Hey..

Just wondering on how other people feel about this car's shifting transitions.. I heard from my buddy that there was a review from GM itself saying that this car is not a car that likes to shift smooth.. I mean compared to some other cars.. It just doesn't seem to have a nice point to shift at to have a nice smooth shift..

I drove my buddies brothers Toyota Celica the other night from the bar (he was to drunk) and man does that thing shift nice.. Even my 1990 Beretta shifts nicer then this car.. And that car is kind of performance orientated. And I know how to shift so I mean you can say its driver error. Cause like I said I drove the Celica and had nice smooth shifts.. Same with my Beretta.. And also the fact that I am a transport truck driver, and I drive alot of miles in a day.. More miles in a day then more people will put on it like 1 week of driving.

Any else find that this car is below normal for shifting smooth??

Just kind of sucks, cause I mean sometimes I would like a really smooth nice shift. But it just isn't going to happen in this car. I have done it sometimes (well it was ok) but I mean nothing compare to the Celica.. It just comes natural on the Celica.. This car is likes you fighting to get a nice shift. I mean my truck seems to have the same kind of shifting at the car lol.. That's not very good

I've noticed it to be jerky at times, but it doesn't really bother me. While rolling in 2nd gear it does tend to buck slightly when you let the rev's drop too low. I'm not sure if that's normal for a standard shift car since this is my first.

I've got no problems driving it smoothly...

I am also the type of guy that double clutches all the time when down shifting, so I don't just throw it through the gears when driving normally, i'm pretty methodical and precise about it.

I've noticed it to be jerky at times, but it doesn't really bother me. While rolling in 2nd gear it does tend to buck slightly when you let the rev's drop too low. I'm not sure if that's normal for a standard shift car since this is my first.


ditto
when its cold, i notice it is more jerky also

I've got no problems driving it smoothly...

I am also the type of guy that double clutches all the time when down shifting, so I don't just throw it through the gears when driving normally, i'm pretty methodical and precise about it.

want to explain what double clutching is for me? thanks ive always wanted to know

want to explain what double clutching is for me? thanks ive always wanted to know
http://felixwong.com/openroad/double_clutch.html

Here's a pretty good explanation.

Now what is the difference between
-shitting into neutral letting out the clutch hitting the gas, pushing in the clutch then shiffing down( normal double clutching)

and

-pushing in the clutch, shifting down then pushing the gas while the clutch is still in to match revs?

Now what is the difference between
-shitting into neutral letting out the clutch hitting the gas, pushing in the clutch then shiffing down( normal double clutching)

and

-pushing in the clutch, shifting down then pushing the gas while the clutch is still in to match revs?
Both are used to "match revs" but the 2nd one you mentioned only uses one clutch press, so you would call that just plain "rev matching".

There is no need to double clutch in these cars.. It does nothing for this cars.. Double clutching is needed in NON-SYNCORMESH (sp) transmissions.. These are already SYCHRONIZED so double clutching is not really an advantage..

I have to double clutch in my truck, cause if I don't then it will not go into gear and it will just grind the gears.. Same with upshifting I have to double clutch as well.. Any time I am changing gears I have to double clutch.. Going up a gear I just doubt clutch and downshifting I Double clutch and put it into gear.

But like I said.. Doing it in a car will have no advantage.. Contrary to what people believe.

There is no need to double clutch in these cars.. It does nothing for this cars.. Double clutching is needed in NON-SYNCORMESH (sp) transmissions.. These are already SYCHRONIZED so double clutching is not really an advantage..

I have to double clutch in my truck, cause if I don't then it will not go into gear and it will just grind the gears.. Same with upshifting I have to double clutch as well.. Any time I am changing gears I have to double clutch.. Going up a gear I just doubt clutch and downshifting I Double clutch and put it into gear.

But like I said.. Doing it in a car will have no advantage.. Contrary to what people believe.
You're right, but you could find it helpful on an auto-x course with heel-and-toe shifting.

There is no need to double clutch in these cars.. It does nothing for this cars.. Double clutching is needed in NON-SYNCORMESH (sp) transmissions.. These are already SYCHRONIZED so double clutching is not really an advantage..

I have to double clutch in my truck, cause if I don't then it will not go into gear and it will just grind the gears.. Same with upshifting I have to double clutch as well.. Any time I am changing gears I have to double clutch.. Going up a gear I just doubt clutch and downshifting I Double clutch and put it into gear.

But like I said.. Doing it in a car will have no advantage.. Contrary to what people believe.


It does have a little advatage, it smooths out the ride. DOwnshifting without matching the revs pulls the car down like a bitch. And doesnt feel to good either.

Now what is the difference between
-shitting into neutral letting out the clutch hitting the gas, pushing in the clutch then shiffing down( normal double clutching)

and

-pushing in the clutch, shifting down then pushing the gas while the clutch is still in to match revs?

When you leave the clutch in and rev you are going to wear your throwout bearing more quickly. This is also a non-lubricated part, so not the best idea.

There is no need to double clutch in these cars.. It does nothing for this cars.. Double clutching is needed in NON-SYNCORMESH (sp) transmissions.. These are already SYCHRONIZED so double clutching is not really an advantage..

I have to double clutch in my truck, cause if I don't then it will not go into gear and it will just grind the gears.. Same with upshifting I have to double clutch as well.. Any time I am changing gears I have to double clutch.. Going up a gear I just doubt clutch and downshifting I Double clutch and put it into gear.

But like I said.. Doing it in a car will have no advantage.. Contrary to what people believe.

Absolutely wrong.

There are several advantages:

#1 less clutch wear. When you let the clutch out slowly to downshift without rev matching (as posted above, rev matching with the clutch still in is BAD) you wear the clutch as it slips to match the engine speed.

#2 Faster shifts. Instead of waiting for the revs to slowly match (letting the clutch out instantly when downshifting will jerk you to hell) you can drop the clutch out instantly if your revs are matched correctly. Also when going to pass on the highway for instance, you can drop a gear or 2 way faster than the traditional way.

#3 Less wear on your syncros. My syncros take a bit of a beating when I'm up-shifting as fast as I can when accelerating, so I give them a break when I'm driving normally. Wrecked syncros suck!

everytime i hear the term double clutching.....i think of the movie fast n the ferious :lol:

There is no need to double clutch in these cars.. It does nothing for this cars.. Double clutching is needed in NON-SYNCORMESH (sp) transmissions.. These are already SYCHRONIZED so double clutching is not really an advantage..

I have to double clutch in my truck, cause if I don't then it will not go into gear and it will just grind the gears.. Same with upshifting I have to double clutch as well.. Any time I am changing gears I have to double clutch.. Going up a gear I just doubt clutch and downshifting I Double clutch and put it into gear.

But like I said.. Doing it in a car will have no advantage.. Contrary to what people believe.


Why do you use the clutch at all? What kind of Transmission is it?

I usally drive an Eaton Fuller 8 speed in a gravel truck. (but have driven 13 speeds and 18 speeds) I use the clutch to go in first from a stop (and into reverse) and I don't use it again.

Upshifts and downshifts with no clutch

Why do you use the clutch at all? What kind of Transmission is it?

I usally drive an Eaton Fuller 8 speed in a gravel truck. (but have driven 13 speeds and 18 speeds) I use the clutch to go in first from a stop (and into reverse) and I don't use it again.

Upshifts and downshifts with no clutch
You may get away with that in a large truck, but that'll tear up the syncromesh in our cars if not done perfectly.

Why do you use the clutch at all? What kind of Transmission is it?

I usally drive an Eaton Fuller 8 speed in a gravel truck. (but have driven 13 speeds and 18 speeds) I use the clutch to go in first from a stop (and into reverse) and I don't use it again.

Upshifts and downshifts with no clutch

I meant in a General aspect.. I don't use the clutch in my truck either.. I have driven 10, 13, 15 and 18 speeds.. I don't use the clutch the only time I use it is when I am at a complete stop.. If I am at a rolling stop then I don't use the clutch for that.. Sorry if I mis-lead ya .. :)

Hey..

Just wondering on how other people feel about this car's shifting transitions.. I heard from my buddy that there was a review from GM itself saying that this car is not a car that likes to shift smooth.. I mean compared to some other cars.. It just doesn't seem to have a nice point to shift at to have a nice smooth shift..

I drove my buddies brothers Toyota Celica the other night from the bar (he was to drunk) and man does that thing shift nice.. Even my 1990 Beretta shifts nicer then this car.. And that car is kind of performance orientated. And I know how to shift so I mean you can say its driver error. Cause like I said I drove the Celica and had nice smooth shifts.. Same with my Beretta.. And also the fact that I am a transport truck driver, and I drive alot of miles in a day.. More miles in a day then more people will put on it like 1 week of driving.

Any else find that this car is below normal for shifting smooth??

Just kind of sucks, cause I mean sometimes I would like a really smooth nice shift. But it just isn't going to happen in this car. I have done it sometimes (well it was ok) but I mean nothing compare to the Celica.. It just comes natural on the Celica.. This car is likes you fighting to get a nice shift. I mean my truck seems to have the same kind of shifting at the car lol.. That's not very good



I know what you mean on this one. I struggled with getting a smooth shift out of this one too ( I have been driving standard over 20 years, I have a tractor trailer repair business so I am no stranger to shifting). I think these cars are a little tougher because of the stiffer clutch and all of the torque in the throttle. I think there is a tendancy to shift much slower when not racing and the revs drop really fast in these cars. Try shifting a little quicker,still let up the clutch slower and really feather back into the thottle. Just my opinion,I am in no way an authority but WTF give it a try :) .

Steve.

WEIRD.... I just got back from driving my dad's 6-speed mini cooper S. The cobalt ss is almost impossible to shift compared to this thing. I think it is that the throttle is too rev happy on the SS. Having them both be supercharged 4-cyl, I would expect the power delivery to be near the same, but the cooper S is sooo easy to drive. The cobalt SS is a wreck.

I meant in a General aspect.. I don't use the clutch in my truck either.. I have driven 10, 13, 15 and 18 speeds.. I don't use the clutch the only time I use it is when I am at a complete stop.. If I am at a rolling stop then I don't use the clutch for that.. Sorry if I mis-lead ya .. :)

whew.... ;) just checking! :D

so much misinformation in this thread where to get started


you people have "revmatching" confused with double clutching... the jerkiness u can avoid is when u push the clutch in and blip the throttle then slowly release the clutch, thus the revs are already matched and its a smoother engagement

THIS IS NOT DOUBLE CLUTCHING

real double clutching is useless on our cars because of the synchos...u are in fact creating a slower car because u are spending more time trying to shift like a fast and furious wannabe, when in fact i just owned you. lol

and real double clutching is useless on anything too

and real double clutching is useless on anything too


no, i forgot the application, but there are certain transmissions, and certain cars that need it

no, i forgot the application, but there are certain transmissions, and certain cars that need it

my bad.

I meant any large trucks. Like semis/gravel trucks and probably buses. No clutch is needed. Its a waste of your left leg! :lol: heck I can't drive them with the clutch! (well...not very well)

The smoothness (or lack thereof) of the shifter in this car is one of the few *minor* issues I have with this car. I will say that practical or not, double-clutching has made my downshifts much smoother feeling. Whether it actually does anything for or to the car, I don't know. It feels like it would be easier on your drivetrain though. With the SS being a "performance" vehicle, I would expect it to have its idiosyncrisies(sp?).

Also, many of our cars don't have over 5k miles on them. We need to let them wear in..

I haven't driven a SC/SS (maybe some one in town would be willing....) but the regular SS shifted awesome on my test.

Wow I tought it was just me who thought that this car doesn't like to shift smooth. I thought part of it was that it is my first manual and that i would get better at it but really any of the people i let drive my car think the shit is to hard to drive "Normal" How do i explain it but as that the car acts misbehaved. Jumpy throttle, stiff clutch pedel, Clutch grabs instanly real late also they said second is kinda hard to grab or notchy. I'm ganna try som GM syncro-mesh and see if that helps any. But what can i say the car just likes to go.

I don't think any of you whiny people know how to drive a stick! I have no problems shifting smoothley in the car. Learn how to drive it. It's not fault of the transmission. It's fault of YOU not knowing how to effectively drive your vehicle.

Every single manual vehicle is going to respond slightly different than another. Adjust and learn to drive it.

My shifting was jerky for the first few weeks until I got used to the car. Now it's smooth as butter.

I don't think any of you whiny people know how to drive a stick! I have no problems shifting smoothley in the car. Learn how to drive it. It's not fault of the transmission. It's fault of YOU not knowing how to effectively drive your vehicle.

Every single manual vehicle is going to respond slightly different than another. Adjust and learn to drive it.

My shifting was jerky for the first few weeks until I got used to the car. Now it's smooth as butter.

Oh I forgot your the greatest person ever. you are the greastest peson to ever drive a manual car. You my friend are Great. You must have the fastest cobalt ever because you shift so smooth everytime. Everyone should stop being whiny and be more like you. You are the man..........

I don't think any of you whiny people know how to drive a stick! I have no problems shifting smoothley in the car. Learn how to drive it. It's not fault of the transmission. It's fault of YOU not knowing how to effectively drive your vehicle.

Every single manual vehicle is going to respond slightly different than another. Adjust and learn to drive it.

My shifting was jerky for the first few weeks until I got used to the car. Now it's smooth as butter.

Sounds about right

Yeah, it takes some getting used to but it gets smoother. It's like any car, you have to figure out the shift points, where the clutch lets off and syncronising your throttle and clutch. I've only had mine a few weeks, but it gets better. The only thing that pisses me off is when you stop at a light and enter a bumpy intersection in first, it's kinda hard to prevent your foot from bouncing off the clutch and I end up jerking a bit sometimes. Crappy roads where I live. Anyway, I usually try to avoid it by shifting quickly into 2nd before the onslaught of "intersection speed bumps". :D

Yeah, it takes some getting used to but it gets smoother. It's like any car, you have to figure out the shift points, where the clutch lets off and syncronising your throttle and clutch. I've only had mine a few weeks, but it gets better. The only thing that pisses me off is when you stop at a light and enter a bumpy intersection in first, it's kinda hard to prevent your foot from bouncing off the clutch and I end up jerking a bit sometimes. Crappy roads where I live. Anyway, I usually try to avoid it by shifting quickly into 2nd before the onslaught of "intersection speed bumps". :D

Sounds like me! I HATE when it does that in an intersection. I try and either take my foot away from the accelerator or like you said quickly shift it into second.

Other than that, I think the car shifts really smooth. Then again this is my first manual tranny and I'm not a passenger in the car (which can make you notice the jerkiness a little more), but for me it shifts really smoothly.

I don't think any of you whiny people know how to drive a stick! I have no problems shifting smoothley in the car. Learn how to drive it. It's not fault of the transmission. It's fault of YOU not knowing how to effectively drive your vehicle.

Every single manual vehicle is going to respond slightly different than another. Adjust and learn to drive it.

My shifting was jerky for the first few weeks until I got used to the car. Now it's smooth as butter.


For sure man.. Your right I don't know how to drive stick.. I guess all those years of driving a standard car and transport trucks make me a crappy shifter.. I guess when you drive 3000+ miles a week you still need more miles to learn how to drive standard.. Damn that's alot of driving man. I don't know if I could do it.. I mean I am already driving standard for a living, but I don't know.. I guess I just don't know how to shift.. I am just wondering. If I don't know how to shift then how do I ever get my truck moving.. It must be something magical moving that damn car and truck.. Whoa.. Magical powers...

To sum it up... STFU... I know how to drive standard and I am very efficent on it.. So don't tell me I dont know how to drive stick.. It's the car.. Sure I can get smooth shifts if I want.. But you have to put more attention into it to get a smooth shift compare to other cars.. I guess perforance drives don't how to drive stick to.. Is this what your telling me.. Cause in my post I said that they had reviews on a car and driver magazine where PROFESSIONAL RACE DRIVERS even said the car is not a smooth shifter compared to the others.. So I mean I guess your Mr. Know-It-All... And those guys are just idiots as well..

/End rant

I agree, it does take a little more concentration to make smooth shifts. JMO

Concentration and added effort may or may not be needed, but the point is you CAN shift smoothley if you so desire.

I don't care if you've been driving a stick for 50 years. That doesn't mean you are an expert with THIS car. You should know better than anyone then that almost every single manual transmission in existence will feel different than another. Just wearing the clutch down will make the same transmission feel different. You can be the best shifter in the world on transmission X, and you will still need time to adjust to transmission Y.

And just because you can get your vehicle moving doesn't mean you have mastered manual transmission driving for a particular vehicle.

I don't claim to be a master manual driver either. But I DO claim that I can shift my Cobalt SS smoothley without issue. If I can do it, ANYONE can do it and therefore the car is not at fault.

Your professional race car drivers can advise on the ease of performing a smooth shift on transmission to transmission, I don't doubt that. But that doesn't mean it CAN'T shift smoothley.

i have also noticed this car dosent like to be drove "easy". its almost a challange to drive it sensible! have any of you stalled it in first trying to ease off from a stop, and then it take a couple of cranks for it to start? also noticed my 3rd gear acts up sometimes, like the synchro is not right causing the gear to go in hard or a couple of times grind, like when your puting it in reverse. idk, all in all its ok, just drive it like yah stole it and she runs fine! :lol:

i have also noticed this car dosent like to be drove "easy". its almost a challange to drive it sensible! have any of you stalled it in first trying to ease off from a stop, and then it take a couple of cranks for it to start? also noticed my 3rd gear acts up sometimes, like the synchro is not right causing the gear to go in hard or a couple of times grind, like when your puting it in reverse. idk, all in all its ok, just drive it like yah stole it and she runs fine! :lol:

yeah it happens to people except nightcrawler his shifts are silky smooth every time.

Yeah, all I know is I think it really wants you to launch out of first, none of this take it out slow and spare the passengers whiplash BS.....not that I mind, I like taking her out fast and hard.... :D

As everyone's been saying, each vehicle drives differently. You can't just drive one and then say you can drive them all. Manual transmissions are not an exact science, you can't just read a book on how to drive one and then go out and do it perfectly. It takes practice and skill, things that must be learned from physically driving the vehicle.

As for double clutching, its foolish to critisize someone or call them a poseur for doing it. Sure, it won't make you any faster, but it does no harm either. Modern syncronized transmissions don't need to be double clutched, but by choosing to do so you will save wear on the synchros. Double clutch your car all the time, and then pull it apart when it has 200K miles and look at the synchros - they will still look brand new. So its not useless, its just not beneficiary from a performance aspect ;)

As far as the SS S/C is concerned, I think the shifter and clutch are about average compared to other cars in the class. The RSX-S probably has the best shifting trans in this class; Honda makes some of the smoothest and most precise manual transmissions, but I can't stand how light the clutch is on some models. Durability is another concern, and the RSX guys seem to have a lot of issues with the trans not going into gear soon after being new. The SRT-4 probably has the worst shifter/clutch combo in the group, I've checked one out in person, and it was like shifting an old muscle car, not a sport compact. I also checked out the SS S/C in person, and I thought the shifter and clutch were great. I easily rowed through all the cogs like it was second nature, and the clutch stiffness was spot on. The grab point did see pretty high though, as some of you have mentioned.

So the bottom line is you can drive just about any manual trans smoothly with enough practice. People who assume they can get in any vehicle and drive it perfectly the first time are just fooling themselves, every car is different. I mean look at the guys at Motor Trend, they drive all kinds of manual trans's each day, yet they all kept stalling the Porsche Carrera GT during their test.

So I have no doubt that the Cobalt SS S/C can be driven relatively smoothly with enough practice :cssNET:

Shifts fine to me, and I have never stalled it. Like some have said, yes it will take some getting used to not matter how many manual tranny's you have driven.

I find shifting 1-2, 2-3 jerky sometimes - even concentrating on shifting.

One nice thing I have found is reverse. This car goes into reverse nicer than any manual I have driven. Not once so far has there been a grind or the big clunk sound so many seem to make.

don't want to sound like a butthead, but whether or not they are jerky the cars, even my base sedan are frickin "peppy" and fun as hell to drive. about as fun as my old rx7(R.I.P.)

tio is right it is in the throttle when shifting. the more torque the harder the shift.

the torque in the throttle. and the guys driving these 18 wheelers they are totally different.
the gearbox is much bigger add that is why you dont use a clutch while shifting. when semis run they have about 1500lbs of torque and that you fuck up a clutch so fast

i dont find shifting smoothly that difficult at all although my brothers cavalier shifts a shitload easier

Every car ive had has been standard , this cobalt is the most touchy . I think its a combonation of motor mounts , and transmission lash. I can shift it smooth , but it feels like i have to abuse the clutch to do it . I'm ordering a ingalls torque dampener to see if it helps stiffen it up alittle . Everyone who has one says it helps in shifting these cars.

I have generally found the shifting to be physically difficult. There are times the shifter is very stiff getting it into gear. 3rd gear always feels like it is engaging rough. It seemed like I migth have had a ligth grind shifting into ti today in fact. My other GMs have all shifted far easier than this. (Sunfire and Fieros) As far as shifting smoothly, I can certinaly do it.. but ti seems difficutlt o do at low RPMs withotu feeling like I am using the clutch excessively. I prefer to slip my clutch as little as possible while still shifting smoothly. The pedal height at the friction point seems a tad hight o me also.