Dual Pass intercooler [Archive]

Cobalt_Supercharged

11-23-2006, 05:09 AM

Your instructions are great, I just recieved the GM kit but it says to run the flow opposite to your instructions.
GM says install the small orifice tubes in the 2 middle holes and the large ones top and bottom, they also are runing the water in the oposite direction, the center port is IN and the top and bottom Ports are OUTS.

The also talk about adding a second surge tank to better purge the air from the system and add capacity using a Saturn Red Line Surge tank, another T and a 0.040 bleed orifice to the other end of the intercooler.
That would explain why they went with this design for the Y fitting.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Y-Connector-84757-P1693C196.aspx
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/images/84757_large.jpg

The extra surge tank and bleed orfice would have made things a world easier. Blown 4-banger spent several hours slowly purged the air by repeatedly starting the IC pump, stoping the pump and adding fluid as needed. I would recommend doing this while you install a new or additional HE just to prevent having to bleed the system twice.

Serpico

11-24-2006, 04:08 PM

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h178/73gmc/Dual%20Pass%20IC%20Mod/pilotholesmall.jpg

is this just a pilot hole ? seems kinda small if its not, wouldnt you want the hole the same diameter of the inside diameter of the aluminum anadized fitting that you are installing?

tcolli17

11-24-2006, 05:22 PM

The parts I used was a 1/2 NPT fitting with a 3/4" hose barb (hard to find). The hole was 1/2 inch, we tapped it, but couldn't get it to seal so we just had it welded. The middle fitting goes up to the filler tube. Oh you also need a T or Y fitting with a 3/4" hose barb on all sides.
Yeah, it is a pilot hole.

chipmonk212121

12-17-2006, 11:41 PM

so how big of a difference do you think this mod makes?

Blown 4-banger

12-17-2006, 11:44 PM

20-30 degree drop in IAT2

chipmonk212121

12-18-2006, 12:40 AM

hmm.... i dont know that much about that.... but that sounds like a lot haha

Ljavy17

12-18-2006, 12:52 AM

deff a lot, for every degree is about a hp!

JANNETTYRACING

12-18-2006, 09:00 AM

deff a lot, for every degree is about a hp!

NO, it is 1 hp for every 11 degrees.

Ljavy17

12-25-2006, 01:51 PM

yeah for every hp is about 11 degrees! I read it wrong. lol

Blown 4-banger

12-26-2006, 12:07 AM

It helps a lot, let me tell you. The longer your WOT the more temp reduction you get.

chipmonk212121

12-26-2006, 12:59 AM

which of course helps reduce knock if i recall correctly!

Blown 4-banger

12-26-2006, 04:15 AM

yep which makes more power

chipmonk212121

12-26-2006, 09:53 AM

...you people are going to kill my bank account.....

2K5SS/SC?

12-26-2006, 10:01 AM

^^^ Cheaper to do it this way, than to buy the $280 end plate for GM. We're actually saving you some serious fundage this way! :twothumbs

BlueSS-supercharged

12-28-2006, 12:26 AM

im sorry im a tard and really cant understand any thing about this mod except drill a whole 1/2 in. and instal a new Y fitting but then what? hook that fitting to the block?

i hate being a noob at this stuff

Blown 4-banger

12-28-2006, 12:29 AM

Buahahaha!!! Noob!?!? You've Been A Member For Over A Year!!!

BlueSS-supercharged

12-28-2006, 12:33 AM

but its like i look at them diagrams and cant understand whats crappenin....is ther an open slot to plug a hose into that new inlet you drill.... or am i missing something

2K5SS/SC?

12-28-2006, 12:45 AM

Blue, read this PDF GM made for it carefully. Let me know if you still have questions, and I'll try and help you out. :twothumbs

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/pdfs/sidekit.pdf

Blown 4-banger

12-28-2006, 12:45 AM

The new fitting in the middle is the outlet, and the stock fitting are inlets.

2K5SS/SC?

12-28-2006, 05:21 AM

^^^ Actually the new fitting is the inlet now, and the other two are outlets that connet at the Y piece to form a single outlet. I need to redo my diagram to make that change.

Cobalt_Supercharged

12-28-2006, 09:54 PM

I also like how they fail to show the 2 bolts under the manifold that require your to remove the IC pump and bracket to access.

Asphalt Assault

12-28-2006, 10:59 PM

[QUOTE=Cobalt_Supercharged]Good point. It won't be too bad compared to that I'm sure. Here is what I think you wanted, let me know if it is not.
http://cobaltss.net/gallery/files/3/6/5/0/CoreFlow.jpg
[QUOTE]
FYI !!!
The cores are setup wrong in this picture. As per GMS3 Instructions, the office plates are to be on the two inner ports. see page 2 for your reference. Flow can be completely stoped if done in correctly.

Cobalt_Supercharged

12-28-2006, 11:11 PM

FYI !!!
The cores are setup wrong in this picture. As per GMS3 Instructions, the office plates are to be on the two inner ports. see page 2 for your reference. Flow can be completely stoped if done in correctly.
According to the GMS3 flow. That was posted before the GMS3 kit was released. The GMS3 uses the middle barb as a coolant inlet and the 2 outers as the coolant outlet. Blown 4-banger used the 2 outers as the inlet and the middle as the outlet. His are flipped correctly for his coolant flow.

Blown 4-banger

12-28-2006, 11:13 PM

Asphalt Assault

12-28-2006, 11:22 PM

I DID NOT DO THE FUCKING GM END PLATE!!! I DID THE MODIFICATION MYSELF AND I USE THE TWO STOCK FITTINGS AS INLETS, AND THE NEW MIDDLE ONE AS THE OUTLET!!! THE CORE ARE FLIPPED PROPERLY FOR COOLANT FLOWING THE WAY I DID IT!!! DON'T FUCKING TELL ME I DID MY OWN MODIFICATION WRONG BECAUSE I DID IT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE GM VERSION!!!one!!!!!!1111one!!!!11!
*panting hardly
Have a nice fucking day!!!
[/RANT]

#1 If you want to bitch then bitch to me directly.

#2 you could have just said calmly I did mine in reverse flow then the gm plate so is works this way. The reference to the GMS3 instructions and your instructions confused me. Thought you were replicating the GMS3 Kit with out a reversal of flow.

#3 I would apologize for this but .....

gilbert

12-28-2006, 11:23 PM

ok question blown 4 banger i have the 2.6 pulley ,60#, C/A he and stock he, methanol inject, and ported housing .do u thinck i need the dual pass ?my iat2 is usually 150-155

Admiral Jedi

12-28-2006, 11:32 PM

ok question blown 4 banger i have the 2.6 pulley ,60#, C/A he and stock he, methanol inject, and ported housing .do u thinck i need the dual pass ?my iat2 is usually 150-155

If I was running the 2.6" pulley, I would do everything I could to cool it down some more.
Colder=better. Always. :twothumbs

gilbert

12-28-2006, 11:37 PM

If I was running the 2.6" pulley, I would do everything I could to cool it down some more.
Colder=better. Always. :twothumbs
yea thats 4 sure i just dont know were to get all the parts here in az i dont want to pay the 300 for it at crate :thumbsdow

Blown 4-banger

12-28-2006, 11:41 PM

You can get most of the parts at harbor fright, the actual fittings can be found on summitracing.com :twothumbs

Blown 4-banger

12-28-2006, 11:43 PM

#1 If you want to bitch then bitch to me directly.

#2 you could have just said calmly I did mine in reverse flow then the gm plate so is works this way. The reference to the GMS3 instructions and your instructions confused me. Thought you were replicating the GMS3 Kit with out a reversal of flow.

#3 I would apologize for this but .....
I apologize for the out burst. I guess I just saw red, after seeing people come on here and post that the diagrams and pictures were wrong, even though they were for MY modification NOT the GM endplate. Sorry again, I kinda had a bad day. Hope we can still be friends :)

gilbert

12-28-2006, 11:45 PM

You can get most of the parts at harbor fright, the actual fittings can be found on summitracing.com :twothumbs
thx man i have one really close to the house i will buy everyting and start tomorrow :cssNET:

Blown 4-banger

12-28-2006, 11:49 PM

BLKblurr06

12-28-2006, 11:52 PM

gilbert

12-28-2006, 11:53 PM

I wouldn't suggest doing it unless your prepared to be without your car for a day or two or 9 :lol:
Make sure you have a way of getting the fitting tig welded on. If you didn't live so far away I'd help you out (you'll need it getting the intake manfold off)
dont scare me like that :lol: the balt is not my every day , but i sure can use ur help if u hapend to b close let me know :twothumbs

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 12:00 AM

Where do you live? IIRC its near speedworld right?

gilbert

12-29-2006, 12:02 AM

Where do you live? IIRC its near speedworld right?
at 105 ave and camelback

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 12:04 AM

:wtf: WOW!!! Thats like 60 miles from where I live!

gilbert

12-29-2006, 12:07 AM

:wtf: WOW!!! Thats like 60 miles from where I live!
:lol: it is f%^&* far dot worry do u helpme a lot just by telling me were to get this stuff ill get it done some how i done everything else myself so far:cssNET: thx

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 12:10 AM

I've done all my own stuff too! I'm gettin ready to rig up a heat exchanger sprayer.

gilbert

12-29-2006, 12:13 AM

I've done all my own stuff too! I'm gettin ready to rig up a heat exchanger sprayer.
its the only way , cool let us know how that ends i may have to do one myself :cool:

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 12:34 AM

its the only way , cool let us know how that ends i may have to do one myself :cool:
Man your just coping every mod I've done so far aren't you! :lol: jk man

gilbert

12-29-2006, 12:39 AM

Man your just coping every mod I've done so far aren't you! :lol: jk man
u know it ,hey if it works for somebody else it works for me 2 :lol: ok man got to go nice talking to u ill post my results on the dual pass by monday( hopefully) laterzz.:twothumbs

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 12:41 AM

Good luck! YOU'LL NEED IT FOR SURE!!!

Cobalt_Supercharged

12-29-2006, 01:06 AM

yeah Blown did it all by himself. :rolleyes:

Honestly I would plan it out ahead of time. Get all the parts together and schedule a time to take the end plate to a shop to be welded. Take the car apart the day before the appointment.

Make sure your fitting are aluminum so they can be welded without conflicts between the metals.

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 01:30 AM

Yeah, of course I did all the work myself.... with the extreme help of Cobalt_Supercharged! I couldn't have done it without you Geroge! :twothumbs

Admiral Jedi

12-29-2006, 01:45 AM

Did you actually record your changes in iat2 temps? Or was that hypothetical?

I don't want to doubt, but I just want to make sure.

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 02:00 AM

The longer you are WOT the greater the temp decrease, because...
1. With the dual pass IAT2 increase slower.
2. With the dual pass, my IAT2 has been over 170 ONE time, and that was pre heatsoaked, and a 20-140 mph run.
3. With the dual pass IAT2 tends to level off around 165, and stock it will keep rising forever.

Cobalt_Supercharged

12-29-2006, 02:05 AM

Here is my guide to doing the dual pass.

1) DISCONECT THE BATTERY and raise the front end of the car high enough for you to easily get under it. I normally leave the battery connected when instructions say to disconect it, but you will be using a wrench right next to the starter and from experience it arcs very well. Ask Blown 4-banger as our friend welded a wrench to Blown's starter.

2) Take off the S/C.

3) Remove the hoses from the IC pump and catch the fluid that drains.

4) Remove the IC pump and entire IC pump mounting bracket.

5) Remove the 2 bolts under the intake manifold. They are just barely above the IC mounting bracket bolts and not shown in the GMS3 instructions.

6) Remove the 7 fastners on the top of the manifold and remove.

7) Drain as much of the coolant from the manifold as possible. This will make the removal of the end plate and cores less messy.

8) Remove the bolts from the endplate and remove. It will take some force to pull it off. Be careful not to drop anything. There are 2 brass washers and 1 o-ring per core.

9) Remove the 2 cores. You can chose which ones you want and flip them. Just remember that the inlet has the small hole, the outlet has the large hole. Like the end plate, the cores are difficult to remove. I suggest going to a local Ace Hardware and getting some rubber jaw covers for your pliers to prevent scoreing them. There is a second set of washers and o-rings on the other side of the cores to look out for. The cores will make a horrible scritching sound as you are pulling them out. Just be gentle not to bend the fins.

10) Replace the cores with the small hole as the inlet for your new flow pattern and the large hole for the outlet.

11) Take the end plate to have the fitting welded in.

12) Replace the end plate and torque the bolts to the specs provided in the GMS3 instructions. (link posted in post #36)

13) Now would be a good time IMO to replace the stock intake manifold gasket with the revised version from GM if you haven't already ( http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Ecotec-Intake-Gasket-12597855-P1723C137.aspx ) and replace the intake manifold. Replace all the upper and lower fastners only hand tight then torque them according to the GMS3 specs.

14) Replace the IC pump mounting bracket and IC pump.

15) Reconnect all the coolant lines making sure the flow is going the proper direction for how you flipped the cores.

16) Refill and bleed the air from the system. I would suggest adding the extra resevior so you have a good place to bleed and extra coolant to prevent heat soak.

17) Replace the S/C and make sure everything is properly torqued and connected.

18) Take the car off the stands and take her for a spin. The real bennefits are the lower temps that allow you to add more timing to your tune whether it be for pump gas or race gas.

Feel free to ask questions if you need.

Cobalt_Supercharged

12-29-2006, 02:13 AM

Yeah, of course I did all the work myself.... with the extreme help of Cobalt_Supercharged! I couldn't have done it without you Geroge! :twothumbs
That's right biatch. :lol: It was a real learning experience. I'm glad I was able to experience it even though I wanted to destroy your car with a baseball bat followed by some C4.:guns:

Admiral Jedi

12-29-2006, 02:22 AM

[QUOTE=Cobalt_Supercharged]
8) Remove the bolts from the endplate and remove. It will take some force to pull it off. Be careful not to drop anything. There are 2 brass washers and 1 o-ring per core./QUOTE]

What is the purpose of the brass washers?

Where are they?

How likely are these to come out when removing the cores?

Sorry for all the questions...:)

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 02:25 AM

That's right biatch. :lol: It was a real learning experience. I'm glad I was able to experience it even though I wanted to destroy your car with a baseball bat followed by some C4.:guns:
Trust me, when you weren't there, that final night while bleeding the system, I was literally inched from smashing the shit out of my car with a 1/2" drive socket wrench.

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 02:26 AM

2K5SS/SC?

12-29-2006, 11:22 AM

gilbert

12-29-2006, 02:25 PM

You can get most of the parts at harbor fright, the actual fittings can be found on summitracing.com :twothumbs

so i went to the store this morning and noting i even ask them for what i need it and they dint know , any idea where else can i found the parts ? i dont wana order them on line .:thumbsdow

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 04:33 PM

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 04:34 PM

I love playing with C4, and blowing shit up. I get to do it regularly too! I love my job that the even Air Force pays me to do! :guns:

How difficult is it to pull out the cores? Any tips or tricks to doing it safely.

I don't get paid for it but I occasionally blow up 2 litre bottles with dry ice, does that count? :lol:

The cores are stuck in there pretty good, just get a firm grip on the end of it, and pull like hell!

gilbert

12-29-2006, 04:47 PM

What parts did you try to get? I was talking about the pipe tap, and 1/2" drill bit. Do you know where the parker store is? Its on Broadway and 35th ST. Thats where I got my fittings for it, they have EVERYTHING!!! Even extra hose which you will need (3/4" heater hose)

well i was looking for the fittings i have all the tools i need , what pipe tap r u talking about ? i found parker store but is closed till the 2nd

Blown 4-banger

12-29-2006, 06:46 PM

Well the pipe tap was to tap threads into the hole you drilled so you could insert the fitting. In the end it didn't work, we had to have it welded, but the threads helped hold it in.

Cobalt_Supercharged

12-29-2006, 08:23 PM

The tap is kinda expensive and I would skip attempting to tap it and go straight to welding it in. There is too little material to successfully tap it IMO. Blown go almost all the fittings from the Parker Store.

Cobalt_Supercharged

12-29-2006, 08:39 PM

What is the purpose of the brass washers?

Where are they?

How likely are these to come out when removing the cores?

Sorry for all the questions...:)

They are used to seal the cores preventing the coolant from entering in the intake manifold and going into your engine.

The both washers go on the end of the core, the large one closest to the fins, then the smaller one, and lastly the o-ring.

gilbert

01-09-2007, 11:37 PM

ok this is what i have http://www.cobaltss.net/forums//vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=2448this is what im goin to do[IMG]http://www.cobaltss.net/forums//vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=2451i have this fiting im goin to cut it like this http://www.cobaltss.net/forums//vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=2450
so i can weld it nice and straigth then im goin to use this big ass bit to drill a pilot hole to the plate http://www.cobaltss.net/forums//vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=2449 am i rigth so far then the rest switch the core as my aplications needs it put everything back and that is it

2K5SS/SC?

01-09-2007, 11:40 PM

^^^ Looks great so far. Can you tell us where you got the parts from, how much, and the part numbers? I plan on doing this myself very soon.

gilbert

01-09-2007, 11:45 PM

well the fitings and the hose i got them from parker store they make lubrication equipment like hydraulick hoses the y conector from crate engine and the bit u can get it anyware :twothumbs

gilbert

01-09-2007, 11:46 PM

if i knew how to make the pictures bigger i would have any body knows how?

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-09-2007, 11:49 PM

That is the exact fitting Blown 4-banger has. Be sure to drill at an angle other wise the fitting will hit the oil canister. Look at this as a reference.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h178/73gmc/Dual%20Pass%20IC%20Mod/installed.jpg

gilbert

01-09-2007, 11:55 PM

gilbert

01-10-2007, 12:00 AM

cuz its hard to see in the pict, i measurit and it fits perfect if u cut all the tread on the fitting ?

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-10-2007, 12:03 AM

I don't know about cutting the threads off. I wasn't there for that. You will havetowait for him to respond.

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-10-2007, 12:06 AM

if i knew how to make the pictures bigger i would have any body knows how?

Click on the image in your vBgarage and it will open a window with a larger image. Right click and get the properties from the larger image.

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums//vbgarage.php?do=getimage&id=2449

gilbert

01-10-2007, 12:16 AM

Click on the image in your vBgarage and it will open a window with a larger image. Right click and get the properties from the larger image.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thx man

Blown 4-banger

01-10-2007, 01:04 AM

No, I didn't cut any threads off. I worked it in until it got in pretty far.

gilbert

01-10-2007, 12:44 PM

No, I didn't cut any threads off. I worked it in until it got in pretty far.
i cut the threads off in an angle to get a nice straigth surface to weld it and it fits pretty nice in there i was wondering in the pict u have the bit seems a lot smaller then 1/2 inch is it ?

Blown 4-banger

01-10-2007, 06:18 PM

Yeah, it was, that was the pilot hole for the big 1/2" bit.
EDIT* Don't forget to use a wire brush or something to take the anodizing off the fitting, other wise the weld won't seal properly

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-10-2007, 08:45 PM

Actually we used a 23/32 bit, which is just under 3/4".

gilbert

01-11-2007, 11:42 AM

Yeah, it was, that was the pilot hole for the big 1/2" bit.
EDIT* Don't forget to use a wire brush or something to take the anodizing off the fitting, other wise the weld won't seal properly
cool yeah i took it to a place and they sand it for a while charge me 10 $ to weld it
i thick is cheep by the way this r my iat2 temps at idle is 115 at 45mph is 80 and it goes down the more i step on it , r this the # u r geting 2 ? also what temp do u see o the gage of the car i usually i see 185 , would like to get those down 2 but dont know how any ideas

gilbert

01-11-2007, 11:47 AM

Actually we used a 23/32 bit, which is just under 3/4".

the place i took it to have it weld they turn it upside down and ported the 1/2 inch hole to a bit more then 3/4 opening of the fiting looks pretty good very easy mod thx guys for ur help:twothumbs

Blown 4-banger

01-11-2007, 07:29 PM

No problem :)

cobaltBlackss

01-11-2007, 08:21 PM

What did you use for an extra resevior, and where did you put it?

Blown 4-banger

01-11-2007, 08:49 PM

didn't use an extra resevior

BlackSS/SC

01-16-2007, 04:17 PM

What did you use for an extra resevior, and where did you put it?

I just finished the dualpass endplate and the extra coolant bottle. I used the Ion Redline's stock coolant bottle and put it on the passenger side and made a couple simple brakets to hold it there on the stock studs that stick up there. Haven't been able to see the difference yet on IATs.... Too much damn snow :thumbsdow

Blown 4-banger

01-16-2007, 07:50 PM

cool yeah i took it to a place and they sand it for a while charge me 10 $ to weld it
i thick is cheep by the way this r my iat2 temps at idle is 115 at 45mph is 80 and it goes down the more i step on it , r this the # u r geting 2 ? also what temp do u see o the gage of the car i usually i see 185 , would like to get those down 2 but dont know how any ideas

Didn't see this post. That seems a little hot to me, with water/meth AND the dual pass thats really hot! At idle mines like 85 tops, cruisin 40 its like 65-70, and a 0-142 mph run is like 167 for me!!! I think you might have air bubbles in your system cause somethings not right.

Killa SS

01-25-2007, 03:08 PM

Good job on the install Blown, and good luck to everyone doing there Dual pass. i wouldnt beable to do this. I'd fuck up. it looks way complicated. would a shop do the install for me like a Chevy dealer? with out buying the stage kit? i would jsut buy the end plate and stuff.

Blown 4-banger

01-25-2007, 05:35 PM

I don't know if I'd trust the dealer to do something like that on my car.

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-25-2007, 11:18 PM

The hardest part is drilling the endplate. If you are concerned about that buy the GM Dual pass plate and do the install. It's really not all that hard, just time consuming and requires a mild knowledge of working on cars.

Killa SS

01-25-2007, 11:26 PM

i kno how to work on cars. pull it apart put back together with new part. but its the hoses and switchin parts around for the flow thing that confuse and scare me.

JapEatr

01-25-2007, 11:38 PM

I just finished the dualpass endplate and the extra coolant bottle. I used the Ion Redline's stock coolant bottle and put it on the passenger side and made a couple simple brakets to hold it there on the stock studs that stick up there. Haven't been able to see the difference yet on IATs.... Too much damn snow :thumbsdow

got pics of the bottle instal and brackets?

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-25-2007, 11:41 PM

i kno how to work on cars. pull it apart put back together with new part. but its the hoses and switchin parts around for the flow thing that confuse and scare me.

It's nothing really.

distillion

01-26-2007, 12:26 AM

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-26-2007, 12:31 AM

I think so. It will take a few hours, so be prepared.

distillion

01-26-2007, 12:32 AM

one guy here said he did it in an hour??lol
this has to be the msot confusing mod ive ever wanted for my car hahahaha

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-26-2007, 12:38 AM

one guy here said he did it in an hour??lol
this has to be the msot confusing mod ive ever wanted for my car hahahaha

If you are comfortable you could probably do it that fast. It took Blown 4-banger and I way, way to long simply because we weren't sure what we were getting into. 6 of those hours were dedicated to trying to figure out that there were 2 bolts holding the manifold on underneath. :cussing:

distillion

01-26-2007, 12:42 AM

o damn, ok gotcha.
well when the time comes to where this will be done im letting the both of you know in advance you will be getting some pms regarding this hahaha, hope you guys dont mind!

Blown 4-banger

01-26-2007, 12:46 AM

No its cool. PM away, ask any questions you have... you know as long as their not like "what are you wearing?" ...nevermind :lol:

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-26-2007, 12:49 AM

o damn, ok gotcha.
well when the time comes to where this will be done im letting the both of you know in advance you will be getting some pms regarding this hahaha, hope you guys dont mind!

That was the original reason for this thread and my post, of course you can PM me about it. I'm pretty sure that the guide I wrote up covers it all, but I'm always willing to modify it if need be to make it more clear. I wish I had the pics for it so you could actually see it, not just read it.

distillion

01-26-2007, 12:50 AM

thanks guys, appreciate it!!!!

i may have missed in other posts but can you bump up the timing after this mod is done?

Blown 4-banger

01-26-2007, 12:53 AM

I would say YES you can. Not much though, maybe 1 or 2 degrees. I got like 1.5 degrees of extra timing outta mine (went from 15 to 16.5 degrees on pump gas)

distillion

01-26-2007, 12:57 AM

ok cool, but tuning is not neccessary for this mod though correct?
even with the significant drop of intake temps?

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-26-2007, 12:59 AM

Tuning is not needed. You could optimize the tune for the lower temps, but I would rather leave it to allow you more room for heat soak. The bigger the gap from KR, the better IMO.

Blown 4-banger

01-26-2007, 01:01 AM

Yeah, you can leave it the same, it won't hurt anything.

distillion

01-26-2007, 01:01 AM

awesome info here guys!
i was gonna do the option B but thats just too much for me hahaha

Blown 4-banger

01-26-2007, 01:03 AM

That would help A LOT. The extra resevior tank would actually make a HUGE difference. I'm gonna do a resevior tank myself.... only it will be cooled with ice/dry ice :lol:

distillion

01-26-2007, 01:15 AM

yer car is gonna be the"coolest" car on this site hahaha

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Intercooler-End-Plate-Seal-12584355-P1702C196.aspx
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Intercooler-End-Plate-Seal-12584333-P1703C196.aspx

so jap says these come with the plate
did you guys have to use these or what, not sure what the deal is on them.

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-26-2007, 01:19 AM

You can reuse them if they are not damaged. The first is one of the o-ring seals that goes between the endplate and the intake manifold. The other is the gasket that goes on the bypass valve. We just reused the stock ones, no big deal.

The top one surrounds the smooth machined face in this pic.
http://cobaltss.net/gallery/files/3/6/5/0/CoreFlow.jpg

distillion

01-26-2007, 01:23 AM

this is finally starting to make sense to me lol

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-26-2007, 01:29 AM

Here is the other gasket on the right.
http://cobaltss.net/gallery/files/3/6/5/0/IntakeManifold.jpg

distillion

01-26-2007, 08:25 AM

Blown 4-banger

01-26-2007, 06:05 PM

awesome
so then all i need is a hose and a y fitting and eventually my temps will drop a lil with my new found 2.7.
any tips on the best way to bleed the system?, also how thick/long of a hose should i use?

also regarding the pic that shows the cores, what is the BEST sequence in which they should be flipped.

You'll need 3/4" heater hose. I'd say about 4 feet just to be safe. Also bleeding the system is a long and tedious process, expect it to take several hours.

BlackSS/SC

01-26-2007, 06:10 PM

You'll need 3/4" heater hose. I'd say about 4 feet just to be safe. Also bleeding the system is a long and tedious process, expect it to take several hours.

If you use the extra cooling tank with the 1/4" line going from the top of the heat exchanger to the coolant bottle it bleeds the air out on its own. The air will come right out.

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-26-2007, 08:28 PM

If you use the extra cooling tank with the 1/4" line going from the top of the heat exchanger to the coolant bottle it bleeds the air out on its own. The air will come right out.

That's part of the reason I recommend adding the tank while you are at it. Plus it prevents you from making a mess multiple times.

distillion

01-26-2007, 08:38 PM

ok guys educate me,
if i went with the b option how muc hmore involved is this?

Blown 4-banger

01-26-2007, 11:15 PM

Theres definatly more involved, but not like 5 hours of extra work. I'd do it for sure!

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-27-2007, 01:49 AM

I think it is every bit worth the extra time and expense. You will have to drill the Intake manifold for the bleeder valve, but nobody is really sure where.

Blown 4-banger

01-27-2007, 01:52 AM

Zinner drilled it on the other side of the manifold (the passenger side).

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-27-2007, 01:58 AM

I wish he would update his Stage 3 install thread then.

zinner

01-27-2007, 11:36 PM

Zinner drilled it on the other side of the manifold (the passenger side).

No I never drilled out anything. I was asking if thats where you put the bleeder in the stage 3 endplate install.

BlackSS/SC

01-28-2007, 12:02 AM

The bleeder goes on the top passenger side of the heat exchanger. If you look in through the spot where the hood latch is and towards the passenger side you will see a pipe plug screwed in there. Take that out and put a fitting in that has a 1/4" nipple on it. Can't remember the thread now, it was either 1/8"NPT or 1/4"NPT, thinking it was 1/8"NPT but don't quote me on it. You don't need to do anything to do with drilling the intake manifold. Once you got the fitting in you shove the .040" orfice into the 1/4" rubber hose and put that on the 1/4" nipple you just screwed in. The other end goes on the 1/4" nipple on the new coolant tank. I had no problem with air whatsoever, just filled it up. Drove a bit and stopped, topped it up. The air will come out easy on it's own with GM's option B.

Hope I could help. The instructions aren't very clear on this.

zinner

01-28-2007, 10:23 AM

Yeah I found the spot to screw in the bleed screw. I didn't do the GM option 2 because I have all my nitrous gear in that spot.

I used the hose however and just had to drain into the stock filler neck for like 20 minutes.

spaz

01-28-2007, 10:51 AM

anyone know where I can see these options ie. instructions.

BlilBT

01-28-2007, 10:57 AM

anyone know where I can see these options ie. instructions.

Crate engine Depot website!;)

Admiral Jedi

01-28-2007, 07:07 PM

How significantly would adding a larger reservoir affect iats along with a dual pass?

Cobalt_Supercharged

01-28-2007, 08:41 PM

How significantly would adding a larger reservoir affect iats along with a dual pass?

Larger reservoir would hold more coolant and take longer to heat soak. The gives the ability to do longer full boost runs.

Blown 4-banger

01-28-2007, 08:52 PM

Larger reservoir would hold more coolant and take longer to heat soak. The gives the ability to do longer full boost runs.

X2! Exactly why I'm doing an extra resevior tank.

pierre

01-31-2007, 01:47 PM

Larger reservoir would hold more coolant and take longer to heat soak. The gives the ability to do longer full boost runs.

The GM reservoir will add very little extra heat capacity. There is very little flow going through it because of the .040" orfice in line is the only circulation it sees. It's main purpose is to provide extra room for the coolant to expand due to higher temperatures and the extra volume that additional heat exchangers add to the system. It will also bleed air out of the system and keep it out of the system much more efficiantly than the stock fill tube.

Pierre

BlackSS/SC

01-31-2007, 05:33 PM

I wonder, would it be better to leave the .040 orfice out?

distillion

01-31-2007, 05:57 PM

wat the hell are u guys talkin about now?
im confused about this random orfice.......:(

i may have asked this before but does that come with the kit or do i buy seperate?

BlackSS/SC

01-31-2007, 06:00 PM

wat the hell are u guys talkin about now?
im confused about this random orfice.......:(

i may have asked this before but does that come with the kit or do i buy seperate?

It's just that little piece of plastic you put in the 1/4" rubber line before you put it on the top of the heat exchanger. I wrote a how-to on it that I sent you but it didn't get posted for some reason.

BlilBT

01-31-2007, 08:43 PM

Larger reservoir would hold more coolant and take longer to heat soak. The gives the ability to do longer full boost runs.

On top of that you Add a Dual Pass Heat Exchanger & Your Good To Go!:twothumbs

Im getting a Custom Reservoir Made, I'm Doing the endplate, Heat Exchanger & Custom Reservoir all at once! I'll Post up some Pics when I Get it Installed! About aweek or so, Just waiting on the Reservoir to be Finished!:cssNET:

Cobalt_Supercharged

02-01-2007, 02:38 AM

The GM reservoir will add very little extra heat capacity. There is very little flow going through it because of the .040" orfice in line is the only circulation it sees. It's main purpose is to provide extra room for the coolant to expand due to higher temperatures and the extra volume that additional heat exchangers add to the system. It will also bleed air out of the system and keep it out of the system much more efficiantly than the stock fill tube.

Pierre

It connects with more than just the 1/4" line. It also connects with a 3/4" line. Take a look at the GM Stage 3 instructions. But your right that it is an expansion tank now that I looked at it again. If it had a return it would work even better. Do what BlilBT is doing with a custom resevoir tank and you will get what you really want.

y2kzman

02-12-2007, 01:14 AM

Were do we get the .040 orifice descibed in the option b instructions on crate engine depot. is this something an autoparts store would have

BlilBT

02-12-2007, 05:14 PM

Were do we get the .040 orifice descibed in the option b instructions on crate engine depot. is this something an autoparts store would have

Yes you can get it at any Parts store, Its Just a Line Reducer That goes on the Inside of the 1/4 inch Line to restrict Flow. The 1 in the instructions Has 4 sides & they simplly cut of the Piece on the Bottom. Then shove it up in the Line!

Admiral Jedi

02-18-2007, 01:39 AM

Maybe I missed it, but what are the torque specs on the bolts that hold the endplate to the manifold?

BlilBT

02-18-2007, 10:32 AM

Maybe I missed it, but what are the torque specs on the bolts that hold the endplate to the manifold?

89 inch lbs!;)

1BADSS/SC

02-19-2007, 05:41 AM

this may be kind of a dumb question but, what is the point of the dual pass?? Does it work with the HE??

gilbert

02-19-2007, 11:06 AM

this may be kind of a dumb question but, what is the point of the dual pass?? Does it work with the HE??

it works even better with the he ur temps will drop faster ,more coolant and easy to bleed the system :twothumbs

Admiral Jedi

02-19-2007, 11:08 AM

it works even better with the he ur temps will drop faster ,more coolant and easy to bleed the system :twothumbs

Also, it's much much more efficient. It's a pita, as I found out yesterday, but I think it's worth the few hours of misery.

Blown 4-banger

02-19-2007, 02:08 PM

Dual Pass + Cobra HE + Ported Blower = A Wicked fast car with IAT2 that rarly gets higher than 150 degrees! :twothumbs

srt-killer

02-19-2007, 02:21 PM

Dual Pass + Cobra HE + Ported Blower = A Wicked fast car with IAT2 that rarly gets higher than 150 degrees! :twothumbs

When are you going to help me with mine?lol

Blown 4-banger

02-19-2007, 02:27 PM

You shouldn't need the dual pass, right now you have meth injection, and after that you'll have -300 degree nitrous sprayin so heat shouldn't be too much of an issue with you.

1BADSS/SC

02-19-2007, 02:40 PM

I just ordered a HE. Can I just use the HE, or do I need this mod too? Money is kinda tight, I dont wanna break the bank...

Blown 4-banger

02-19-2007, 02:49 PM

I just ordered a HE. Can I just use the HE, or do I need this mod too? Money is kinda tight, I dont wanna break the bank...

The dual pass is recomended but not required. I'd say its not as strongly needed for someone with a 2.9-2.8 as it is for someone with a 2.6-2.5.

cobaltBlackss

02-19-2007, 03:46 PM

I still can't figure out the deal w/ the orifice

Cobalt_Supercharged

02-20-2007, 01:41 AM

I still can't figure out the deal w/ the orifice

If it helps we never did it. It will just take you longer to bleed the system. I would highly recommend getting yourself access to a good vacuum pump like they use at dealerships to coolant flushes. That will really help prevent getting air in the system.

MoparMan

02-22-2007, 05:02 PM

Sticking a vacuum hose on any orrifice weirds me out but I guess its a necessary evil ;)

BlackSS/SC

02-22-2007, 05:14 PM

I still can't figure out the deal w/ the orifice

All you do it break the end piece off the t-fitting that you can get at any autoparts store. Then you just shove it in the end of 1/4" hose, the end where it goes to the top of the heat exchanger. It's pretty damn easy.

Blown 4-banger

02-22-2007, 07:19 PM

Sticking a vacuum hose on any orrifice weirds me out but I guess its a necessary evil ;)

JESS!!! What up! I didn't know you were on this site!?!?

Ok back on topic :lol:

BlilBT

02-22-2007, 09:46 PM

Sticking a vacuum hose on any orrifice weirds me out but I guess its a necessary evil ;)

What it does is slow Down the amount of Fluid returning to the Reservoir!

JapEatr

02-23-2007, 01:27 AM

What it does is slow Down the amount of Fluid returning to the Reservoir!

i couldnt find a .040 oriface but i have a 1/8 in vacuum T and it looks just like the one in the instructions

think it is gonna be small enough ?

blown06

02-23-2007, 03:19 PM

I am following everything just fine question is for those that have done this tank mod are any of you running a C/A front heat exchanger if so where did you run the orifice line if you removed the stock h/e? does the c/a h/e have a plug at top? Did you leave the stock h/e in with aftermarket or remove it? I ordered the C/A H/e and have not received it yet so thats why I ask.....

BlilBT

02-23-2007, 06:02 PM

i couldnt find a .040 oriface but i have a 1/8 in vacuum T and it looks just like the one in the instructions

think it is gonna be small enough ?

Local Auto stores Have them, It should work But try to find the 1s they say!

I am following everything just fine question is for those that have done this tank mod are any of you running a C/A front heat exchanger if so where did you run the orifice line if you removed the stock h/e? does the c/a h/e have a plug at top? Did you leave the stock h/e in with aftermarket or remove it? I ordered the C/A H/e and have not received it yet so thats why I ask.....

I'm Not running the C/A Heat exchanger , But I'm Running a Dual Pass & The stock 1! I Put the Line in the Bleeder Plug on the stock H/E

cobaltBlackss

02-28-2007, 11:45 PM

I have the ca he that does no have anywhere for a bleeder line. Would it be a bad thing to run the stock and the ca he's?

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-01-2007, 02:04 AM

Blown 4-banger

03-01-2007, 02:45 AM

If you have enough room for both to fit you can bennefit from having 2 HE's instead of one. Just be sure to run the coolant through the stock HE first. Then route it directly from the stock HE to the CA HE. Your temps will stay lower longer and cool back down faster.

X2!!!
Just got back from racin some SRTs, and at 160 mph my IAT2 was 178 degrees!
The second HE and the dual pass add insane endurance to your intercooler.

blown06

03-01-2007, 07:29 AM

awesome thanks for the info i will get the stock with the second and do all the cooling mods cant wait friday=pay day= mod day lol

BlilBT

03-01-2007, 10:27 AM

awesome thanks for the info i will get the stock with the second and do all the cooling mods cant wait friday=pay day= mod day lol

You will Love it, Just take your time & Reuse the Hose Guard's to help protect the Lines!
The dual Pass H/E I have with the stock 1 works awesome!

A-Town

03-07-2007, 11:37 AM

Imgoing to try that!!!

blown06

03-07-2007, 11:57 AM

BlilBT

03-07-2007, 05:36 PM

sorry for the questions, one last one have all the mods in the garage i see the routing goes pump to manifold then to the heat exchangers back to pump. Would there be any benefit to run pump to stock exchange to C/A heatexchange then to manifold then to pump? I would assume there wouldnt be just a thought that popped into me head not sure what i was thinking lol

The Pump out port goes to stock H/E, Then to the 2nd H/E, Then into the Dual Pass Center Port thru the manifold, Then Back to the Pump in Port for the return trip! The last T before the Pump Ties in the Reservoir right before the Pump In Port!

blown06

03-07-2007, 08:04 PM

ah gotcha lol piece of cake now I just have to wait for my endplate get back to me tomorrow they are welding in the fitting

foreverchevy

03-16-2007, 10:37 PM

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-17-2007, 06:23 AM

I don't think we are talking about the same bracket. The bracket I am talking about is tucked up under the manifold. If you look in the picture below you will barely see it hiding behind the ruler. You can only reach it from under the car. I'll try to get under my car later and get a pic or 2 if you still need it.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h178/73gmc/Dual%20Pass%20IC%20Mod/coreordersmall.jpg

BlilBT

03-17-2007, 10:02 AM

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-17-2007, 11:56 AM

Either method will work. You've done it your way, and I've done it my way.

ItalianJoe1

03-30-2007, 12:07 AM

I just got my dual-pass endplate back today. The guy at the machine shop even polished the fitting before putting it together. Hopefully I can install it sometime next week. Really looking forward to it!!
1602
1603

By the way, how do you post large pics in a post??

ItalianJoe1

03-30-2007, 12:40 AM

Also, anyone who has done the second resivior, where did you get it??

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-30-2007, 03:32 AM

Looks great. I hope it is close enough that it clears the oil filter. I think most are getting the resevior from Crate Engine Depot. Hook the bleeder tube to the top of the stock HE bleeder fitting. Good luck.

Ljavy17

03-30-2007, 12:17 PM

The Pump out port goes to stock H/E, Then to the 2nd H/E, Then into the Dual Pass Center Port thru the manifold, Then Back to the Pump in Port for the return trip! The last T before the Pump Ties in the Reservoir right before the Pump In Port!

Bill, is this counting the extra reservoir tank, or without it. I completely understand how to do it this way, but would this include the extra tank or not. How would you install the extra tank.

2K5SS/SC?

03-30-2007, 01:38 PM

I did mine this past weekend and it works great. I used only one Earl's fitting that I modified and then had welded into place. One 90* piece that completly clears the oil filter housing and is not angled at all. I'll have more info and pics after I get a heat exchanger mounted though.

ItalianJoe1

03-30-2007, 04:33 PM

Ok, i just re-read this whole thread, and am still not 100% sure how to bleed the system if all you do is the dual pass. Can you keep adding coolant and the air will work itself out?? I am not really following here. I hope to do the second tank and H/E eventually, but I wanna do this now.

Bump for some help please!! :)

BlilBT

03-30-2007, 07:25 PM

Bill, is this counting the extra reservoir tank, or without it. I completely understand how to do it this way, but would this include the extra tank or not. How would you install the extra tank.

Yes it does! the Last open port of the 2 T's you use, Goes to the reservoir! This option reguires to T's, 1 Ties the 2 out ports of the manifold into 1 Line then a short piece of Hose! Then the 2nd T, 1 goes to the Pump in & the other goes to the Reservoir!:twothumbs

ItalianJoe1

04-03-2007, 03:41 AM

Ok, can someone please give me a brief outline of the actual bleeding process, I am gonna do this tomorrow. I'm so excited!! :)

Nobody???

Cobalt_Supercharged

04-03-2007, 04:15 AM

If you are installing the extra "surge tank" it will bleed itself if you connect the bleed tube of the tank to the bleed fitting on top of the stock Heat Exchanger.

If not open the bleed fitting while refilling the system. Then close it and the refill cap and turn on the pump for a 15-30 seconds, turn it off and open both the refill cap and the bleed fitting. If it has air still the fluid in the refill tube will drop. Repeat until it no longer drops. Then check it again after driving for a day or 2 and repeat if necessary.

Not sure if that is the best way to do it, but it has worked great for me. If anyone has something better please share.

ItalianJoe1

04-03-2007, 03:48 PM

Ok, that makes sense a little. Any more help will be appreciated, i'm going out to get some extra hose right now, will be doing the mod when I get back. Thanks

Ok, all done!! Almost no air in the system either. Made sure to cap the lines as soon as I opened them, only lost what was in the manifold. Still getting the little bubbles out, but all set otherwise. I hope I notice some sort of difference, but this was mainly being done in preparation for the future. Thanks for you help guys.

Anyone interested in me rigging up my old plate for them and selling you a complete dual pass kit?? I'll include the hose, clamps, T fitting, everything you would need. Any takers??

MacG321

04-09-2007, 03:12 AM

how much will a dual pass endplate benefit a stage 2 car with bolt ons?

ItalianJoe1

04-09-2007, 03:15 AM

I don't know, my car feels strong as hell in the top of third and through fourth, hard to measure the difference but it is there.

BlilBT

04-09-2007, 11:41 PM

how much will a dual pass endplate benefit a stage 2 car with bolt ons?

Alot>>> The Cooler & Better you can Cool the Intake the Longer you will avoid heat soak! Thats why at Stage 3 They recommend that you use it! On a Dyno I wouldn't Notice a drop in Power Like you would, Do to Better cooling!

chipmonk212121

05-07-2007, 02:08 AM

...This all looks pretty simple really. Even option B. Just gotta run a few extra lines. Its just going to be a little time consuming... You only have to be under the car for the 2 bottom manifold gaskets right?

ItalianJoe1

05-07-2007, 02:38 AM

Right, but that is by far the hardest part. Those bottom bolts make you wanna kick a baby kitten.

chipmonk212121

05-07-2007, 11:52 AM

Right, but that is by far the hardest part. Those bottom bolts make you wanna kick a baby kitten.

FINALLY!!!! an excuse to kick a baby kitten!

after installing the header and having to learn to bend my arm in ways it shouldnt for a few bolts, this shouldnt be too bad.

BCobaltSS

05-07-2007, 12:54 PM

Those bottom bolts are pretty much a night mare and you have to remove the water pump just to get to them . You pretty much have to turmn the wrnch quarter tuen flip the wrench then turn another quarter tun till it is out. Pain in the !@#. Oh an I noticed on mine since I have had in for a month now that make sure you extend the top and bottom hoses far enough towards the front of the car so the middle hose does not rub on it . I mabe that mistake and I put a piece of rubber beteen them . Hope it goes good for you and don't forget about the 1/4'' line for OPTION B to connect to the top part of the core and you have to pop the grill fastners back and peel back the grill to see the plug. That where the 1/4'' hose goes.

Have fun I know I did hahhaha ugh.

Mase

05-16-2007, 02:49 AM

ItalianJoe1

05-16-2007, 02:55 AM

anyone notice how in the GM instructions the coolant flows out of the front HE, into the dual pass, out of the dual pass and into the pump

it can't be good flowing hot coolant through the pump all day. The stock system first runs the cold coolant through the pump, then the single pass.

this pump is only rated for 275*F
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/boschh2ic.html

I just installed this on a buddy's and we ran the coolant first through the pump then the dual pass. He's still driving around to get it bleed correctly so I don't know if it's working correctly or not. But I would say it does.

That coolant should never be hotter than the engine coolant anyway, and if it was it would only be for a short time. I doubt the coolant temp in the intercooler system every breaks 200 degrees, i would say mostly its at 150 or so. Gotta borrow the infrared thermometer from work and check now.

distillion

05-16-2007, 08:23 AM

anyone notice how in the GM instructions the coolant flows out of the front HE, into the dual pass, out of the dual pass and into the pump

it can't be good flowing hot coolant through the pump all day. The stock system first runs the cold coolant through the pump, then the single pass.

this pump is only rated for 275*F
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/boschh2ic.html

I just installed this on a buddy's and we ran the coolant first through the pump then the dual pass. He's still driving around to get it bleed correctly so I don't know if it's working correctly or not. But I would say it does.

yup this is my car we are talkin about, so far crusing its a lil warmer than usual, about 10 degreees or so, the hope is when the air is fully bled from the system after driving, the coolant will flow freely finally and the temps will be normal at cruise and see a significant drop in iat2 temps at wot.

BlilBT

05-16-2007, 09:19 AM

That coolant should never be hotter than the engine coolant anyway, and if it was it would only be for a short time. I doubt the coolant temp in the intercooler system every breaks 200 degrees, i would say mostly its at 150 or so. Gotta borrow the infrared thermometer from work and check now.

I can tell you that My Intake Temps Never make it over 125 degrees! So running it thru the pump warm wont hurt it!

ItalianJoe1

05-16-2007, 10:37 AM

I can tell you that My Intake Temps Never make it over 125 degrees! So running it thru the pump warm wont hurt it!

Also, you would want to have coolant go from the H/E directly to the Manifold to make sure you are getting the coolest temps possible for the coolant to cool the air. If you have the coolant heat up 5 degrees when passing from the H/E back to the pump and then up to the manifold, you have just added 5 degrees to your ITA2, which is much worse than running your I/C pump 5 degrees hotter.

Mase

05-16-2007, 11:19 AM

Also, you would want to have coolant go from the H/E directly to the Manifold to make sure you are getting the coolest temps possible for the coolant to cool the air. If you have the coolant heat up 5 degrees when passing from the H/E back to the pump and then up to the manifold, you have just added 5 degrees to your ITA2, which is much worse than running your I/C pump 5 degrees hotter.

I've heard of one guy blow his pump after doing the dual pass. This is why I am concerned.

And you're only assuming the pump increases the temps, I'll do some investigation on this.

chipmonk212121

05-16-2007, 12:41 PM

ItalianJoe1

05-16-2007, 01:33 PM

I've heard of one guy blow his pump after doing the dual pass. This is why I am concerned.

And you're only assuming the pump increases the temps, I'll do some investigation on this.

Its not so much a matter of the pump itself increasing temps, more of a matter that all the hoses and pump are a longer length between H/E outlet and manifold inlet, and that means more time exposed to heat coming off of the engine, radiator, and such. Obviously, my numbers are just a guess, it may be so insignificant that you will not see a difference either way. I just doubt that drawing the warm coolant into the pump is any harder on it than drawing the cool coolant into the pump. The actual pump is separate from the motor, which is air cooled, so I doubt flow direction makes any difference on pump temps. Now if the guy that blew the pump installed his cores backwards... that added strain could cause a pump failure. Installer error....

distillion

05-16-2007, 03:43 PM

good analysis, we pretty much kept the the flow jsut like stock since it made a lil more sense to do it this way rather than gms way at the time, we kinda goofed on the whole bleeding process and now we understand what needs to be done, mase will get the final touches and connections done tonight and monitor the iat2s.

Asphalt Assault

05-17-2007, 10:50 AM

Its not so much a matter of the pump itself increasing temps, more of a matter that all the hoses and pump are a longer length between H/E outlet and manifold inlet, and that means more time exposed to heat coming off of the engine, radiator, and such. Obviously, my numbers are just a guess, it may be so insignificant that you will not see a difference either way. I just doubt that drawing the warm coolant into the pump is any harder on it than drawing the cool coolant into the pump. The actual pump is separate from the motor, which is air cooled, so I doubt flow direction makes any difference on pump temps. Now if the guy that blew the pump installed his cores backwards... that added strain could cause a pump failure. Installer error....

insulate the hose with aluminized vent tape. that will help the coolant from heating up from engine bay temps. either way you run the plumbing with the pump according to your beliefs this would be a important extra trick. the idea is to shield the hose similarly done by factory GM on the heater core hoses. they are more agressive with protection there due to the exhaust header. aluminized tape should be enough but there might be better things. the alluminum corragated hose protector like the block heater hoses would be considered to be the best.

NO, it is 1 hp for every 11 degrees.

well that could be to some point except if you having problems with overheating your fuel charge and trying to prevent detonation from IAT being to high, right. IAT can get too high if you in the 130 to 140 as that would be heat soaked. want to be in the 90 to 110 range. I have seen 130 and 140 with my 2.6 (just got it) one evening. yesterday I was driving and air charge was 90 (IAT2). I hit the gas while do 40mph and the tires peeled out letting out a major squeal. I shifted the car to third and realized I was in second at the time. this car is crazy powerful now if IAT2 are in check. you know I am doing this mod very soon...LOL.

ok question blown 4 banger i have the 2.6 pulley ,60#, C/A he and stock he, methanol inject, and ported housing .do u thinck i need the dual pass ?my iat2 is usually 150-155

Running meth than I would say it not necessary or vital. for HP it will help but seriously until you get some pistons why would you want to put more stress on those weak pistons. if you went to forged pistons already then all the power to you. you have every reason to max your power.

The longer you are WOT the greater the temp decrease, because...
1. With the dual pass IAT2 increase slower.
2. With the dual pass, my IAT2 has been over 170 ONE time, and that was pre heatsoaked, and a 20-140 mph run.
3. With the dual pass IAT2 tends to level off around 165, and stock it will keep rising forever.

Man I think I found the only benefit to living in canada. my IAT2 only gets up to 130 cause were cooler up here:lol: I hear of 165 and 150 lol and I am stock at 90 to 130.lol but summers coming so that will all change our temperatures swing from -40 to 100 F. no shit.

I just finished the dualpass endplate and the extra coolant bottle. I used the Ion Redline's stock coolant bottle and put it on the passenger side and made a couple simple brakets to hold it there on the stock studs that stick up there. Haven't been able to see the difference yet on IATs.... Too much damn snow :thumbsdow

any differences now?

distillion

05-17-2007, 10:51 AM

well be testing mine out tonite.

BlilBT

05-18-2007, 09:52 AM

Also, you would want to have coolant go from the H/E directly to the Manifold to make sure you are getting the coolest temps possible for the coolant to cool the air. If you have the coolant heat up 5 degrees when passing from the H/E back to the pump and then up to the manifold, you have just added 5 degrees to your ITA2, which is much worse than running your I/C pump 5 degrees hotter.

It does go from the Dual pass H/E >>. Back to the Manifold! Then thru The Intake Manifold>> Then Back out to the Pump for the return Trip! The Temps on the dual Pass are alot lower than the Stock temps! So in return your Coolant temps goin thru the Pump are Cooler than they were when the car had the stock cooling system, The Pump will run cooler than stock & Should last longer!:cssNET:

distillion

05-18-2007, 09:59 AM

so BLILBT the setup we did will work just fine right?

jgarciarivera

05-18-2007, 10:31 AM

Is it normal a 189F temperature on a stock ss/sc?

InfinityzeN

05-18-2007, 11:36 AM

I got a question. What mixture of anti-freeze and water you guys running? Add any thing else to the fluid?

I'm asking because antifreeze has about 50% of the heat handling capabilities of water. So with the stock 50/50 mix, you have about 75% the efficiency of pure water. You should always stay at least 20% antifreeze no matter what, but with a 20/80 split, you would have 90% the efficiency of pure water. Add in some Redline Water Wetter or Royal Purple Purple Ice and you would actually get a higher efficiency then pure water. Meaning you would see about a 30~35% increase in exchanger performance.

BlilBT

05-18-2007, 11:12 PM

so BLILBT the setup we did will work just fine right?

Option A works OK
Option B Is the way to go & Route it the same way Gm tells you to!:cssNET:

distillion

05-19-2007, 01:49 AM

we just thought routing the plumbing the way mentioned in previous posts made a bit more sense as apposed to GMs way since thats how it was connected before.

BlilBT

05-19-2007, 10:01 AM

we just thought routing the plumbing the way mentioned in previous posts made a bit more sense as apposed to GMs way since thats how it was connected before.

I'm Not sure if it will have the same effect or Not, What Layout are you setting up! Another words How are you routing it!

Asphalt Assault

05-21-2007, 02:49 AM

anyone know what the IAT2 temp is for stock and GMS2. I hit 164 yesterday. I was amazed how guickly it moved up! I need to do more than this little bit of cooling. Gotta go full blown here or just a bigger pulley for now. many problems with 2.7"?

distillion

05-21-2007, 02:52 AM

Asphalt Assault

05-21-2007, 03:13 AM

just to clarify my intercooling is stock.

distillion

05-21-2007, 03:16 AM

i never saw temps that high.
running a 2.7 pulley.

Asphalt Assault

05-21-2007, 03:46 AM

i never saw temps that high.
running a 2.7 pulley.

I am running 2.6 so how high did you get?

BlilBT

05-21-2007, 09:23 AM

thats seems a tad high, we found out today for some reason my setup isnt bleeding properly, its almost like its working in reverse and my surge tank is filling with coolant instead of it depleteing.............
it was goin down and topped it twice, then today it was abnormaly high, and bubbles were coming out of the hose that is connected to the bottom of the surge tank......

The surge tank is suppose to maintain a Level Fill when running after all the air is gone! It took mine about 50 Miles to Bleed out all the air!
Just make sure your flow is from the pump to the stock H/E to the 2nd H/E Then back to the center port! On the 2 out Lines should be your 1 st Tee then a small piece of Hose & then your 2nd Tee! Off that Tee 1 3/4 hose goes to the revesvoir & the other goes to the Pump In!

distillion

05-21-2007, 06:12 PM

fixed:)
wot in second, hit 120 degrees max
wot in 3rd 138 degrees
crusing on highway 85 degrees
idles reaches highest 136-138, then drops to 125 and remains there until moving.
crusing the streets 100-115, depending on traffic.
this is on a 2.7 pulley.
the piping just had to be rerouted because there wasnt enough flow goin to the heat exchanger, other than that we changed nothing in our setup.
the only thing is that we still see bubbles in the tank coming from the bottom where the hose is attached and not exactly sure why.
we retune on wed;)

Mase

05-21-2007, 09:21 PM

the only thing we did was move the T-fitting to the bottom near the pump and point the straight through of the T to wards the heat exchanger and the bend towards the tank higher up.

85*F, sick!

distillion

05-21-2007, 09:26 PM

i must say you are the man:)

TxLonghorn#1

05-21-2007, 10:22 PM

does anybody have a diagram of option B...include the "Y" fitting and if you used the 0.040" orifice. I can't understand the one that GM has:lol: :lol:

BlilBT

05-21-2007, 10:47 PM

does anybody have a diagram of option B...include the "Y" fitting and if you used the 0.040" orifice. I can't understand the one that GM has:lol: :lol:

The Y is for Option A & you Need 2 Tees for Option B

distillion

05-21-2007, 10:50 PM

im running a Y and a T

dstinsman56

05-21-2007, 11:09 PM

So lets see some diagrams. I am doing mine pretty soon. Curious to see how people have rigged there's together.

Asphalt Assault

05-22-2007, 02:53 AM

So lets see some diagrams. I am doing mine pretty soon. Curious to see how people have rigged there's together.

I second that with similar curiosity. thanks

dstinsman56

05-25-2007, 01:32 PM

Bump

TxLonghorn#1

05-25-2007, 07:14 PM

bump......for any one who has a B option diagram

BlilBT

05-25-2007, 09:41 PM

bump......for any one who has a B option diagram

I have the Diagram but not Uploaded, But it's easy Starting at the Pump, The Pump is Mark in & Out or at least Mine was! The Out Port on the Pump goes to The Stock H/E IN>>>>Then to Your Dual Pass IN If you have a 2nd H/E>>> Then Out of the H/E to the IN Port on the Dual Pass Endplate which is the center 1>>>>> Then out of the Dual Pass upper & Lower outlets with a short piece of hose >>> Then Connect your 1st tee Making the 2 out Ports 1>> Then a Short piece of Hose again & connect the next Tee >> 1 Outlet of this Tee goes to the New Reservoir & The last 1 goes to the Pump IN! Done:twothumbs
Then take the Plug off the Top of your stock H/E & Run a 1/4 inch Line to the Reservoir inlet with a .40 orifice in the Line to Slow the Flow!
Crate engine Depot has the Details & Diagrams on the Install!:cssNET:

chipmonk212121

06-04-2007, 01:31 PM

The stock fill neck goes away when you do the Option B tank right? the Tee goes where the current neck is and that line runs to the tank. then the 1/4" line runs to the stock HE nipple right?

BlilBT

06-04-2007, 11:36 PM

The stock fill neck goes away when you do the Option B tank right? the Tee goes where the current neck is and that line runs to the tank. then the 1/4" line runs to the stock HE nipple right?

Correct >> The stock neck is not needed.:cssNET:

chipmonk212121

06-05-2007, 12:25 AM

ya, thats what i gathered from the diagram

Asphalt Assault

06-16-2007, 12:02 PM

I have the Diagram but not Uploaded, But it's easy Starting at the Pump, The Pump is Mark in & Out or at least Mine was! The Out Port on the Pump goes to The Stock H/E IN>>>>Then to Your Dual Pass IN If you have a 2nd H/E>>> Then Out of the H/E to the IN Port on the Dual Pass Endplate which is the center 1>>>>> Then out of the Dual Pass upper & Lower outlets with a short piece of hose >>> Then Connect your 1st tee Making the 2 out Ports 1>> Then a Short piece of Hose again & connect the next Tee >> 1 Outlet of this Tee goes to the New Reservoir & The last 1 goes to the Pump IN! Done:twothumbs
Then take the Plug off the Top of your stock H/E & Run a 1/4 inch Line to the Reservoir inlet with a .40 orifice in the Line to Slow the Flow!
Crate engine Depot has the Details & Diagrams on the Install!:cssNET:

I plan on doing exactly this but with a twist. the reservoir will be included in the circulation with a port in the side for in and out the bottom to the pump. bleeding off the air from the HE will have to be intermittent most likely but will work.

RedSS

06-20-2007, 11:30 PM

Dumb question, but can't find the answer - what are you guys using to measure IAT2 temps?

distillion

06-21-2007, 11:28 AM

hp tuners, or an interceptor gauge.

Asphalt Assault

06-21-2007, 12:31 PM

I plan on doing exactly this but with a twist. the reservoir will be included in the circulation with a port in the side for in and out the bottom to the pump. bleeding off the air from the HE will have to be intermittent most likely but will work.

http://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/08/f4/a3/9e_1.JPG

found on ebay....lol....perfect

BlilBT

06-21-2007, 07:15 PM

http://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/08/f4/a3/9e_1.JPG

found on ebay....lol....perfect

The Resevoir is already part of the Circulation the way Gm Has it set up! You need #1 1/4inch line & #1 3/4 inch Line, The system bleeds thru the 1/4 inch line & flows back thru the 3/4 line at a slow Pace!:cssNET:

ItalianJoe1

06-21-2007, 07:18 PM

That slightly lowers the flow to the manifold though, and if you use the .040 orifice, then you remove all circulation.

BlilBT

06-21-2007, 09:09 PM

That slightly lowers the flow to the manifold though, and if you use the .040 orifice, then you remove all circulation.

No you don't, I'm running it! If fluid is coming in it has to go out or Pressure would build up & the overflow would be doing it's job! You can take the cap off & see it running thru my Reservoir! As a matter of fact it shots from the front & Hits the back wall Because it's under pressure!:twothumbs The orifice is just to slow down the flow & keep the rest of the system pressurized, Hince self Bleeding! If the fluid didn't circulate thru the reservoir it would'nt bleed the system!;)

Last when you fill the system, You fill it the the Reservoir! So if it didn't drain or circulate with the system why would you fill thru it?

ItalianJoe1

06-21-2007, 09:10 PM

Where do you have the resivior plumbed into the system?

BlilBT

06-21-2007, 09:19 PM

Where do you have the resivior plumbed into the system?

Dude it's the way the Option B works! You get rid of the neck you have (Which is your stock so called Reservoir or exspansion area) & replace it with a Tee Then run 1 side to the Reservoir! I've been running this since it came out, It's all been discusssed thru this Thread! just look back a couple Pages!

ItalianJoe1

06-21-2007, 09:27 PM

Ok, I did that, and never got the air out of the system. Converted back to stock resivior, and its working nice again. Just wondering what I'm missing.

BlilBT

06-21-2007, 09:38 PM

Ok, I did that, and never got the air out of the system. Converted back to stock resivior, and its working nice again. Just wondering what I'm missing.

Did you check to make sure the Inlet & outlet were connected right & that the Tees were on right? Me & LsjPuP are running it, He drives his car every day & has absolutely No Problems! I drove my car to the station & Home, Then refilled it & did it again! Now it maintains half full all the time Or Half empty how ever you want to look at it!

ItalianJoe1

06-21-2007, 09:40 PM

BlilBT

06-21-2007, 09:47 PM

My level was ok, but there wasn't flow through the manifold. If I full-throttled second and third, I would see boost over 19-20psi, and the car would pull timing. Now, its back down to 17psi and running strong. I like the auto-bleeding idea, but I'm not sure why it wasn't working for me. I had the same setup you do.

Just have to Look at it at 1 of the meets! Something had to be wrong, because while maintaining the fill level it was also swirling! Showing that the 3/4 return line was reflowing the fluid!

ItalianJoe1

06-21-2007, 09:54 PM

you T'd into the hose right where the stock fill neck is right? where did you run the 3/4 line? My only thought is that it was too high and was getting airlocked.

BlilBT

06-21-2007, 10:03 PM

you T'd into the hose right where the stock fill neck is right? where did you run the 3/4 line? My only thought is that it was too high and was getting airlocked.

1) If you have the stock endplate it wont work(Dual pass endplate requried)
2) The center Port is the in from H/E or H/Exchanger's!
3) The top & Bottom ports get tied together with the 1st Tee
4) Then a small piece of Hose, Then the 2nd Tee(Which is the 1 that takes the place of the stock Neck!
5) 2 ports left on the Tee 1 goes to the New Reservoir & the other goes to the Pump for the return trip thru the H/E
6) the 1/4 inch line goes from the top of the stock H/E to the 1/4 inlet port on the Reservoir!
Done!:twothumbs

Oh & don't forget to change your laminova's around or it wont work!