Twin Screw Update [Archive] - Cobalt SS Network

R&C_rallySS

03-11-2007, 09:39 PM

If the SC takes less to turn, you will be able to get more hp with no more strain on the pistons.

Thats great news. However, its bad news to check on this thread when you see it in the top 10 threads. Then when you go directly to the last page you hope to find a dyno sheet and a starting price for a group buy on the complete kit to swap your super charger. :cussing: Would love to see gains of 40+ whp just from a swap! :guns: Anyone estimating on what kind of gains we will see? Will the GM stage kits work with it? I guess only time will tell...

Not without blow a head gasket or lossing a piston. Cometic head gasket, Eagle Head studs, and forged pistons should fix that though. Possibly a modified fuel system, but that is yet to be determined.

I thank your right however the stock gasket should be fine up to 400hp. Anyways from what I have read time and time again the stock gasket it not the problem. Its the studs. So a forged bottom end, and eagle head studs should do the trick. I heard the cometic head gasket is the same thing as the stock gm gasket. Correct me if I'm wrong...

1gmfanatik

03-12-2007, 12:52 AM

XenSS06

03-12-2007, 01:30 AM

I agree. We need to wait and see for sure, but the pistons are only rated to 400 crank HP. Granted the twin screw will free up quite a bit of power which might give us a little more room to play. I can't wait to find out.

Stock pistons are good till 400HP at the crank so like 360ish to the wheel?
what about valve springs , rods , and so on .
where are you getting your info from im not calling bullshit or calling you a lier just interested where i can find the facts?

JeRM82

03-12-2007, 04:52 PM

Actually, I'm seeing that the stock head gaskets are blowing right around 300, but it could also be the head studs causing the issue. I know 300 seems to be the magic number lately for the blown head gaskets though..

I'm just askin because I haven't seen anyone. Is anyone making over 300WHP? I've seen a couple people CLOSE....the closest is 290 something....is it the turbo conversion people that are blowing the head gaskets? Just wondering man....

Blown 4-banger

03-12-2007, 05:00 PM

Geez this is taking forever! At this rate, me and George will be don't with my W75AX swap before tag even fires the car up! :rolleyes:

ItalianJoe1

03-12-2007, 05:06 PM

Whats a W75AX??
I know it a blower, but what size?? Off of what??

Scythe_Snake

03-12-2007, 06:11 PM

Whats a W75AX??
I know it a blower, but what size?? Off of what??

Its a whipple supercharger. Very powerful.

PolishPauL

03-12-2007, 06:12 PM

Whats a W75AX??
I know it a blower, but what size?? Off of what??

I think its the same thing as this but its forged so it can spin faster. Blown, how did you find one? Arent they not in production anymore?

Blown 4-banger

03-12-2007, 06:57 PM

They are no longer in production anymore, you just have to look, and find a used one.

CTCOBALTSSS

03-12-2007, 07:21 PM

Geez this is taking forever! At this rate, me and George will be don't with my W75AX swap before tag even fires the car up! :rolleyes:

Dude that is an awsome blower.

I found some comparison specs on whipple blowers. The W75AX stacks up nicely.

Look at the Liters to psi ratio for all the blowers. Sweet.

http://www.bishopsales.com/whipple_superchargers_supercharger.html

Scythe_Snake

03-12-2007, 07:30 PM

Geez this is taking forever! At this rate, me and George will be don't with my W75AX swap before tag even fires the car up! :rolleyes:

I think its the same thing as this but its forged so it can spin faster. Blown, how did you find one? Arent they not in production anymore?

Hmm, whipple is just sexalicious! But if the blowers are basically the same, only one is forged, couldn't the Lysolm (didn't spell it right) just be forged or something to produce the same power? If not, I'm interested in that Whipple one as well. Keep us posted on it Blow 4 Banger!!

Dude that is an awsome blower.

I found some comparison specs on whipple blowers. The W75AX stacks up nicely.

Look at the Liters to psi ratio for all the blowers. Sweet.

http://www.bishopsales.com/whipple_superchargers_supercharger.html

It is an awesome blower. Mmmmm, Whipple whine.....*drool*

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-13-2007, 01:05 AM

Stock pistons are good till 400HP at the crank so like 360ish to the wheel?
what about valve springs , rods , and so on .
where are you getting your info from im not calling bullshit or calling you a lier just interested where i can find the facts?

A tech at my dealership works on a 1,100 hp drag Cobalt and said he got that info from Bate's Engineering. He said the cams are good for 600hp, pistons and rods ~400. Can't remember on the crank or sleeves. My numbers could be off a little. It was over a year ago I discussed it with him.

Not sure on valve springs. He already installed the Bate's Titanium spring set. He is currently running a 2.5 pulley, custom header (he made himself), through muffler (not sure which one) and a 100 shot of nitrous. Said he dynoed 343. I would think that he also upgraded the head gasket and head studs when he swapped cams. He took them back out be cause the cam sensor was off and it was giving him a CEL.

XenSS06

03-13-2007, 02:26 AM

A tech at my dealership works on a 1,100 hp drag Cobalt and said he got that info from Bate's Engineering. He said the cams are good for 600hp, pistons and rods ~400. Can't remember on the crank or sleeves. My numbers could be off a little. It was over a year ago I discussed it with him.

Not sure on valve springs. He already installed the Bate's Titanium spring set. He is currently running a 2.5 pulley, custom header (he made himself), through muffler (not sure which one) and a 100 shot of nitrous. Said he dynoed 343. I would think that he also upgraded the head gasket and head studs when he swapped cams. He took them back out be cause the cam sensor was off and it was giving him a CEL.

Thanks for the good info:twothumbs

AjSS

03-13-2007, 02:36 AM

Any word on an estimated price? Hopefully less than $3000.

tREBs

03-13-2007, 03:20 AM

Any word on an estimated price? Hopefully less than $3000.

x2! im definatly hoping its not outta my price range! :thumbsdow

Omega_5

03-13-2007, 03:34 AM

...hey... guys at TAG...
What kind of CNC is that?

From what I can tell in the picture, it looks like a HAAS. Kinna like the one I learned how to code on... :)

zfactor

03-13-2007, 04:17 AM

lol still waiting....

Gory

03-13-2007, 04:25 AM

crank is good to 700easy Cilinder sleves will break at 650-700

memphisr24

03-13-2007, 04:52 AM

Whatever happened to the guy that was doing the twin turbo setup???? VictoryRedss06 i think was his name...i'm not sure though

Jumpin Fool

03-13-2007, 06:12 AM

It sure would have been nice of TAG to let their first five know that they had started a new thread with new pics. Let's see if it's a diversionary tactic or if they're actually going to come up with something. I'm not getting excited until I see word that it's actually on the car and testing. You guys that are blowing over seeing some pics of the thing in place have issues. Can you say "American Pie"?

yellowcobaltss05

03-13-2007, 11:35 AM

the price should be between 2500-3000 for the whole kit and its complete bolt on ;)

rickyw

03-13-2007, 12:04 PM

that gives me some saving for next summer:-D when the warranty is expired anyways

chevysalesman614

03-13-2007, 12:13 PM

Intake's going to be in the stock location, so if you have an injen, AEM or what ever intake, it will simply bolt up.

Yea guys no artuing in this thread, just things related to the Twin Screw.

Should be done by the end of this month.

now i wish i hadn't seen this thread. it's just a teaser until the real thing comes out. like the monday night football halo 3 commercial. lol
keep up the good work guys. it's nice to see that we finally have some real aftermarket support for those of us who got the ss for the fact that it has a supercharger not a turbo:cssNET:

that gives me some saving for next summer:-D when the warranty is expired anyways

x2 by next season mine will be too:lol:

The Sunburst Kid

03-13-2007, 12:35 PM

Most people seem to have different opinions on what the LSJ and various components can handle. Here is a link:

http://www.year2032.com/ecotec.htm

Take it for what it is worth but it does seem to come from the horses mouth so to speak. Now this may have been pre-production prior to the finished lsj but it should give some sort of real idea as to what our tolerances are.

Now so that this post isnt completely off topic: Twin Screw. :lol:

NoRemorse

03-13-2007, 08:40 PM

ItalianJoe1

03-13-2007, 08:43 PM

Not really applicaple to the LSJ.. that was based off of an L61

Similar application though. The bottom end components are much stronger in our engine, which is the first thing they had to address, so it kinda skews real world meaning. Most people are not going for 500+ hp on the street. The practical limit seems to be 350-400.

XenSS06

03-13-2007, 08:49 PM

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-13-2007, 10:18 PM

Does Bate's have a sight we can research on?

Does anyone have a source for the info we are all looking for so we can get the facts?

Not that I know of, but I'll ask the next time I see the tech. It would be nice to see what the true tested limts of the car are.

06blackg85ss

03-13-2007, 10:20 PM

will be doing that soon hopefully...

AlphaJaguar5

03-14-2007, 03:17 AM

Jumpin Fool

03-14-2007, 05:28 AM

Wow! That tech is an idiot...
Here we go again. Back statements up with published facts or keep opinions to yourself. I've had enough of chasing this damn thread around the forum because people can't just keep their mouths shut and let TAG have the thread. :thumbsdow

NoRemorse

03-14-2007, 07:17 AM

Here we go again. Back statements up with published facts or keep opinions to yourself. I've had enough of chasing this damn thread around the forum because people can't just keep their mouths shut and let TAG have the thread. :thumbsdow

The post alpha was referencing didn't have any published fact either, just hearsay, so relax there killer.

Jumpin Fool

03-14-2007, 08:41 AM

The post alpha was referencing didn't have any published fact either, just hearsay, so relax there killer.
If you read it again you'll find I wasn't defending anyone or claiming any other post was more factual than others. Basically what I was trying to say, in the nicest way possible is, if you don't have facts or you're not TAG posting progress then shut the hell up and stay off the thread. I'm tired of sifting through the bullshit opinions, personal insults, and people posting the same damn questions that have been answered 50 times before to find out in the end that nothing productive has been posted on a thread that is supposed to be about TAG producing a product. Opinions should be stated as such and posted elsewhere if they have nothing to do directly with the Twinscrew swap.

I guess after 12+yrs in the military(and counting) I don't have the tolerance for garbage that some of you have. If any of you take this personally then go cry in the corner. If you're adult about this then you'll understand what I'm trying to say.

black06ss

03-14-2007, 09:15 AM

^^^^exactly those of us who have money on this are having to be very patient and thinking new progress will be here when there is nothing but bs is getting old fast.
on a side note it looks like the first 3 on this are all military haha.

victory_red_SS

03-14-2007, 10:16 AM

Whatever happened to the guy that was doing the twin turbo setup???? VictoryRedss06 i think was his name...i'm not sure though
victory_red_SS;)
I am still here. My car is currently being converted to rwd before we can put the engine in and finish the turbo piping.:)

yellowcobaltss05

03-14-2007, 10:43 AM

damn rwd!?!?!?! You are going to have one insane cobalt man ;)

2K5SS/SC?

03-14-2007, 11:32 AM

BoomInIt

03-14-2007, 10:20 PM

Jumpin Fool

03-15-2007, 02:43 AM

Someone at TAG please give another update. The thread is starting to shift again to a chating session. Shifting through 20+ damn pages for nothing is not cool, and like others have said will not be tolerated!
I personally spoke with Mel last night on the phone and he gave me a breakdown of what was going on, what had happened with Jim and what he was trying to make happen for all of us that have a deposit. Basically what he told me was that they have no definate answers for HP or final price and they ran into the unexpected problem of having to fabricate another snout because the one on the Lysholm is too long. They're working out the issues and everything is in the shop. After my conversation with him I feel more confident now that he is doing everything he can to get this out to us. He seems very customer service oriented and is all about making us happy with the final product. He told me that he wants to be sure that everything is right before he sends anything out.

AMG_Passion

03-15-2007, 03:32 AM

Ummm, they better not be "fabricating" a snout. That better just be machining the old one slightly.

LSJ PUP

03-15-2007, 10:55 AM

I personally spoke with Mel last night on the phone and he gave me a breakdown of what was going on, what had happened with Jim and what he was trying to make happen for all of us that have a deposit. Basically what he told me was that they have no definate answers for HP or final price and they ran into the unexpected problem of having to fabricate another snout because the one on the Lysholm is too long. They're working out the issues and everything is in the shop. After my conversation with him I feel more confident now that he is doing everything he can to get this out to us. He seems very customer service oriented and is all about making us happy with the final product. He told me that he wants to be sure that everything is right before he sends anything out.

That does seem like a pretty big problem. lol

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-16-2007, 01:29 AM

Ummm, they better not be "fabricating" a snout. That better just be machining the old one slightly.

If you are talking about the snout on the M62 it's cast as one piece with the casing. The Lysholm does not have a snout, therefore they have to fab their own. From that post I would assume that they are trying to make it mate up with the stock intake piping.

CHARGDSS

03-16-2007, 01:32 AM

well if you look at the pic on the first page there is definitely a snout on the lysholm.

2K5SS/SC?

03-16-2007, 01:51 AM

The snout on the Lysholm is an ordered one. They need one that is between sizes, thus they are trying to make one. :twothumbs

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-16-2007, 01:57 AM

The drive snout or the inlet? Lysholm sells the drives in 1" intervals.

Perhaps they are trying to compromise between the mounting holes and access to the oil filter.

AMG_Passion

03-16-2007, 01:58 AM

The snout on a Lysholm is easily machined using a mill, lots of cutting fluid, and going very slowly. Trust me, it was neccsary to machine a snout of the Lysholm that bolts into the thunderbird supercoupe.

2K5SS/SC?

03-16-2007, 02:12 AM

The drive snout or the inlet? Lysholm sells the drives in 1" intervals.

Perhaps they are trying to compromise between the mounting holes and access to the oil filter.

The drive snout I believe. I think they need one between the 1" intervals available for proper pulley alignment from what I can tell.

1BADSS/SC

03-16-2007, 02:16 AM

I just want to see a vid :eek: :eek: :eek:

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-16-2007, 03:07 AM

From my calculations, there is only one snout that Lysholm makes that will allow for proper pulley alignment without interfering with the mounting holes. But it then makes the supercharger interfere with the boost bypass port. Hence the reason for a new endplate. Extending the boost bypass port too far interferes with the oil filter canister. It's a bag of worms anyway you look at it. That is why I never finished the project like I wanted to...well that and lack of time and effort to put my nose to the grindstone.

07SSCharged248

03-18-2007, 01:29 PM

Updates...

CleanNFun

03-18-2007, 01:32 PM

I concur, has been too long :). Im in a debate about getting a mazdaspeed 3, or upgrading to the cobalt ss, this will help my decision :)

Ljavy17

03-18-2007, 03:23 PM

or you can get a ss.sc with my mods, thall be enough. believe me.

djt81185

03-18-2007, 03:44 PM

or you can get a ss.sc with my mods, thall be enough. believe me.

No...trusst me...its definately not enough...I would know...ive had ur setup on my for car the past yr

THIS is enough:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/files/996955_vlyr7/Photo-0005.jpg

victory_red_SS

03-18-2007, 05:03 PM

No...trusst me...its definately not enough...I would know...ive had ur setup on my for car the past yr

THIS is enough

But what happens a year from now? Will it still be enough?;):lol:

2K5SS/SC?

03-18-2007, 09:57 PM

Bump for an update! I just upgraded to a 2.6 and tuned it today, and it still isn't enough. I want some more power soon!

NoRemorse

03-18-2007, 10:04 PM

No...trusst me...its definately not enough...I would know...ive had ur setup on my for car the past yr

THIS is enough:

HOLY FUCK DAN!! that thing looks HUGE when it is shown next to the blower! Now I see why it's not gonna fit back there!!!

06blackg85ss

03-18-2007, 10:27 PM

thats a big ol turbo right there man

Mase

03-18-2007, 11:46 PM

We are going to make the snout:

1. For exact alignment (better fit over intake manifold, fitment to endplate and intake)
2. So we can install our modular pulley to, pullies will range from 3.25" to 2.62" <- 2900psi:lol:
3. It's cheaper for us to make it than order them.

Currently the snouts are being machined, I'll see if I can snap some pics 2moro.

USMCFieldMP

03-19-2007, 12:46 AM

2. So we can install our modular pulley to, pullies will range from 3.25" to 2.62" <- 2900psi:lol:

Do you mean 29psi?

XenSS06

03-19-2007, 12:46 AM

stryder

03-19-2007, 09:10 AM

dang its about time there was a update, so i guess mase is our goto guy for this?

0redline6

03-19-2007, 10:53 AM

dang its about time there was a update, so i guess mase is our goto guy for this?

probly seeing as its his redline that is the guinea pig fo this... lucky basturd:cussing: ;) lol

BlackSS/SC

03-19-2007, 03:48 PM

Can't wait for updates! 29 PSI that's gonna be SICK!!!!

USMCFieldMP

03-19-2007, 09:18 PM

Can't wait for updates! 29 PSI that's gonna be SICK!!!!

A MUCH more EFFICIENT 29 PSI as well! Hell, I bet 10psi on this thing would be like 17 on the M62! Can't wait to see the DYNO results!

sneaky

03-19-2007, 09:35 PM

Fuel... I'm assuming 60 lbers will be maxed or close to max on 15-17 psi.

patathSS

03-19-2007, 09:44 PM

No...trusst me...its definately not enough...I would know...ive had ur setup on my for car the past yr

THIS is enough:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/files/996955_vlyr7/Photo-0005.jpg

Best text message I have ever received!!! :lol:

Blown 4-banger

03-20-2007, 03:16 AM

Fuel... I'm assuming 60 lbers will be maxed or close to max on 15-17 psi.

Return fuel line & fuel pressure regulator with solve that problem. Thats what I'm doing for my twin screw.

NoRemorse

03-20-2007, 07:24 AM

Fuel... I'm assuming 60 lbers will be maxed or close to max on 15-17 psi.

Why do you think that? I can reach near 21psi with my 2.5" and only see low 70% IDC.

06blackg85ss

03-20-2007, 08:31 AM

yeah I'm running 21 psi and 82% IDC (I run pretty rich for safety's sake)

gilbert

03-22-2007, 08:33 PM

any updates ?

2K5SS/SC?

03-22-2007, 10:40 PM

Bump ror updates! Getting a little antsy, and starting to ponder other options soon....

spaz

03-22-2007, 11:21 PM

I don't think the computer can handle anything more than 60#rs It would be impossible to get it to Idle properly.

R&C_rallySS

03-23-2007, 03:53 PM

Can't wait for updates! 29 PSI that's gonna be SICK!!!!

Yea, better get forged lower end and main studs, head studs...29 psi is alot on a motor IMO.

intense_SS

03-23-2007, 03:56 PM

so about how much would it cost for this swap anywayz?? i am very interested and 29 psi i can get used too lol!! i am at 21 right now but i am sure 29 will be intense!!!!!!

intense_SS

03-23-2007, 03:56 PM

so about how much would it cost for this swap anywayz?? i am very interested and 29 psi i can get used too lol!! i am at 21 right now but i am sure 29 will be intense!!!!!!

06blackg85ss

03-23-2007, 03:56 PM

Nope are Fuel Lines are already running a high 70PSI of pressure and the Siemens DEKA 60# can flow enough for 120HP each....thats 480HP more then enought.

Wierd?!? Am running 51% IDC with my rich Tune running between 11-12AFR with my 60# @19PSI...how rich are you running Paul?

@11.4-11.8 I still need to work on my Pe curve a bit cause I get a dip to like 10.4 @5800 rpm then it comes back up.... just haven't had the time.. will get it done this weekend though

chevysalesman614

03-23-2007, 07:14 PM

i thought this was supposed to be done in early march?

gilbert

03-23-2007, 07:38 PM

i thought this was supposed to be done in early march?
x.2.

stryder

03-23-2007, 08:04 PM

gilbert

03-23-2007, 08:33 PM

i guess the turbo swap was just piping, but the supercharger swap has to be machined funny how the easier swap takes the longest to R&D. I wouldn't be suprised to see the price jump to 3500 because of the machining. Would someone at TAG update us.
i guess all depends on the results i thinck that 2500 for 30 horse power its ridiculuos just my two cents :cssNET:

RG4

03-23-2007, 08:45 PM

Hey Guys I dont now much . all i now is that mase has been at the cnc shop alot ove last week . i know at tag ther trying to get everything right . for dif iteams .cause the want to make this kit just bolt on. guys its coming

yellowcobaltss05

03-23-2007, 09:12 PM

everyone just dont think about it. It will come :)

stryder

03-24-2007, 09:42 AM

everyone just dont think about it. It will come :)

great idea, i will just sit and bit my nails, hahaha;)

black06ss

03-24-2007, 12:30 PM

well i talked to them yesterday and they had told me that the snout was finished and they are woking on getting the bypass valve to work properly.

Red2.4SS/SC

03-24-2007, 12:36 PM

they said it would be done by the end of feb , its lookin like its not gonna be done until the end of may

Jumpin Fool

03-24-2007, 02:08 PM

well i talked to them yesterday and they had told me that the snout was finished and they are woking on getting the bypass valve to work properly.
What bugs the hell out of me is that we always have to be the ones to initiate contact when they should be the ones posting progress. It shouldn't take much effort for somebody to throw some pics up and show us things like the snout as they finish them.

SilverSS/SC

03-24-2007, 02:13 PM

What bugs the hell out of me is that we always have to be the ones to initiate contact when they should be the ones posting progress. It shouldn't take much effort for somebody to throw some pics up and show us things like the snout as they finish them.

Try running a full scale performance shop , and at the same time maintaing somewhat of personal life outside of it . Man , u guys just need to be patient ....the emplyees of Tag dont live on the internet ;) . At the end of a day there probably really isnt time to post pics and chat on the net in the up to the minute fashion u guys want . The Cobalt/ION is not the only type of car they cater too either .

NoRemorse

03-24-2007, 02:18 PM

I don't think the computer can handle anything more than 60#rs It would be impossible to get it to Idle properly.

The 60's max it out at anything over like 5k rpm. Easy fix though with the VE and PE tables, so it's not that big of a deal.

Try running a full scale performance shop , and at the same time maintaing somewhat of personal life outside of it . Man , u guys just need to be patient ....the emplyees of Tag dont live on the internet ;) . At the end of a day there probably really isnt time to post pics and chat on the net in the up to the minute fashion u guys want . The Cobalt/ION is not the only type of car they cater too either .

Mase could though....

Toronto SS

03-24-2007, 02:22 PM

Jumpin Fool

03-24-2007, 02:46 PM

Try running a full scale performance shop , and at the same time maintaing somewhat of personal life outside of it . Man , u guys just need to be patient ....the emplyees of Tag dont live on the internet ;) . At the end of a day there probably really isnt time to post pics and chat on the net in the up to the minute fashion u guys want . The Cobalt/ION is not the only type of car they cater too either .
For anyone else that wants to speak without knowing...
While serving full time in the military and maintaining a personal life, I ran a business by myself in a foreign country and in a foreign language. Mel isn't alone up there.:nono:
I'm not talking about posting something every second/minute/hour/day with pics and a full progress report. I'm talking about an update and pics when something significant is accomplished(like the snout).

...Mase could though....
Amen:twothumbs

I've spent spent a fair bit of time at the TAG shop getting work done and just chilling.
You mean bothering them when they should be working? Hey guys, this is the kind of person we can thank for slowing down the project. Did it make you feel cool the be "chillin" with the fellahs at the shop?

Good work takes time.
Taking the necessary time is not the problem.:nono: It's the lack of updates, as stated before. Or didn't you read that part?

Have I covered everything? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Toronto SS

03-24-2007, 03:01 PM

You mean bothering them when they should be working? Hey guys, this is the kind of person we can thank for slowing down the project. Did it make you feel cool the be "chillin" with the fellahs at the shop?

Taking the necessary time is not the problem.:nono: It's the lack of updates, as stated before. Or didn't you read that part?

Have I covered everything? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Youre a fucking jerk off... Peace

InfinityzeN

03-24-2007, 03:13 PM

Ok, I just gotta comment on this because it is bugging me. Your PSI *DOES NOT* matter!!! Screw PSI, you want that as low as you can possibly get it since the higher it is the more stress you put on your engine. What is important is CFM of airflow.

Look at it like this. The M62 is rated for 400cfm at 16,000rpm. This thing, if it is the type of twinscrew I'm thinking of, is rated at between 700 and 750cfm at 20,000rpm.

So you figure out how much CFM of air you want to flow, based on how much your engine can handle, trying to stay at your superchargers peak efficiency range. For the M62, thats 9~12psi peak range, with a dropoff at ~18.5psi. But you can lower the psi without lowering the CFM by increasing your cooling and improving your motors flow characteristics. Same CFM with lower PSI = more power.

That twinscrew will flow about 1.5 times as much air per rpm, has lower parasitic loss, won't put at as much heat, and can operate at a lot higher psi before it gets inefficient. Of course, your engine won't handle that psi without major work and going up that high is kinda pointless.

Here is something to think about though. Since both the twinscrew and the roots supers compress in the manifold (though the twinscrew does push air that is already compressed in there so it is more efficient), the same CFM from this thing will net you the same manifold psi as the roots if you don't change anything else. Of course, you'll make more power since the air is cooler and the supercharger isn't taking as much power to turn.

So whats my point?

STOP TALKING ABOUT FREAKING PSI SINCE IT IS A BY PRODUCT OF ANY FORCED INDUCTION SYSTEM!!! CUBIC FEET A MINUTE OF AIR IS WHAT DETERMINES YOUR POWER!!! ARG!!!

Toronto SS

03-24-2007, 03:23 PM

You mean bothering them when they should be working? Hey guys, this is the kind of person we can thank for slowing down the project. Did it make you feel cool the be "chillin" with the fellahs at the shop?

I realize I should let it go... but who's cars are the ones being used for testing, R&D, etc?

The local people in the area that's who.

So why not take the negativity elsewhere.

CleanNFun

03-24-2007, 03:39 PM

What is with the hostility in here geez. If you have something to say, make a different topic and flame away there. You are just making this thread worse with all your crap and stupid comments. So you want something to come out, we all want something at some point, just sit there and shut up. If you can do better then show them up, otherwise just throw some words of encouragement instead of idiocy, and save up your money for when it comes out :). :spam:

Cobalt_Supercharged

03-24-2007, 04:04 PM

InfinityzeN = +4 for truthatude :twothumbs :twothumbs

Scythe_Snake

03-24-2007, 05:03 PM

Here we go again, the twin screw thread will be once agained ruined.

How about this, everyone just sit back and WAIT for this already QUICK aftermarket to catch up. Its amazing how fast the aftermarket and companies like TAG to start and make stuff so quickly for our cars, so lets show a bit of appreciation and just sit back, hope, and WAIT!!!

yellowcobaltss05

03-24-2007, 05:15 PM

everyone just dont think about it. It will come :)

what i said

stryder

03-24-2007, 06:41 PM

R&C_rallySS

03-24-2007, 06:54 PM

TVS_SS

03-24-2007, 07:04 PM

So whats my point?

STOP TALKING ABOUT FREAKING PSI SINCE IT IS A BY PRODUCT OF ANY FORCED INDUCTION SYSTEM!!! CUBIC FEET A MINUTE OF AIR IS WHAT DETERMINES YOUR POWER!!! ARG!!!

Well..not to nit pick.. but its not CFM either.. its "MASS" Airflow that determines power.

CFM is a volumetric flowrate and as you know, air varies in density by pressure and temperature

Mass flow is telling you how many molecules of oxygen (essentially) are entering your engine.

rickyw

03-24-2007, 08:39 PM

For anyone else that wants to speak without knowing...
While serving full time in the military and maintaining a personal life, I ran a business by myself in a foreign country and in a foreign language. Mel isn't alone up there.:nono:
I'm not talking about posting something every second/minute/hour/day with pics and a full progress report. I'm talking about an update and pics when something significant is accomplished(like the snout).

Amen:twothumbs

You mean bothering them when they should be working? Hey guys, this is the kind of person we can thank for slowing down the project. Did it make you feel cool the be "chillin" with the fellahs at the shop?

Taking the necessary time is not the problem.:nono: It's the lack of updates, as stated before. Or didn't you read that part?

Have I covered everything? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Its people like you that will drive away vendors please refrain from posting on this thread anymore so this thread doesnt become a dead in.

JMAc88

03-24-2007, 11:24 PM

The 5 that should be the most concerned about the development of this project are
1.2K5SS/SC? Deposit made !
2.Jumpin Fool Deposit made !
3.black06ss Deposit made!
4.JMAc88 Deposit made!
5. BoomInIt Deposit made!
all of which have not posted in here except for now, it takes time, we understand heckeling will not make it go faster. I would rather them take thier time and make a bolt on kit then a half assed kit that you have to modify (also what sets tag apart from others)

rickyw

03-24-2007, 11:43 PM

The 5 that should be the most concerned about the development of this project are
1.2K5SS/SC? Deposit made !
2.Jumpin Fool Deposit made !
3.black06ss Deposit made!
4.JMAc88 Deposit made!
5. BoomInIt Deposit made!
all of which have not posted in here except for now, it takes time, we understand heckeling will not make it go faster. I would rather them take thier time and make a bolt on kit then a half assed kit that you have to modify (also what sets tag apart from others)

exactly......that is all

ItalianJoe1

03-25-2007, 01:58 AM

The 5 that should be the most concerned about the development of this project are
1.2K5SS/SC? Deposit made !
2.Jumpin Fool Deposit made !
3.black06ss Deposit made!
4.JMAc88 Deposit made!
5. BoomInIt Deposit made!
all of which have not posted in here except for now, it takes time, we understand heckeling will not make it go faster. I would rather them take thier time and make a bolt on kit then a half assed kit that you have to modify (also what sets tag apart from others)

Right. At least we dont have any money laid out that we are waiting to see a return on. Give them a break. A true, bolt on kit that works right the first time will be worth the wait.

Jumpin Fool

03-25-2007, 05:09 AM

The 5 that should be the most concerned about the development of this project are
1.2K5SS/SC? Deposit made !
2.Jumpin Fool Deposit made !
3.black06ss Deposit made!
4.JMAc88 Deposit made!
5. BoomInIt Deposit made!...
Thanks for pointing that out. I have made legitimate complaints. For those that couldn't read it the first time...
I'm not asking them to pull a kit out of an orifice in record time. I simply want updates. No one from here should have to call them to find out what's going on. If you can't understand that and want to talk about how much time it's going to take, how I should have patience then I can't help you understand. I've had patience. Anybody want to take a look at the list? I've been in this from the beginning. So all of you that have NOTHING invested can go take a long hike, off a short cliff, and jump in the lake. I'm sure that humor will be lost on the slower crowd.
All of you that have asked questions about "How much cost/HP/work?" or "How long/when is it coming out?" Try reading the forum. It's all been answered. Or how about this, for the lazy ones, THEY DON'T KNOW any of the answers. It's all guesses. All the answers that Jim was pushing were assumptions. Everything from price to HP and when it was going to be released. I got that straight from Mel in a phone conversation and everybody that has been in it for the long haul can verify that.
I've got an idea. How about all the wannabes stay off the thread and leave it to TAG and those of us on the list? Then when I log on I won't have to sift through all the crap just to find out that TAG hasn't posted anything. The other benefit is that the new people won't have to sift through to find all the answers to their questions. It's an amazing concept.
Now I know some cry baby is going to have something to say. That will just prove to me that they've missed my point exactly.

WHEW! I'm spent :lol:

stryder

03-25-2007, 09:56 AM

Lets all take into consideration that most of the people who want updates and such saw how fast the turbo swap was finished and put on the market showing TAGs determination and speed to satisfy our need for speed. So most thought that the Twinscrew swap would take less time if not the same. (Flame on me if you want but isn't it true that when Jim was there we had an update of somekind every day or other day.)

JCswoosher2

03-25-2007, 10:17 AM

So right now there sitting on 5 $2500 payments? thats crazy.

tcolli17

03-25-2007, 08:41 PM

The deposit wasn't for the full amount.

InfinityzeN

03-26-2007, 10:05 AM

Well..not to nit pick.. but its not CFM either.. its "MASS" Airflow that determines power.

CFM is a volumetric flowrate and as you know, air varies in density by pressure and temperature

Mass flow is telling you how many molecules of oxygen (essentially) are entering your engine.

Yes your correct. That was more of a rant then a clean post.

To clear up a few things. No matter which SC (roots or TS) you use to move air into the engine, you'll end up with the same PSI for the same CFM. A cooler temp for the air moving in will have a higher density or "MASS" and thous more oxygen, so it will generate more power. That is where cooling helps.

With a 2.7" pulley, at 7k engine rpm, you will be right around 16k on the SC. So figure about 1cfm for every 40 SC rpm or 17.5 engine rpm. Even at worse case, your still going to move over .9cfm every that number of rpm. What you want to do is get the mass of that set volume as high as possible. Oh yes, while I'm thinking of it, this set volume per so many rotations is what gives SC their instant power, responsiveness, and flat torque curves.

A properly sized blower with a properly sized pulley for the engines air requirements, with cams that flow well through the desired rpms, and in which the blower never leaves its efficient zone will give you a near flat-lined torque curve. Of course, if you compare how mostly flat the SS/SC is stock to the steadily greater and greater high end torque drop you get with smaller pulleys, you'll see the effect of moving out of that efficient zone.

Cooling the air, or at least protecting it from heat soak, coming into the SC gives you more mass per volume, and thous more oxygen to burn. Kinda why boost and power go up in colder times of the year. Cold air intakes help here by pulling in cooler outside air. Heat wrapping helps to, since it helps prevent the air from being heated by your hot running engine. Water injection also helps somewhat if it is before your blower, though it does far more with the next step.

Next we have the air going into your supercharger. Now when your SC is hot, air moving into it is heated and starts expanding, or taking up more volume per mass. Since your SC is moving a set volume per rotation (and even worse case is moving over 90% of its peak rated per rotation), you want to make sure that there is as much mass as possible per volume. So we have to ether cool the SC more or make sure it doesn't heat up the air as much. Water injection before the blower does both of those and this should help you see part of how it gets you more power. A hood designed to pull air over the SC and then eject it from the engine bay will help cool down the SC as well (along with most other things under the hood).

Then there is cooling the air in the manifold (as the SS/SC aftercooler does) which increases the density of the air compressing inside of the manifold. This denser air takes up less space, so increasing the cooling in your manifold will giving you more dense air with lower heat (duh!), lower PSI (the volume of the air is lower), and more power (more mass of air+fuel, better timings due to lower heat).

So once you have done all of that, you'll be pretty close to maxing out the raw mass that the M62 can move. Now you have to do things to help the engine use that mass. Head work (porting, polishing), valve (bigger isn't always better though) and valve train work, higher flowing cams (more below), header work and exhaust (gotta get all that air your putting in out).

A word on cams. If you don't see a drop in your PSI after switching cams (with no other changes made), the cams are not flowing more. If they move the best flow range of your engine, it will cause one of two effects.

If your boost builds slower at the lower to mid rpm range, but spikes up to your old peak or higher, the cams have moved your engines better flowing range down the rpms.

If your boost builds up faster, levels off (again at or over your old peak), then drops, the cams have moved your engines better flowing range up the rpms.

From all I have seen so far, the TriFlow move you up the rpm range. Won't know for sure until more people get them, install them, tune them, and post results.

Everyone is welcome to nitpick this post

BoomInIt

03-26-2007, 01:30 PM

Bolt on = Happy

Red2.4SS/SC

03-26-2007, 02:06 PM

So right now there sitting on 5 $2500 payments? thats crazy.

no just 5, 1500 deposits :lol: :lol:

XenSS06

03-28-2007, 08:43 PM

any updates?

JCswoosher2

03-28-2007, 08:51 PM

Change the title to Screw Twin Update

2K5SS/SC?

03-28-2007, 09:04 PM

Change the title to Screw Twin Update

:lol: Funny, but not really fun bro. Starting to ponder a custom turbo setup to give me something to do.... I'll give it a couple more weeks though. ;)

ExHondaMan

03-28-2007, 11:32 PM

Actually its 6.. I also laid a deposit down before I decided to sell my balt. I just asked Jim not to post in the thread as I didnt want to be bothered with PMs.
I actually need to call Mel and find out what is going on exactly and what the status of my deposit is... should be interesting.

JCswoosher2

03-28-2007, 11:34 PM

Hey ExHondaMan PM sent. jk

ExHondaMan

03-28-2007, 11:36 PM

Hey ExHondaMan PM sent. jk

BANNED !!!! :lol:

Mase

03-29-2007, 01:20 AM

Mase could though....

oh right, but then again you forgot I go to school and have exams end of this month!! comon your in engineering you know the feeling of a heat transfer exam when the prof tells you before hand that 50% of his students fail the final.

I don't work at TAG 7 days a week, only a part timer here.

I'll post updates when I have them, meaning I don't have any.

XenSS06

03-29-2007, 02:01 AM

oh right, but then again you forgot I go to school and have exams end of this month!! comon your in engineering you know the feeling of a heat transfer exam when the prof tells you before hand that 50% of his students fail the final.

I don't work at TAG 7 days a week, only a part timer here.

I'll post updates when I have them, meaning I don't have any.

Owned!:nuts: :nuts:

MVP

03-29-2007, 02:12 AM

HOLY FUCK DAN!! that thing looks HUGE when it is shown next to the blower! Now I see why it's not gonna fit back there!!!

yeah i think i'll be able to rape him untill he hit about 5K RPM's that is....

so how about that twin screw......

JackD

03-29-2007, 02:25 AM

yeah i think i'll be able to rape him untill he hit about 5K RPM's that is....

so how about that twin screw......

Your going with a turbo... why are you checking on this? :D

MVP

03-29-2007, 02:38 AM

Your going with a turbo... why are you checking on this? :D

What if i decide to twincharge using the twinscrew.......

JackD

03-29-2007, 03:00 AM

I may have the car paid for by the time this thing comes out... if that is the case I will be able to save for it real fast!!

But sadly my 05 already has 60k on it so I will not be making huge HP with it... just a bit more with this if it ever is released.

Scythe_Snake

03-30-2007, 02:12 AM

JackD

03-30-2007, 02:37 AM

You did not understand what I was saying.

This may be the last power adder I will put on my car.

It will make the same amount of power with lower PSI.

It will stay cooler and in turn have less of a chance of detonation.

There will also be less parasitic strain on the motor.

This will increase the longevity of the motor and add power; if I slap it on and boost all the way up to 20psi, for something like 300whp, it will be just as hard on my motor, or harder, than my current set up.

So if I get it I will not go nuts like that. I only need around 16-17psi, or whatever it takes, to make something like 250whp. A more efficient SC will make the same amount of power as the eaton with my current 2.8" pulley, but it will do it with a lot less strain on my motor.

Really I want to get 200k miles out of the motor before a rebuild, wishful thinking:rolleyes:, so this would be a fantastic mod to add a little more power with less strain on my motor. Just like mods used to cool the incoming air like a cobra heat exchanger.

Damn!

gilbert

04-03-2007, 12:26 PM

any updates:confused:

AjSS

04-03-2007, 12:39 PM

mysweetSS

04-03-2007, 03:42 PM

did anyone recieve theirs that ordered it? and what's up with no updates? it's been like forever since this project started.

BabyGurl`RL

04-03-2007, 04:08 PM

Geeez, all you guys need to learn to appriciate people a little more and complaine a little less:nono:
....I'm sure Mase would have posted an update if A) he had any and B) if he got the chance, how about you guys relax and let the guy do his thing. :)
Like he said, he aint working at Tag full time, he's an Mech.Eng. Student let him be, education is more important!:cool:

;)

srt-killer

04-03-2007, 04:11 PM

Not more than twinscrew!! lol

distillion

04-03-2007, 04:15 PM

BabyGurl`RL

04-03-2007, 04:16 PM

ha ha ha
:)

Not more than twinscrew!! lol

beamSS

04-03-2007, 04:16 PM

+1 lol^

MVP

04-04-2007, 02:08 AM

07SSCharged248

04-04-2007, 08:56 AM

Heres a question... um.... Is anyone actually working on the Twinscrew anymore????

2K5SS/SC?

04-05-2007, 09:08 AM

I just got an update, so check your PM's if your in on this. They are still working on it. They are having issues with a certain part, as I expected that one part to be tricky. This one part though has to be perfect within a millimeter or less, so I don't mind taking the time for that. I believe out of everyone here, I'm the one that has been the most patient. I'm in the military as well, so I understand Jumping Fools perspective considering when I contacted TAG to do this in the first place I was in the desert.

2K5SS/SC?

04-11-2007, 09:47 AM

Bump For An Update Again!

yellowcobaltss05

04-11-2007, 09:54 AM

bumpage!

BoomInIt

04-11-2007, 07:35 PM

the wait continues...

gilbert

04-11-2007, 07:51 PM

i thinck we all like an update is been a while now r they still doing the twinscrew ?????? now remmember its just a question if u dont wana answer is ok just dont give us any shit for asking ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

BoomInIt

04-13-2007, 01:47 AM

they are making it bolt-on ....it takes some time to custom fab the plate,snout,intakemanifold, and dual pass I speculate 1 more month before release.

CobaltSS313

04-15-2007, 03:06 PM

yah just wait for it to come out guys. when it does im sure they'll let us know, just give it time.

R&C_rallySS

04-16-2007, 09:28 PM

I have tried to keep my peace, and I have waited patiently and will continue to wait patiently till the product is done, as I said i want this kit to be bolt on.

But comments like the one above do make me mad as they are very disrespectful. Don't tell us (the ones who have money down) that we made a mistake. If you read the original twinscrew intrest thread you would remember that tag would not have even started the project without 5 deposits. Without the 6 of us placing down our "Cabbage" there would be no twinscrew update thread period. You should care that the 6 of us put money down so you can see a finished product to decide if you want one.

I agree with that, however can we can back on topic? Bleh, why did I even type that lol. Its going to be off topic now and as long as the kit is not out....:cussing:

JCswoosher2

04-16-2007, 09:29 PM

06blackg85ss

04-16-2007, 09:35 PM

still nothing. I was pretty hopeful on this project myself

JMAc88

04-16-2007, 09:38 PM

When it seems to take this long. It brings doubt in my mind that maybe they blew the motor up and are having to rebuild it or maybe find another route. But all i can do is speculate. It bothers me to see the people with Down Payments not get any update on info.

I am almost sure that the car the twinscrew is being fitted to a members car, so if they blew the motor, i am sure we would have heard about it.

It is kind of dissapointing now that Jim is gone and we don't get regular updates, but i am sure tag has saw that there is a market for this product and that they haven't stuck it on the back burner.

One last thing that i will point out though, if you want to talk about dissapointing. I check the tag section every day, and when ever i see something new my heart skips a beat thinking that there is some sort of update, only to find out that it is 4-5 post of people arguing over something they have no control over.

Jumping fool, I know it is hard to wait, but just think about how much better this kit is going to make you feel when you have it on the car.

For those random posts of update?, guess what, tag will let us know when there is something to be updated. making a random update post will just add 2 more pages to the already to long list of useless pages in this post.