Post your technical questions here!

Cam specs for your stage 2 cams? Do you offer a stage 3, or are your stage 2's good enough for 11's in the 1/4 mile? Thanks

Dyno Charts, Gains?

- Dyno's are on the part description available by clicking the link in the GB thread. Please note that even though there was only a 15.3WHP difference gain, this was during the time HPTuners was non-existent. We forsee better results with the advent of HPtuners and cam tuning. (You will run richer with these cams, therefore tuning is a must!)

- Our TriFlow mode specs are released for the first time! Please note that our TriFlow Technology contains a primary and secondary intake lobe profile. Revolutionary first in camshaft technology.

PRIMARY INTAKE
ADV
264* 418L
@.050
209*

SECONDARY INTAKE
ADV
256* 417L
@.050
202*


PRIMARY EXHAUST
ADV
256* 417L
@.050
202*

- Dyno's are on the part description available by clicking the link in the GB thread. Please note that even though there was only a 15.3WHP difference gain, this was during the time HPTuners was non-existent. We forsee better results with the advent of HPtuners and cam tuning. (You will run richer with these cams, therefore tuning is a must!)

- Our TriFlow mode specs are released for the first time! Please note that our TriFlow Technology contains a primary and secondary intake lobe profile. Revolutionary first in camshaft technology.

PRIMARY INTAKE
ADV
264* 418L
@.050
209*

SECONDARY INTAKE
ADV
256* 417L
@.050
202*


PRIMARY EXHAUST
ADV
256* 417L
@.050
202*

Thank you! Will you be offering a stage 3? If someone wanted to run 11's with their lsj (keeping a supercharger as the power adder), will these cams be aggressive enough?
What is the power band and recommended shift point with these cams? Thanks!

Thank you! Will you be offering a stage 3? If someone wanted to run 11's with their lsj (keeping a supercharger as the power adder), will these cams be aggressive enough?
What is the power band and recommended shift point with these cams? Thanks!

A stage 3 camshaft is not available nor in development.

The camshafts are as aggressive as possible without having the stock ECU completely reject the camshaft profile.

My motor is stock internals with GMS2.

What kind of gain will I obtain?

This is a extremely difficult to answer without leading you towards false promises. From my experience with the camshafts that we've sold to date and the customer feedback, the majority of gains are only reportedly from a pure STOCK SS/SC application. The gains ranged from 11.2WHP to 15.3WHP being the max. A gain from a Stage 2 perspective would be a total guess, which I am not inclined to do. ;)

What HP will these cams be good for future developement of my motor?

Absolutely. They are a compounding modificaiton that can only benefit two-fold from additional modifications that involve air transition and efficiency. Our cams, on a stock LSJ, increase boost pressure from 12psi to 14-15psi. In some cases all the way up to 17-18psi. This is due to our TriFlow technology. No boost by-pass, all camshaft. It's truly remarkable.

Do valve springs need to be changed to ensure there is no binding?

Valve springs do NOT need to be changed for our Stage 2 profile pending the STOCK rev limiter is maintained. Stage 2 modifications AND any revolution limiter modifcations past stock we strongly recommend changing valve springs. Think about this: You are tearing into the engine to change camshafts, you should be judging whether or not you would need to change valve springs at this point in time vs. performing the work again. Remember, we sell AND rent the tools required to do this in your driveway (only if you know 150% what you're doing or have someone who is 170% capable (as we don't supply instructions)). (but we STRONGLY recommend you take it to the dealer/performance shop)

Are these cams the same grind as victory_red_SS?

No. His cams are an entirely different can of worms. His will not work with the stock ECM, In case you were wondering, these specs are not released and the camshafts are not available for purchase.

How quickly do you need my stock cams back?

Stock cams to be returned are to be returned at least 30 days from point of shipping of your JBP Triflow cams. This helps keep core stock up.

Thankyou.

You're Welcome!!

- Dyno's are on the part description available by clicking the link in the GB thread. Please note that even though there was only a 15.3WHP difference gain, this was during the time HPTuners was non-existent. We forsee better results with the advent of HPtuners and cam tuning. (You will run richer with these cams, therefore tuning is a must!)

- Our TriFlow mode specs are released for the first time! Please note that our TriFlow Technology contains a primary and secondary intake lobe profile. Revolutionary first in camshaft technology.

PRIMARY INTAKE
ADV
264* 418L
@.050
209*

SECONDARY INTAKE
ADV
256* 417L
@.050
202*


PRIMARY EXHAUST
ADV
256* 417L
@.050
202*

Dude I searched everywhere and I dont see those charts...maybe I'm blind lol

Are you just regrinding the stock cams? If so how are you increasing the lift and/or duration? I know you have been holding back on releasing your cam specs, but what are you actually doing with these? I'm not trying to attack or bash your product, I just want to know what people are paying for and where the power gains are intended to be.

We gave customers two options. We are going to offer both a stock camshaft regrind OR a grind from brand new billets ($220CDN) option.

With regards to our hydraulic roller setup, the principal behind increasing lift with a regrind is such that the removal of material from the base circle of the camshaft increases lift on the peak of the lobe.

With a regrind, limitations of profiling are imposed and we don't want to promote premature lifter wear, so our grind is both conservative for the ECM and Valvetrain. However, in contrast its essentially the best application for a stock ECM.

Absolutely. They are a compounding modificaiton that can only benefit two-fold from additional modifications that involve air transition and efficiency. Our cams, on a stock LSJ, increase boost pressure from 12psi to 14-15psi. In some cases all the way up to 17-18psi. This is due to our TriFlow technology. No boost by-pass, all camshaft. It's truly remarkable.

Thanks for your help so far, however I'm a little confused. You don't want your cam to "increase" boost. Atleast in the w-body world, you do a cam to open up flow, and help move more air through the motor. My goal would be to actually "lose" boost, meaning I see less boost after the cams. To make power you need to move air. If boost pressure increases, that means that I would be at ~24+psi after your cams! Am I just misunderstanding?

Dude I searched everywhere and I dont see those charts...maybe I'm blind lol

You are not blind. Apparently they've been removed by Irfan (our webmaster). I'll see that he posts them up again under the product description of our website.

Thanks for your help so far, however I'm a little confused. You don't want your cam to "increase" boost. Atleast in the w-body world, you do a cam to open up flow, and help move more air through the motor. My goal would be to actually "lose" boost, meaning I see less boost after the cams. To make power you need to move air. If boost pressure increases, that means that I would be at ~24+psi after your cams! Am I just misunderstanding?

First, Consider all things relative. The cars that experience an increase in boost are completely stock. The phenomenon of boost increase from the camshaft is due to our TriFlow technology, not a pressure vessel. Cars that are modified, ever so slightly, with exhaust modifcations, should experience the reverse effect of boost increase. Since less boost does not necessarily translate into less power, but more efficiency. It's a relative balance between the two.

Continuing, for your LSJ to hit 24psi with just cams, would require either a severe restriction or a by-pass mod. It just isn't going to happen. However, I do agree with your statement, "To make power, you need to move air" truer words could never have been spoken, as thats the secret to TriFlow... ;)

I'd just like to say, that Geoff (Colt Cams) and us (JBP) have poured a ton of money into TriFlow for the ECOTECs and we're standing behind our work. Customers who put these camshafts into their LSJ are going to SHIT their pants at the difference.

Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like they're going to do exactly what I want. What's the recommended shift points to take full advantage of the power band? Actually, what is the power band. Thanks again, I know I'm being a pain. Don't worry, I'll be going to bed soon,lol.

Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like they're going to do exactly what I want. What's the recommended shift points to take full advantage of the power band? Actually, what is the power band. Thanks again, I know I'm being a pain. Don't worry, I'll be going to bed soon,lol.

Same here, I'm looking forward to bedtime.

When the dyno's are back up... You'll see another TriFlow benefit. No narrow powerband! ;)

Our LSJ Stage 2 TriFlows start gaining from 2000RPM. Absolutely Remarkable. Back in the initial testing days, I installed and drove player_1's stock SS/SC with just cams, and the difference is just revolutionary.

Same here, I'm looking forward to bedtime.

When the dyno's are back up... You'll see another TriFlow benefit. No narrow powerband! ;)

Our LSJ Stage 2 TriFlows start gaining from 2000RPM. Absolutely Remarkable. Back in the initial testing days, I installed and drove player_1's stock SS/SC with just cams, and the difference is just revolutionary.


I can't wait. I just don't want to have to rev to 7800rpms to take advantage of the power. It's alot less stressful on the valvetrain if you can shift at ~7200rpms. Take care.:)

I plan on keeping my stock cams for if I decide to part out at a later date or for some reason have to return the car to stock is there any difference in the product im sold if its ground from stock cams or from blanks?

where are the dyno's?

So i have 10.0 : 1 pistons, a fully ported and polished head and ferrea valve springs with titanium locks (stock valves), 2.6 pulley, SMS throttle big bore body, ported supercharger, full thermal 2 1/2 thermal R&D exhaust, 60lb fuel injectors and HP tuners

can I get these befor christmass and i want to get some blanks and have youyr stage II grindd put on them but it looks like most of these guys want to wait till after Xmass so does that mean i have to wait or what? also where can I get some blanks at for the LSJ i dont want to give up my stock cams.

With the addition of these cams into my modification list (in my sig.), how important or necessary do you think it would be to upgrade my stock internals? I am already making 271 WHP and 260 WTQ (w/out the SnowPerformance Kit) and about 19.5 lbs of boost (which sounds like would decrease a little with these cams?). I'm not sure if I would be ready to have to financially tackle having to replace the internals. Any help and input would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

can I get these befor christmass and i want to get some blanks and have youyr stage II grindd put on them but it looks like most of these guys want to wait till after Xmass so does that mean i have to wait or what? also where can I get some blanks at for the LSJ i dont want to give up my stock cams.

Yes, no problem, you can get them before Christmas. You'd have to pay full price and get refunded the difference after the GB is over depending on the number of customers on the GB at the end.

With the addition of these cams into my modification list (in my sig.), how important or necessary do you think it would be to upgrade my stock internals? I am already making 271 WHP and 260 WTQ (w/out the SnowPerformance Kit) and about 19.5 lbs of boost (which sounds like would decrease a little with these cams?). I'm not sure if I would be ready to have to financially tackle having to replace the internals. Any help and input would greatly be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


With your camshafts modifications it would not be necessary to upgrade your bottom end, however, you might be interested in valvetrain mods. We are coming out with Roller tipped rocker arms shortly, so these items might be a worthwhile investment.

Yes, no problem, you can get them before Christmas. You'd have to pay full price and get refunded the difference after the GB is over depending on the number of customers on the GB at the end.



With your camshafts modifications it would not be necessary to upgrade your bottom end, however, you might be interested in valvetrain mods. We are coming out with Roller tipped rocker arms shortly, so these items might be a worthwhile investment.
I just have another quick question for you. if your starting with stock cams and no blanks that already have a grind on them then how are you getting more lift and duration over the factory cam specs? Are you adding a higher rocker ratio or are you welding the cams up? Whats going on? Are you are reducing duration and overlap? wouldnt that basically be just be a trade off in how the powerband looks? It would probably net you some higher boost numbers to show off. we can have all the boost we want but if theres no flow to go with that boost then were not getting our full power potental are we?

am i confused or does anyone understand what im trying to say.

I just have another quick question for you. if your starting with stock cams and no blanks that already have a grind on them then how are you getting more lift and duration over the factory cam specs? Are you adding a higher rocker ratio or are you welding the cams up? Whats going on? Are you are reducing duration and overlap? wouldnt that basically be just be a trade off in how the powerband looks? It would probably net you some higher boost numbers to show off. we can have all the boost we want but if theres no flow to go with that boost then were not getting our full power potental are we?

am i confused or does anyone understand what im trying to say.

I am really curious about this as well.

So with these cams would we still make peak around 6700-7000? If we have to rev to 7500+ to reach peak power, we will have to go to a larger sc pulley in order to avoid severly over spinning the blower.

So with these cams would we still make peak around 6700-7000? If we have to rev to 7500+ to reach peak power, we will have to go to a larger sc pulley in order to avoid severly over spinning the blower.
if you tune and raise your rev limitator you might want to consider valve springs to accomadate this rev raising in order to cut down the chances of floating a valve

Thanks for the response JBP. So the stock internals should be good then with this performance increase and what already has been done to the car. I'll keep an eye on this thread and the other one with the list and I'll should be good to go after the holidays. How long into the new year do you think this GB will go? Also, how much are the valve springs?

I just have another quick question for you. if your starting with stock cams and no blanks that already have a grind on them then how are you getting more lift and duration over the factory cam specs? Are you adding a higher rocker ratio or are you welding the cams up? Whats going on? Are you are reducing duration and overlap? wouldnt that basically be just be a trade off in how the powerband looks? It would probably net you some higher boost numbers to show off. we can have all the boost we want but if theres no flow to go with that boost then were not getting our full power potental are we?

am i confused or does anyone understand what im trying to say.


I am really curious about this as well.


I believe base circle theory to be one of the most confusing things in relation to camshaft regrinding. Here, I'll dispell all rumor concerning regrinds with something that should be made a public somewhere on the internet. Because it seems as though no one understands it at all. ;)

a) How can you gain more lift from removing material?
b) Why does the lift specifications change?
c) How can you gain more without adding/welding material?

I have a heavy mathematical/engineering background, I prefer to explain things this way. The only real way to prove base circle theory and how a trade off from removing material, adds lift, is to prove so with simple math and by pictorial reference. So I fired up autocad and here's the result:

STOCK CAM
http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/originalcam.bmp

Example: Stock camshaft with some nice round numbers to work with and comprehend. The stock camshaft has a lifter travel of 0.400" lift. (The rectangular piece sitting below the base circle on the LHS is the lifter). The LHS shows the lifter position at the cam heel. The RHS shows the lifter postion on the lobe tip (at full lift). The centerline of the base circle to the outer quadrant is indicated as 0.600". 0.600 + 0.400 = 1.000" (one inch) cam heel to lobe tip. Therefore, lifter travel is 0.400". Good so far?

MODIFIED CAM
http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/modifiedcam.bmp


Enter our modified camshaft: Presto chango, no material added, yet you can see already (pictorially), there's an extra 0.025" of lift. How? I'll explain. From the base circle of 0.600 we removed 0.050 of material. This results in a base circle of 0.550" and thereby giving us a cam heel radius reduction of 0.025" and the opposing quadrant losing the same amount (0.025") 0.025 + 0.025 = 0.050. Continuing, examine the LHS of the modified camshaft. See how the lifter has "up-jumped" the horizon reference of the stock camshaft by... 0.050"? Finally, the camshaft has rotated 180° and the lobe is now at the face of the lifter (full lift) and the lifter travel is now 0.425". (0.025" more than the original camshaft) No magic, no welding. Just plain simple physics.

Thanks for the response JBP. So the stock internals should be good then with this performance increase and what already has been done to the car. I'll keep an eye on this thread and the other one with the list and I'll should be good to go after the holidays. How long into the new year do you think this GB will go? Also, how much are the valve springs?

Valve springs are priced on the website. We'll extend it at least until end of January.

I believe base circle theory to be one of the most confusing things in relation to camshaft regrinding. Here, I'll dispell all rumor concerning regrinds with something that should be made a public somewhere on the internet. Because it seems as though no one understands it at all. ;)

a) How can you gain more lift from removing material?
b) Why does the lift specifications change?
c) How can you gain more without adding/welding material?

I have a heavy mathematical/engineering background, I prefer to explain things this way. The only real way to prove base circle theory and how a trade off from removing material, adds lift, is to prove so with simple math and by pictorial reference. So I fired up autocad and here's the result:

STOCK CAM
http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/originalcam.bmp

Example: Stock camshaft with some nice round numbers to work with and comprehend. The stock camshaft has a lifter travel of 0.400" lift. (The rectangular piece sitting below the base circle on the LHS is the lifter). The LHS shows the lifter position at the cam heel. The RHS shows the lifter postion on the lobe tip (at full lift). The centerline of the base circle to the outer quadrant is indicated as 0.600". 0.600 + 0.400 = 1.000" (one inch) cam heel to lobe tip. Therefore, lifter travel is 0.400". Good so far?

MODIFIED CAM
http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/modifiedcam.bmp


Enter our modified camshaft: Presto chango, no material added, yet you can see already (pictorially), there's an extra 0.025" of lift. How? I'll explain. From the base circle of 0.600 we removed 0.050 of material. This results in a base circle of 0.550" and thereby giving us a cam heel radius reduction of 0.025" and the opposing quadrant losing the same amount (0.025") 0.025 + 0.025 = 0.050. Continuing, examine the LHS of the modified camshaft. See how the lifter has "up-jumped" the horizon reference of the stock camshaft by... 0.050"? Finally, the camshaft has rotated 180° and the lobe is now at the face of the lifter (full lift) and the lifter travel is now 0.425". (0.025" more than the original camshaft) No magic, no welding. Just plain simple physics.
simple physics my ass dude, any way u can dub that down? your taking metal off the stock cams and somehow the cams duration and lift profiles are better?

The idea works, if and only if you compensate for it at with increased installed valve height. How are you doing that with this setup?

PS- For those of you who'd like to see this type of setup in Production use, the 2001 LS6 has a larger base circle and shorter valves than while the 2002 LS6 has a smaller base circle and larger valves, should be on those v8 sites somewhere.

The idea works, if and only if you compensate for it at with increased installed valve height. How are you doing that with this setup?

PS- For those of you who'd like to see this type of setup in Production use, the 2001 LS6 has a larger base circle and shorter valves than while the 2002 LS6 has a smaller base circle and larger valves, should be on those v8 sites somewhere.
ENGLISH dammit

ENGLISH dammit

You can do what they suggest if you make other alterations at the same time. The cam either would need to sit closer to the valves to make up the .25 difference, or the valve would somehow have to made longer to take up the lash, or the rocker adjusted to, etc. Can be useful, just don't know how they would accomodate for it. If no lash adjustments were made, the profile would not open the valve when it should and would close the valve premature, and lift at the valve would be either the same as it started out or lessened.

You can do what they suggest if you make other alterations at the same time. The cam either would need to sit closer to the valves to make up the .25 difference, or the valve would somehow have to made longer to take up the lash, or the rocker adjusted to, etc. Can be useful, just don't know how they would accomodate for it. If no lash adjustments were made, the profile would not open the valve when it should and would close the valve premature, and lift at the valve would be either the same as it started out or lessened.
i see, oh damn. so this is a bit more involving then just getting the GMPP cams.

You can do what they suggest if you make other alterations at the same time. The cam either would need to sit closer to the valves to make up the .25 difference, or the valve would somehow have to made longer to take up the lash, or the rocker adjusted to, etc. Can be useful, just don't know how they would accomodate for it. If no lash adjustments were made, the profile would not open the valve when it should and would close the valve premature, and lift at the valve would be either the same as it started out or lessened.

First, You're dead wrong. You're complicating things beyond what need be. Also, you don't have a clue about a hydraulic valvetrain operates as lash does not need to be adjusted for take-up with the LSJ hydraulic lifter. The lobe heel is modified and not the entire base circle in a real-world scenario. The LSJ lifter is plenty accomodating for up to 0.090-0.100" base circle modification. First, to take up a 1/4" as you've indicated above is definatley coming from some magic hydraulic valvetrain. That distance of plunging action is impossible by any lifter in existance. ;)

The number of cams that we've sold with regrinding done on them: LD9 (33 pairs), LN2 (48 singles), L61 (21 pairs), LSJ (6 pairs), LE5 (1 pair) 3.1L V6 (21 singles), 3400 V6 (8 singles) and not one return do to lash adjustment shows that hydraulic lifter can accomodate our specificaitons. Reguardless we still offer a 5-year warranty return on any manufacturing defect from our cams.

Secondly, for customers who are still hesitant about regrinding their stock cores. We offer the option of blank billets to keep the stock base circle dimensions and retain the TriFlow specifications as before. There's no need, but some customers are adamant about blanks for some reason.

Colt Cams and JBP have been doing this long enough to know whats right and whats wrong. We work hand in hand to bring cams that have results, proper fitment and testing.

The idea works, if and only if you compensate for it at with increased installed valve height. How are you doing that with this setup?

PS- For those of you who'd like to see this type of setup in Production use, the 2001 LS6 has a larger base circle and shorter valves than while the 2002 LS6 has a smaller base circle and larger valves, should be on those v8 sites somewhere.


Exactly! I can see how altering the heel could increase lift as the height differance is all the matters in lift, but that assumes that the lifter CAN travel higher which would mean closing the valve.... farhter.. which is abviously not possible. So such a set up will not see such lift inless the lifters are modified to accomidate.

Exactly! I can see how altering the heel could increase lift as the height differance is all the matters in lift, but that assumes that the lifter CAN travel higher which would mean closing the valve.... farhter.. which is abviously not possible. So such a set up will not see such lift inless the lifters are modified to accomidate.
thats exactly what i was understanding, shab's comparison put it all into perspective.

You can do what they suggest if you make other alterations at the same time. The cam either would need to sit closer to the valves to make up the .25 difference, or the valve would somehow have to made longer to take up the lash, or the rocker adjusted to, etc. Can be useful, just don't know how they would accomodate for it. If no lash adjustments were made, the profile would not open the valve when it should and would close the valve premature, and lift at the valve would be either the same as it started out or lessened.

Exactly! I can see how altering the heel could increase lift as the height differance is all the matters in lift, but that assumes that the lifter CAN travel higher which would mean closing the valve.... farhter.. which is abviously not possible. So such a set up will not see such lift inless the lifters are modified to accomidate.

thats exactly what i was understanding, shab's comparison put it all into perspective.

JBP you get all kinds of budding engineers on here who know more......

I am sure there is alot of us here who are just keeping quiet. There is nothing you can say that will change some peoples mind or ability to be educated. There will only be one way to help.... that is some will need their A$$ handed to them when they get smoked by someone with your reground cams. then in conversation they will then realize its produces more HP and they will want even if they dont understand it.

JBP I sorry you received some bashing about your idea here on this site (which as members we are not supposed to do). To me your explanations are understandable, make sense, and I know will work.

You will recieve a call from me to get the cams ground. thanks for being there to support this platform (ECOtec). I am sure you have fun! Later.

JBP you get all kinds of budding engineers on here who know more......

I could kiss you for that comment.


JBP I sorry you received some bashing about your idea here on this site (which as members we are not supposed to do). To me your explanations are understandable, make sense, and I know will work.

Nope, its not bashing. Its concern about a product with a lack of background and experience. I can understand the concern as reduced base circle is somewhat confusion concept. But believe me when I say Colt and JBP know what we're doing. We've been doing it for a long time, and there's nothing but positive results to back it up: Our LD9 camshafts, boast a 26WHP gain in a N/A config. Thats the biggest gain we've ever got out of a pair of 4 banger cams, and yes they are REGRINDS.

You will recieve a call from me to get the cams ground. thanks for being there to support this platform (ECOtec). I am sure you have fun! Later.


Your business is much appreciated.

First, You're dead wrong. You're complicating things beyond what need be. First, to take up a 1/4" as you've indicated above is definatley coming from some magic hydraulic valvetrain.

I missed typed. The number above was supposed to be .025, of course. I'm used to think of thousandth's of inches, and was on the way to bed when I posted. Yes, a hydraulic lifter can make up for that type of lash if it has to, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Considering you could have even more lift with a new blank ground with the smaller base circle, that would be the way to go for most people, and if they are going to be changing valvetrain components at that time anyway, it would make sense to compensate for the .025" I originally talked about. Making a lifter work harder than it needs to is a good way to mess with a valvetrain's high rpm stability.

I missed typed. The number above was supposed to be .025, of course. I'm used to think of thousandth's of inches

0.025 fractional value is in the thousandths of an inch.

and was on the way to bed when I posted.

I'll let it slide this time! :cool:

Yes, a hydraulic lifter can make up for that type of lash if it has to, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Can you explain why?

Considering you could have even more lift with a new blank ground with the smaller base circle, that would be the way to go for most people

Correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly. Take a billet cam, that comes with more material than stock on the lobe side and base circle side. Take base circle, grind down smaller than stock base circle. Keep lobe side as stock. Isn't that a regrind? ;)

Making a lifter work harder than it needs to is a good way to mess with a valvetrain's high rpm stability.


Basically, A lifter actuated by a regrind with 'x' amount lift compared to a billet cam with the same lift will work exactly the same. It only goes up and down in the bore, nothing else.

I don't really know too much about cams, but have been told that for high boost applications they are not necessarily the best idea. Is this true? and if so how much boost would you recommend on this set?

Also, I know cams can give a wicked exhaust note, would you happen to have a sound clip :)

Can you explain why?

Well, more travel for the lash adjuster means more where on its seal, much like the rings of a piston where do to travel distance and speed.

Correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly. Take a billet cam, that comes with more material than stock on the lobe side and base circle side. Take base circle, grind down smaller than stock base circle. Keep lobe side as stock. Isn't that a regrind? ;)

I've never heard anyone refer to grinding a cam blank as a "re-grind" as the blank has not be ground before, lol. I am not suggesting leaving the lobe side as stock. The biggest issue with regrinding a cam, is unless you weld some more material on there, you can't alter duration as much as you'd like to. A cam blank gives you the ability to do this, and alter lift. In the example I am illustrating, we'll assume that the total radius of the cam is 25 thousandths more than the stock cam grind is at maximum lift. That's more lift there on it's own with the original base circle. No do as you suggest and reduce the base circle by 25 thousandths, and the total lift at the cam has been increased 75 thousandths instead of just 50.




Basically, A lifter actuated by a regrind with 'x' amount lift compared to a billet cam with the same lift will work exactly the same. It only goes up and down in the bore, nothing else.

The longer the distance it has to move, the quicker it will wear as stated above. When attempting to increase lift, a higher ratio rocker is almost always the best bet for valvetrain stability. You mentioned you will have a rocker available shortly. That looks like a good compliment to any valvetrain and cam upgrade.

JBP you get all kinds of budding engineers on here who know more......

I am sure there is alot of us here who are just keeping quiet. There is nothing you can say that will change some peoples mind or ability to be educated. There will only be one way to help.... that is some will need their A$$ handed to them when they get smoked by someone with your reground cams. then in conversation they will then realize its produces more HP and they will want even if they dont understand it.

JBP I sorry you received some bashing about your idea here on this site (which as members we are not supposed to do). To me your explanations are understandable, make sense, and I know will work.

You will recieve a call from me to get the cams ground. thanks for being there to support this platform (ECOtec). I am sure you have fun! Later.

WTF? How am I wrong for not wanting a product unless I understand it??

As an engineer, I am not just going to buy a part because someone tells me it works, I have to know why and how. THe explainations givven are confusing quite a few people, so I just want a little more info before I make an opinion on if I think these are a worth while upgrade.

This is NOT bashing, this is wanting to be informed. So go crawl back to you hole and stop being an ass. And while your at it, buy one of those cyclose intake inserts becaus thye state more power and efficency!!

WTF? How am I wrong for not wanting a product unless I understand it??

As an engineer, I am not just going to buy a part because someone tells me it works, I have to know why and how. THe explainations givven are confusing quite a few people, so I just want a little more info before I make an opinion on if I think these are a worth while upgrade.

This is NOT bashing, this is wanting to be informed. So go crawl back to you hole and stop being an ass. And while your at it, buy one of those cyclose intake inserts becaus thye state more power and efficency!!
same hear man. im trying to understand this as well, lurking ftw i guess?

WTF? How am I wrong for not wanting a product unless I understand it??

As an engineer, I am not just going to buy a part because someone tells me it works, I have to know why and how. THe explainations givven are confusing quite a few people, so I just want a little more info before I make an opinion on if I think these are a worth while upgrade.

This is NOT bashing, this is wanting to be informed. So go crawl back to you hole and stop being an ass. And while your at it, buy one of those cyclose intake inserts becaus thye state more power and efficency!!

I am not being an ass.... My statements were based on what you said.

You can do what they suggest if you make other alterations at the same time. The cam either would need to sit closer to the valves to make up the .25 difference, or the valve would somehow have to made longer to take up the lash, or the rocker adjusted to, etc. Can be useful, just don't know how they would accomodate for it. If no lash adjustments were made, the profile would not open the valve when it should and would close the valve premature, and lift at the valve would be either the same as it started out or lessened.

I did not see questions, I saw statements. You were telling him how it does not work and it looked to me you were bashing a good idea that does works.... sorry but I understand it and know it does work. and it is simple physics. but you need to know how the components work to understand it. If you actually did ask questions for an understanding then I would have not made any comment. Whether you meant it that way or not that is how it sounded.

As for being an ASS I was actually providing shock value so you would think before you speak. that is all. but lets not get into an argument over it. lets just learn about how this works so you will get a set of ground cams and smoke who ever.

I will let you in on other things I have learned in my exhaust research. If you plan to go without turbo I have found out a good combination.

later fellow cobalt driver.

I did not see questions, I saw statements. You were telling him how it does not work and it looked to me you were bashing a good idea that does works.... sorry but I understand it and know it does work. and it is simple physics. but you need to know how the components work to understand it. If you actually did ask questions for an understanding then I would have not made any comment. Whether you meant it that way or not that is how it sounded.

I have no need to defend my statements and am not looking to shock people by them. That was not the first post questioning how things were being done here, so I also feel no need to restate those already asked. Hydraulics are not perfect, magic solutions. A lifter takes time to pump up properly and can have issues not bleeding of correctly. Under severe conditions it will loose its seal and not hold fluid at all, or even stick in position. It's there to help, but asking it to do 5x the job it was intended may go either way, depending on your luck. If it was such a great idea, there would be an OEM using it with no other mods on a stock engine. There isn't one doing so. See my example of the different versions of the LS6 above. I'm not suggesting it doesn't work whatsoever. That is obviously not the case.

Alright, everyone got what they wanted off their chest. You can only sway ppl so far, but if they are rooted in their beliefs, your attempts are fruitless nonetheless.


Continuing, Any other technical questions? (not related to how regrinds work)

Continuing, Any other technical questions? (not related to how regrinds work)

How much does the reduced overlap affect idle and fuel economy?

How much does the reduced overlap affect idle and fuel economy?

Great question!:twothumbs

I want to make as much HP with Stock S/C. I am planning other internal changes. If I do an engine build (pistons, rods, cam timing sprokets, valve springs, THE CAM REGRIND OF TOPIC HERE), and outside supporting modifications (Exhaust, intake, 60lbs injectors and HP Tuners). will this get me to 400 to 500HP? If not will a different cam regrind help?

Basically I am targeting the 400 to 500HP. I dont believe in spending money twice. will the cam regrind be enough to be useful to reach these power levels?

How much does the reduced overlap affect idle and fuel economy?

Great question!

Idle quality is fine. Noticeablely different, with a lower pitch combines with a small, yet distinct lope.

Fuel economy is hard to measure as our customers who have them are very hard on their cars. Which makes it near impossible to find a decent number to deal with.

I want to make as much HP with Stock S/C. I am planning other internal changes. If I do an engine build (pistons, rods, cam timing sprokets, valve springs, THE CAM REGRIND OF TOPIC HERE), and outside supporting modifications (Exhaust, intake, 60lbs injectors and HP Tuners). will this get me to 400 to 500HP? If not will a different cam regrind help?

Basically I am targeting the 400 to 500HP. I dont believe in spending money twice. will the cam regrind be enough to be useful to reach these power levels?

No, you require a custom camshaft to harness this instant. We're considering wild grinds were the customer will require to change just the intake cam gear from stock to adj. This would allow us to come up with wilder grinds in both regrind and billet form.

No, you require a custom camshaft to harness this instant. We're considering wild grinds were the customer will require to change just the intake cam gear from stock to adj. This would allow us to come up with wilder grinds in both regrind and billet form.

so you mean for that much horsepower he would need a custom camshaft???

because i was going for this much also and i would like to know everything i need for internals

and a core is your stock part that you send back correct???

but what is a blank?

You have to take several things into consideration. (ie: how is the power going to be made, via how much boost, turbo, supercharger, etc..) Also, you will lose a significant amount of bottom end torque with a custom radical grind, as we would project the powerband up quite a bit to gain more power. This is all done through the camshaft and cylinder head. We've done several LD9s that hit up in around the 500HP mark. For these, the heads were opened up and flowed, as well as the camshaft profile made to match the head. It's mostly paperwork. You also have to realize that custom camshafts would require manditory tuning. But these "off-the shelf" triflows should be more than adequate for those who want to have driveability and be able to make power.

Blanks are "blank" camshafts that do not have a profile (yet) ground into them.

You have to take several things into consideration. (ie: how is the power going to be made, via how much boost, turbo, supercharger, etc..) Also, you will lose a significant amount of bottom end torque with a custom radical grind, as we would project the powerband up quite a bit to gain more power. This is all done through the camshaft and cylinder head. We've done several LD9s that hit up in around the 500HP mark. For these, the heads were opened up and flowed, as well as the camshaft profile made to match the head. It's mostly paperwork. You also have to realize that custom camshafts would require manditory tuning. But these "off-the shelf" triflows should be more than adequate for those who want to have driveability and be able to make power.

Blanks are "blank" camshafts that do not have a profile (yet) ground into them.

Okay so How close will I come to 400HP with m62 SC with a 2.6 pulley, cam grind, 10.5:1 pistons, 60lbs injectors, HP tuned, 3" exhaust and manifold, intake. would a lighter flywheel and rods benefit.

Okay so How close will I come to 400HP with m62 SC with a 2.6 pulley, cam grind, 10.5:1 pistons, 60lbs injectors, HP tuned, 3" exhaust and manifold, intake. would a lighter flywheel and rods benefit.


400CHP or 400WHP? big difference.... Basically, if we're talking at the crank. You're doubling the output of the engine with three power mods, (compression, cams and pulley), natural mods, (intake, 3" exhaust, "manifold"), and free-up mod, (Flywheel) and lastly, safety mod & slight free up, (Connecting rods and tuning.)

I'd wager, and I'll never, (ever) post a definate HP gain, that you should be a tad over 310-350CHP. Again, only way to be sure... install it all and head to the dyno. ;)

You have to take several things into consideration. (ie: how is the power going to be made, via how much boost, turbo, supercharger, etc..) Also, you will lose a significant amount of bottom end torque with a custom radical grind, as we would project the powerband up quite a bit to gain more power. This is all done through the camshaft and cylinder head. We've done several LD9s that hit up in around the 500HP mark. For these, the heads were opened up and flowed, as well as the camshaft profile made to match the head. It's mostly paperwork. You also have to realize that custom camshafts would require manditory tuning. But these "off-the shelf" triflows should be more than adequate for those who want to have driveability and be able to make power.

Blanks are "blank" camshafts that do not have a profile (yet) ground into them.

so to make the 400-500 horsepower we would need the custom cams???

so the customs would produce more horsepower than the tri-flow???

and wouldnt u need to tune with the tri-flow cams anyways???

so to make the 400-500 horsepower we would need the custom cams???

so the customs would produce more horsepower than the tri-flow???

and wouldnt u need to tune with the tri-flow cams anyways???

Yes, to make 500HP with a custom Triflow, youre at the point where you need a very aggressive profile to squeeze more than what the Stage 2 Triflow can deliver.

With the Stage 2 Triflows, you don't need to tune, but it's a good thing anyway.

How much HP are these cams good up to? With these cams and a set of valve springs would it be safe to rev to 7500rpm or around there? So it make more power across the whole powerband? Do you have that older dyno sheet of the cams before and after on the stock 2.0l that you could post or email me?

the answer to your HP question is one post above yours. :) Yes, with these cams and valve springs, you'll be safe at 7500RPM. Yes, power gains are across the powerband, the dyno sheet i'll dig up and post publically.

what about cam gears? how necessary are they?

what about cam gears? how necessary are they?

Not necessary. Springs are recommended though.

Now I think you addressed this, but could you rehash?

If we have the GM Stage 2 will there be issues with the stock valvetrain revving up to 7000RPM with these cams? Basically, would it be necessary to upgrade at that point, or just advised?

Why do I ask? Eventually I want to build a bare block up with all the goodies that are out for the LSJ to be bulletproof. That is when I would plan on using a ported head with upgraded valvetrain components. Until I can build that engine; though, which is years down the road from being complete, cams seem to be a nice touch to a daily driven LSJ.

My setup would be GMS2, CAI, Full-Exhaust + Cams daily driven. Yeah or Nah?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I plan to Dyno-tune this setup when complete.

Now I think you addressed this, but could you rehash?

If we have the GM Stage 2 will there be issues with the stock valvetrain revving up to 7000RPM with these cams? Basically, would it be necessary to upgrade at that point, or just advised?

Why do I ask? Eventually I want to build a bare block up with all the goodies that are out for the LSJ to be bulletproof. That is when I would plan on using a ported head with upgraded valvetrain components. Until I can build that engine; though, which is years down the road from being complete, cams seem to be a nice touch to a daily driven LSJ.

My setup would be GMS2, CAI, Full-Exhaust + Cams daily driven. Yeah or Nah?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I plan to Dyno-tune this setup when complete.

You're right on the line of decision. :) You can, at this time, get away with the camshafts at the redline you've indicated. But I strongly recommend at least a valve spring swap. We sell LSJ valve springs that can take the stock retainers/locks.

Okay so How close will I come to 400HP with m62 SC with a 2.6 pulley, cam grind, 10.5:1 pistons, 60lbs injectors, HP tuned, 3" exhaust and manifold, intake. would a lighter flywheel and rods benefit.

Those numbers have been attained with almost those exact mods. I'm talkin' whp. The LSJ I have in mind had a ported head and Ti valvetrain as well (revving up to 8300rpm I think) The car is out of commission at the moment, but is being rebuilt even more this time.

Now I think you addressed this, but could you rehash?

If we have the GM Stage 2 will there be issues with the stock valvetrain revving up to 7000RPM with these cams? Basically, would it be necessary to upgrade at that point, or just advised?

Why do I ask? Eventually I want to build a bare block up with all the goodies that are out for the LSJ to be bulletproof. That is when I would plan on using a ported head with upgraded valvetrain components. Until I can build that engine; though, which is years down the road from being complete, cams seem to be a nice touch to a daily driven LSJ.

My setup would be GMS2, CAI, Full-Exhaust + Cams daily driven. Yeah or Nah?

You're right on the line of decision. :) You can, at this time, get away with the camshafts at the redline you've indicated. But I strongly recommend at least a valve spring swap. We sell LSJ valve springs that can take the stock retainers/locks.

So if revving to 7k on this setup is borderline, then can I assume it would be safe to simply have the cams, w/o tuning, hit the street, and have them produce gains if I plan on not going higher than the as shown 6500 rpm redline?

That's the word on the street...

So if revving to 7k on this setup is borderline, then can I assume it would be safe to simply have the cams, w/o tuning, hit the street, and have them produce gains if I plan on not going higher than the as shown 6500 rpm redline?

Thats correct. You can install the camshafts without any further modifcations to the valvetrain, pending you keep the 6500RPM (stock) redline.

How dangerous do you really think it is to run the stock springs on these cams at 7k? Cause if it's that bad then we need to talk...

How dangerous do you really think it is to run the stock springs on these cams at 7k? Cause if it's that bad then we need to talk...

On our spring dyno, @7K with the stock cams and springs isn't a problem. When you introduce our camshaft profile, you're still not quite in valve floating territory, however, you are introducing a resonance that could literally break the spring-wire. Why risk it? Just upgrade your valve springs if you're higher than stock redline w/cams.

Okay, then when this GB starts to come to fruition, I'm going to need to talk to you about Springs, possibly locks, retainers, seats, etc...

The cams still giving the out of sync CEL?

Also what do you recommend to go with the CAMS? If I spend some money I would like to be able to increase my redline.

No, that CELs long-gone.

Like I mentioned, the JBP springs are more than enough for people who are staying under 7800RPM. The nice thing about these springs is that you don't have to spend a fortune on locks, retainers. They are interchangable and fine for this RPM level.

Pardon the stupid question...

How will these cams effect exhaust flow? Seeing as I plan on having a custom exhaust made, should these cams effect my decision as to what size exhaust I use?

My goal is to have a 2.79" pulley dyno tuned with 60 lbs'ers, these cams, my custom 3" CAI and custom full exhaust. Should be enough with the right suspension mods to get me into 12's...

so what is the max hp that these cams can take????

Pardon the stupid question...

How will these cams effect exhaust flow? Seeing as I plan on having a custom exhaust made, should these cams effect my decision as to what size exhaust I use?

My goal is to have a 2.79" pulley dyno tuned with 60 lbs'ers, these cams, my custom 3" CAI and custom full exhaust. Should be enough with the right suspension mods to get me into 12's...

There will be an increase in boost. You will peg the stock boost ctrl solenoid with these cams, so there will be an increase in overall flow through the engine. 3.0" inch would be ideal as well as to support future mods.

so what is the max hp that these cams can take????

There is no MAX HP rating for these cams. They can take any horse power range. However, when you want to make a large gain, a custom grind is recommended.

so anything past the 400hp range would need a custom grind?

There will be an increase in boost. You will peg the stock boost ctrl solenoid with these cams, so there will be an increase in overall flow through the engine. 3.0" inch would be ideal as well as to support future mods

As of now I am running the 2.79" pulley with the Injen CAI, your JBP heat shield, and one-step colder plugs..I know my injectors duty cycle is pushin hard, which is why I have been babyin her..

On to my questions..With buying your cam, retainer springs, pickin up some 60's an a tune, is there anything else that I will need for my car to be a reliable daily driver?? I am not going to be raising the limiter above maybe 7200rpm's at a max..I plan on doing exhaust also, but figured this deal is too good to pass up so it will have to wait, is there an exhaust size that you would recommend also?? I planned on going with 2.5" but if 3" would complement this setup better, then I could go that route. Thanks for the GB as well as the Tech info.

Oh yes, I also have an 07..Will that make a difference??

You shouldn't need anything else other than what you have and have planned. The exhaust would definalty be a nice compliment, I'm not sure on which size would be best, maybe someone else here can chime in. And you year model should have no effect. :twothumbs

In the same post you quoted, JBP replied to my question about exhaust with almost the same setup. You will want a 3" exhaust with this setup. Also, with the 2.79" pulley I would recommend getting 60lbs injectors before you get tuned. It will be a more reliable daily driver with those mods seeing as you would definately give the stage 2 injectors a workout with these cams and that pulley. Just scroll up on this page and you'll see what my plans are. Sounds like you and I have the same idea... Good luck!

Oh yeah, I plan on gettin the 60's..Gonna have to put em on hold for now though cause I REALLY want to get in on this GB

Heres another question, actually two..By going with this setup, will I need to pick up the Cometic Head gasket?? Would I need to get some ARP head studs?? I want to make sure that I pick up EVERYTHING that I will need for this.

Those shouldn't be necessary because they wouldn't be removed in this installation. Those should be mandatory pick ups if you get the Diamond Pistons though...

so whats the deal with those graphs

Also has anyone seen the Came gear holding tool? (http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/PartDetails.php?partId=992&catId=992&catName=JP0992)

Does anyone know how well something like this will work?

So bump for wondering where that dyno graph is

Hmmm... Looks like I should get the Valve Springs. Any idea how these will effect Injector Duty Cycle? I know I am already cutting it close with the 2.79" pulley. I'm guessing I will probably need to switch back to the Stage 2 pulley. I can't afford to screw anything up.

I plan on getting the valve springs, not sure about the answer to the injector duty cycle question though. I am running the 2.79 on 42' and I know I'm pushing it, but also plan on getting the 60's..Precautionary reasons as well as for future leaway..

so whats the deal with those graphs

Also has anyone seen the Came gear holding tool? (http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/PartDetails.php?partId=992&catId=992&catName=JP0992)

Does anyone know how well something like this will work?

The cam gear holding toll works well. I have the GM one and JBP looks just like the GM one. Makes cam changes extremely easy. The tool bolts to the gears and then you can basically unbolt the cams and pull them out and slide the new ones in. Theres a little more to it than that but thats the short of it. I would recommend to most if not all changing cams to rent that tool from them. It will save lots of headaches.

The cam gear holding toll works well. I have the GM one and JBP looks just like the GM one. Makes cam changes extremely easy. The tool bolts to the gears and then you can basically unbolt the cams and pull them out and slide the new ones in. Theres a little more to it than that but thats the short of it. I would recommend to most if not all changing cams to rent that tool from them. It will save lots of headaches.

Looks like I might be getting that as well then.

JBP, can I get you guys to give me an answer to this previous question.

Any idea how these cams will affect Injector Duty Cycle? I know I am already cutting it close with the 2.79" pulley. I'm guessing I will probably need to switch back to the Stage 2 pulley. I can't afford to screw anything up.

wow this is quite the group buy you guys got goin,congrats on the cheaper price.granted I've had my share of issues concerning my cams and the 2.4 cam thread,you 2.0 guys have taken the intiative to get your group buy going...the 2.4 guys just sittin unorganised whining and complaining

wow this is quite the group buy you guys got goin,congrats on the cheaper price.granted I've had my share of issues concerning my cams and the 2.4 cam thread,you 2.0 guys have taken the intiative to get your group buy going...the 2.4 guys just sittin unorganised whining and complaining

Yea were trying :lol:. It wasn't too hard to get people to join, mainly there were just a lot of questions to be answered about pricing, which option was best, # of people, performance gain estimates, and what other supporting mods were needed.

Yea were trying :lol:. It wasn't too hard to get people to join, mainly there were just a lot of questions to be answered about pricing, which option was best, # of people, performance gain estimates, and what other supporting mods were needed.

Sweet is there a dynograph? or a buttdyno about the gains from any members who already has the 2.0 cams????????????

None of us have gotten the cams yet, but I think that either myself or Edubs will be the first to dyno with them (I will know on Feb. 10th!). In a previous e-mail that I sent to JBP last summer, they had stated estimates of 15whp untuned and 25whp tuned I believe. But don't hold me to that, the only way that we will know is from an actual dyno. I can't wait! I'll be sure to post up the results from it. How are you making out with getting your car on the dyno? I think if I remember correctly, you haven't been able to get tuned or something?

STILL LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER! How will these Cams affect IDC's???

I have to schedule my appt with my dealer to get the cams installed still. I should be getting them installed around the same time as you. I won't have them tuned for some time though. I want to have my custom full exhaust from the engine back built and get 60lbs'ers so I can instal my 2.79" before I have it tuned. It's going to be a gas hog until I get them tuned, but I can live with that for the price that we'll be paying. I can't wait to get them either!

None of us have gotten the cams yet, but I think that either myself or Edubs will be the first to dyno with them (I will know on Feb. 10th!). In a previous e-mail that I sent to JBP last summer, they had stated estimates of 15whp untuned and 25whp tuned I believe. But don't hold me to that, the only way that we will know is from an actual dyno. I can't wait! I'll be sure to post up the results from it. How are you making out with getting your car on the dyno? I think if I remember correctly, you haven't been able to get tuned or something?

I,m going to Victoryredss place again,he thinks the norton antivirus stopped the windows from popping up and movin furter along in its application.once were in im definetly getting this done ASAP

STILL LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER! How will these Cams affect IDC's???

I would assume that the IDC's are going to go up. But no one will be able to verify that until they can log with HPT. These cams will make the car run more rich so I'm going to assume that the injectors are going to be working harder earlier. Definately worth investing in 60lbs injectors if you're running smaller than a 2.9" pulley on GM Stage 2 injectors.

I would assume that the IDC's are going to go up. But no one will be able to verify that until they can log with HPT. These cams will make the car run more rich so I'm going to assume that the injectors are going to be working harder earlier. Definately worth investing in 60lbs injectors if you're running smaller than a 2.9" pulley on GM Stage 2 injectors.

they definetly make them run more rich, at least that was shown on my 2.4

STILL LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER! How will these Cams affect IDC's???

That I'm not sure about, sorry man. JBP can we get an answer for this? Or does anyone else know?

I have to schedule my appt with my dealer to get the cams installed still. I should be getting them installed around the same time as you. I won't have them tuned for some time though. I want to have my custom full exhaust from the engine back built and get 60lbs'ers so I can instal my 2.79" before I have it tuned. It's going to be a gas hog until I get them tuned, but I can live with that for the price that we'll be paying. I can't wait to get them either!

:lol: Thats very true, its well worth it. Thats going to be a nice set-up that you'll be running. You'll be seeing a nice large gain in performance at one time with getting all that work done. I'm getting the cams, Cobra H/E, and the water/meth kit all done at the same time, so I'm extra excited :lol:. Hopefully I can get before and after dyno numbers for just the cams, I think I should be able to.

I,m going to Victoryredss place again,he thinks the norton antivirus stopped the windows from popping up and movin furter along in its application.once were in im definetly getting this done ASAP

Oh I see, that sucks man. But atleast you have an idea of what the problem may be. I'm still keeping an eye out for your results ;).

they definetly make them run more rich, at least that was shown on my 2.4

Mike,

From the point of installation on, how did your car handle the cams w/o a tune. Are you just tuning it because you want to gain the most power from the cams, or because you need to tune them for it to run well?

I know we're running complete different applications, but the only thing that makes me nervous is running these cams for quite some time without tuning them. I'd assume from what JBP has said, that I will still see good gains with the cams untuned. I just won't get the full potential gain until I tune and get the AFR right throughout the band.

Mike,

From the point of installation on, how did your car handle the cams w/o a tune. Are you just tuning it because you want to gain the most power from the cams, or because you need to tune them for it to run well?

I know we're running complete different applications, but the only thing that makes me nervous is running these cams for quite some time without tuning them. I'd assume from what JBP has said, that I will still see good gains with the cams untuned. I just won't get the full potential gain until I tune and get the AFR right throughout the band.

I dont know for your application,I have vvti,so my car runs fine without the tune,for me getting it tuned is only going to give me better gains

Thanks alot! I really appreciate it. My cams got shipped today so, if I'm lucky, I might be able to get into the dealer on Thursday/Friday to have them installed! We'll see how mine are w/o the tune...

either wait for a set of stocker to come in and try to tune with the staockers. if I make more power, then mev goes back to the drawing bored, and fixes it or refund the money.

right now it's not hurting the car by driving with them, so I'm OK.

the other thing is, if someone else gets dyno'd and is having the same issues, then I'm sure he'll look into finding out what is wrong

It sounds like you are still testing unproven cams... how can there be a GB already.

It sounds like you are still testing unproven cams... how can there be a GB already.
usmcfieldmp someone else and my self are the next three in line to recieve these cams but im the only one who has sent thier cores in so I will probably be moved up on the list to get these cams. i talked geff at colt cams today they actually designed these cams for the 2.2 guys first tri flow is truly some kick ass technology geff will talk your ear off about them if you call.

I shipped my cores back international express or something like that yesterday, which has tracking and delivery confirmation. They should be to colt, at the latest, by Wednesday. I'm getting pretty excited, and worried at the same time, about DTM and myself getting these things tuned Friday and Saturday respectively. I'm curious to see how much power I can put down still having the stock exhaust on the car...

Yeah, USMC and I are the next two in line to get the cams. I'm gonna try to get a baseline run with my Stg2 w/2.79 pulley and CAI so we can see what kind of gains there will be with just adding the cams, 60's and a tune. I think USMC will be gettin EDUBS and I should be gettin DTM's if they ever get the installation tool. lol

I'll also have before and after results, but my after results will include the cams, water/meth, and a H/E. So it won't be just of the cams unfortunatly. And yes, still waiting for the tool, it better show today from DHL.

so what are your results guy's?

results and some vids guys BTW my cams are being ground this week the cores according to UPS tracking will be there tomorrow morning.


COME ONE SOME ONE POST MORE VIDS THE FIRST ONES WERE GOOD BUT I NEED MORE!!!!!! :D

I should have my car tomorrow night. And believe me, I'll post the results asap. What kind of videos do you guys want? Drive-by? Idle? Let me know.

If the dealer ever fixes their shitty install, I will post up more videos. Pending they're not completely retarded, the dealer should have my car back up and running by the end of the week but I won't be able to get out to Tune Time Performance until probably the weekend of March 31. DTM (Dan) should have some results this week!

Colt recived my cams on the 12th of feb. Im still wating for mine back. I sent them blanks to get ground.

Im getting really pissed. It cant take more than a few hours i assume to grind them?
Nothing ever goes smoothly with this car I swear.

Kyle

If the dealer ever fixes their shitty install, I will post up more videos. Pending they're not completely retarded, the dealer should have my car back up and running by the end of the week but I won't be able to get out to Tune Time Performance until probably the weekend of March 31. DTM (Dan) should have some results this week!

I must have missed it what happened man????

I should have my car tomorrow night. And believe me, I'll post the results asap. What kind of videos do you guys want? Drive-by? Idle? Let me know.



how about some good quallity idle clips and some fly bye's and a couple of little races but dont get crazy i dont permote street racng at all. but it would be nice to see what they can do. what are your mods?

Eh, stopped to get gas a week and a half after install and the car wouldn't start back up. JBP and TTP both think that the cam position sensor wasn't calibrated correctly or, even worse, the timing is off. We'll see what happens this week. The dealer is trying to come up with every excuse under the sun why it isn't their fault...

how about some good quallity idle clips and some fly bye's and a couple of little races but dont get crazy i dont permote street racng at all. but it would be nice to see what they can do. what are your mods?[/QUOTE]

:lol: I'll try to get those clips and any others that I can think of. My mods are: 2.6", 60lb injectors, intake, header/dp/catback, water/meth, H/E, engine/tranny mounts, custome tune, and cams. Thats all the performance stuff I think.

Don't forget your valve springs...

Eh, stopped to get gas a week and a half after install and the car wouldn't start back up. JBP and TTP both think that the cam position sensor wasn't calibrated correctly or, even worse, the timing is off. We'll see what happens this week. The dealer is trying to come up with every excuse under the sun why it isn't their fault...

calibrated correctly How do they calibrate it or when you say calibrate are you referring to clocking the sensor?

Basically, making sure the #4 sensor is at TDC before clocking the sensor...

Basically, making sure the #4 sensor is at TDC before clocking the sensor...

thats what i though you meant me personally when i saw the term you posted as "calibration" i immediatly though they had to do something that i didnt already know about. lol. its real easy to not clock the sensor properly. but i think if its just off by a little that would cause a no start from the get go. im not 100% sure thogh.

Don't forget your valve springs...

Haha, yes, very true.

My cams should be in this week. Gotta wait till after the 12th though to get em installed. Waitin for the shop to get GM's cam install tool. Already have my baseline, so..should have a good idea of the cams gains since all I'm installin are the cams, valve springs, 60lb injectors and a tune

thats what i though you meant me personally when i saw the term you posted as "calibration" i immediatly though they had to do something that i didnt already know about. lol. its real easy to not clock the sensor properly. but i think if its just off by a little that would cause a no start from the get go. im not 100% sure thogh.

God I'm hoping that's all. When I picked the car up, the Service Manager told me that it took a few tries to turn over in the morning. Said it was probably something about the cams being aggressive. I figured it was fine since when I got in the car it fired up first try. Thought nothing of it since the car ran great for a few days. Then last week I got it tinted and the guy told me in the morning it took three tries to turn over and start in the morning. I started getting worred but wasn't sure if anything was amiss yet. So, Friday, we get in the car and it didn't turn over the first time...okay, getting nervous...went to the gas station and BAM!!!! It wouldn't start. I'm guessing that Frik and Frak at the dealership didn't set it up correctly...

I couldn't think of anything else that could cause issues like that.

God I'm hoping that's all. When I picked the car up, the Service Manager told me that it took a few tries to turn over in the morning. Said it was probably something about the cams being aggressive. I figured it was fine since when I got in the car it fired up first try. Thought nothing of it since the car ran great for a few days. Then last week I got it tinted and the guy told me in the morning it took three tries to turn over and start in the morning. I started getting worred but wasn't sure if anything was amiss yet. So, Friday, we get in the car and it didn't turn over the first time...okay, getting nervous...went to the gas station and BAM!!!! It wouldn't start. I'm guessing that Frik and Frak at the dealership didn't set it up correctly...

I couldn't think of anything else that could cause issues like that.

I love service managers. Of course they're going to say something lie that. they dont want to fix it for free. they sure as shit dont want to look like fools for doing a improper install. I could see if you put a full race cam in ther but these cams are VERY streetable. NOW I have a set of cams that were custome ground inaddition to the JBP cams now those are agressive :D BTW do you have a stock exhaust and stock clutch?

Just my 2 cents man I dont think its got anything to do with the cams but anythings possible i guess.

Yeah, I don't think it's a design issue with the cams. Just way too improbable that an issue like this could be from the cams. Way more likely that it's the install.

I am running the stock exhaust and clutch. Obviously, those are on the list for upgrading, but as long as I stay away from hard launches the clutch should be fine. It's been strong ever since I bought the car. The exhaust being opened up would definately help with gains, but I'm holding off until I can afford to have RD Fabs custom make one manifold to bumper for me. I'm excited to see what type of power I can make w/o exhaust seeing as 1gmfanatic put down 230whp with the same setup minus the 60's, cams and valve springs. Hopefully with the 2.79", 60's, cams, and tune I should hit 245+ and with full exhaust I'm at 260+ on a mustang dyno. That's such gorilla math, but it's all I have to work with right now...

Yeah, I don't think it's a design issue with the cams. Just way too improbable that an issue like this could be from the cams. Way more likely that it's the install.

I am running the stock exhaust and clutch. Obviously, those are on the list for upgrading, but as long as I stay away from hard launches the clutch should be fine. It's been strong ever since I bought the car. The exhaust being opened up would definately help with gains, but I'm holding off until I can afford to have RD Fabs custom make one manifold to bumper for me. I'm excited to see what type of power I can make w/o exhaust seeing as 1gmfanatic put down 230whp with the same setup minus the 60's, cams and valve springs. Hopefully with the 2.79", 60's, cams, and tune I should hit 245+ and with full exhaust I'm at 260+ on a mustang dyno. That's such gorilla math, but it's all I have to work with right now...


agreed

JBP has qite a bit of R&D in these cams.

I hope to see some good info and my high hopes are out there for ya EDUB...We're basically goin with the same setup. 230 and 217 on the mustang dyno made me a pretty happy guy, especially with the mods that I'm rollin with. With the cams, valve springs, 60's and a good tune, we should be puttin down some pretty decent numbers.

I just spoke with Geoff of colt cams. He's grindidng my cams as we speak. I'm excited!!!!

You should have asked him where the hell he's been the last day or so. The delivery company has tried twice to delivery my stock cores. Once yesterday at 11:30am and once this morning at like 6:30am. They better figure out how to get him those cams cause if they come back to me I'll be pissed. I had to pay $33 to have them shipped w/ insurance and tracking.

You should have asked him where the hell he's been the last day or so. The delivery company has tried twice to delivery my stock cores. Once yesterday at 11:30am and once this morning at like 6:30am. They better figure out how to get him those cams cause if they come back to me I'll be pissed. I had to pay $33 to have them shipped w/ insurance and tracking.

yeah i had to pay the extra insurance as well i had no idea that it existed but 6:30 am they're probably closed aand @ 11 :30 its lunch time you might want to call him i believe hes still there grinding cams.

What's his number?

What's his number?

(604) 856-3571 ask for Geoff

Just read 8 pages and still don't even know if these cams works properly and why dynocharts are still not posted on JBP site.

They work extremely well. Without tuning, about 15whp gain. Still waiting for a dyno with tuning.

I thought e dub showed like a 1hp increase?

Where are his charts at anyway?

I thought e dub showed like a 1hp increase?

Where are his charts at anyway?

edub?

edub?

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1102478&postcount=440

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1102601&postcount=441

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1102478&postcount=440

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1102601&postcount=441

Actually, I believe he is still using them cams. There has been ALOT of tuning issues with em, and that is what is being worked on. He seems to be quite content with the cams though, now that there is some light at the end of the crazy tuning tunnel

Actually, I believe he is still using them cams. There has been ALOT of tuning issues with em, and that is what is being worked on. He seems to be quite content with the cams though, now that there is some light at the end of the crazy tuning tunnel

ah...

edub?

Remember, the guy that bought your cams and you told that the valve springs could be installed while the head was still in the car using your special "valve spring compressor" tool? Both DTM and myself had them installed as you instructed, him by a professional speed shop and me by a GMPP certified dealer. Both of us had valve springs fail, then you told us we should have had the head pulled off and clearanced by a machine shop after the fact. We both had a machine shop look at our heads; obviously, after the valve springs failed and they said there was no need for clearancing, the machine shop installed the springs w/ the head off the car, and we had no issues at all. Member that? I do. I also remember you not replying to the BBB claim that I filed because you didn't want to pony up any money to reimburse me for your lack of mentioning having the head checked for lack of clearance before installing the springs by a machine shop. Ya know? Thanks for that, I really wanted to pay $1800 to have my car fixed after you "forgot" to mention that.

Busteeeeed

damn.... sucks man

Fucked. DTM1288's car was fucked. All because of the shit you call cams. Before them, he would spank me. After them, I put the whooping on him.

15whp gain my ass without tuning. Maybe with messing with the dyno calculations.

Remember, the guy that bought your cams and you told that the valve springs could be installed while the head was still in the car using your special "valve spring compressor" tool? Both DTM and myself had them installed as you instructed, him by a professional speed shop and me by a GMPP certified dealer. Both of us had valve springs fail, then you told us we should have had the head pulled off and clearanced by a machine shop after the fact. We both had a machine shop look at our heads; obviously, after the valve springs failed and they said there was no need for clearancing, the machine shop installed the springs w/ the head off the car, and we had no issues at all. Member that? I do. I also remember you not replying to the BBB claim that I filed because you didn't want to pony up any money to reimburse me for your lack of mentioning having the head checked for lack of clearance before installing the springs by a machine shop. Ya know? Thanks for that, I really wanted to pay $1800 to have my car fixed after you "forgot" to mention that.

We have a chassis valve spring tool. That allows you to install valve springs in the ECOTEC without removing the head. This, is true.

I remember you now. Didn't I spend an entire week discussing everything on the phone with regards to diagnosing the problem with your valvetrain? Don't these professional shops realize that when you install valve springs and they touch the sides of the cylinder head... thats a bad thing? You can't hand-hold everyone and if you take it to a shop they should know something as clearancing if the springs touch. I'd like to know if you are running our springs in your clearanced head without issue?


15whp gain my ass without tuning. Maybe with messing with the dyno calculations.

Messing with dyno calculations... lol, what does that mean exactly? :lol: I'll post the sheets tomorrow when I get to the shop, ON the website, under the TriFlow Stage 2 part number. from an independent tester...

*This one is gonna get good...

Will you guys offer any triflows for the 2.2? All I have seen is the 2.0 and 2.4 on your site. Thanks.

We have a chassis valve spring tool. That allows you to install valve springs in the ECOTEC without removing the head. This, is true.

I remember you now. Didn't I spend an entire week discussing everything on the phone with regards to diagnosing the problem with your valvetrain? Don't these professional shops realize that when you install valve springs and they touch the sides of the cylinder head... thats a bad thing? You can't hand-hold everyone and if you take it to a shop they should know something as clearancing if the springs touch. I'd like to know if you are running our springs in your clearanced head without issue?




Messing with dyno calculations... lol, what does that mean exactly? :lol: I'll post the sheets tomorrow when I get to the shop, ON the website, under the TriFlow Stage 2 part number. from an independent tester...

*This one is gonna get good...

Doesn't mean shit. No way for me to beat a 2.6 pullied car with a bunch of shit done to it, AND your cams. Guess what? I did...

We have a chassis valve spring tool. That allows you to install valve springs in the ECOTEC without removing the head. This, is true.

I remember you now. Didn't I spend an entire week discussing everything on the phone with regards to diagnosing the problem with your valvetrain? Don't these professional shops realize that when you install valve springs and they touch the sides of the cylinder head... thats a bad thing? You can't hand-hold everyone and if you take it to a shop they should know something as clearancing if the springs touch. I'd like to know if you are running our springs in your clearanced head without issue?

I'm sorry, let me break out the crayons for you Mev.

The machine shop diagnosed both of our heads after we had valve spring failure. The failure was due to your advice of installing them while the head was still on the engine and the shitty "chassis valve spring tool." Neither DTM nor my head needed any clearancing of casting flashes to work correctly with the valve springs. Did I say the valve springs were junk? NO! I said your advice was shady because you wanted to sell more cams so you told us we could save over a $1000 by not having to remove the head. I would have never bought the cams if you told me there was a good possibility the head would have to be removed.

And hand holding? I expected you to be a freaking man and stand behind your product. Good vendors don't call that "hand-holding," they call it customer service. I also love how you keep avoiding the fact that you waited until after our valve springs failed to tell us about this possibility. Even though it wasn't the true issue on our cars, it's nice to know that you wouldn't give us warning of something like that being the manufacturer and all. Then all sneaky and shit you go and add it to your website after our problems.

If you were so honest and straight forward, why didn't you respond to the BBB? That shouldn't have been an issue then, but after three contacts, you still refused to respond to the BBB Agent...

Can anyone post me links to the heatshield, 4 pass intercooler plate, and tri-flow cams? Can I get all three for under $2000?

:lol:

Aren't you the guy that argued with him for the first few pages of this thread saying the cams would be no good?

Because I'm a nice guy:

TriFlow Cams (http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/PartDetails.php?partId=868&catId=868&catName=JP0868)

Heat Shield (http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/PartDetails.php?partId=904&catId=904&catName=JP0904)

I don't think they have the 4-pass on their site...

I have their heat shield, NO idea if it actually does anything though. :lol:

I have their heat shield, NO idea if it actually does anything though. :lol:

It doesn't. Just like at the thing. Piece of metal that is all it is. My dick could be a better heat sheild then that.

Here is where the fun begins.

http://cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47242&page=5&highlight=JBP+cams

Here is more bad products from JBP.

http://cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=63294&highlight=jbp+control+arm+bushings

Please don't make me go on....

Let's clarify a few things here:

The cams work perfectly fine in an LSJ. Tips when it comes to them:

1) If you're running higher than the stock rev limiter, you need upgraded valve springs.
2) Valve springs should be installed by a machine shop w/ the head off the car.
3) Restrictions in the intake or exhaust can and will effect tuning.
4) Run a large intake filter.
5) Make sure you already have full exhaust upgrades and not the tiny GM Honed manifold. I'm talking header/dp and 2.5"+ cat-back.

If you plan appropriately, these products will work well. My issues are not w/ JBP's products, they are w/ how JBP handled this situation. The "Chassis Valve Spring Tool" is not meant to work on an LSJ Ecotec engine. The angle of the engine makes clearance on the exhaust side of the head scarce and you will install valve springs incorrectly and they will fail. If I would have known this, I would not have bought the cams & valve springs because I didn't want to pay 10+ hours for the head to be pulled off and sent to a machine shop. Take everything that is in this thread, and my thread, and use that information wisely. The only reason I wouldn't buy JBP products again is because Mev refuses to help reimburse me for a hell of a lot of trouble I had to go through because I was mislead...

Wish ya luck man..Keep on truckin

The machine shop diagnosed both of our heads after we had valve spring failure. The failure was due to your advice of installing them while the head was still on the engine and the shitty "chassis valve spring tool."

"The failure was due to advice of how to install them while the head was still on the engine and the actual chassis valve spring tool... " can you explain this further `cause round here, words and tools don't break valve springs during installation, valve springs touching the side of the head does. So this begs the question, what did they use to install the valve springs that made such a difference...

My dick could be a better heat sheild then that.

thats actually pretty funny, considering, you know... :lol:


Can anyone post me links to the heatshield, 4 pass intercooler plate, and tri-flow cams? Can I get all three for under $2000?

Duh, you have to spend a minimum $5000 on those three components and please make sure that you have a cheque or credit card ready.... ;)

Bah, just get the 272 or 280 HKS Spec cams. Cheaper and will probably see better gains.

question. can we give a supporting vendor negative rep if something like this happens?;)

Let's clarify a few things here:

The cams work perfectly fine in an LSJ. Tips when it comes to them:

1) If you're running higher than the stock rev limiter, you need upgraded valve springs.
2) Valve springs should be installed by a machine shop w/ the head off the car.
3) Restrictions in the intake or exhaust can and will effect tuning.
4) Run a large intake filter.
5) Make sure you already have full exhaust upgrades and not the tiny GM Honed manifold. I'm talking header/dp and 2.5"+ cat-back.

If you plan appropriately, these products will work well. My issues are not w/ JBP's products, they are w/ how JBP handled this situation. The "Chassis Valve Spring Tool" is not meant to work on an LSJ Ecotec engine. The angle of the engine makes clearance on the exhaust side of the head scarce and you will install valve springs incorrectly and they will fail. If I would have known this, I would not have bought the cams & valve springs because I didn't want to pay 10+ hours for the head to be pulled off and sent to a machine shop. Take everything that is in this thread, and my thread, and use that information wisely. The only reason I wouldn't buy JBP products again is because Mev refuses to help reimburse me for a hell of a lot of trouble I had to go through because I was mislead...

Sorry, people right after I post in this thread so its hard to keep up. I just don't see the responsibility here. When I clearly have done enough valvetrain installs to see when theres a problem with a spring clearance issue or not. Bates Eng. spring no need for clearance, ours need clearancing on the exhaust side, ferrera, needs it on both sides.

Now what your saying above makes sense... total sense. I like it when things flow and not the gibber-jabber you mentioned previously... Talk to me via PM. I've got some options to discuss about this whole fiasco...

"The failure was due to advice of how to install them while the head was still on the engine and the actual chassis valve spring tool... " can you explain this further `cause round here, words and tools don't break valve springs during installation, valve springs touching the side of the head does. So this begs the question, what did they use to install the valve springs that made such a difference...

Sure, when using your specialty "tool." Springs were improperly seated during installation. That means that they were not touching the head until the engine was actually functioning and they shifted into the head. If they were touching directly after installation, then explain to me how I drove 500+ miles before the spring failed? Hmmm???

Also, why do you keep avoiding the fact that you waited until after our cars had problems to mention the whole possible issue? I find it funny how you keep acting like you did nothing wrong, but your actions show otherwise. Why didn't you respond to the BBB? Why did you add the information about the casting flashes onto your website after we had our issues?

he "Chassis Valve Spring Tool" is not meant to work on an LSJ Ecotec engine. The angle of the engine makes clearance on the exhaust side of the head scarce and you will install valve springs incorrectly and they will fail.

I read to fast, everything you said is true except this... We designed our tool off the Kent-Moore unit for the L61 that doesn't fit the LSJ. You can do a chassis installation of any spring pending that the clearance of that spring is not in question. I only had one customer watch me do the spring installation with both the Kent-Moore tool and our Tool, Player_1, who can attest that our tool works perfectly for an in-chassis installation.

I read to fast, everything you said is true except this... We designed our tool off the Kent-Moore unit for the L61 that doesn't fit the LSJ. You can do a chassis installation of any spring pending that the clearance of that spring is not in question. I only had one customer watch me do the spring installation with both the Kent-Moore tool and our Tool, Player_1, who can attest that our tool works perfectly for an in-chassis installation.

Your customized tool might work perfectly fine when you use it; however, there has to be some flaw in the design. My reasoning behind this is that two seasoned mechanics both used your tool without success. Neither talked to eachother beforehand. Maybe there is something out-of-the-ordinary that you do when you use this tool that would have to be "instructed" to a mechanic before using your tool. No instructions were provided and the tools "functionally" worked in providing the ability to install the valve springs w/ the head in the car. There must be some flaw in the design; though, for two seperate shops to not be able to use it successfully.

This issue, cost me an additional $1800 on top of my initial installation costs. I am not happy...

How do you like yours cams now that everything is done right? What kind of gains did you see?

Your customized tool might work perfectly fine when you use it; however, there has to be some flaw in the design. My reasoning behind this is that two seasoned mechanics both used your tool without success. Neither talked to eachother beforehand. Maybe there is something out-of-the-ordinary that you do when you use this tool that would have to be "instructed" to a mechanic before using your tool. No instructions were provided and the tools "functionally" worked in providing the ability to install the valve springs w/ the head in the car. There must be some flaw in the design; though, for two seperate shops to not be able to use it successfully.


It is tight back there on the exhaust side, but more than enough space for the tool to operate. I mean, the tool is just two round bars and a threaded rod, it's pretty basic.

These 6mm locks are tiny. If you loose a lock down a hole or don't set a lock up square, your bound to have a failure.

How do you like yours cams now that everything is done right? What kind of gains did you see?

I love them now. Gains is something I can't speculate on. I did not have the car dyno'd beforehand. My only dyno numbers come from a "hot run" at the end of a long day in 80 degree weather w/ high 80's for humidity. I put down 244whp on a mustang dyno. That is equivelant to 270-280, depending on what dynojet you're on. The only comparison I had was a dynograph from a 2.8 pullied car w/ full exhaust that ran in much better conditions. I did not make more peak power than him; however, I made much more power under the curve. If I had dyno'd in colder and less humid conditions w/ my new cat-back, I would easily put down more peak power than him, as well as more power under the curve. I have been financially set-back ever since I had to deal w/ all of these issues last spring and because of that, I can not afford to pay $125/hr to have it re-dyno tuned in this nice weather. I have to settle for a few tweaks off the dyno just to get my idle right and play w/ my boost reduction...

It is tight back there on the exhaust side, but more than enough space for the tool to operate. I mean, the tool is just two round bars and a threaded rod, it's pretty basic.

These 6mm locks are tiny. If you loose a lock down a hole or don't set a lock up square, your bound to have a failure.

Regardless, I do not believe this tool is "universally" functional. You should not keep offering it as a solution or people will continue to have problems like DTM and myself. I will put money on that...

Did you notice a gain though? How does it effect the cars drivability on the street? Does the car sound good?

Okay, hold on a sec, :lol:

Lots of ?'s

Of course I noticed a gain. I also went from the Stage II pulley to a 2.79 installed along w/ the cams/valve springs. Driveability is fine as long as you are tuned properly. W/ something as drastic as cams, significant weather changes can drastically effect idle conditions and the car takes a bit to adjust. Sure it's more touchy, but I still feel it's worth it. The car has a lower tone and a different pitch w/ the cams. I loved it w/ a header and the stock exhaust on. Since I'm crazy and want the best HP, I now have a full 3" exhaust w/ no muffler (just 2 resonators) on so my car is crazy loud. Sounds like a busa' in person. If you closed your eyes, you would never guess that it was a car...

+rep for answering questions! Hey look I gave you another green box! LOL whenever I give anyone rep they get another box!

Hey, thanks for the green box! Glad I could help you with your questions. If you, or anyone else for that matter, decides to buy them, get in touch w/ me through PM so I can help you make sure that nothing that happened to me happens to you...

And Mev, I'm waiting for a response to my PM...

responded...

I was the other victim of the whole JBP cam, cam tool, etc. debacle. My car went to to a professional speed shop that is more than capable of performing any and all work on any and all cars, numerous people and members here can vouch for that! It was a very unfortunate situation and series of events that took place which in all honesty really led me to get rid of my car. I was told all the same information to Edubs, the head didn't have to be taken apart, JBP cams would suffice, gains would be great and seen throughout the entire power band, etc, etc. Well, my car was down for two months and repair costs were $1000+. My car first blew the headgasket (which is very possible that it had nothing to do with the cams at all, in fact I doubt that). While the head was being examined after that, it was seen that one of the valve springs had failed, why though? Clearance issues! The machine shop clearly stated that clearance was an obvious issue and was the cause for my "Random Cylinder Misfires" and an erratic idle. After the two months of waiting and waiting to get things fixed, it came time for tuning. Again, the same shop performed the tuning and was succesful in getting the idle under control for the most part, but power output was to me... pathetic. The car felt slower, less powerful, less enjoyable! And my numbers proved it too. Before, on a Dynojet I put down 271whp/260wtq, then after the install I put down on a Mustang Dyno 241whp/216wtq :(. Again, they are different dynos, but the numbers dont add up at all. As damien stated, I would put a few car lenghts on other local Cobalts and after the install I was losing by 1-2 car lengths! C'mon now, these cams just did not perform to my expectations or anyone else's. I am happy to see that Edubs has been succesfully running the cams without any further issues, but I agree 100% with him, a lot of time, money spent, headaches, and dissapointment could have been spared with proper installation instructions/machinery/tools. Who's fault is that? I'm never one to bash on anyone or any vendors, but JBP is at fault for that, bottom line.

The hand compressor tool was absolute shit, I don't care what anyone else says. My performance shop saw it and sent it back immediatly after attempting to use it without any success at all. Then they purchased a more professional tool to use which worked well and to its abilities. JBP refers to Player_1 as one who can vouch for the compressor tool, are serious? What about all the issues that he had and all the problems he had, what products did he mainly use? JBP. I'm not hating on JBP, but if a company fails to produce proper instructions, tools, parts, equipment, customer service, etc. and things go wrong, then they shouldn't cover up the issue(s) and ignore it, instead they should sack up and take blame or atleast attempt to make a valid effort in helping resolve the problems at hand. Matt from TTP was in contact with JBP and felt the same way about there service, it left a lot to be desired. For anyone considering these cams, they will work as long as everything is set up before hand (supporting mods) and the install is done properly from the get go. It was an unfortunate situation, did I ever ask for money back? No. Could I have? Yes. But shit happens, it just sucks that those at fault don't take the blame and make an attempt to help. End of rant. Edubs FTW :lol:

enough time has passed from the inital GP... I'd like to hear from everyone else who has installed or attempted to install the cams, results and expectations. This includes both regrind and steel billet cam users. I'd like to also hear from everyone whom purchased valve springs and who did their installation and how their installation went.

We'll get to the bottom of this, one way or another.

ttt, i would like to know how these cams worked out for others too.

I have a friend who bought your LSJ S2TF cams and received a set of L61 S2TF cams. I ended up buying them off him hoping I would have some success. We tried to return them but was refused. We tried to exchange them but you told us that you needed LSJ cores before they could be exchanged.

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72549


Initially when i bought theses I was siked and couldn't wait until I had them in and tuned. I was hoping for a big increase with the other mods I've done. From there I was going to get a Dyno and foward it to you so it could be posted. I usually support companies that provide a good product with good Customer assistance. Maybe I was talking to you durring hard times ??? IDK

Initially when i bought theses I was siked and couldn't wait until I had them in and tuned. I was hoping for a big increase with the other mods I've done. From there I was going to get a Dyno and foward it to you so it could be posted. I usually support companies that provide a good product with good Customer assistance. Maybe I was talking to you durring hard times ??? IDK

I was planning on doing the same as well, just didn't turn out that way though.

enough time has passed from the inital GP... I'd like to hear from everyone else who has installed or attempted to install the cams, results and expectations. This includes both regrind and steel billet cam users. I'd like to also hear from everyone whom purchased valve springs and who did their installation and how their installation went.

We'll get to the bottom of this, one way or another.


Well im glad you guys are interested in helping others with issues. I too bought a set of the T/F stage II cams during the G/B. I have them in my custom Hybrid ECOTEC engine. I have not ran the engine yet. I'm a little scared to run the engine with these cams because of the issues that others have had and the lack of customer support they are/were receiving. I did install my cams myself but I must say im not an amature. I have more then 2 years work experience it takes to receive an ASE cert. Innaddition, I have several of them under my belt to include but not limited to Engine repair, engine performance and advance engine performance. even though I dont/haven't used in the professional world in a few years I still keep up on them. (also the only reason I brought this up is so that it cant be said (if i do have issues) that its because the install wasnt performed by a professional) anyway like I said Im a bit nervous about running my custom engine. hopefully if I do have issues JBP will be there to assist me.

great, can you also state what you bought. ie: billets/regrinds and/or JBP springs or other springs. There's enough ppl to get a good all around test bed. The local guys who have our cams and had them installed by me have nothing but positive results with good whp.

I have your CAB's (bought from INTENSE Racing) .....no problems with the CAB's...checked yesterday too



Would you take the cams back now? Or atleast exchange them 1 for 1? ;)

Nothing like the feeling of dropping $700 on cams that ended up being for a L61 :thumbsdow

great, can you also state what you bought. ie: billets/regrinds and/or JBP springs or other springs. There's enough ppl to get a good all around test bed. The local guys who have our cams and had them installed by me have nothing but positive results with good whp.

sure they are regrinds. (I couldnt justify the 800 for the billet cores you guys wanted) not to mention you guys were saying how it didnt really matter idf they were regrinds or new grinds. i have the ferrea valve springs and titanium locks. maby ill have luck with them. well i hope I do. I'm almost certain that the JBP team is NOT the only place in north america that can install these cams or any cams for that matter. Are these guy's that have had the install done at JBP on these forums? If so who are they? I even went as far as to degree these cams. I dont know if you recall but you receiven a email from a pretty unique email address. it was a @navy.mil email address and it was aking for the exact specs centerlines for the Stage II T/F cams. well that was me. I asked for the specs just so I could degree the cams. Honestly like I said I think/hope that these cams are going to perform flawlessly. if for some reason they dont I need to know that you guys are going to help me out and not throw me on the back burner like ive see happen to others.

I have your CAB's (bought from INTENSE Racing) .....no problems with the CAB's...checked yesterday too



Would you take the cams back now? Or atleast exchange them 1 for 1? ;)

Nothing like the feeling of dropping $700 on cams that ended up being for a L61 :thumbsdow



that would be B/S ifd they didnt replace them. you didnt get what you payed for bottom line.

sure they are regrinds. (I couldnt justify the 800 for the billet cores you guys wanted) not to mention you guys were saying how it didnt really matter idf they were regrinds or new grinds. i have the ferrea valve springs and titanium locks. maby ill have luck with them. well i hope I do. I'm almost certain that the JBP team is NOT the only place in north america that can install these cams or any cams for that matter. Are these guy's that have had the install done at JBP on these forums? If so who are they? I even went as far as to degree these cams. I dont know if you recall but you receiven a email from a pretty unique email address. it was a @navy.mil email address and it was aking for the exact specs centerlines for the Stage II T/F cams. well that was me. I asked for the specs just so I could degree the cams. Honestly like I said I think/hope that these cams are going to perform flawlessly. if for some reason they dont I need to know that you guys are going to help me out and not throw me on the back burner like ive see happen to others.

I would like to know this as well. And why haven't any dyno charts been produced yet either?

I have your CAB's (bought from INTENSE Racing) .....no problems with the CAB's...checked yesterday too



Would you take the cams back now? Or atleast exchange them 1 for 1? ;)

Nothing like the feeling of dropping $700 on cams that ended up being for a L61 :thumbsdow

Yeah, the CABs were a real issue, both on our part and the installation of some customers. You can't push them into the control arm using the center pin... Some customers admit to doing this and we still offer an exchange. If they ever fail, give us a holler, we'll exchange `em.

As for the cams I'm not too sure what youre referring to?... Can you PM me and give me some background info.

sure they are regrinds. (I couldnt justify the 800 for the billet cores you guys wanted) not to mention you guys were saying how it didnt really matter idf they were regrinds or new grinds. i have the ferrea valve springs and titanium locks. maby ill have luck with them. well i hope I do. I'm almost certain that the JBP team is NOT the only place in north america that can install these cams or any cams for that matter. Are these guy's that have had the install done at JBP on these forums? If so who are they? I even went as far as to degree these cams. I dont know if you recall but you receiven a email from a pretty unique email address. it was a @navy.mil email address and it was aking for the exact specs centerlines for the Stage II T/F cams. well that was me. I asked for the specs just so I could degree the cams. Honestly like I said I think/hope that these cams are going to perform flawlessly. if for some reason they dont I need to know that you guys are going to help me out and not throw me on the back burner like ive see happen to others.

that would be B/S ifd they didnt replace them. you didnt get what you payed for bottom line.

We don't remember every email address/customer.. It's just too much to deal with. Hence why we went dealer only.. It frees up a huge time constraint that we were having.

Regardless, regrinds vs. billets, you'll get the same profile. Some people prefer the billets seeing as they are steel not cast and much more durable. If you degreed them, you should definately get matching specs. Can you scan and post the profile sheet you got from degreeing?

We're not the only place to install the cams, but I've seen enough people who were genuinely, 100% sure of how to go about installing the cams and screwed things up. This is why we recommended going straight to the dealer for installation.

You have ferreas', then you MUST clearance the head. No question about it... I've done those myself and we made a custom tool to do the seats and oil frames.

Other than that, you should be fine.

Are these guy's that have had the install done at JBP on these forums? If so who are they?

I missed this one... some are, they just have to pipe up...

Yeah, the CABs were a real issue, both on our part and the installation of some customers. You can't push them into the control arm using the center pin... Some customers admit to doing this and we still offer an exchange. If they ever fail, give us a holler, we'll exchange `em.

As for the cams I'm not too sure what youre referring to?... Can you PM me and give me some background info.



We don't remember every email address/customer.. It's just too much to deal with. Hence why we went dealer only.. It frees up a huge time constraint that we were having.

Regardless, regrinds vs. billets, you'll get the same profile. Some people prefer the billets seeing as they are steel not cast and much more durable. If you degreed them, you should definately get matching specs. Can you scan and post the profile sheet you got from degreeing?

We're not the only place to install the cams, but I've seen enough people who were genuinely, 100% sure of how to go about installing the cams and screwed things up. This is why we recommended going straight to the dealer for installation.

You have ferreas', then you MUST clearance the head. No question about it... I've done those myself and we made a custom tool to do the seats and oil frames.
Other than that, you should be fine.



I missed this one... some are, they just have to pipe up...


my head has been set up and ported and polished by Dave Endrigo of flowtechnics. www.flowtechnicsonline.com there have been (others with the LSJ engine) to run cams that are way more agressive profiles then the T/F stage II cams, they have not had any cylinder head issues. Wait I take that back there has been one guy who had issues but again he is/was very limited when it comes to experience with cars let alone installing cams. anyway I know you guys get alot of customers but if you say that there are local guys who are running them without issues because you've installed the cams. Dont you think that you may want to check your service recordsfor thier phone number or something and give them a call and say, "hey guy/guys heres whats going on there are alot of people who are having issues or are scared to run my cams becauyse they think that thgey are going to have issues can you get on here and post up" IMHO if they are satisfied customers then they most likely wouldnt have any problem with backing you up. Untill then you can come here and say all you want. this is the internet you wouldnt be the first one to come to a forum and spread B/S. Dont get me wrong im not saying that your doing that but you've never came out with dyno sheets, you dont have actual customers backing you up and from what it sounds like your not helping the people with issues after they installed your product. i remember you saying that you have spent alot of time and money with R&D on these cams well isnt all of this part of Proper R&D? I spoke with Geoff at colt cams more times then I can count and he has a hard time getting ahold of you too. shit man i havent even ran these cams and with each post you make I get more and more scared to jack my $5+K engine up. Geoff has given me everything ive needed and then some everytime I speak with him. like I said all most of us including myself want to hear from you is that if we can have some sort of proof that if we have these cams installed correctly and a issue shoulod arise that directly relates to your cams that you would rectify the situation. you keep avoiding nor have anyof us seen proof that your attempting to fix any of the guys issues. you recommend the dealer huh. what if I tod you that my dealership managed to put a giant hole in my oil pan and told me that they slipped with a wrench would you reccomend them then? how can you back someone up that you have no idea of there track record. (is it the paperwork that they may have? if so I can show you certs untill your eyes fall out that I have personally obtained. or is it the fact that then you can blame it on the dealership if there is an issue with your cams? like I said we need reassurance here Mev and your not giving it.

MVP, if I were you, I would scrap those cams and go with something already proven. I know its not what you want to hear, but like you said, you just dumped a boat load of money into that engine and for it to go wrong because of these cams would suck. As stated over and over again, JBP has yet to provide the "happy" and "satisfied" customers who have these cams, dyno charts, and solutions to those with problems with the cams (including myself). You guys are ignoring the questions, you are putting the big issues aside, you aren't helping solve the problems, and you aren't producing real facts and numbers.

MVP, if I were you, I would scrap those cams and go with something already proven. I know its not what you want to hear, but like you said, you just dumped a boat load of money into that engine and for it to go wrong because of these cams would suck. As stated over and over again, JBP has yet to provide the "happy" and "satisfied" customers who have these cams, dyno charts, and solutions to those with problems with the cams (including myself). You guys are ignoring the questions, you are putting the big issues aside, you aren't helping solve the problems, and you aren't producing real facts and numbers.

well im the one who originated the whole evo 272 cams well i wont take credit for it i helped. the person who first brought it up with the whole evo HKS specs on a LSJ was sinister redlines over on the RLF. the cams i speak of you may have seen floating around in a few cobalt SS S/C cars and a few Ion REDLINES. the same guy who those cams come through is the same guy who set my head up. also what you just said about JBP couldnt be more true right now.

I called two of our previous customers who's cams Ive installed, they don't nor want anything to do with the internet. To be truthful and unbiased, one customer didn't like the cams due to the idle quality, while the other was very happy with it.

Without any delay, I can show the dyno's from our tester car way back... (some might recall this dyno) This dyno showed, in the mid range, approximately 15whp untuned gain.

Otherwise, I'd have to pull a customers car back in here that has the cams and dyno it to get real numbers.

I can't Geoff sometimes too, doesn't mean he doesn't care... We're a three man shop. I'm stretched beyond belief with Rods project and about 50 other things to do with the shop. It may sound whiny, but its the truth. I'm willing to work with anyone with anything reasonable... Which is why this is a call out to those with cams from the GB.... So far, only yourself came forward and you didn't even install the cams. I just checked our records, we've sold over 38 sets of TF cams... All ECOTEC engines. Where's everyone who installed the cams...

Now, this is directly right at your MVP and only you. If you install the cams and don't like them, please SEND THEM BACK... If you install the cams and the cams are at fault for damaging your engine, I'll cover the cost to fix it. <-- It's in writing!

Yeah, the CABs were a real issue, both on our part and the installation of some customers. You can't push them into the control arm using the center pin... Some customers admit to doing this and we still offer an exchange. If they ever fail, give us a holler, we'll exchange `em.

As for the cams I'm not too sure what youre referring to?... Can you PM me and give me some background info.



I have a press so the CAB's were no problem....they are still holding up too :twothumbs .

Sent you a PM about me getting L61 cams instead of LSJ cams.

well im the one who originated the whole evo 272 cams well i wont take credit for it i helped. the person who first brought it up with the whole evo HKS specs on a LSJ was sinister redlines over on the RLF. the cams i speak of you may have seen floating around in a few cobalt SS S/C cars and a few Ion REDLINES. the same guy who those cams come through is the same guy who set my head up. also what you just said about JBP couldnt be more true right now.
Its funny because I now have an Evo haha. If you ever are interested in a set of HKS 272's, I can probably get them cheaper with my forum discount over there, let me know.

I called two of our previous customers who's cams Ive installed, they don't nor want anything to do with the internet. To be truthful and unbiased, one customer didn't like the cams due to the idle quality, while the other was very happy with it.

Without any delay, I can show the dyno's from our tester car way back... (some might recall this dyno) This dyno showed, in the mid range, approximately 15whp untuned gain.

Otherwise, I'd have to pull a customers car back in here that has the cams and dyno it to get real numbers.

I can't Geoff sometimes too, doesn't mean he doesn't care... We're a three man shop. I'm stretched beyond belief with Rods project and about 50 other things to do with the shop. It may sound whiny, but its the truth. I'm willing to work with anyone with anything reasonable... Which is why this is a call out to those with cams from the GB.... So far, only yourself came forward and you didn't even install the cams. I just checked our records, we've sold over 38 sets of TF cams... All ECOTEC engines. Where's everyone who installed the cams...
Now, this is directly right at your MVP and only you. If you install the cams and don't like them, please SEND THEM BACK... If you install the cams and the cams are at fault for damaging your engine, I'll cover the cost to fix it. <-- It's in writing!

I would like to see both the original dyno sheet and someone else's dyno sheet that you would have to call to come in to get dyno'ed.

What can you do for me? My cams were installed already, you know the story already. Can't I be compensated some how?

Also, if 38 sets of cams were sold, doesn't it seem odd that there is very little positive talk about the cams and no dyno sheets at all?

Haha, nope I can't beat $250, I tried haha.

Haha, nope I can't beat $250, I tried haha.

thanks for the offer I appreciate it.

Hopefully everything goes smoothly with your build and things get sorted out here in a timely matter for everyone involved.

I can get the grind put on a LSJ cam for 250 bucks. it also includes the nessesary shims to ensure that the proper valve train geometry is maintained. if you can beat that price that would be awesome.




HKS dosent actually do the grind on the LSJ cams. its another cam grinder.


Am I reading this right??? $250 for HKS 272 grind w/shims??? :wow:

I called two of our previous customers who's cams Ive installed, they don't nor want anything to do with the internet. To be truthful and unbiased, one customer didn't like the cams due to the idle quality, while the other was very happy with it.

Without any delay, I can show the dyno's from our tester car way back... (some might recall this dyno) This dyno showed, in the mid range, approximately 15whp untuned gain.

Otherwise, I'd have to pull a customers car back in here that has the cams and dyno it to get real numbers.

I can't Geoff sometimes too, doesn't mean he doesn't care... We're a three man shop. I'm stretched beyond belief with Rods project and about 50 other things to do with the shop. It may sound whiny, but its the truth. I'm willing to work with anyone with anything reasonable... Which is why this is a call out to those with cams from the GB.... So far, only yourself came forward and you didn't even install the cams. I just checked our records, we've sold over 38 sets of TF cams... All ECOTEC engines. Where's everyone who installed the cams...

Now, this is directly right at your MVP and only you. If you install the cams and don't like them, please SEND THEM BACK... If you install the cams and the cams are at fault for damaging your engine, I'll cover the cost to fix it. <-- It's in writing!


mine were bought right before the group buy...IIRC.

wow I've been gone quite awhile, with work wedding and baby, but I had no idea this post had gone so bad, otherwise I would have posted long ago.

I now have 80K on my car, 60K of which had the stage 2 cams. those are my dyno charts, because I was the tester for the Cams.
right now my car is running strong, no codes, and tuned with an AF of 12 right to redline.

I saw some complaints about how JBP should be responsible for the install, which is ridiculous, to say the least.

people have asked happy customers to pipe up, which is the only reason I'm posting, if you have any questions feel free to PM me, I have no issues answering questions.
I hat to bring up old posts, so I'll end my rant here.
ciao

mod smart everyone

If these CAMs run rich normally, how do you think they would run on Stage 3, or would adding these cams and the 50 shot probably just shove it over the edge?

If these CAMs run rich normally, how do you think they would run on Stage 3, or would adding these cams and the 50 shot probably just shove it over the edge?

A tune is needed, without a doubt... otherwise you aren't pulling the most HP possible out of ANY of your mods.

And if you haven't bought these cams yet... I have my set for sale w/ valve springs ($550 shipped for it all). I'm selling my car... so I am getting rid of them.