty tune and horrible driver, i couldnt get em cuz of the damn power gap between us. The RL does accelerate a bit harder, maybe its the lighter wheels or the lighter car. but the cars are close to each other, its in the driver. But the FACT is 2 cars with identical engines, 1 weighs a bit less. who's faster?

FYI: i gotta rub this in! I got 4 doors and im lighter HA!

all i gotta say is i have yet to lose to a balt. when i was stock i never lost to a stock balt. when i had my intake i wooped a balt who had an intake and stage 1. as modified as i am now i was able to take a balt that had the same mods i do except he had a pulley! what does that tell u? it doesnt tell u wich one is faster, it just means i raced some shitty drivers. the balts i lost too were the KB swapped balt, i stood no chance there bro! i lost to a cobalt who had the 60's, 2.7, custom exhaust, shitty tune and horrible driver, i couldnt get em cuz of the damn power gap between us. The RL does accelerate a bit harder, maybe its the lighter wheels or the lighter car. but the cars are close to each other, its in the driver. But the FACT is 2 cars with identical engines, 1 weighs a bit less. who's faster?

FYI: i gotta rub this in! I got 4 doors and im lighter HA!

Everyone on here thinks that guy is a myth...

Everyone on here thinks that guy is a myth...
lol when i was in the car with him, he raced a stage3+ srt4. it was evident that he never heard of the forums. he was shifting at 6500rpm. no FMHE etc. And damn did he have wheel hop!

^^^man that guy is sweet...i have been waiting for him to sell me one of his adapter plates. I can believe how sh-tty of a driver he is tho...

I have beaten stage 2+ RL's in my stock RL...I have even beaten stage 2 SRT's in my stock RL...its definately in the driver. Car & Driver, FTW!

I beat beat IONs all day in my 2.2L!

My 2.2 Cobalt destroys C6 Z06 Vettes.

OK children..... someone lock this thread please it's getting pretty stupid.

All of this over a couple of tenths of a second. LMFAO!

if anyone is down to race in SoCal...we (SCRLA) are meeting up at Fontana Speedway (in the Inland Empire) on the 28th (next saturday). We can prove how the RL is faster. lol...

Are those from a magazine's test results or something?! Because I can tell you it is all bull!

For instance...a RL top speed is 144 and a Cobalt's is 143?!

I find that hard to believe because the RL has smaller wheels thus less area traveled with each revolution from the centerpoint. Cobalts have 18 so find the circumfrance of the two and subtract, and thats how much farther the Cobalt goes with each revolution...why do you think the RL redlines at 7000rpm going 68 and the Cobalt SS redlines ~ 74mph with exactly identical F35 transmissions, gearing and engines?!


Doesnt work like that. By your logic, 30 inch rims that weigh 100lbs each will make you faster...

It's all about rotational mass. If you have 22's on, but they weigh less than, say, stock 17's, you will be quicker. Unfortunately for people in the aftermarket, bigger rims do not weigh less.

Rims that weigh less will make you faster than heavier ones. Size has nothing to do with it.

OK children..... someone lock this thread please it's getting pretty stupid.

lock lock lock...why are certain people over here so "lock" crazy? If you don't want to read it then don't :cool: