Alright guys i just got off the phone with mr. Bill Hahn, basically im just starting this thread so he can personally address the subject. Also when i was speaking to him he asked if we could post a link to the whole number 4 piston problem, he has something he'd like to add to that thread as well. Personally it has been a while since we have heard anything about the turbo 2.0 but i think its worth the wait. Cant rush the R&D on these things. So for all you that have questions start posting, and please keep on the subject.

sounds great. experienced opinion on the 4th piston mystery would be welcome im sure.

subscribed.

I like this thread.

I think this is that thread you were talking about:

http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53780&highlight=piston

Just emailed the link to Bill Hahn

i would also like to keep up with this

subscribed

I will keep checkin in on this thread also!

sounds great. experienced opinion on the 4th piston mystery would be welcome im sure.

subscribed.

with the word "Blaze" in your sig. is that subliminal advertising for me to smoke weed? :lol:

Just emailed the link to Bill Hahn

glad to help

hellz yeah i want to keep up with this stuff as well

with the word "Blaze" in your sig. is that subliminal advertising for me to smoke weed? :lol:







rofl!. you know in the months ive had that your the first to say anythin.
its just a watermark from the GIF creater I used ;)

like to see where this thread goes...

Looks and sounds promising from what we spoke. That and all their products are great and customer service is awsome,so i dont mind waiting and being patient.

Hi everyone!

Let me begin by offering an update on our progress to date with the TwinCharger system. I've worked on this on and off for over a year now, and while it's been extremely educational, I am unwilling to release it to the public in its current state. Why, you may ask? Well...it's just not ready for prime time, in that there are a number of rough edges that I have run out of time to smooth out. I'm a madman for details that make our products exceptional, and this one's just not up to snuff. For now, I've moved it to the back burner while we develop other systems we consider to be more viable.

For competitive reasons, I am tight lipped about just what I don't like about it. Suffice to say, we've come to a point in the development process where we are doubting that the complexity and cost of the final result will be justified by the results achieved. I think I have better work to do with this car series, work that is only being delayed by continuing to flog this (admittedly bizarre) solution. So, mothballs for now. Will it return? With the discontinuation of the supercharged car looming, the chances grow dim.

As some of you may have seen on these pages recently, our 2.4 turbosystem is most definitely ready for prime time! I agonized about releasing this system, for it was my sworn intention to get the TwinCharger out there first...since it was started first, and I didn't want to start 'camp wars' between the 2.0 SC and 2.4 groups, I delayed the intro of the 2.4 systems for quite some time. But, as many of you may also know, we've attained significant success with the 2.4 in our Solstice/Sky turbosystem line, and I could not hold back on the 2.4 'Balts any longer.

So, while we did manage to get some tasty exhaust components out there for you SC guys, the next product to emerge will be...the all-turbo conversion. We've been quietly advancing this setup, and will have systems ready for the public this summer.

I'd request you folks to ask questions on this new 2.0 turbo setup, and I will answer those that I can. I humbly request your patience with me should I decline to answer a particular question for reasons of competitive secrecy.

As for the #4 cylinder issue...my opinion is this. The problem is the #4 cylinder running leaner than the others!!

Wow! What a revelation, eh? Ah, but here's the rub...it's not getting less fuel. It's getting...more air. The design of the 2.0 SC intake manifold is simultaneously a packaging feat and an airflow disaster. I give props to the engineers who packed so many items into such a tight space, but they never intended it for much more than stock airflow, and I find it to be one of the most convoluted, odd flowing pieces I've ever come across.

Let's start here. Your turn! :)

i've been looking in the #4 piston..a larger fuel rail and ..even converting to a returnline system would do a great job for this...please correct me if i'm wrong...:)

cant wait......:cssNET:

i've been looking in the #4 piston..a larger fuel rail and ..even converting to a returnline system would do a great job for this...please correct me if i'm wrong...:)

I really don't think the fuel rail is at fault, and we've run big HP on other returnless cars such as SRT-4.

The 2.0 SC fuel rail has immense internal volume. They are even used on the 1400HP GMRacing cars. Of course, they use 2, as they have 8 injectors, but even then, the rail is proven effective at 700HP.

There are some basic physics and fluid dynamics at play here...as gasoline, like most fluids, is virtually incompressible, it cannot exist at two different pressures in a common vessel (in this case, the fuel rail).

finally more options for us, do you recomend running a standard intake like the custom one you guys sell, and just ditch the air to water intercooler system all together, or are you planning on making us a better one? also price range on the all turbo conversion......., the reason i haven't bought the competitors product yet, way to overpriced.

what would be the price and power level for the turbo conversion?

What tuning method or program will you be using to tune the cars with. Will customers with HP Tuner be able to tune the car after the intial setup up and tune. ex maybe upgrading cams, valves springs, boost and timing, retune or send to you for a flash?

I have used Hahns kit on my eclipse 420a they make awesome stuff and there products are top notch

Agreed, id rather wait for their kit and get something that is quality and reliable. Plus they already have experience turboing the EcoTec.

Bill,

I to have thought about the extra air flow thats possible on that side of the block, the intake is a "hodgepodge" of parts crammed together.....

my question is simple....

with your turbo kit will you be useing an empty blower case as a intake hat or will you be makeing a custom pice?

my guess is custom but then we run into the issue of electrical system charging, with the LSJ alt only able to spin one direction(the pulley is clutched) how will you solve this issue?

the other 2.2/2.4 alts are a lower amp output(cobalts are actually a bit better then there sister model ions due to different manufacturers) with the lower out put the car wont reach a full 14.4v system change(i know this because of a close working relationship with DJT and the turbo redline) his only hits 13.4-13.6 while moving and drops in traffic

whats your thoughts/plan on this issue?

thanks for your time and a hopeful answer.

I will predict now for all here that the full turbo swap will have no problem with the #4 piston. IMPO the #4 problem is heat/cooling. The m62 is just making the air toooo hot and the #4 piston gets the warmest coolant, so it fails. But as seen by Jon's turbo kit, his IAT2 never goes above 115 @ WOT forever. THE PROBLEM IS THE M62 :).

Cant' wait for this.................Turbo owns

i wanna do a turbo swap but i live in cali..so i dont know bout smog :(...i still think a return line would be the best bet..like the srt 4's

finally more options for us, do you recomend running a standard intake like the custom one you guys sell, and just ditch the air to water intercooler system all together, or are you planning on making us a better one? also price range on the all turbo conversion......., the reason i haven't bought the competitors product yet, way to overpriced.

We will be replacing the entire intake/supercharger/intercooler assembly in our system with one of our StreetRace sheetmetal manifolds.

what would be the price and power level for the turbo conversion?

These items are yet to be determined. We will strive to keep it affordable, and as powerful as can safely be achieved.

What tuning method or program will you be using to tune the cars with. Will customers with HP Tuner be able to tune the car after the intial setup up and tune. ex maybe upgrading cams, valves springs, boost and timing, retune or send to you for a flash?

This system will be end-user tunable. To what extent is yet to be determined, but as we've already demonstrated with our product for Solstice/Sky and now 2.4 Cobalt, we aren't locking you in to canned tunes that aren't capable of compensating for every possible modification and/or climate.

We will be replacing the entire intake/supercharger/intercooler assembly in our system with one of our StreetRace sheetmetal manifolds.


Keeping the stock intercooler might advantageous because it would obviously save plumbing, weight, simplfy things and save money. Although for ultimate cooling FMIC would be best.

Bill,

I to have thought about the extra air flow thats possible on that side of the block, the intake is a "hodgepodge" of parts crammed together.....

my question is simple....

with your turbo kit will you be useing an empty blower case as a intake hat or will you be makeing a custom pice?

my guess is custom but then we run into the issue of electrical system charging, with the LSJ alt only able to spin one direction(the pulley is clutched) how will you solve this issue?



As noted above, we are chucking the whole 'hodgepodge' in favor of a dedicated manifold.

We will have an effective alternator solution that retains the stock alternator.

i wanna do a turbo swap but i live in cali..so i dont know bout smog :(...i still think a return line would be the best bet..like the srt 4's

If fuel isn't the issue, and we don't believe it is, then no fuel system combo can cure it. As a point of comparison, we offer returnless fuel systems for SRT-4's that comfortably make up to 500HP and drive like stockers :)

Keeping the stock intercooler might advantageous because it would obviously save plumbing, weight, simplfy things and save money. Although for ultimate cooling FMIC would be best.

I think you said it all!

FWIW, we've tried very hard to love the stock intercooler system, but like the blower, it was designed for the heat loading of the stock power level, and not much more. And retaining it means retaining the heinous airflow shortcomings of the stock manifold, which is a virtual labyrinth of twists and sharp turns...

As with our other offerings, an oversized FMIC will be standard :)

Interesting theories....

bump

very interesting.... makes me wanna hold back on any other mods and wait to see where this goes

i know there has to be more questions

once hahn has some info to give to us there will be tons of questions.

read the thread, they posted on the subject.

These items are yet to be determined. We will strive to keep it affordable, and as powerful as can safely be achieved.

This system will be end-user tunable. To what extent is yet to be determined, but as we've already demonstrated with our product for Solstice/Sky and now 2.4 Cobalt, we aren't locking you in to canned tunes that aren't capable of compensating for every possible modification and/or climate.

I have read the thread, thanx, this is kinda what i am talking. Once hahn has more info to give to us, ppl will have more questions. Post a vid of the system in action and the thread will turn into a 20 pager over night.

I'm still waiting to get your Super 20G turbo kit.

I'd actually just like the parts to complete the project. I understand there is a question of liability, but I'd just like the parts to be available.

Subscribing to this thread cause I know its going to get good here really soon!

el-subscribing! :)

hmmmmmmmmm........... any ideas on what turbo will be used??? or is that a hush hush no no question?? Reguardless way i cant wait for this.

eh we are going to have to wait till they are done with the prototype. But regardless if its from hahn its going to be good, powerful, ad most importantly reliable.

Yes reliable and powerful are the best two things when getting a big build done. I have total confidence that Hahn will be able to do both of those things. Look at their other project cars in the past not to mention their unbelieveable pontiac sunfire! I have a buddy with a turbo Cavalier from Hahn and yet to have a problem! And its fast as hell! total sleeper! I can not wait for the release for this kit! Bill Hahn is a great guy and Im not angry that he took this long to get this kit done. He is doing it right the first time and this way you have no problems!!!! WOOT! RANT DONE!

Agreed, Rep Added, HahnRaceCraft is the SHIT!!!

Are the sheet metal manifolds ready for sale? And will they be using the oe throttle body?

This is DAMN good to hear. Thank you and good job Hahn for the updates as well as the dedication to our vehicles.

Now on to my question. I have heard recently that goind Turbo, they suggested doing a piston swap before or during the Turbo conversion. He had said that they won't hold up to the newly found power. What's your take on this?? I am planning to do a Turbo swap this winter and want to do it right the first time. She's still gonna be somewhat of a daily driver so reliability is paramount. Thanks again

Now on to my question. I have heard recently that goind Turbo, they suggested doing a piston swap before or during the Turbo conversion. He had said that they won't hold up to the newly found power. What's your take on this?? I am planning to do a Turbo swap this winter and want to do it right the first time. She's still gonna be somewhat of a daily driver so reliability is paramount. Thanks again

My question is basically the same. I can't wait for this to be released! :guns:

Interesting info about the manifold .

hmmmmmmmmm........... any ideas on what turbo will be used??? or is that a hush hush no no question?? Reguardless way i cant wait for this.

We are doing two system iterations. One is aimed at stock LSJ engines, and will use our very popular and proven Super 20G turbo, which can support up to 475 HP. This is a real sweetheart in the 300-450 HP range. Outstanding durability, as efficient as anything available, and a super match for the 2.0...we've sold hundreds of them to 2.0 liter customers (Mitsu and Chrysler) to date!

For those who are getting busy with built engines, the Garrett GT35R will be the ticket. This will not be for everyone, but for those who insist on more than 500 HP, this will be the way to go.

Should you start with a Super 20G, and wish to move the the GT35R later, interchangeability is part of the design.

Are the sheet metal manifolds ready for sale? And will they be using the oe throttle body?

These will debut with the turbosystems, and will use the oe throttle body.

This is DAMN good to hear. Thank you and good job Hahn for the updates as well as the dedication to our vehicles.

Now on to my question. I have heard recently that goind Turbo, they suggested doing a piston swap before or during the Turbo conversion. He had said that they won't hold up to the newly found power. What's your take on this?? I am planning to do a Turbo swap this winter and want to do it right the first time. She's still gonna be somewhat of a daily driver so reliability is paramount. Thanks again

While there's no doubt that you can increase potential durability with a piston swap, I'd not consider it a neccessity. We've pushed this piston design very hard in testing, and not seen a problem. As with any factory cast piston, it's not as forgiving to tuning or octane mishaps as a forged aftermarket piece. But it's a boost-intended design, and if the car is tuned and operated correctly, it should hold up just fine.

^^^^ noice, i've heard good things about the super 20g

suscribed.

I would love a full turbo conversion. way better than twincharging. super 20g all the way.
I gotta start saving $$$.

Any ballpark estimates on how expensive the kit will cost?

Remember you get what you pay for. i think it will be a lil on the high side but its going to be damn worth it, cant put a price on quality and reliability! just my opinion

Should you start with a Super 20G, and wish to move the the GT35R later, interchangeability is part of the design
you guys are my heros, damn i can't wait.

Glad to hear that. I figured that they were fairly durable pistons. I guess depending on my budget by this winter, will be the deciding factor on which direction I go. I would prefer to do pistons though. Which brings me to another question...

If I were to just go with pistons, head gasket and head studs for the Turbo swap for reliability purposes, what would you suggest for piston choice?? This is kind of new for me, so I would be unsure as to what compression to go with, if I should even have to change it, or what kind of coating I should get on the pistons.

nice :cssNET:

Glad to hear that. I figured that they were fairly durable pistons. I guess depending on my budget by this winter, will be the deciding factor on which direction I go. I would prefer to do pistons though. Which brings me to another question...

If I were to just go with pistons, head gasket and head studs for the Turbo swap for reliability purposes, what would you suggest for piston choice?? This is kind of new for me, so I would be unsure as to what compression to go with, if I should even have to change it, or what kind of coating I should get on the pistons.

You should go with stock compression because thats what the kit is being built around. If you got lower compression pistons you could run even more boost though.

The 20G will be amazing

good for all you 2.0 guys but the 2.2 market is still getting left out in the cold. and last time i checked we are the highest selling cobalt so why no love from the hahn dept?

thanks Bill Hahn

Any ballpark estimates on how expensive the kit will cost?

It's a little early to make any estimates, for the details are still forming as to exactly what will be in the systems. We'll know more soon!

You should go with stock compression because thats what the kit is being built around. If you got lower compression pistons you could run even more boost though.
I agree!

As for piston manufaturers, I've been satisfied with product from JE and Wiseco.

good for all you 2.0 guys but the 2.2 market is still getting left out in the cold. and last time i checked we are the highest selling cobalt so why no love from the hahn dept?
Well, you know the hand the 2.2's are dealt...an oddball computer in 2005-2006 that's not been cracked yet. And, most of them are sold to non-sporting folks, so that the bulk of those meaty production numbers come from cars sold for economical transportation rather than powerful fun :)

Nonetheless, we do stand ready to meet the need for 2007-up 2.2 applications, should an enterprising individual wish to get us a car for a beta install. To keep this thread pure, I'd humbly request a PM if you'd like to learn more!

thanks Bill Hahn

You're very welcome! Thank you too :cssNET:

Click...

Nice!!!Im saving my cash for this.
Just one question.Can you explain the oil return line?On the 2.4 thread,the oil return was sent back via the drain plug,and there was a vent hose going to the water pump access plate.Im curious how that works.Or is there a fitting in the block you that you use for this application?Thank you.

Before i forget or this thread gets out of hand i would like to say this to you Mr.Hahn


THANKS for showing interest in our car to this extent. I'm 3/4 into my own swap and seeing things like this just make me believe that it was the correct way to go.

i wish you the best luck with this project and i will keep an eye out for the finished product.

Nice!!!Im saving my cash for this.
Just one question.Can you explain the oil return line?On the 2.4 thread,the oil return was sent back via the drain plug,and there was a vent hose going to the water pump access plate.Im curious how that works.Or is there a fitting in the block you that you use for this application?Thank you.

This is a unique setup we have developed that allows one to incorporate an oil drain without removing or drilling the oil pan. As we are preparing for patent protection on this, I am unable to divulge details. Suffice to say it saves hours of futzing about with removing and drilling oil pan, scraping silicone, oil in your eyes, etc etc!

Before i forget or this thread gets out of hand i would like to say this to you Mr.Hahn


THANKS for showing interest in our car to this extent. I'm 3/4 into my own swap and seeing things like this just make me believe that it was the correct way to go.

i wish you the best luck with this project and i will keep an eye out for the finished product.

Thank you too! Best of luck with your project.

I've actually agonized over this setup for some time...let me explain:

We started working with the Ecotec some five years ago, and immediately struck gold with a Cavalier/Sunfire system that could easily reach into the 12 second range with little more than the turbosystem and good tires. I've been in love with the Ecotec ever since I first discovered it, of all places, in the reverse engineering lab at Chrysler's Tech Center way back in 2001! I saw this brutally designed all-alloy engine laying dismantled on a bench there, and was immediately impressed at how it was so advanced, and how reminiscent it was of the delicious motorcycle engines I had achieved so much with over the years.

Trying not to act too impressed, even though I wanted to just drool, I asked my engineer-guide what it was. He looked at the tags on the parts and said, "Oh, that's a Saturn engine." I nodded and we moved on, but the hook was set, and I kept on wondering about that 'Saturn' engine. Keep in mind, this is before anyone outside of GM even knew that this engine would be in production Chevy's and Pontiacs soon, and well before the GM Racing team would mop up the Pro drag racing classes with Ecotec.

The following year, due to legal wrangling, Saturn would become another standard GM nameplate, and while it lost its autonomy as an 'independent' automaker, there was one HUGE benefit for us four-cylinder afficionados...this simply outstanding engine would now become GM's 'corporate' four cylinder! Imagine my glee when GM approached us in 2002 to partner up and turbocharge this engine in the soon-to-be released Cavalier-Sunfire!

Since then, we've sold hundreds of Ecotec turbosystems, and shown the way to dependable, off-the-shelf HP. Our latest surge has been with the new Solstice and Sky, which were in and of themselves an answer to a dream I have had since I was not even old enough to drive (legally anyway!)...a four-cylinder roadster, built RIGHT, that I could put some real down-home GRUNT into!

Yet, as much as the Cavalier-Sunfires were just a slam-dunk for us, the Cobalt-G5 has been frustrating. Way too many new iterations of engines/transmissions, and computers. We've built numerous prototypes, twincharger included, that just didn't ring the bell to my satisfaction. Frankly, folks, it's been a bitch, and any sensible businessman may have turned away long ago.

But as of late, dogged determination has finally broken through the clouds, and the sun has started to shine. Our now ready 2.4 systems have made me smile, and even though the twincharger just didn't have the chops I required, it taught us a lot about how to best approach the upcoming all-turbo conversion.

So, the agony has been this: As we've also been involved in the SRT-4 market, which, with all due respect to that car, it's a sedan with looks that one has to learn to love, and an engine that, while superb, is stil about 10 years behind Ecotec! It's just been a flat-out annoyance to me that SRT-4's are so popular and powerful, while Cobalts have been saddled by the lack of good power options.

No more! I can't leave this magnificient evolution unfinished. My work is not yet done. The Twincharger fascinated me, and frankly...sidetracked me for too long. Here comes the next chapter. I won't rest until we have fabulous options to take this car where it should have been all along. All I ask for is your patience...I can't rush this, I won't rush this, and we are well along already, but that's NOT an indication that we will have shippable product next week, or even next month. I do have other engineering projects here that I must also tend to, for my company cannot hinge its future on Cobalt alone. But I am confident that if we all hang in there, by late summer there will be some mighty tasty options that will finally allow the Cobalt-G5 to ascend to its rightful place!

Thanks for your time in reading this manifesto, and more than anything...thanks for being audacious enough to support a car that's unique, and not simply what everyone else is doing. Viva le difference!

Bill Hahn Jr.

Ok guys, just be patient. Thanks, Bill Hahn for the info and support for our cars.



Regards
Jose



http://a497.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/27/m_32d7448ccd618e85c0bb6760343fca98.jpg

God, I remember those good ol' J-body days when you first came out with your kits. Seeing all those posts on JBO always made me want to buy a base model Cavalier and just make a monster out of it. Never really heard any bad things about Hahn until I came here and people were bitching because you were no where to be found for a while. I say, take your time Bill. You've done wonders for the performance scene when it comes to four-cyliders. I've known since day one that I'd be swapping out for a turbo on this car. It's great to see someone else realize it's full potential while taking the time to produce a kit that's safe and reliable as opposed to getting the highest dyno possible to sell kits. Keep it safe, cause I'm sick of hearing about all these poor Cobalts w/ blown engines...

lets not blown this tread up like we did wit the tag sc swap and turbo and completely push them away from us, thanks Mr. Hahn jr great work

actually bill wants all the questins and feed back that we may have

This is a unique setup we have developed that allows one to incorporate an oil drain without removing or drilling the oil pan. As we are preparing for patent protection on this, I am unable to divulge details. Suffice to say it saves hours of futzing about with removing and drilling oil pan, scraping silicone, oil in your eyes, etc etc!



Thank you too! Best of luck with your project.

I've actually agonized over this setup for some time...let me explain:

We started working with the Ecotec some five years ago, and immediately struck gold with a Cavalier/Sunfire system that could easily reach into the 12 second range with little more than the turbosystem and good tires. I've been in love with the Ecotec ever since I first discovered it, of all places, in the reverse engineering lab at Chrysler's Tech Center way back in 2001! I saw this brutally designed all-alloy engine laying dismantled on a bench there, and was immediately impressed at how it was so advanced, and how reminiscent it was of the delicious motorcycle engines I had achieved so much with over the years.

Trying not to act too impressed, even though I wanted to just drool, I asked my engineer-guide what it was. He looked at the tags on the parts and said, "Oh, that's a Saturn engine." I nodded and we moved on, but the hook was set, and I kept on wondering about that 'Saturn' engine. Keep in mind, this is before anyone outside of GM even knew that this engine would be in production Chevy's and Pontiacs soon, and well before the GM Racing team would mop up the Pro drag racing classes with Ecotec.

The following year, due to legal wrangling, Saturn would become another standard GM nameplate, and while it lost its autonomy as an 'independent' automaker, there was one HUGE benefit for us four-cylinder afficionados...this simply outstanding engine would now become GM's 'corporate' four cylinder! Imagine my glee when GM approached us in 2002 to partner up and turbocharge this engine in the soon-to-be released Cavalier-Sunfire!

Since then, we've sold hundreds of Ecotec turbosystems, and shown the way to dependable, off-the-shelf HP. Our latest surge has been with the new Solstice and Sky, which were in and of themselves an answer to a dream I have had since I was not even old enough to drive (legally anyway!)...a four-cylinder roadster, built RIGHT, that I could put some real down-home GRUNT into!

Yet, as much as the Cavalier-Sunfires were just a slam-dunk for us, the Cobalt-G5 has been frustrating. Way too many new iterations of engines/transmissions, and computers. We've built numerous prototypes, twincharger included, that just didn't ring the bell to my satisfaction. Frankly, folks, it's been a bitch, and any sensible businessman may have turned away long ago.

But as of late, dogged determination has finally broken through the clouds, and the sun has started to shine. Our now ready 2.4 systems have made me smile, and even though the twincharger just didn't have the chops I required, it taught us a lot about how to best approach the upcoming all-turbo conversion.

So, the agony has been this: As we've also been involved in the SRT-4 market, which, with all due respect to that car, it's a sedan with looks that one has to learn to love, and an engine that, while superb, is stil about 10 years behind Ecotec! It's just been a flat-out annoyance to me that SRT-4's are so popular and powerful, while Cobalts have been saddled by the lack of good power options.

No more! I can't leave this magnificient evolution unfinished. My work is not yet done. The Twincharger fascinated me, and frankly...sidetracked me for too long. Here comes the next chapter. I won't rest until we have fabulous options to take this car where it should have been all along. All I ask for is your patience...I can't rush this, I won't rush this, and we are well along already, but that's NOT an indication that we will have shippable product next week, or even next month. I do have other engineering projects here that I must also tend to, for my company cannot hinge its future on Cobalt alone. But I am confident that if we all hang in there, by late summer there will be some mighty tasty options that will finally allow the Cobalt-G5 to ascend to its rightful place!

Thanks for your time in reading this manifesto, and more than anything...thanks for being audacious enough to support a car that's unique, and not simply what everyone else is doing. Viva le difference!

Bill Hahn Jr.

This right here is the reason why I love GM so much. Underestimated for sure... Bill, you are quickly becoming my hero. lol..Keep up the good work, and I will be keeping up on this for sure.

This right here is the reason why I love GM so much. Underestimated for sure... Bill, you are quickly becoming my hero. lol..Keep up the good work, and I will be keeping up on this for sure.


You mean to tell me Bill isnt your hero already?!! Damn he's been mine since I got over Chuck Norris lol! Bill is the Shit====FTMFW!

subsribed wanna see how its gunna come out

So is this replacement manifold also going to work injunction with the stock m62 blower
and H.E? or is this only for the complete swap.

So is this replacement manifold also going to work injunction with the stock m62 blower
and H.E? or is this only for the complete swap.

I'm fairly sure that this is a COMPLETE swap. I know that you could use the stock aftercooler and/or a Cobra HE, but I believe it's a complete swap

it is a complete swap, they are using their racing sheet metal intake manifold and a large front mount intercooler. this kit is going to be sweet. i think this kit will top any other turbo swap that are or have already come out.

So is this replacement manifold also going to work injunction with the stock m62 blower
and H.E? or is this only for the complete swap.

http://www.hahnracecraft.com/ProjectVehicles/New_Folder/Cobalt/Cobaltintake.htm

This link gives an idea of what the finished product will look like. Alas, no...it will not support a supercharger.

http://www.hahnracecraft.com/ProjectVehicles/New_Folder/Cobalt/Cobaltintake.htm

This link gives an idea of what the finished product will look like. Alas, no...it will not support a supercharger.

Thats sexy

Hmmm...I may have to reconsider my decision to not go turbo....this sounds promising.

Hmmm...I may have to reconsider my decision to not go turbo....this sounds promising.

same here think it would be hard to install?

same here think it would be hard to install?

Ultimately, that answer depends more on your skills and patience than anything!

For what it's worth, the entire setup will be a bolt-on affair, and should not be difficult.

Ultimately, that answer depends more on your skills and patience than anything!

For what it's worth, the entire setup will be a bolt-on affair, and should not be difficult... we are sending Acidangel_5.0 a free kit to test it out on.


no way.. sweet deal dude.. ill be waiting.. :lol:

side question though...
this doesnt pertain to me since i dont have the item.. but i know alot of peeps probably have strut braces and all of the TC kits i have seen the tubing will not work with them... is there an alternate piping offering or will people just gonna have to ditch it?

So, the agony has been this: As we've also been involved in the SRT-4 market, which, with all due respect to that car, it's a sedan with looks that one has to learn to love, and an engine that, while superb, is stil about 10 years behind Ecotec! It's just been a flat-out annoyance to me that SRT-4's are so popular and powerful, while Cobalts have been saddled by the lack of good power options.

Viva le difference!

Bill Hahn Jr.

Thanks for taking such an intrest in this car. It has been sadly overlooked by many aftermarket companies. Also, it has frustrated me that friends of mine have doubts about the quality of the Ecotec RPO LSJ engine, and its potential.

My question for you is this: While I am an avid visitor of my local dragstrip, I fell in love with the LSJs driving characteristics, and low-mid range torque. Is there a supercharger swap in the works? Will the poorly designed intake manifold issue be addressed?

If not, how does the power band look on the turbo swap? (I know this question is a prying one):(

Even if my hopes of an S/C swap are about to be dashed, I'm still very excited about your dedication to our needs. Rest assured my money will be going into Hahn Racecraft for all future power additions regardless of your answer. Your reputation for quality products is impressive. I'm sure you have picked up quite a few long time customers with this risky business endeavor. The rewards will be lucrative. :beer:

Brian Dougherty,
Speed Junkie;)

P.S. Thanks again for taking the time out of what I imagine is a very busy day to conference
with us on this.

no way.. sweet deal dude.. ill be waiting.. :lol:

side question though...
this doesnt pertain to me since i dont have the item.. but i know alot of peeps probably have strut braces and all of the TC kits i have seen the tubing will not work with them... is there an alternate piping offering or will people just gonna have to ditch it?

That's a good concern, one we've been considering also.

We've not yet finalized the exact routing of our setup, but...if anyone wishes to 'hedge their bet' and get me a photo of their brace installed, now's the time! The more examples we see, the better, and we still have time perhaps engineer around the braces. Please PM me if you wish to send such a photo.

That's a good concern, one we've been considering also.

We've not yet finalized the exact routing of our setup, but...if anyone wishes to 'hedge their bet' and get me a photo of their brace installed, now's the time! The more examples we see, the better, and we still have time perhaps engineer around the braces. Please PM me if you wish to send such a photo.


there is one on my car Bill... the DC sports brace.

Thanks for taking such an intrest in this car. It has been sadly overlooked by many aftermarket companies. Also, it has frustrated me that friends of mine have doubts about the quality of the Ecotec RPO LSJ engine, and its potential.

My question for you is this: While I am an avid visitor of my local dragstrip, I fell in love with the LSJs driving characteristics, and low-mid range torque. Is there a supercharger swap in the works? Will the poorly designed intake manifold issue be addressed?

If not, how does the power band look on the turbo swap? (I know this question is a prying one):(

Even if my hopes of an S/C swap are about to be dashed, I'm still very excited about your dedication to our needs. Rest assured my money will be going into Hahn Racecraft for all future power additions regardless of your answer. Your reputation for quality products is impressive. I'm sure you have picked up quite a few long time customers with this risky business endeavor. The rewards will be lucrative. :beer:

Brian Dougherty,
Speed Junkie;)

P.S. Thanks again for taking the time out of what I imagine is a very busy day to conference
with us on this.

You're welcome, Brian. Thanks also to you for the kind words, and to everyone for the common interest!

No, we've not planned anything with a supercharger swap. We are playing the card we know so innately in turbocharging, and feel it's the best path to enlightenment for the LSJ. We know we risk offending the supercharger-faithful...we earnestly tried for some time to incorporate the supercharger into the mix with our twincharging system, so as to support LSJ in its original intention...but we can't hold back progress any longer.

Chances are, you'll not be dissatisfied with the low to midrange on the Super 20G. We've worked for years to optimize this setup, and it enjoys an excellent melding of low-speed response with high-end flow. It won't 'hit' with the authority of the supercharger, but...at the power levels this setup will be capable of, that kind of 'hit' ain't nothing but a tire-fryer anyway. Super 20G is more of a linear power increase that follows the engine's natural power characterstics, and, IMHO, is equally enjoyable, but easier to control.

Like you, we wish to silence the doubters. Our low 11-second Sunfire showed the world what an Ecotec can do with off-the-shelf parts and a very mild engine build, and we want to continue this proud tradition forward with Cobalt!

nice i cant wait any pics or a release date yet ?

bump

nice i cant wait any pics or a release date yet ?

Nothing pic-worthy just yet! Release is expected to be later this summer.

can you give us a price range so we could have the money saved up by later this summer.

can you give us a price range so we could have the money saved up by later this summer.

I am typically hesitant to quote price until we have a completed product. It's a slippery slope...underquote and we risk angering prospective customers with an ultimately higher price...overquote and we risk scaring them away before the product's even ready! Even a 'range' can have one of these effects, if not simultaneously both.

I'm going to resist making either of the above mistakes. If you wish to start saving now, I appreciate your dedication...as soon as I can, I will provide more detail.

bump for the day

i understand that you dont want to give a price quote which is not a problem or shouldnt be to any member on here as we know that youll give us a satisfactory product...Now hopefully this kit will push us over 300+ hp which is what most people want is at least over 300....Since it is pushing alot of hp from stock and it is turbo...how will we end up tuning this car to run good a/f ratios for us not to blow up??? and also what other goodies will we need to actually make this thing run...Like as in will we need to build our car with better pistons, cams and so on??

Ultimately, that answer depends more on your skills and patience than anything!

For what it's worth, the entire setup will be a bolt-on affair, and should not be difficult.

yeah im coming from working on old cars working on these cars is'nt to hard but the tunning factor is where im stumped when you realse the kit will you realse it with the tune as well and how much boost will be safe before you blow the engine im at 18 psi with the supercharger so im guessing with turbo it will be less than that

I am typically hesitant to quote price until we have a completed product. It's a slippery slope...underquote and we risk angering prospective customers with an ultimately higher price...overquote and we risk scaring them away before the product's even ready! Even a 'range' can have one of these effects, if not simultaneously both.

I'm going to resist making either of the above mistakes. If you wish to start saving now, I appreciate your dedication...as soon as I can, I will provide more detail.

thats understandable, i'll just start saving:twothumbs

Now hopefully this kit will push us over 300+ hp which is what most people want is at least over 300....Since it is pushing alot of hp from stock and it is turbo...how will we end up tuning this car to run good a/f ratios for us not to blow up??? and also what other goodies will we need to actually make this thing run...Like as in will we need to build our car with better pistons, cams and so on??

We will be building in considerable end-user tunability so that those who wish to analyze and optimize AF ratios and other tuning parameters will have the chance to do so.

We are working to determine the safe power limits for the stock engine, so that we can provide a more detailed answer, but to date, we are satisfied that the engine is capable of 400-450 HP in stock form when properly tuned and operated. Consider that the threshold. If you want to run beyond that power level, internal mods would be advisable. Further...should you wish to really push the limits on pump gas, a built engine will be more forgiving of any 'incidents' with spark knock. If you don't mind putting some hi-octane in the tank when you turn the boost up high, then your durability on stock parts will be higher. Of course, one of the inherent advantages of turbocharging is the ability to run different boost levels at the flick of a switch, so it is very feasible to have a car that runs on pump fuel at moderate boost levels for daily use, and higher octane at high boost levels for occasional fun!

im looking into twincharging my cobalt. are there any kits in the making or am i looking a custum setup

We will be building in considerable end-user tunability so that those who wish to analyze and optimize AF ratios and other tuning parameters will have the chance to do so.

We are working to determine the safe power limits for the stock engine, so that we can provide a more detailed answer, but to date, we are satisfied that the engine is capable of 400-450 HP in stock form when properly tuned and operated. Consider that the threshold. If you want to run beyond that power level, internal mods would be advisable. Further...should you wish to really push the limits on pump gas, a built engine will be more forgiving of any 'incidents' with spark knock. If you don't mind putting some hi-octane in the tank when you turn the boost up high, then your durability on stock parts will be higher. Of course, one of the inherent advantages of turbocharging is the ability to run different boost levels at the flick of a switch, so it is very feasible to have a car that runs on pump fuel at moderate boost levels for daily use, and higher octane at high boost levels for occasional fun!

damm it just when i thought i was done modding this car here comes mr turbo lol now will this come with a tune you guys make or is iti like a self tune kinda thing

im looking into twincharging my cobalt. are there any kits in the making or am i looking a custum setup

you are looking at a huge headache.

read the whole thread. he already said they abandoned the twincharger setup.

my apologies i found it afterwards.

any new info or progress bill?

damm it just when i thought i was done modding this car here comes mr turbo lol now will this come with a tune you guys make or is iti like a self tune kinda thing

Like all our turbosystems, it will come with a very well-realized tune. We take great pride in the finished result of our product, and I spend every day on the dyno, track, and street. On average, I am calibrating turbosystems 30-40 hours every week! Fortunately, I enjoy a very capable staff who enable me to concentrate almost exclusively on new product development and refinement.

read the whole thread. he already said they abandoned the twincharger setup.

Abandoned means forever...it's not dead, but it's in suspended animation until a cure is found :)

As for the present and near future, pure turbo is where we are headed.

any new info or progress bill?
Nothing of note. At this point, we expect to be running prototypes through their paces during July. Once we have some near-finalized bits, I will show them off!

progress???

We are doing two system iterations. One is aimed at stock LSJ engines, and will use our very popular and proven Super 20G turbo, which can support up to 475 HP. This is a real sweetheart in the 300-450 HP range. Outstanding durability, as efficient as anything available, and a super match for the 2.0...we've sold hundreds of them to 2.0 liter customers (Mitsu and Chrysler) to date!

For those who are getting busy with built engines, the Garrett GT35R will be the ticket. This will not be for everyone, but for those who insist on more than 500 HP, this will be the way to go.

Should you start with a Super 20G, and wish to move the the GT35R later, interchangeability is part of the design.

Any thoughs on a BB center GT3071 or GT3076 instead of the 20G. How do they compare? Gt 30's seem to also be a popular turbo for the 350 to 450 hp range.

i am so glad i am graduating high school and my parents are badass and are gonna by me a full turbo conversion kit you are doing a great job bill thanks

Sounds like it will take some time on this but may be well worth it. I think it would be best if it sells under TAG's Kit

waiting, watching, and wondering. hope it comes out strong! lookin forward to seein the finished product.

Any thoughs on a BB center GT3071 or GT3076 instead of the 20G. How do they compare? Gt 30's seem to also be a popular turbo for the 350 to 450 hp range.

We plan to stay with our very proven Super 20G. Frankly, while the units you've mentioned are quite good, we prefer 20G for a variety of reasons:

Just as efficient
Just as quick spooling
More affordable
Field serviceable journal bearings (BB units require factory service, and cannot be serviced in any other fashion)
Very effective internal wastegate with more pressure actuator options
Watercooling not required (it's mandatory for BB units if you wish warranty coverage)
T3 inlet flange, creating better options for upgrading to larger units in the future

Add in the 12 month, unlimited mileage warranty, regardless of usage (30+ PSI racing included!), and you've got one helluva unit.

We've sold thousands of these, and the warranty and repair issues are nigh non-existent. Almost every 21st century OEM turbo car in North America has been Mitsubishi turbo-equipped, so you know it's not just us who feel this way :)

We plan to stay with our very proven Super 20G. Frankly, while the units you've mentioned are quite good, we prefer 20G for a variety of reasons:

Just as efficient
Just as quick spooling
More affordable
Field serviceable journal bearings (BB units require factory service, and cannot be serviced in any other fashion)
Very effective internal wastegate with more pressure actuator options
Watercooling not required (it's mandatory for BB units if you wish warranty coverage)
T3 inlet flange, creating better options for upgrading to larger units in the future

Add in the 12 month, unlimited mileage warranty, regardless of usage (30+ PSI racing included!), and you've got one helluva unit.

We've sold thousands of these, and the warranty and repair issues are nigh non-existent. Almost every 21st century OEM turbo car in North America has been Mitsubishi turbo-equipped, so you know it's not just us who feel this way :)

lol i want when is this turbo coming out and put me on the list i can't wait

We plan to stay with our very proven Super 20G. Frankly, while the units you've mentioned are quite good, we prefer 20G for a variety of reasons:

Just as efficient
Just as quick spooling
More affordable
Field serviceable journal bearings (BB units require factory service, and cannot be serviced in any other fashion)
Very effective internal wastegate with more pressure actuator options
Watercooling not required (it's mandatory for BB units if you wish warranty coverage)
T3 inlet flange, creating better options for upgrading to larger units in the future

Add in the 12 month, unlimited mileage warranty, regardless of usage (30+ PSI racing included!), and you've got one helluva unit.

We've sold thousands of these, and the warranty and repair issues are nigh non-existent. Almost every 21st century OEM turbo car in North America has been Mitsubishi turbo-equipped, so you know it's not just us who feel this way :)


WOOT IM SO STOKED!!! 30+PSI... whew... thats alot of poundage!!! lol. Pics??? lol

Sounds like it will take some time on this but may be well worth it. I think it would be best if it sells under TAG's Kit

regardless of price it will be hella better, no tubular turbo mani(known for cracking and breaking) replace our stock intake mani, better choice of turbos, FMI,better tuning option, plus hahn has the most experience in turboing GM car further more the ECOtec line. tag comes in at about 5k right? i think it will be arounif not a lil more butyou get more. plus you get whatyou pay for. HAHN all the way!

when you say this summer, do you mean 07 or 08?

this summer from what i understood.

when you say this summer, do you mean 07 or 08?

They're doing extensive testing this month. I would look forward to seeing huge updates in early-mid August...

Ill be on leave then... im still deciding if i wanna get the SS/SC on Leave or wait til i come home... probably gonna wait cuz i wont be able to drive it long! sucks... but im definitely lookin forward to seein this beast unleashed!

They're doing extensive testing this month. I would look forward to seeing huge updates in early-mid August...

Yes they are doing plenty of testing this month! My guess is you all will be seeing huge updates next week or so!

Ill be on leave then... im still deciding if i wanna get the SS/SC on Leave or wait til i come home... probably gonna wait cuz i wont be able to drive it long! sucks... but im definitely lookin forward to seein this beast unleashed!

ss/sc run ends this year just to let you know

yeh i know... if i dont get that ill be gettin the 2.4. havnt decided

so you aint coming back to the EPT? stationed at fort hood now?

ill be goin back to EP for sure. im 90% sure im not gonna re-enlist. too much BS to put up with and its not worth the hassle IMO. i want the ss/sc cuz its what ive wanted since i first saw the commercial for it. unfortunately after AIT i didnt have enough to get it and i didnt want to make payments and have to pay full coverage only bein 19 y/o at the time. right now i might get the 2.4. i just wanna see these numbers

2.0 numbers on the 20g should be around 350-400hp and 500-60whp on the gt35R but you need to build your motor if you want the gt3R

thats sick man. i guess we'll see what i can do when i get back. 2.4 or 2.0 lol not an easy choice

let us know when u get bck c if we can try to get a meet going

actually ill be droppin through EP for 2 days. sometime in the beginnin of Aug. ill only have my 2.2 then but still a balt for sure. ill let you know for sure.

them numbers are crazy... stock Evo IX's run... 19 PSI i think and they dont even make that much at the wheels. definitely gonna be a beast

yup its gona be wicked

ok so i guess we are still waiting for an update then, i just jumped into this thread now sorry

any updates bill?

any updates bill?

just asked dude

I should probably start saving up if its going to be released soon..... Im sure they will start off with a gp for it right away also

Please tell me this is coming soon, I'd love a full kit with a 20G and new intake manifold that gets rid of all the other crap and portfueler so we can just boost the living hell out of it

Twincharging doesnt appeal to me at all

is thier any updates or is this the olny thread about it?

i cant wait for this to come out...time to start making some real power!!!

just subscribing to see when this comes out and how much it is

anything bill???

any news?????

Updates are going to come pretty slowly, no pics will be available until everything is done from what I've heard from Bill. It will be worth the wait, so no more needs to ask for updates. Bill will come on here and fill everyone in when he has some news.

Got a friend sitting here he and I are wondering if the 2.0 kit is gonna put out the same numbers as the stg2 2.4 kit???

I've got the cash to get either the twinscrew or this. And I've got it right now. Forst one to come out gets my money. I love the fact that hahn racecraft has taken an intrest and are making parts... but its taking too long for me. I'm anticipating the twinscrew will be in production first. both kits are good enough to get me into the 12s and i think that the twinscrew sounds cooler than a BOV.
On the other hand, nothing drops panties faster than the endless pull of a turbo.. plus, the ricers would leave me the hell alone if i gave them a taste of a BOV. i might even get some respect.
I suppose if both came out on the exact same day, i would have to get the turbo(yeilds will be higher) but final price will most definitly be higher on the t/c swap as well.. leaving me less room to play with for drag radials and my 100 shot.. so its still just a waiting game, but i think I'm leaning to the twinscrew. for now at least.. unless we can get a damn price quote. Why will no one tell us WTF its gonna cost to upgrade our power adder?
Thats actually pissing me off quite a bit. if i knew, i could start prepping for its release by buying d.r.'s and axles and such.
(visa loves me cause i pay on time ;) )

So all in all, you guys (vendors in general) need to stop teasing us with snipits of info, and give it to us straight, if you want the business that is. [/rant]

Well ive been away from this site for a while and boy do things change keep up the good work. Very interested.

News soon hopefully ...

I'd like consistent 12's....meaning low 12's ;) or 11's
Getting there is easy enough, staying there is hard.

I know, it can be torturous awaiting results on systems in development. We deal with this on a regular basis, and feel your pain. We want to sell it, you want to buy it...the rest should be a snap, yes?

Several factors intervene:


We can't effectively price a system out until it is done, at which point we can assemble a comprehensive bill of materials/labor for costing purposes.
We can't rush to completion, lest we risk quality issues from inadequate testing and preparation.
As an innovator in a world filled with imitators, we are loathe to show our hand until we are ready to ship product.

We'll have to rest on our reputation of high quality and unmatched experience in this field as a successful formula, and just ask you all to keep these aspects in mind.

Thanks very much for the interest! I vow to keep you updated as updates become ready for prime time :)
Bill

Good to hear!

thanks bill

I think a quiiiiick weekly notice on update and progress could be possible ! ;)

Sweet, thanks Bill. I was talking to Matt @ TTP not too long ago about your pending kit. Keep the work up, I know when I switch to turbo, I'll most likely use your kit as opposed to making my own. I know it'll cost more, but at this point, I can't afford to fix problems I cause.

Everyone is very eager to see what you can produce...

I know, it can be torturous awaiting results on systems in development. We deal with this on a regular basis, and feel your pain. We want to sell it, you want to buy it...the rest should be a snap, yes?

Several factors intervene:


We can't effectively price a system out until it is done, at which point we can assemble a comprehensive bill of materials/labor for costing purposes.
We can't rush to completion, lest we risk quality issues from inadequate testing and preparation.
As an innovator in a world filled with imitators, we are loathe to show our hand until we are ready to ship product.

We'll have to rest on our reputation of high quality and unmatched experience in this field as a successful formula, and just ask you all to keep these aspects in mind.

Thanks very much for the interest! I vow to keep you updated as updates become ready for prime time :)
Bill

Still on for a late summer release?

Absolutely...late summer is the target!

Additionally, we are seeking another car for beta testing of the turbosystem. The ideal candidate vehicle would meet the following criteria:


Stock engine (no internal mods or GM stages)
Upgraded exhaust system (2.5" or 3")
Upgraded clutch
Good to excellent mechanical condition, not thrashed and/or already hurting!

If you or someone you know in the Chicago/Milwaukee region meets this criteria, please contact me for discussion of details. This won't be a 'freebie', but there is definitely room for a reduced price to be determined on the merits of the particular car and owner.

man...i would gladly test it for the south eastern climate zone (nc)...lol

i work at a gm shop with nothing but ase certified tech's around me

is this thing going to be air intercoolered or is it going to have a "heat exchanger" with the liquid to water cooling that be have now?

^ I believe they are doing away with the heat exchanger and intake manifold. They said the airflow wasn't distriputed evenly. That is the main reason I want their kit over then others.

Absolutely...late summer is the target!

Additionally, we are seeking another car for beta testing of the turbosystem. The ideal candidate vehicle would meet the following criteria:


Stock engine (no internal mods or GM stages)
Upgraded exhaust system (2.5" or 3")
Upgraded clutch
Good to excellent mechanical condition, not thrashed and/or already hurting!

If you or someone you know in the Chicago/Milwaukee region meets this criteria, please contact me for discussion of details. This won't be a 'freebie', but there is definitely room for a reduced price to be determined on the merits of the particular car and owner.

i would say use my vehicle but u guys will probably say no cause its got pulley and tuning with hp tuners done to it along with a stock clutch..... but a plus is its got 11k miles on it and thats mainly highway milage cause i work 30 miles from home

i would say use my vehicle but u guys will probably say no cause its got pulley and tuning with hp tuners done to it along with a stock clutch..... but a plus is its got 11k miles on it and thats mainly highway milage cause i work 30 miles from home
It all depends...the pulley matters not, for the SC will be gone, and the HPTuners changes are easily un-done.

The clutch may, or may not, be an issue...for time's sake, we would prefer to work with a car that has upgraded this already, so as not to have a 'surprise' during subsequent tuning of the vehicle at higher power levels. But, if one looks at it as 'yes, I'll put in a clutch should the need arise', then it's all good.

Frankly, we'd also like to know just how far the stock clutch will go before replacement is mandated due to higher power. I know the stock clutch in our twincharged car was still doing fine at 350 engine HP (about 300 WHP), so there's at least that much holding capability there.

If you would, please PM me with a list of your mods so I have you in the 'pool' of cars we are considering. Thanks!

Bill

^ I believe they are doing away with the heat exchanger and intake manifold. They said the airflow wasn't distriputed evenly. That is the main reason I want their kit over then others.
Very correct. We are going conventional FMIC with a core that can support 600 HP without breathing hard, and the stock intake/supercharger/intercooler assembly is history, to be replaced by one of our StreetRace sheetmetal intakes.

These intake manifolds will also be available seperately at some point in the future, as we do anticipate a demand for this as an 'a la carte' item for do-it-yourselfers. It will also be offered for 2.2 and 2.4 models. But we will satisfy the demand for complete turbosystems first.

I get so giddy just thinking about this...

really looking forward to this. saving up for internals right now. port and polished head on its way. any idea if the power numbers are going to be round the 2.4 or will they be better.

just curious of what you guys are gonna do as far as exhaust wise. Are you guys gonna make it so that it would bolt up in the stock location or are you going to include redesign the downpipe so that it bolts up to the cat back?

The clutch may, or may not, be an issue...for time's sake, we would prefer to work with a car that has upgraded this already, so as not to have a 'surprise' during subsequent tuning of the vehicle at higher power levels. But, if one looks at it as 'yes, I'll put in a clutch should the need arise', then it's all good.

Frankly, we'd also like to know just how far the stock clutch will go before replacement is mandated due to higher power. I know the stock clutch in our twincharged car was still doing fine at 350 engine HP (about 300 WHP), so there's at least that much holding capability there.


Bill



Other than the clutch, how can the rest of the driveline handle this power? The tranmision and LSD can only handle so much, but my question is your turbo kit going to be to much? I am really interested in this, but need somthing that will give me reliabilty as a daily driver. I love the idea of turning up the boost for the track, but how many track days will the car handle before it needs some major trany or engine work? And when you say put in higher octane for the turning up the boost how high of octane are we talking about? Would the 100 octane that is available at some of the stations out here be suficent or would I have to run full blown race fuel?

I just found this thread tonight and I am excited. Switching to a turbo isn't something I had considered but this thing should easily make 350HP reliably with a stock engine!

I wanted to find more info so went to the Hahn site to check out the 2.4 kit and it is impressive. Check it out at: http://www.hahnracecraft.com/New_Folder/The%20Cobalt-G5%20Solution.pdf

Almost twice the power with stock internals, WOW! The pic looks like it comes with everything you would need and I doubt it would take more than a day to install if you're experienced.

$3995, and I don't see an intake manifold in the 2.4 kit so I expect the 2.0 kit to be substantially higher.

I hope that Bill will post an engine dyno chart for the 2.0 kit. I'm concerned with the loss of low/mid torque and the chassis dyno chart doesn't show enough detail at lower speeds.

So, does anyone have an idea what I could get for my M62 kit with everything (Eaton, intake and exhaust manifolds, intercooler w/piping, injectors, fuel rail, drive belt, etc.) 14K miles, no stage-all stock, like brand new?

Randy :usa:
'05 SS/SC

Looking forward to this kit coming out as I would love to switch over to Turbo. Keep up the good work Hahn.

I think a quiiiiick weekly notice on update and progress could be possible ! ;)

Yeah ! Weekly updates :o)

ill be willing to put my car up. i do have gm stage 2 though. i have stock clutch but like you said, if it goes out it goes out, im planning on upgrading anyways. i have 4500 miles on the car so its pretty new.

Mods are : CAI, hurst short throw, 3"dp w/ hiflow cat, 2.5 corsa exhaust, gm stage 2, mrz strut bar, solid motor and trans mounts.

the only question i have is what would happen if the motor were to blow or go out due to the turbo kit? i live about 20-30 min from chicago and i have extra cars so losing it for a couple weeks wouldnt be the worst thing..jsut have to drive the slow integra lol

damn the suspense is killing me on this one, i'm half tempted to start building a kit myself, but i want the hahn quality r&d. :bow:

ill be willing to put my car up. i do have gm stage 2 though. i have stock clutch but like you said, if it goes out it goes out, im planning on upgrading anyways. i have 4500 miles on the car so its pretty new.

Mods are : CAI, hurst short throw, 3"dp w/ hiflow cat, 2.5 corsa exhaust, gm stage 2, mrz strut bar, solid motor and trans mounts.

the only question i have is what would happen if the motor were to blow or go out due to the turbo kit? i live about 20-30 min from chicago and i have extra cars so losing it for a couple weeks wouldnt be the worst thing..jsut have to drive the slow integra lol

Be sure to PM me if you have not already.

The aspect of potential engine damage during product development is complicated, and best discussed privately, as the outcome of such a (thankfully very rare!) incident varies per the individual situation. Suffice to say, we've never had a problem arise that did not end in a mutually agreeable outcome for all parties.

I just happened to see this post of yours and had a question. For arguments sake, lets say you did decide to use my cobalt as the test car for the Super20G. What exactly would happen if during testing/tuning the engine blew? Would I be SOL? Would you guys get a new engine for me? Somewhere in the middle? Also, with these kind of issues in mind, is there going to be like some sort of waiver/contract that needs to be signed? Just wondering, as I've never done something like this before. I'm still very interested, just want to know what I'm getting myself into. Also, any idea on when the test car will be chosen?

Thanks,

Steve


Be sure to PM me if you have not already.

The aspect of potential engine damage during product development is complicated, and best discussed privately, as the outcome of such a (thankfully very rare!) incident varies per the individual situation. Suffice to say, we've never had a problem arise that did not end in a mutually agreeable outcome for all parties.

it would be cheaper to build your motor than to buy a new one and put it in the car.

cobaltss0625: I may not have been clear enough in my post. There is no 'stock' answer for your question, for your question addresses a situation that does not currently exist. What I am trying to convey here is that in such an instance, the ultimate resolution is dependent upon a host of variable factors, none of which can be determined, and thus addressed, in such a hypothetical request.

To try to clarify, I'll address two (of the literally dozens of possible) hypothetical situations:

1. Car owner runs insufficient octane, and damages engine. Cost of repair to be borne by car owner.
2. Engine is tuned incorrectly, and fails due to a lean condition. Cost of repair to be borne by tuner.

Why would people 'risk' becoming part of such a situation with us? The allure of savings, the thrill of being involved in a project such as this at the ground level, and the peace of mind derived from knowing that we are experts with a stellar reputation.

Of course, one could always do it oneself, and bear 100% of the consequences, and many do. Still others involve themselves with performance shops that may or may not be up to the task...frankly, that's where the majority of horror stories emanate from.

Us, we have a reputation to uphold, and the last thing we could afford to do is tear up someone's equipment, then send them away broke or broken :)

We should be choosing a partner soon, once we are closer to having a second system ready. We will keep you posted, thanks much for your interest!

yea ecoboost i sent you a pm a few days ago. asking the smae questions and to talk about it.

if i wasnt 700 miles away id be all over this

if i wasnt 700 miles away id be all over this

ditto lol

I'm going to once again bring up the question about the alternator. On the LSJ it's a one way pulley, so what do you plan on doing to fix that? Or can't you say yet?

I'm going to once again bring up the question about the alternator. On the LSJ it's a one way pulley, so what do you plan on doing to fix that? Or can't you say yet?

i think they have already answered this question bro

about how long before this is gonna be released?

good idea thanks man

about how long before this is gonna be released?

Should be released sometime soon Id hope...

^YEAH...they have stated they are gonna release it late summer. i sure hope they do...it appears they are waiting to test it one one more car before they do finally release it. i started saving about 2 months back...lol

well im in the process of upgrading my clutch and putting another trans in cause i broke mine lol. so im looking for a big upgrade come tax return time

I just hope its a good price for this kit!

Weekly updates ...

any new updates? im torn between hahn and rebel turbo kit. luckly i cant afford to have the downtime till bout a month from now. hoping to see results soon.

Can't wait to see what these kits put down. When someone near me gets one, I'll challenge you to a race with my custom kit!

yea im thinking bout having smg autosports build me one. cause im tired of waiting although im sure hahn will be of an excellent quality

Can't wait to see what these kits put down. When someone near me gets one, I'll challenge you to a race with my custom kit!

Id meet you half way between MI and IL at a track!

Id meet you half way between MI and IL at a track!

Why do you never post pics or video of your car? Last I saw was when you had the full Hahn exhaust. You'd post a video for that, but not for a setup like in your sig?

Why do you never post pics or video of your car? Last I saw was when you had the full Hahn exhaust. You'd post a video for that, but not for a setup like in your sig?

Pics and vids will be up when its all ready! Almost time but not quite yet.

Here's my question... i didn't see it asked anywhere else.

You are talking about making a Super 20g and a GT35R kit. What about Axles? What kind of power have you guys made on our axles? There is a lot of debate on the subject. The only people that I have seen breaking them have been doing it at the track. I've never seen someone street racing and pop one. I only ask because there isn't any aftermarket for them. The Axle Shop makes the 400hp ones ($799) and some 800hp ones ($1999.99)! I was just curious as to how much power you were making on them.

AND while we are on that subject... the transmission. I've heard they really aren't rated for that sort of power... once again, have you guys already been making that sort of power on them reliably? Just important issues I've seen.

You strengthen one thing... you find your weak points. Just curious as to what you have found.

ALSO... for the Turbo kits, will you guys be adjusting/re-creating motor mounts so that the engine sits more upright (As GM recommends) rather than leaned back?

Thanks, Robert

I was doing some serious thought about that last night. How much do they move the engine? Isn't it something like 15 degrees?

Depends on how serious the setup... if its a really serious setup... the completely reverse the lean... from leaning back X amount of degrees... to leaning forward X amount. So, from this (Exhaust\Intake) to this (Exhaust/Intake)

I haven't read the book in a while... I'm a bit rusty.

Suscribing

I was doing some serious thought about that last night. How much do they move the engine? Isn't it something like 15 degrees?

Any idea of what the reason for this is?

For more room in the back for the turbo to sit. As it is right now, theres really little room. Thats the main reason that Bryan and I had so much trouble when we were planning it out.

You can actually order the solid brackets for mounting the engine in the forward position... they have GM part numbers...

Four solid engine mounts are used at the engine and transmission. These mounts tilt the engine forward in the chassis for proper alignment with the axles when the vehicle is lowered. GM part number CPT618, CPT619, CPT620 and CPT621 (Fig. 238)

They are pictured in the Phase 5 Cobalt section of the GM Build Book.

Yea, I was looking through that last night and saw those part numbers. Everywhere I look for them though they won't show up

gm use's a old skool saab design....moves things 2in farther forward using the trans as your axis and roll point.

not a set tilt degree just engine movement on the cradle.

For more room in the back for the turbo to sit. As it is right now, theres really little room. Thats the main reason that Bryan and I had so much trouble when we were planning it out.

That was the only thing I could think of but I wasn't sure being that with a race car you can just cut your way through the firewall :)

Here's my question... i didn't see it asked anywhere else.

You are talking about making a Super 20g and a GT35R kit. What about Axles? What kind of power have you guys made on our axles? There is a lot of debate on the subject. The only people that I have seen breaking them have been doing it at the track. I've never seen someone street racing and pop one. I only ask because there isn't any aftermarket for them. The Axle Shop makes the 400hp ones ($799) and some 800hp ones ($1999.99)! I was just curious as to how much power you were making on them.

AND while we are on that subject... the transmission. I've heard they really aren't rated for that sort of power... once again, have you guys already been making that sort of power on them reliably? Just important issues I've seen.

You strengthen one thing... you find your weak points. Just curious as to what you have found.

ALSO... for the Turbo kits, will you guys be adjusting/re-creating motor mounts so that the engine sits more upright (As GM recommends) rather than leaned back?

Thanks, Robert

Axles are a very contentious subject...these cars are prone to mad wheelhop if not prepped correctly, and this is a death sentence for axles. Will you need to upgrade the axles? My advice is this...use the stock units until (if) they fail, then upgrade to DriveShaft Shop 400 HP units. Any car that's been turned way up will need driveline upgrades, so this is not unique to Cobalts. By avoiding wheelspin and wheelhop, we've enjoyed excellent life on stock axles, and we heartily recommend you do the same!

We have good news on the transmissions...in our Ecotec Sunfire Turbo project car (2.0 turbo), which uses the F23 version of this gearbox (your cars use the higher torque-rated F35), we've managed 11.14 @ 132 in the 1/4 mile, and 515 WHP, with no trans problems. Like the axles, needless abuse and wheelhop will break this trans well before pure power will.

No, the turbosystems we are developing are just that...turbosystems. Relocating the engine/transmission assembly is another matter altogether, and a complicated one at that! What you see on the GMRacing cars is a radical approach that also integrates the automatic transaxle they prefer. In that instance, it's actually about achieving optimal drive axle geometry at the much lower than stock ride height in those cars. They are pure drag cars, however, with minimal ground clearance...this driveline relocation is not as applicable to our stock-bodied street cars :cssNET:

Sweet.

We're picking up a 6-Bolt 1995 Talon TSi AWD here in a few days. We'll be giving you guys a call. You are my ultimate and only choice when it comes to turbos. and power.

subscribed

so how big of a turbo do you think we could fit in there?

so how big of a turbo do you think we could fit in there?

Seeing as how their largest kit will feature a GT35R... I don't think it would be too much more of a stretch to get a GT42R in there.

everyone keeps speculating bout the power. what i want to know is when is thing gonna finally come out. earlier it was late summer. well summers almost over. was hoping to get one of the kits to the track this year. not looking too promising right now.

Seeing as how their largest kit will feature a GT35R... I don't think it would be too much more of a stretch to get a GT42R in there.

fitting a 30R is a complete nightmare!!!
with a conventional mounting set up and position.

if you think out side the conventional box theres a PERFECT space and location back there.

Any updates? Were you able to find a local SS/SC to mock everything up? Can't wait to see how you're making out. Matt @ TTP told me you contacted him in the begining of the summer about the kit. If I get this kit, that's who I'm going to have tune it...no question about it. Keep up the good work and keep building relationships w/ amazing tuners like Matt...

A gt35r? I'd love to see that in comparision to a Gt30R. I'm having one hell of a time fitting the 30R there, and I'm making my own exhaust manifold so I can take advantage of all the space I can.

bump for any updates

so whats going on with this. any updates? anything?

bump ^^

alright guys...we're moving into fall! whats the word?!

the fall has decided on us, yet nothing. where are you guys with the products, or at least updates.

still waiting it seems....

i know we are antzy but i trust hahn and think the product is going to be well worth the wait. Bill can you give us any info on the progress of this kit?

Bill has been pretty good about posting info when he has it . Man ...I hope this doesnt turn into another Tag thread with 10 million pages people pleaing for info .

Relax :D :D :D

Guys... Its coming. Soon! Just relax. Bill will post up on here when he has something to show for what he has been working on. Have some faith guys!

Hi all!

Ah yes, the 'inevitable delays' have crept in, but we are still making progress.

The engine builder for our GT35R-equipped prototype car has been swamped with racing engine work, and unfortunately, these racers are his bread 'n' butter! Additionally, their schedules are inflexible, with race dates to make, so we got the back burner with our lil ol' Ecotec! Seems everyone he does work for just shredded their stuff this season, so it's been a flood of new engine prep for them.

We will take possession of the built 2.0 this week, and can get it into the mix. Thankfully, a number of CNC parts have also arrived, so now the project can move ahead at full steam again! We've already mocked up the bulk of the system, so things should happen pretty quickly now. We are still awash in other development projects, as well as preparing for SEMA, but it's our goal to be able to get some serious trials on this car while the weather is still favorable.

We can also now choose a good candidate for a stock-engined 20G-equipped version from those of you who have applied. We'll be in touch!

In other 2.0 news:

We've been playing heavily with our 2.0 Sunfire, which has run as quick as 11.14 @ 132, putting down 520 WHP so far. We tore down the engine for inspection, massaged a few items, and are putting it back in the car this week. Now that we've seen the innards of the beast, and liked what we saw at 520 WHP, we are going to stick the boost to it, with the goal being 600-650 WHP. Hopefully, there's enough time left in the season to hit our goal of mid-low 10's!

And of course, we've been all over the 2.0 turbos in the Solstice GXP and Sky Redline. Fun stuff, can't wait to get these engines in the FWD cars soon!

Well, got to run...I've got a 2.4 Sky on the dyno currently that we dropped the compression ratio to 9.1:1 from the rather torrid 10.6:1. Still a stock engine, save for the valve springs, head studs, and our compression conversion. She's about to pass the 300WHP mark on pump gas, so off I go!

Awesome News! I would love to be the test car for the Super 20g... but do not have the money to buy the test kit to put on it... :(

But when I do I'm getting the 20g kit for the SS and for our 95 Talon GSX!

what all is being done to the 35r race motor? i plan on getting the g35r turbo kit and i just want to know what needs to be done to the motor. thanks

i cant wait to see what happens with this....

what all is being done to the 35r race motor? i plan on getting the g35r turbo kit and i just want to know what needs to be done to the motor. thanks

see sig +more that I couldnt fit in the sig.

what all is being done to the 35r race motor? i plan on getting the g35r turbo kit and i just want to know what needs to be done to the motor. thanks

The engine builder is located in Aurora, IL, and can take care of your needs. We work together on a variety of projects, and I have great confidence in their abilities.

Custom Engine Service, 630-844-1071. Tell them Bill Hahn sent you!

Everyone: Please restrict calls to serious engine building inquries only, as they are an engine machine shop and not a 'parts house'. But if you wish to have an engine built by a seasoned veteran, this is a good source.

I know your going to use port fueler....... but will that beable to support the motors fuel needs past the stock computers limitations? If so you guys can expect my business in the future after my motor build

I know your going to use port fueler....... but will that beable to support the motors fuel needs past the stock computers limitations? If so you guys can expect my business in the future after my motor build

portfuler will probably be for 35 R, the 20 G wont need that much more fuel think just some 60s. plus all their kits are install plug n play no tuning other than what they send flash on the pcm. so you dont need to worry bout anything with any of hahns kits, just the install time thats all.

portfuler will probably be for 35 R, the 20 G wont need that much more fuel think just some 60s. plus all their kits are install plug n play no tuning other than what they send flash on the pcm. so you dont need to worry bout anything with any of hahns kits, just the install time thats all.

Dont quote me on this as Bill is the one who would have final say in this but I do believe Portfueler will also be on the super 20g kits as well as the 35r kit.

Any updates here?

so fall is here in full bloom and winter will be upon us within a month or so. whats going on with the release. im sure its worth the wait but any updates?

Trust me! It will be worth the wait! I would expect to get some updates and possibly some pics/vids of it. You will def. atleast get an update very very soon! :cssNET:

^^^ woo hoo!!! cant wait for the vids...... you better not be teasing.

^^^ woo hoo!!! cant wait for the vids...... you better not be teasing.

Teasing is all I can do right now until Bill releases the pics/vids! All I can do is talk. haha

:lol: :cssNET: :lol:

so honestly how much longer do you think us ss/sc guys have to wait for a kit to be offered for us thats tuneable and reliable pushing us over the limitations of our eaton chargers??

so honestly how much longer do you think us ss/sc guys have to wait for a kit to be offered for us thats tuneable and reliable pushing us over the limitations of our eaton chargers??

good question

so honestly how much longer do you think us ss/sc guys have to wait for a kit to be offered for us thats tuneable and reliable pushing us over the limitations of our eaton chargers??


Updates ...

maybe there going for a christmas release since summers gone and hell falls almost gone. such a long wait. but im sure it will be worth it

Its coming together nicely. Just some loose odds and ends to finish up. Not to mention Bill has been in Vegas the whole week at the SEMA show. Im just waiting on his return to tune the car, and then Ill be able to put some miles on the engine before we turn up the boost!

how much is the 35r kit?

man i would love to be the test car for the 35r kti, or even the 20g kit!

how much is the 35r kit?

man i would love to be the test car for the 35r kti, or even the 20g kit!

You will have to talk to Bill about the pricing. I have the 35r kit but I also have a full built motor and head, Bill is currently looking for two STOCK Cobalt SS/SC's. One for the 35r kit and one for the 20g kit.

i pm'd him about my inquiry, what is he looking for in a car for one of the projects? do you kno? I am really interested and live like 20 mins from chicago

BTW i think i see your car before around the schamburg mall?

also how much power are you making, and is that a daily driver for you?

i pm'd him about my inquiry, what is he looking for in a car for one of the projects? do you kno? I am really interested and live like 20 mins from chicago

BTW i think i see your car before around the schamburg mall?

also how much power are you making, and is that a daily driver for you?

Trust me, you havent seen my car. Unless you saw it back when it was blown, because I havent had my car in about 4 months. Anyway, Bill is looking for a completely stock cobalt I believe. I know he is super busy with SEMA this week so look to hear back from him next week!

kinda given up with this kit coming out. any updates at all or has this been abadoned

me too, at least if someone can update, it will be great.

Currently finishing up the downpipe, and working on the belt drive system. Then tuning and it shall be finally complete! Oh the piping is all being powdercoated at this time too. Anyway I should be up at Hahn sometime next week to snap some pictures and post them in here!

Any New Word On This Kit?

It's really disappointing not to see something from them yet, when they said they would have something by the end of summer. I think instead of going with Hahns kit I'm just going with a 2.6 pulley. I've watched two summers go buy with no one putting out a kit that is reliable and comes with a solid tune.

It's really disappointing not to see something from them yet, when they said they would have something by the end of summer. I think instead of going with Hahns kit I'm just going with a 2.6 pulley. I've watched two summers go buy with no one putting out a kit that is reliable and comes with a solid tune.

You will be pissing away your money just going with a 2.6 pulley. Even with cooling mods you are creating so much heat and are way out of the effiency of the stock eaton. Not to mention the intake manifold is truely junk. Do you not pay attention to the horror stories of piston #4? I would do some research unless you want to turn into me and have to do a complete motor build because it blew up from a small pulley. There will be updates and pictures soon.

Bill finished up with the belt drive system. I have not seen it yet in person but from what Bill says its looks killer! Anyway look for updates when I get some!

i say go with the small pully. with meth people are getting close to 300 whp. the turbo kits only seem to be getting an additional 30 whp. not worth the money if you ask me. but if your just starting off the turbo kit would deffentaly be something to think about.

i say go with the small pully. with meth people are getting close to 300 whp. the turbo kits only seem to be getting an additional 30 whp. not worth the money if you ask me. but if your just starting off the turbo kit would deffentaly be something to think about.

its called.. longevity and life of motor... more efficieny = less destruction...
throw that 2.6 on. Crack that block in a year (if it survives) and look at the internals... trust me.. not gonna like what you see.. multiple meanings for the best "route" to a certain hp #... ill go the way the more efficient and less desctruction/strain on the motor..... but im just saying...

We have had almost a dozen people in our area with 2.5 or 2.6 pullies and no cooling mods. Only one motor has blown and that was a tuning issue. All the other motors have been going awhile with no problems.

Final touches are being done as Im typing this. Should be picking it up Wednesday-ish and take some pics and videos for everyone!

they're still doing it? i thought hahn fell off the map. i was ready to buy this kit like 9 months ago. probably lost alot of business due to being slower than the smaller companies who actually finished.
i'm sure hahns kit will be far prettier than the others, but who cares since it took so damn long..

they're still doing it? i thought hahn fell off the map. i was ready to buy this kit like 9 months ago. probably lost alot of business due to being slower than the smaller companies who actually finished.
i'm sure hahns kit will be far prettier than the others, but who cares since it took so damn long..

Not too many people on here even went turbo yet. And yes no kit will come even close to how nice this kit is. No one has a completely different intake manifold with 4 extra injectors incase you feel like turning the boost up to insane levels. Im sorry but if you dont want to wait then thats your choice.

Hahn did not fall off the map, they are doing what they do best... Turbo kits. They do it right the first time, and make sure that their customers will not have any problems with their kits. If that doesnt sound good to you then you need to go with someone else and buy their cheap crap that will not last long.

The only thing I am disappointed in, is they are testing on your car and you are FAR from a stock motor. But I know they tried to find a more stock cobalt.

Oh well.

There is no doubt they will have the best setup out there and the most reliable. I can't wait to see how they tuned it and hopefully its a standalone system.

Just dump the Cobalt already Steve, everyone else is :D

On the small pulley = motor destruction comment...
We have over a dozen LSJ's running 2.6/2.5 pullies (even 1 with a 2.35), some with no supporting mods (not even an intake), running well over a year now with 0 issues (2nd winter now). Will their blower last as long as a stock pulley? Probably not, but their motors will be fine. learn2tune.

Final touches are being done as Im typing this. Should be picking it up Wednesday-ish and take some pics and videos for everyone!

post lotsa pics man, congrats