This a question to the people who tune their own cars. How much timing do you guys run? I'm currently running 25 degrees of timing, but I don't know if adding another degree or 2 will help. Also say your running 25 degrees of timing, when you set your spark map, do you set it to run 25 degrees as soon as possible or do you gradually increase it? I have mine set run 18 degrees from 3500-4500, 20 from 4500-5500, 21 from 5500-5900, then 22 from 5900-6100, 23 from 6100-6400, 24 from 6400-6600 and 25 from 6600-7000.

:( Bump

Come on people, this forum is for help with tuning...
:cussing: AND I AIN'T GETTING ANY HELP!!!

hold on I"ll post one of the timing maps I ran... but this is my setup with meth.. so if you aren't using that or 100+ octane do not use it.,.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j206/black06g85/Screen01-1.jpg

Why do I see 0's? Is that normal/safe? What is the purpose of that? NVM i'm stupid....I had a brain fart

also what I have now on pump gas daily driver is just a gm stg II timing map... nice and safe..
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j206/black06g85/Screen02.jpg

wow, only 15 degrees of timing at redline. What a difference

I only 15.5 at 7000 on my pump gas tune, it sucks the cars hate a lot of timing without meth injection or high octane gas

But I noticed some people on here are runing 20+ degrees of timing on pump gas unless they are bsing. Blown4banger, did the heat exchanger and dual pass intercooler end plate make it easier to raise timing?

Not really, for short term yes, but long term I've noticed that it doesn't seem to matter what is done, it will eventually get up to around 160-170 degrees. I made a 20-140 run on the freeway, and it got up to about 165 and just stayed their from like 115-140 without raising anymore, before the dual pass it would just continue to climb, the highest I saw mine was 201 and that was a 20-120 run! I was talking to a guy with water meth and he said the same thing, it would climb and level off at like 160-170. Its wierd.

hmm odd.. when I had the water meth it would only get to about 135-140 and drop off immediatly when I let off the gas

Don't forget, blown is in AZ. It's HOT HOT HOT there. But wow, 160-170 and no knock? Jesus, as soon as my car hits 80-85 i get knock.

hmm odd.. when I had the water meth it would only get to about 135-140 and drop off immediatly when I let off the gas
On a 20 mph to 140 mph run it would only get up to 140? I've talked to like 2 or 3 guys with water meth that said they get up to around 160-170 and stay there. After my 20-140 run it took about 30-45 seconds to drop from 167 to 82 degrees.

yeah man,,, I've done top speed runs and only seen a max of @150 degrees... then once I got outta boost it would drop pretty quickly...
but I was also spraying through the blower which cooled that off too in the process... worked pretty damn good to me.

yeah man,,, I've done top speed runs and only seen a max of @150 degrees... then once I got outta boost it would drop pretty quickly...
but I was also spraying through the blower which cooled that off too in the process... worked pretty damn good to me.
I'm gonna get the CryO2 HE sprayer, intake bulb, and an extra serge tank. Then I MIGHT spray meth after the blower. I just don't like the idea of sprayin shit into the blower, so I'll just use a spacer and spray it just after the blower.

I thought you were going to stay away from the meth.

well I know someone just came out with a kit like that... saw it at c/a on friday, but I"ll be sprayin nitrous now, so things will get much cooler... lol.... but as I stated I saw not one single abnormal thing with my s.c after runnin it for almost 10000 miles.... and I was running real meth.. 50/50 with distilled water... (not washer fluid)

and mephis... you saw my timing maps for pump gas... and I had no KR.... no bs here..

With meth, so it doesn't count because meth increases the fuel octane.

EDIT* Also unless you have the IAT and ECT adders disabled, you will be running more than 25 degrees of timing. With my adders the timing table says 13 degrees, but after scanning it, the histogram says 15.5-16 degrees. Just a thought, you might have actually been running like 27 or 28 degrees of timing.

yeah it was at 25 deg flat across the board at WOT... checked with aeroforce, and logged with hp tuners.... Ill see if I can post a screen shot up tonight of one of those runs

Man its impossible to run 20 psi with 91 octane only. I fought with my car til 2:30 AM last night, and couldn't get the damn thing to stop knocking! I'm running 91 octane ONLY, and even while trying to run 15 degrees of timing it would still get 4-6 degrees of KR. Its just too much boost and heat for such shitty gas. However I was SD tuning last night and WOW huge difference! I'm now running a commanded AFR of 11.8 and my injectors are running at 85% duty cycle. It fells WAY faster, the only problem is the LTFTs are all fucked up at lower rpm, in PE mode it runs like a beast.... that knocks from shitty gas :lol:

Holly crap! I just looked at my tables and im running like 6 degrees of timing at 3800 rpm and only increases to 12 at redline!!!!!!! yeaaaah My car is going ot be muuuuch faster when I get it back. Im gonna put 15 degrees at 7k

its interesting that you didnt smooth your tables or "ramp up" to 25degrees. on my 2.4L w/ 91 octane im pushing 24degrees by 6000 by ramping up and running about 13.2 mixtures.

Where is this commanded AFR we are all talking about. which table is it.

Holly crap! I just looked at my tables and im running like 6 degrees of timing at 3800 rpm and only increases to 12 at redline!!!!!!! yeaaaah My car is going ot be muuuuch faster when I get it back. Im gonna put 15 degrees at 7k

give your car what it wants, not what you think it should have... increase by 1-2, test, repeat.

if you just use octane to cover up the problems, you could just set your timing to 50 and wish for the best!

No, I know you had 25 which is legit because you have alll the suppourting mods, plus race gas. There were 2 others on here that told me 25 degrees, 93 octane...or 94.....

And you were supposed to give me a ride in your car....you never did :( I wanted to see what 300whp in a coablt is like

And you were supposed to give me a ride in your car....you never did :( I wanted to see what 300whp in a coablt is like
I could give you a ride in my car :lol:

But I noticed some people on here are runing 20+ degrees of timing on pump gas unless they are bsing. Blown4banger, did the heat exchanger and dual pass intercooler end plate make it easier to raise timing?
The PCM will "octane-learn" and it actually only uses values set between high octane and low octane. You can increase it to 50 degrees across the board, see knock at first, and then it will disappear.

On a race tune, I have octane learn disabled by copying the high octane to the low octane table.

I'm not so sure about that. It even says on HP Tuners, that the low octane table is the table used in the case of MAF failure. Meaning the car isn't using the MAF sensor, but rather the VE table.

wait til you get to see what a 450 whp cobalt is like..... it's coming... and soon....
and I was running pump gas (93 mobil) and 70% meth (on the meth inj of course).... car ran sick like that,, never any knock... except when I let off the gas between 1st and 2nd (and that was only like .5 degrees).... car was beasting... but after seeing so many blow up... I took off most the mods until my motor is finished... then all hell is gonna break loose... just hopefully not the tranny of course..

oh yeah and my "octane learn" was zeroed out across the board, but I also did run my full race tune on the street, and never had a problem with about 8000-10000 miles like that.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j206/black06g85/Screen03-1.jpg
here;s a pic of a run with it.... don't mind the parameter... I "disabled" them to keep some trade secrets

:wtf: 33% IDC at 6700 rpm!?!? Mine are at least 72% by then!

wrong PID on that.... ,,, that was just a test run setting up the new laptop... I was really at @82% and up with the 60's third hr I hit mid 80's

and that was an old log run too... displayed are my new settings... but they weren't used on that run which is why you see some data missing... I might have a newer one let me check

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j206/black06g85/Screen04-1.jpg

better?

my o2 sensors were shot for this run (I had run c12 through the car a week before)

as you can see 1st gear traction was non existant... lol

Looks like you got some knock on there. Also I notice your IAT2 was 135 degrees after only like 5 seconds at WOT.

Okay, Now I have two Qs, where is the Commanded AFR and where do you disable the Octane learn, Just tell me the name of the tables!

Commanded AFR your going to want to change your PE table EDIT* Engine>Fuel Control>Power Enrich>then go to the one right underneith where it says HOT, its something like PE multiplier. Say your PE multiplyer is at 1.30, then your commanded AFR is roughly 11.3. Here
1.30 = ~11.3
1.29 = ~11.4
1.28 = ~11.5
1.27 = ~11.6
1.26 = ~11.7
1.25 = ~11.8

You disable octane learn by going to: Engine>Spark Control>Timing Advance>High Octane. Then highlight ALL of the cells in the high octane map and hit control>c, then go to the low octane map, highlight all the cells and hit control>v. If you did it right, most of the cells in your low octane map should change into pretty colors. And thats how its done.

Looks like you got some knock on there. Also I notice your IAT2 was 135 degrees after only like 5 seconds at WOT.

yeah because that was my 5th or 6th run in a row... and I had just driven an hour and a half in traffic from manhattan before that.... not bad I should say... and also that was the 3rd pass on that log run..

and with PE table it depends on what your stoich afr is at for those multipliers to work correctly.. I know with the Intense tunes they change it from 14.69xxx to 14.7988 or something like that, so your PE commanded would be a bit different if you are modifiying it.

and with the knock I was getting it was 2.3 degrees when I shifted for some reason... I think it had something to do with the solid mounts in my car

I'm not so sure about that. It even says on HP Tuners, that the low octane table is the table used in the case of MAF failure. Meaning the car isn't using the MAF sensor, but rather the VE table.
It is used as a default table in certain emmissions related failures.

Log "knock learn factor" as a PID and it will show you how close to your high octane table you're actually running. Values of 1 will be the high octane table value. Values closer to 0 are approaching your low octane table. If you have values of 0.8 for instance, it shows you pushed too much timing and the PCM will be pulling it for that cell regardless of knock detected for a certain period of time.

The PCM moves timing towards the high octane table at a rate 10 times slower than it will learn low values due to knock.

Edit: I can't spell

On both my race gas tunes, I have the high octane map copied to the low octane. On my pump gas tune I copied the high octane to the low octane and subtracted 2 degrees from the low octane.

OK this is the tune i run for my daily driver (I don't have a weekend tune YET)....You can See my mods my vBGarage (http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=6835):

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m301/M88ArRamadi/M88ArRamadisTimingtables.jpg

I'm pretty sure I have pleanty more potential ;)

Yep thats about how much timing I run on the pump gas tune. Its no fun, yeah its fast, but with a simple reflash it could be CRAZY fast! I couldn't take it so I flashed my race gas tune on it and threw in several gallons of 101 octane. WOO HOOO!!! 25 DEGREES OF TIMING FTW!!! :D NO TRACTION IN FIRST OR SECOND FTW!!! :D Clutch slip FTL :(