Well, as some of you may know Selfinfliction was banned from this site several times which is a shame considering he is definitely a forerunner in power developement now. Just to let you know with the rough tune stated below at 22psi, still breaking in the motor on low boost :lol:, he netted a 12.37 quarter mile time with horrible 60ft times too! The only internal modifications thus far from what I'm told are the Mahle 8.5:1 pistons for $400!
He is some info. was given asked was requested to post over here.

We used a turbonetics gt-k 450 and it's putting down 364whp with the sketchy tune on it now. we're not really worried about the hp at the moment, the main goal is to get another 40-50wtq out of it. sorry i can't get any pictures yet until the thing is completely finished.

i never got around to posting anything on ss.net cause i got tired of making accounts. could you post my times and info over there for me, just to get the info out.

If you guys know anything about the turbo being used, it is the latest creation from Turbonetics with faster spool times and the ability to belt out 450hp. It has special thermal coatings and a specially designed compressor wheel which permitts nill to none compressor surge and ultimate spool times. Very nice setup. I'll keep everyone posted if I receive more info. He is posting on our sister forums, and I'm sure most of you know who it is.

But wasnt he saying the thing has lag big time in his post on red line??

Here's some more info on it I just found out. He has replaced the pistons, headgasket, straight pipe on exhaust, and put a turbo on. There was no headwork performed to the car either. If he did, his numbers would be insane! Turbo is spooled at approximately 3100rpm, and takes off like a rocketship there after.

But wasnt he saying the thing has lag big time in his post on red line??

I'd say with the size of the turbo and a rough tune a fully spooled turbo of that size at 3100 rpms is not too shabby. I'm sure with some tuning and work, that timw would come down a little more. Stock cams and head too, so there is definitely a lot more airflow to be had as well. ;)

Also to note, the 115+mph trap speed he had! I still wouldn't like the lag, even though it flies at the track.

I could deal with the lag as it's not that bad for a turbo. Shit with some axles, a lot better tune since his is rough, and some Hoosier QTP's 11's wouldn't be out of the question at all. Now, how well the tranny holds up is another question all together!

I dont think the tranny will last long at all. Id really like to see one with a little smaller turbo and see what it would do. That thing wouldnt be to streetable like that if the lag is that bad though.

I think the GT-K 350 is what you would be looking for then. It's a little smaller, would spool quicker, and push around 350ish hp. A tubular manfold instead of a log style one would certainly help spool times as well.

I dont think the tranny will last long at all. Id really like to see one with a little smaller turbo and see what it would do. That thing wouldnt be to streetable like that if the lag is that bad though.
I worry about these transmissions as well, but if you think for a sec, that is the one part people on these sites seem not to break....yet. They feel so weak, but I haven't read any substantial "transmission nuking" stories to be any more concerned.

Anyone happen to have a link to a compressor map for that specific turbo?

I worry about these transmissions as well, but if you think for a sec, that is the one part people on these sites seem not to break....yet. They feel so weak, but I haven't read any substantial "transmission nuking" stories to be any more concerned.

There have been cracked cases already and some blown up diffs.

True, but it seems like they are abuse cases, such as extreme wheel hop. Nothing internally damaged such as input/output shafts. What I mean to say, is that raw power isn't what will break these transmissions, its more of an inexperienced driver with no support mods.

There have been cracked cases already and some blown up diffs.

And the one Canadian guy who's shit just grenaded after what 10,000 miles? And he was stock. The tranny's suck.

Many blown trannies...
and a certain someone to remain nameless broke into the low 11's and on the second pass blew up the tranny in 2nd gear.

Well, I can't find a compressor map for that specific turbo, but according to HP ratings (which are flow, not efficiency ratings) it seems similar in size to a T4 or GT30 maybe?

bet this thing is a highway beast, any vids of it running?

Many blown trannies...
and a certain someone to remain nameless broke into the low 11's and on the second pass blew up the tranny in 2nd gear.


What were this "nameless" persons mods?

You guys crack me up, how the hell long does it take you guys to get to 3100rpms..? I don't get all this turbo lag talk.

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/turbo_gtk.htm

Here is the link to the turbo's info. I couldn't find compressor maps quite yet.

Many blown trannies...
and a certain someone to remain nameless broke into the low 11's and on the second pass blew up the tranny in 2nd gear.


i have to ask on this but i see people doing this all the time.. what is the point of all this "top secret" type bullshit people are doing on this forum with mods and crap.. its a forum to help everybody not hide shit.. its a car.. not building nuclear weapons.. .. my 2 cent rant.

I think its more to do with the design of your own system, tyring and failing at different setups, to finally accomplish a design with your own research and money, then having it cloned by every moron from here to the moon, without you ever seeing a dollar or even a thanks for all that research. My 2 cents.

I think its more to do with the design of your own system, tyring and failing at different setups, to finally accomplish a design with your own research and money, then having it cloned by every moron from here to the moon, without you ever seeing a dollar or even a thanks for all that research. My 2 cents.


most people on here cant create a company and design the # of the demands that would be wanted by the masses so thats really means nothing.... and its like i said.. this isnt building a nuclear weapon.. anything can be put on anycar if you really want to.. people act like creating a cure for aids.. shit.. just take a turbo or blower to a shop and say i want this on that.. bam its done.. i mean hell.. i know millwrights that can do all this "top secret" stuff in a matter of a day or 2.. lol

now the tuning side of things is different.. but putting piece A with piece B is simple

most people on here cant create a company and design the # of the demands that would be wanted by the masses so thats really means nothing.... and its like i said.. this isnt building a nuclear weapon.. anything can be put on anycar if you really want to.. people act like creating a cure for aids.. shit.. just take a turbo or blower to a shop and say i want this on that.. bam its done.. i mean hell.. i know millrights that can do all this "top secret" stuff in a matter of a day or 2.. lol

now the tuning side of things is different.. but putting piece A with piece B is simple
Without going too off topic, and no intentional flaming intended, building a turbo swap or twincharge kit requires more planning, design and research then just going to a store and pointing out things. Nobody here is in any capacity of mass producing any "kits" so I think thats kinda unrelated.

It comes down to the point that in general, people are lazy and if they find an easy way out of designing a turbo swap/twincharge system they are going to take advantage of it. Is it fair to the person that had motivation to do it? No. But thats the key to this, that person, if he feels threatened of people cloning his hard work, can refuse to release details about his project. Cloning others hard work has been happening with tuning ever since HPT released support for these vehicles, and it will definetly happen with power adders.

I think the real issue people have been keeping stuff on the down low is that there are so many pricks on here lately it isn't funny. Criticism is fine to a certain extent, but some people get out of hand with it. I think the true performance guru's on here have had enough trying to justify their ideas and ambitions with all the people that can only bitch and moan about things they have no apparent idea about, and can't even look up or research simple concepts. I feel honored to be one of those people in touch with some of those "underground" projects personnally. I know it's no nuclear design, trust me on that one, but having the only one made by your own hands is something special and definitely something I can respect.

Without going too off topic, and no intentional flaming intended, building a turbo swap or twincharge kit requires more planning, design and research then just going to a store and pointing out things. Nobody here is in any capacity of mass producing any "kits" so I think thats kinda unrelated.

It comes down to the point that in general, people are lazy and if they find an easy way out of designing a turbo swap/twincharge system they are going to take advantage of it. Is it fair to the person that had motivation to do it? No. But thats the key to this, that person, if he feels threatened of people cloning his hard work, can refuse to release details about his project. Cloning others hard work has been happening with tuning ever since HPT released support for these vehicles, and it will definetly happen with power adders.


no flaming taking.. im just trying to get an idea whats the deal with it? more out of wondering then anything.. im long time corral.net member (mustang) and we have alway been open to ideas and what not.. whether the concept will work or not.. i just have noticed a clear division in the type of members on this page.. 1 side that chitters between themselves of new modding paths and then the other side that just have no idea about cars in general that just want to go faster....

well the person I'm talking about asked to keep the info off the net... so I"m doing so... and for what I"m doing, due to the negative shit I got from 90% of the dicks on here, I'm keeping it to myself until its done... I don't like being copied and neither do some of the other guys.. selfinfliction would tell you everything you needed to know, but due to certain over moderating moderators.. he won't post here anymore...
and thats my rant.
but I'm glad to hear someone got the turbo thing working somewhat right...

Its true that the pistons can be had for 450 and the head gasket for 100, then you have a bulletproof motor, but then its gonna cost you over 800dlls to install them. Thats where I was like DAM, then you gotta worry about tranny which can blow at any moment.

I worry about these transmissions as well, but if you think for a sec, that is the one part people on these sites seem not to break....yet. They feel so weak, but I haven't read any substantial "transmission nuking" stories to be any more concerned.

nuked mine, and i came out of the womb driving a manual, so it wasnt driver- just not built for race

He is using 60lb injectors for setup as well, and they working great for IDC's.

so what can we do to strengthen the tranny then? we seem to have all other aspects covered for the most part but nothing
for tranny yet?

well the person I'm talking about asked to keep the info off the net... so I"m doing so... and for what I"m doing, due to the negative shit I got from 90% of the dicks on here, I'm keeping it to myself until its done... I don't like being copied and neither do some of the other guys.. selfinfliction would tell you everything you needed to know, but due to certain over moderating moderators.. he won't post here anymore...
and thats my rant.
but I'm glad to hear someone got the turbo thing working somewhat right...


hit the nail on the head. i wanted to make this account to get out the info to everyone though cause it's pretty cool :) and from what you were saying abou t the dicks and nay-sayers on here, that's the reaosn there will be no pics and no videos until the car is completely done. the only thing i will do is post my timeslips and if i get around to it i will actually scan them.

don't have any flow maps for the turbo, i don't even know if this model of turbo is for sell yet. we got ours through the normal backdoor sources.

for the lagging, we're not having turbo lag issues, it's an actual engine bogging issue way before the turbo even gets to lagging. the lag will be gone once we get the progressive nitrous kit on there. we'll be using it at about a 25-30 shot to get the turbo spooled up (it'll be more if necessary) but i'm not a huge nitrous fan so i don't think we'll be on 75-100 shot.... then again the quest for speed is never done :cssNET:

Its true that the pistons can be had for 450 and the head gasket for 100, then you have a bulletproof motor, but then its gonna cost you over 800dlls to install them. Thats where I was like DAM, then you gotta worry about tranny which can blow at any moment.

the tranny seems to be fine, of course we're having clutch issues with the spec 2+, i really wish someone at gm would figure out the exact cause of it. cause it done it with my stock clutch, and is doing it now with the spec.

damn man, I"m still on my stock clutch for now, still holding up fine though some how, but I"m holding off on the clutch install until I do the motor swap and clutch issues are figured out,,, I have a feeling its either the slave cylinder or hydraulic system all together is too weak for an aftermarket clutch, but I"m in the process of having a new one designed through cobalt-addiction and an unnamed company.. I'll let you know how it works whenever I get it back.

well the person I'm talking about asked to keep the info off the net... so I"m doing so... and for what I"m doing, due to the negative shit I got from 90% of the dicks on here, I'm keeping it to myself until its done... I don't like being copied and neither do some of the other guys.. selfinfliction would tell you everything you needed to know, but due to certain over moderating moderators.. he won't post here anymore...
and thats my rant.
but I'm glad to hear someone got the turbo thing working somewhat right...


Stay on topic. You talk about people starting shit and being negative and you are the one fucking starting it. :nono:

Stay on topic. You talk about people starting shit and being negative and you are the one fucking starting it. :nono:


Please watch the language. :lol:

Unless you want to be banned.

Stay on topic. You talk about people starting shit and being negative and you are the one fucking starting it. :nono:

Off topic: Does something in that post bother you?

On topic: In any event, all things aside I am glad that if this is a true someone tried it and it works very well, expect to see cars dipping in the 12's all day long with this interesting news once basics are worked out. I can't see myself doing this to my car. I'm going to try hard on the S/C route to make power still. I don't have a need to have a car in the low 12's that badly.

I"ll be staying with the s.c for now after I do the motor swap, but if it don't get me in at least the low 12's... I'm rippin that bitch out

the tranny seems to be fine, of course we're having clutch issues with the spec 2+, i really wish someone at gm would figure out the exact cause of it. cause it done it with my stock clutch, and is doing it now with the spec.
The tranny will let you down sooner than later. We discovered that the input\output shafts are made out of cast iron, making them a weak link. The other parts are made out of decent steel and will hold up better. There is also the option of treating your tranny parts for more strength.
LSD and input\output shaft replacement will be a must for bigger power.:)

Self, this is a dumb question but did you guys zero out the torque management in the “ignition vs. torque menu” (assuming you are using HPT)? As you probably know timing is retarded to control torque during launches and shifting, and I was thinking since you said it was an engine problem as far as bogging that it might be a torque management issue. I could imagine stock TM settings for the roots-blower being over-kill on the short-lagged turbo.

I think the main problem is the lower compression and less boost at low rpms...
ve tuning yay!!.... computer is at loss on that one I'm willling to bet

Self, this is a dumb question but did you guys zero out the torque management in the “ignition vs. torque menu” (assuming you are using HPT)? As you probably know timing is retarded to control torque during launches and shifting, and I was thinking since you said it was an engine problem as far as bogging that it might be a torque management issue. I could imagine stock TM settings for the roots-blower being over-kill on the short-lagged turbo.

Damn you beat me to it Tofu!

I think the main problem is the lower compression and less boost at low rpms...
ve tuning yay!!.... computer is at loss on that one I'm willling to bet


Oh I completely agree with you on that. 8.5:1 compression with stock displacement and limited boost in the lower RPM’s is definitely going need some assistance getting out of the hole. But based on the timeslip details he posted it certainly makes up for it when it spools haha.

idk i looked at the specs fo the turbo and spooling at 3100 is not that bad. That turbos is probably close to the equivalent of a 20g and my roomate says something like that on a WRX (which he owns) won't spool untill 4200. You guys gotta remember, this is a whole new realm, we're not in superchargers with low end torque anymore.

Oh no I'm not arguing that 3100rpms for 100% boost is a laggy; that's actually pretty quick in relation to, like you said, a 20g turbo on some other 4cylinder vehicles I've seen. But nonetheless it is no roots blower so something is going to be needed to take up the slack down low especially since it's a full point lower in compression. That's why I was thinking if the TM was left untouched and the computer is retarding the timing still for launch control that it would create a bogging effect. I'm sure Self and his group looked into that already though. :)

Self, this is a dumb question but did you guys zero out the torque management in the “ignition vs. torque menu” (assuming you are using HPT)? As you probably know timing is retarded to control torque during launches and shifting, and I was thinking since you said it was an engine problem as far as bogging that it might be a torque management issue. I could imagine stock TM settings for the roots-blower being over-kill on the short-lagged turbo.
Elimination of the SCIP sensor may also have an effect on air/fueling. It's one of four sensors used to build an intake manifold calculation of incoming air. Eliminating it lowers the precision of that calculation.

You know I was just thinking about the SCIP sensor as well lol. I’m assuming a custom intake manifold was made in place of the roots blower and was wondering what would happen if the SCIP was removed. Certainly new territory as Twincharged still used his on his twincharger set-up, but I wonder what kind of effect this is going to have on the PCM. Mainly because I don’t *think* I saw any SCIP config settings in HPT to simply bypass the readings. I know Chris mentioned awhile back that SCIP DTC’s could be turned off with the software, but I got rid of my SS/SC before the update so I’m not sure if it’s in there now. I wonder if the SCIP could some how be integrated onto the fabbed intake or piping and adjusted to get a more accurate reading of airflow % and IAT temps…..Heck now that I think about it, I wonder how Self has the MAF rigged if he is even using it now?

You know I was just thinking about the SCIP sensor as well lol. I’m assuming a custom intake manifold was made in place of the roots blower and was wondering what would happen if the SCIP was removed. Certainly new territory as Twincharged still used his on his twincharger set-up, but I wonder what kind of effect this is going to have on the PCM. Mainly because I don’t *think* I saw any SCIP config settings in HPT to simply bypass the readings. I know Chris mentioned awhile back that SCIP DTC’s could be turned off with the software, but I got rid of my SS/SC before the update so I’m not sure if it’s in there now. I wonder if the SCIP could some how be integrated onto the fabbed intake or piping and adjusted to get a more accurate reading of airflow % and IAT temps…..Heck now that I think about it, I wonder how Self has the MAF rigged if he is even using it now?
SCIP "should" be able to show positive manifold pressure, however the DTC is programmed to fail if voltage of the SCIP is 2.5v(atmospheric) or above. What I'm trying to figure out is, by disabling the DTC, will the PCM still use readings above 2.5v to calculate airflow? The reference voltage is 5v which makes the SCIP a 2-2.5 bar MAP sensor.

I would love to know how Twincharged from the redline forums set his up, my guess is he MAP clamped it to 2.5 volts. However if SCIP differs too much from expected readings based off of the TPS, MAF, and MAP you "may" put the car into limp mode.

he isent experincing lag with his setup it is called boost performance

bosst performance is how long it takes before the turbo starts to build boost
turbo lag is from how long it takes to reach full boost once the turbo begins to build boost

one of te best ways to really get rid of poor boost performance is injenct nitrus into the turbine sside of the turbo

john

Selinfliction didn't make a custom manifold, he just fabbed a TB adapter plate and mounted it where the blower used to sit.

he isent experincing lag with his setup it is called boost performance

bosst performance is how long it takes before the turbo starts to build boost
turbo lag is from how long it takes to reach full boost once the turbo begins to build boost

one of te best ways to really get rid of poor boost performance is injenct nitrus into the turbine sside of the turbo

john


I thought that was called boost threshold? Same thing it seems!

If he is experiencing boost threshold all the way to 3,100 RPMs then the new gt-k 450 is a piece of crap lol.

I thought that was called boost threshold? Same thing it seems!

If he is experiencing boost threshold all the way to 3,100 RPMs then the new gt-k 450 is a piece of crap lol.


oh no that turbo is bad ass, our issues are with the engine, not with turbo lag, boost management or whatever you want to call it. there's an actual problem with the car. remember that this car has blown two engines during the blower swap escapades i went through earlier this year.

we'll add some more timing (as someone suggested from the rl forum) before the spool to get it up faster, and we might go ahead and throw in a cam and valve springs over the winter.

but for now we need to find out what the problem with the bogging is.

back on the turbo though... the gt-k 450, is simply bad ass it. you hear a slight whistle and almost instantly the car will throw you back in the seat pretty hard (unless on street tires, then you just put up a nice smoke screen) and it's not going to spool too much faster than 2900-3000rpm cause this is a pretty big turbo. this is also the reason my timeslip is the way it is. we take off slow, the turbo f'n rocks then we bleed off alot of boost and it starts all over. once we get a decent tune on it i might crank everything up to what we're shooting for and let someone else drive the car to see what it's capable of since i only have a couple dozen runs at the track under my belt, maybe my brother can pull a much better time than i could with it.

where can you get mahle 8.5:1 pistons for $400???

I would suggest cams. The LSJ cams are the smallest to second smallest of all 4 Ecotec motors.

Looky. http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/downloads/ECOtec_CAMSHAFT_%20INFO_SHEET.pdf

where can you get mahle 8.5:1 pistons for $400???

from our supplier. we get everything at nearly their cost since my dad's shop has been buying form them since the 80's

well the person I'm talking about asked to keep the info off the net... so I"m doing so... and for what I"m doing, due to the negative shit I got from 90% of the dicks on here, I'm keeping it to myself until its done... I don't like being copied and neither do some of the other guys.. selfinfliction would tell you everything you needed to know, but due to certain over moderating moderators.. he won't post here anymore...
and thats my rant.
but I'm glad to hear someone got the turbo thing working somewhat right...
sorry you and him had a bad time on the forum ..... if the 11 sec car is still s/c then i would like more info on the car without posting it

oh no that turbo is bad ass, our issues are with the engine, not with turbo lag, boost management or whatever you want to call it. there's an actual problem with the car. remember that this car has blown two engines during the blower swap escapades i went through earlier this year.

we'll add some more timing (as someone suggested from the rl forum) before the spool to get it up faster, and we might go ahead and throw in a cam and valve springs over the winter.

but for now we need to find out what the problem with the bogging is.

back on the turbo though... the gt-k 450, is simply bad ass it. you hear a slight whistle and almost instantly the car will throw you back in the seat pretty hard (unless on street tires, then you just put up a nice smoke screen) and it's not going to spool too much faster than 2900-3000rpm cause this is a pretty big turbo. this is also the reason my timeslip is the way it is. we take off slow, the turbo f'n rocks then we bleed off alot of boost and it starts all over. once we get a decent tune on it i might crank everything up to what we're shooting for and let someone else drive the car to see what it's capable of since i only have a couple dozen runs at the track under my belt, maybe my brother can pull a much better time than i could with it.
bogging happened to me when i upgraded my dsm ...... its the air intake way to much loose screw (or on the other hand could be a clog in the exhaust)

You need Fuel to spool the Turbo. Richen it up down low and see what happens
If the air fuel is too lean it won't spool
also play with your timing most cars like lower timing to get thing going.
Or a 2 step might be an idea!


it's running pretty rich wot cause it was smoking on the track, someone else mentioned the timing we'll try that next day we can get on the dyno.

bogging happened to me when i upgraded my dsm ...... its the air intake way to much loose screw (or on the other hand could be a clog in the exhaust)

definitely not a clogged exhaust because it's a straight pipe..

A turbo thread I actually like :)

What's a 2 stage? Is that the same as a hybrid turbo with vanes that change pitch?

I believe he means a 2 step rev limiter.

Oh, lol sorry.