http://www.gminsidenews.com/eng-ca1.gif

Engine: Ecotec 2.0L SC (LSJ)
Type: 2.0L supercharged/intercooled inline 4-cylinder
Displacement (cu in / cc): 122 / 1998
Bore & stroke (in / mm): 3.39 x 3.39 / 86 x 86
Block material: cast aluminum with cast iron cylinder liners
Cylinder head material: cast aluminum
Valvetrain: chain-driven dual overhead camshafts with roller followers, 4 valves per cylinder, dual rotating balance shafts
Ignition system: coil-on-plug coil-on-plug
Fuel delivery: sequential fuel injection
Compression ratio: 9.5:1
Horsepower (hp / kw @ rpm): 205 / 153 @ 5600
Torque (lb-ft / Nm @ rpm): 200 / 271 @ 4400
Recommended fuel: 91 octane unleaded
Maximum engine speed (rpm): 6450 fuel cutoff
Emissions controls: 3-way catalyst (Tier 2 LEV 2 Bin 8 )
Estimated fuel economy(mpg city / hwy / combined): TBD

i thought the compression was at 8.something:1 atleast thats what i've read about it. sure u didnt get the compression number wrong?

thats straight from GM i didnt edit it at all just copy and paste

http://www.csupomona.edu/~kchamburger/SEMA/20LSC.jpg

http://www.csupomona.edu/~kchamburger/SEMA/20LSC2.jpg

yeah there ya go

I can't wait to drive one! Anyone have an estimated 1/4 mile time?

SCC only pulled a 15.3 with the ION Redline, but they had quite a few problems with their preproduction model, mostly a bad tack. Hopefully all these get fixed for the Cobalt and it can run mid to high 14's at least.

So what do u guys think about swapping the M62 for a M90.. Im sure it would bring an extra 20hp, and with a new cam, chip/pcm, intake&exhaust.. we could be looking at 250HP IMHO

So what do u guys think about swapping the M62 for a M90.. Im sure it would bring an extra 20hp, and with a new cam, chip/pcm, intake&exhaust.. we could be looking at 250HP IMHO

I doubt that would work well, the m90 is a very inefficient supercharger, it already pulls quite a bit of hp from the 3800 engine, im not sure the 2.0 can handle it

yeah i think it would rob more then its worth

i think jeffie is right

I'm waiting for someone to turbo it, in addition to the s/c

that would be sweet, put a big ass turbo on it, the blower would make up for lag and give the bottom end/midrange, with the turbo coming in on top.

mmmmm.... twin-charging. Very cool. :bow:

It would never happen, but wouldn't it OWN ALL if GM made an aftermarket twin-charging sysem?

that would be a treat hehe

I'm curious to learn more about their intercooling setup. Whether it's more efficient or not, than a bar and fin, it seems like an odd arrangement. If you up the boost, or alter the induction setup, how can you modify the intercooling to keep up? Perhaps I read it wrong.

Anyway, in my opinion, since it's been done to the Ecotec, turboing seems the best route to take. I mean, they managed over 1,000hp out of a 2.0 four cyl. Dayam. I'm quite sure the internals aren't rated to support this much stock, nor are many other components..but I read in an article that GM Performance Parts plans to produce and sell all the necessary components to turn the engine into a racing machine.

If it is, indeed, at a 205hp and 200 torque rate..with the setup, LSD and weight..I'd assume somewhere around 14.7-14.9 in the quarter. The WRX is AWD with 227hp, so I sincerely doubt we'll be seeing their numbers..and even though the SRT-4 is comparible with a 2.4L inline 4, turbo and LSD (FWD), they were making a claimed 215-220 (2003 model), but most I saw were dynoing around 215-222 to the WHEELS. With the 2004 model, having stage I preinstalled, the numbers jumped to around 230hp and 250 torque.

Given all that, I steel feel confident the Cobalt SS will perform very well for its power and drivetrain setup and with the weight ratio of the car. It has an enormous amount of potential with the Ecotec engine. Like I said in another post, perhaps not with the M62 setup...but who knows. I think the aftermarket will pick up quite nicely for this car, considering GM plans on putting it in many of their vehicles, worldwide.

another thing you have to look at with the 'rex, as much as I love them, is that they're heavier than the cobalt should be, and while the awd gives good launches and 60' times, it sucks a lot of top end out of the car, and drivetrain loss is disgusting.

as for the engine's potential, GM has it up to 1200, not 1000 hp.

I like my idea of turbosuper charging better, assuming it will be effecient for the LSJ, but I think that most people will go the rout of the supra - remove the s/c and install a good turbo, just likt supra owners remove the twin turbo setup for a single turbo setup(lag can actually be a good thing on a 1/4 track, less traction issues)

I did say over 1,000hp. =) I thought it was 1,100..but, hey...1,200 is cool with me too!

I agree with you silver.... there will be a certain point (prolly around the 300hp range) where you will NEED to change the supercharger out to a bigger one, a centifugal or a turbo setup in order to get more out of the engines potential. How much the Ecotec can stand without too much internal mods I don't know, but I imagine we will find out when the car is out on the market.

2.0L ECOTEC Supercharged Engine
The all-aluminum dual overhead cam, 2.0L ECOTEC Supercharged four-cylinder engine is built off the strengths of the original, naturally aspirated 2.2L ECOTEC engine.
The 2.0L Supercharged engine has a four-valve cylinder head, maintenance-free chain-driven camshafts, counter-rotating balance shafts and an integrated oil cooler.
The Eaton M62 supercharger spins at a low rpm, which improves durability and creates less noise while allowing for plenty of top-end power. Power delivery of the supercharged engine is instantaneous. Maximum boost of the supercharger is 12 psi.
Also included on this engine:
A direct-mount oil cooler.
Oil jets for piston cooling.
Heavy-duty pistons.
Strong connecting rods.
Forged-steel crankshaft.
Large oil sump.
Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved durability.
A high-strength aluminum cylinder head.

2.0L ECOTEC Supercharged Engine
The all-aluminum dual overhead cam, 2.0L ECOTEC Supercharged four-cylinder engine is built off the strengths of the original, naturally aspirated 2.2L ECOTEC engine.
The 2.0L Supercharged engine has a four-valve cylinder head, maintenance-free chain-driven camshafts, counter-rotating balance shafts and an integrated oil cooler.
The Eaton M62 supercharger spins at a low rpm, which improves durability and creates less noise while allowing for plenty of top-end power. Power delivery of the supercharged engine is instantaneous. Maximum boost of the supercharger is 12 psi.
Also included on this engine:
A direct-mount oil cooler.
Oil jets for piston cooling.
Heavy-duty pistons.
Strong connecting rods.
Forged-steel crankshaft.
Large oil sump.
Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved durability.
A high-strength aluminum cylinder head.

Good to know. Thanks Jonel. :) Sounds like GM is doing this baby right. Can't wait to see these things roll off the showroom floor.

In reference to SilverSCSS's post above (which I didn't fully read before but is informative and well articulated, kudos), I am also wondering a lot about the intercooler setup. All I've read so far is that it's an air-to-water setup, which IIRC is advantageous over an air-to-air setup. I'm wondering exactly how much cooling the intercooler does, and more importantly, how much it can be upgraded to make more power. I know changing to a bigger, more efficient intercooler in some cars can really give a power boost, I hope the same will be true of the Cobalt.

i highly doubt it will be upgradedable as in how its integrated in to the manifold design. they should have went turbo. lol

i highly doubt it will be upgradedable as in how its integrated in to the manifold design. they should have went turbo. lol

I don't think the intercooler being built and integrated the way it is had anything to do with it being Supercharged. I think they wanted something small and efficient, vs. a bigger FMIC setup. For their application, I think it was the smart route to go. Probably cheaper too, due to less piping and such. Also..with the m62 draped across the front, as it is, there might not have been the space for it.

Either way...my opinion towards roots blowers has changed somewhat in the past week or two. I've been getting really interested in them. Turbos are EVERYWHERE now...and many attribute that to their claimed superiority over roots blower. But..I like to be different..and I like the idea of on demand (no lag) setups. I know people will argue "If you do a turbo system right, there will be no lag..." that may be true to a point...but, I think I'm going to toy with S/C's first. And like I posted in another thread...I might consider swapping the m62 for an m45..port out the housing, put the m62 internals in (which would allow for the m62 power in a smaller housing, freeing up engine bay space)...and then doing something like a Megasquirt standalone setup, FMIC, water/methanol injection and so on. Oh..and did I mention the m45 would be clutched? Bwahaha.

Either way you look at it..the baby has potential. That's what I like. :)

i highly doubt it will be upgradedable as in how its integrated in to the manifold design. they should have went turbo. lol

I don't think the intercooler being built and integrated the way it is had anything to do with it being Supercharged. I think they wanted something small and efficient, vs. a bigger FMIC setup.

Good info, I didn't know that. Since they aren't using a front-mounted IC, where is it? I had a quick look at the 2.0L S/C in a Redline, but I didn't notice the intercooler.

Power delivery of the supercharged engine is instantaneous. Maximum boost of the supercharger is 12 psi.
.


As it is set up on the car yes. I heard that GM is running tests on the m62 with boosts as high as 20 psi without problems.

I read in an article (on here somewhere I think) that the ECU is opening the bypass valve at that pressure because they had not tested how the engine can handle it at highter rates.

i highly doubt it will be upgradedable as in how its integrated in to the manifold design. they should have went turbo. lol

I don't think the intercooler being built and integrated the way it is had anything to do with it being Supercharged. I think they wanted something small and efficient, vs. a bigger FMIC setup.

Good info, I didn't know that. Since they aren't using a front-mounted IC, where is it? I had a quick look at the 2.0L S/C in a Redline, but I didn't notice the intercooler.

The RL has an intercooler. I've heard it's got a small core so in order to get more boost out of the S/C safely, you'll probably have to upgrade the IC as well.

And how would you go about that? It's not an FMIC, as I've read. It's mounted on the Intake Manifold, or something. Air to Water..or Water to Air...vs. Air to Air (Bar/fin)

yeah it will be interesting to see if they have an intercooler upgrade.

if anyone can find out how to upgrade it, i'd like to know, and FYI it is a laminova air-to-water setup, and i'm sure they have different cores that would fit inside.

i''m under the impression as is that the intercooler cannot either 1)dissipate much more heat than is needed in stock form, or 2)cannot flow too much air without creating heat from the friction thereby decreasing it's effectiveness. who knows, if anyone is near vegas and going to SEMA it would sure be nice to know if they upgraded the intercooler on the 270 hp cobalt.

all i know is once i'm at 350 to the wheels, i will be more than satisfied with my car.

I have to assume this forum is just a convergence of Saturn forums and J-body forums, but for those who don't know me here is a quick background:
I have been boosting Saturn's with centrifugal superchargers for over 5 years now and in that time I have also tuned a number of vehicles with Eaton blowers including one miata with a Twin Screw blower. Over the last year I have been employed by a MAJOR UAV company to work on the development of an engine program for a heavy fuel vehicle (UAV). The engine we're testing around is a 2-stroke diesel that's twincharged, but beyond that most if not all of the aspects of how the boost is operated can be applied to the LSJ motor.

With the 2-stroke it breathes through a T40E Turbo with a 2 stroke or RX7 exhaust housing and .81 A/R compressor housing. The compressed air is then sent through an intercooler and on to a 3rd Generation M62 Eaton supercharger. Through testing we have reconfigured the engine both with and without the intercooler and found the general limits of both HOT and COLD charge air.

So what's my point?
I have a lot of first hand experience with all of the key components of the LSJ motor and have done a lot of testing under VERY extreme conditions to validate hundreds of hours of engine dyno time with both the 2-stroke engine and my own L61 testing. Anyone who lives in southern California knows that it's been REAL cold lately and here in BFE it's been in the teens to low 40's for a month. Engine dynos and especially ones with props attached to the engine tend to be left outside so I have literally been working outside for a good 4 months straight. Since October I have seen it go from 80 F and sunburn to lucky if it cracks 32 F by afternoon.

So while I can’t go posting details about the heavy fuel engine, I can and do carry a lot of what we have found from dyno testing over to the performance of the LSJ. There are relations in the supercharger since it’s the same only that the LSJ version is more efficient in many ways being multiple generations newer including an internal bypass valve, additionally the benefits of intercooling both before the S/C in Twincharged applications and after the S/C in both cases can be taken into account.
I have personally tested with data acq the Laminova heat exchangers, PWR’s liquid intercoolers, and Spearco core models both air-to-air and liquid to air. To make it simple here is how each perform from one end of the spectrum to the other
A. Non-Intercooled
B. Air-to-air Intercooled
C. Bar and Plate liquid-to-air Intercooled (Spearco core)
D. Tube and Fin liquid-to-air Intercooled (PWR core)
E. Laminova technology liquid-to-air Intercooler
Where results are really seen to be the most impressive is under the conditions of heat-soak. With air-to-air intercoolers once it’s heat soaked not only do you have the expected loss of pressure across the intercooler, but also the charge temperatures are equal to that of a totally non-intercooled heat-soaked configuration. With any of the liquid-to-air intercoolers even with zero liquid flow charge temperatures are 40-50 degrees colder than non-intercooled. When you are running a liquid intercooler and the system is operating to its full potential you can expect to see at least 100 degree drop in charge temperatures and much more the hotter the air entering the intercooler is.
I have seen charge air temps over 300 degrees F out of a turbo and less than 100 after the S/C entering the cylinders with liquid-to-air intercoolers. The key advantage of one liquid-to-air over another is the pressure loss across the unit. Bar and Plate liquid-to-air intercoolers are the worst with as much as 4 psi of pressure loss at 20psi and second are Tube and Fin with 2 psi at 20 psi, both of which cool the same. Amazingly the Laminova design only sees about 1.5 psi drop across the intercooler and cools the charge air the best too. The only disadvantage of the Laminova design is that it’s more expensive to build because of its very unique extruded form.
I suspect that the only possible upgrade to the current IC in the LSJ would be to add A/C refrigerant to the cores in addition to water. Though an easy quick upgrade would be to add Red Line Water Wetter to the IC coolant system, but make sure it is done so in the correct ratio for your climate. If you can get away with 15-20% coolant to water and add water wetter to that it would have measurable performance results.

So the intercooler currently in used with the LSJ is the most efficient form? I'd imagine this bodes well for the mod-ability of the engine... in your opinion what is the weakest point of the system which will prevent further power gains?

It's great to have you on this site, I've read ******************, specifically your post about headers, and I (and probably alot of others here) am very interested in your product. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience here.

hmmm nitrious intercooler setup looks like that would work, i've been thinking about that for a while, and finaly decide on posting it. so add nitrous intercooler sprayer kit to the cores so it cools the cores it should do a pretty good job.

It's probably not a good idea to make an attempt at cooling the water at the radiator/heat exchanger more than it already is.

Using a N20 jet on an air-to-air intercooler results in the worst-case situation of freezing the aluminum and producing a cooler more dense charge through effective intercooling.

Using a N20 jet on a liquid-to-air intercooler results in the worst case situation of freezing the radiator, transferring the majority of that temperature to the EXTREMELY thermally conductive coolant and possibly rupturing the system or at least restricting flow a with crystal slurry.

Water is exponentially more thermally conductive than air is, which is why it's used as the primary cooling agent in most internal combustion engines. Using the N20 system would be a total waste of time and may lead to a bigger problem when you break something.

Like I said the best bet would be to find the optimum solution of distilled water / antifreeze and RedLine Water Wetter together. You’ll see benefits in cool down times and lower maximum charge temps too.

I may have suggested N20 before on RL forums (I said it "may" work) but after further testing with liquid intercooling and dissipation of the heat from the radiator I don't see any positive benefit to using it without bringing up bigger problems.

It's probably not a good idea to make an attempt at cooling the water at the radiator/heat exchanger more than it already is.

Using a N20 jet on an air-to-air intercooler results in the worst-case situation of freezing the aluminum and producing a cooler more dense charge through effective intercooling.

Using a N20 jet on a liquid-to-air intercooler results in the worst case situation of freezing the radiator, transferring the majority of that temperature to the EXTREMELY thermally conductive coolant and possibly rupturing the system or at least restricting flow a with crystal slurry.

Water is exponentially more thermally conductive than air is, which is why it's used as the primary cooling agent in most internal combustion engines. Using the N20 system would be a total waste of time and may lead to a bigger problem when you break something.

Like I said the best bet would be to find the optimum solution of distilled water / antifreeze and RedLine Water Wetter together. You’ll see benefits in cool down times and lower maximum charge temps too.

I may have suggested N20 before on RL forums (I said it "may" work) but after further testing with liquid intercooling and dissipation of the heat from the radiator I don't see any positive benefit to using it without bringing up bigger problems.

Thanks for all your insight and first hand experience(s). I know it'll be useful once people start tuning their Cobalts. Oh..and welcome to the board. :beer:

yeah but wouldnt plumbing the n20 after the (what it should be considered as an aftercooler) supercharger between the aftercooler and the head itself be a better idea? doesnt the head contain sodium filled valves? would this pose a problem?

It's probably not a good idea to make an attempt at cooling the water at the radiator/heat exchanger more than it already is.

Using a N20 jet on an air-to-air intercooler results in the worst-case situation of freezing the aluminum and producing a cooler more dense charge through effective intercooling.

Using a N20 jet on a liquid-to-air intercooler results in the worst case situation of freezing the radiator, transferring the majority of that temperature to the EXTREMELY thermally conductive coolant and possibly rupturing the system or at least restricting flow a with crystal slurry.

Water is exponentially more thermally conductive than air is, which is why it's used as the primary cooling agent in most internal combustion engines. Using the N20 system would be a total waste of time and may lead to a bigger problem when you break something.

Like I said the best bet would be to find the optimum solution of distilled water / antifreeze and RedLine Water Wetter together. You’ll see benefits in cool down times and lower maximum charge temps too.

I may have suggested N20 before on RL forums (I said it "may" work) but after further testing with liquid intercooling and dissipation of the heat from the radiator I don't see any positive benefit to using it without bringing up bigger problems.


Hmmm. This is disappointing.

I was planning on hooking up a nitrous system to my RL eventually.

Unless what Dman said would work and hooking it up after the S/C.

did threads ever go past 2 pages back then?

Holy zombie thread! Probably not, not a lot of BS thrown around, just straight stuff.