Hey guys and girls. Looking for some opinions from the great automotive minds of these forums. I didn't want to hijack the procharger or turbo thread so I figured I'd start a new one. I've decided to skip the whole stage 2 process and go straight for a more promising build when I get the chance, and that way I can just invest the extra thousand dollars for the stage 2 and install. I've been reading both the turbo thread and the procharger thread like a heorin addict out of smack and I was wondering which one you guys think has more potential. I have to admit I miss the turbo (I'm a former SRT owner) but this procharger build really looks good and the people doing it seem like good guys. Also I figure it would be a good discussion since those two threads seem to be the most dominate recently. If you guys could give me some insight on the pro's and con's of each that would be great. Any information is appreciated. Thanks,

Travis

 

You want ***** to the wall power? Go with a turbo kit and a nice GT30R turbo.

 

LOL yep ***** to the wall works for me. With either I'd have two different setups. A race setup and a daily driving setup. With the turbo I'd go with a boost controller and with the procharger I'd invest in two different pullys.

 

For ***** out power I alwyas liked the superchargers because to me the supercharger is making power all through the rpms while the turbo is making power more through the upper rpms. It all depends really on how much power your wanting to get, 300hp, 500hp, or 1000hp. If your looking for about 500hp, then i would have to say turbo but street attainable car which is around 300-350hp i would say supercharger. Just me 2 cents though.

 

Incorrect. A centrifugal won't be making any real boost ill around 3000rpm and don't make max boost till redline

 

u dont even know what ur talking about, ur probably just repeating what everyone else here says. get a pulley thatll get u 20psi on the procharger/speedmafia kit. bleed off 8 psi so ur engine only ingests 12 lbs <bout 500cfm on the c1>. and bam, instant boost.

make mines the speed mafia pro charger kit! i enjoy exploiting and cheating!

 

theres benefits to both systems... really... procharger has extremely good potential and it's self contained. also the C-1 blower has the ability to push 650 HP. so the most upgrading you'll do is a 120 $ for pullies if you dont go big right off the bat.. it also pushes 1000 cfm at max boost (24 lbs) and has the ability to use a BOV if that is what you're missing if you're a turbo fan.. in all reality in the simplest sense the procharger is a belt driven turbo so it has many of the same ups and downs but it seems easier to get around the downs. It runs extremely cool..

as you can tell my choice is the procharger but the real test will be when chevy tech is done with hit kit and the numbers it puts out.

 

Not really more of a fan of one over the other, and to tell you the truth I've gotten kinda used to the whine of the charger belt. To tell you the truth I'm kinda excited about going to Gatlingburg in a couple weeks just so I can go WOT through the tunnel down there. LOL My overall goal is going to be 300 horsepower for daily driving and 400 for the smaller belt or higher boost setting. I think we're all going to be pleasantly surprised on how strong these engines really are once we get rid of the heaton no matter if it's with the procharger or the turbo.

 

So you're gonna overspin it and bleed it off? How retarded.

The Centrifugal Supercharger
Although the centrifugal supercharger is founded on a technology much newer than either the roots or the twin screw, it was the first supercharger to be successfully applied to automotive applications. Unlike the roots, the centrifugal supercharger is NOT a positive displacement / fixed displacement supercharger because it does not move a fixed volume of air per revolution. The centrifugal supercharger essentially operates like a high speed fan propeller / impeller, sucking air into the center of the supercharger and pushing it to the outside of the rapidly spinning (40,000 + rpm) impeller blades. The air naturally travels to the outside of the blades because of its centrifugal force created by its rotating inertia. At the outside of the blades, a "scroll" is waiting to catch the air molecules. Just before entering the scroll, the air molecules are forced to travel through a venturi, which creates the internal compression. As the air travels around the scroll, the diameter of the scroll increases, which slows the velocity of the air, but further increases its pressure.

The centrifugal supercharger enjoys several advantageous characteristics that make it the most popular supercharger design in the aftermarket world. First, it is simple and reliable because it has very few moving parts - just a few gears and the impeller. Second, the centrifugal supercharger produces very little heat because of its internal compression ratio. It is also small in size and very versatile because it can "free-wheel" and allow the engine to suck air through it or even flow air backwards. For this reason it can be placed anywhere in the intake tract - it can even "blow through" the throttle body, meaning it can be mounted nearly anywhere. It is also the most thermally efficient supercharger, meaning that it produces the lowest discharge temperature.

The only significant disadvantage of the centrifugal supercharger is that it must be spinning at a relatively high speed before it begins to make a significant amount of boost. For this reason, it is not helpful in creating boost (and power) at low engine rpms. Normally the supercharger only begins to create boost at around 3000 rpm, and the boost curve gradually and increasingly rises with engine RPM. Many centrifugal superchargers do not have a self-lubricating oil system, and draw oil from the engine's oil supply. The disadvantage to this is that you must tap the oil pan for the oil return line. However, in doing so, the supercharger becomes virtually maintenance free. Some manufacturers make a "self-contained" centrifugal supercharger that is self-lubricated like roots and twin screw superchargers.

 

x2

If you're making full boost at 2,000rpm on a centrifugal then the wheel will explode by the time you get to redline. There's a reason they have linear boost curves and don't hit full boost until peak RPM. Not to mention your charge air temps will be through the roof.

 

Another good point. Centrifugal's are great on big displacement motor's because making too much power down low would blow the tires off everytime. They're a WASTE on our engines.

Turbo > Procharger every damn time.

 

That's actually from superchargersonline.com

Ignorance? More like plain facts. You're a fool to go with one on a 4cyl engine. Don't like hearing it? Tough ****

 

Well seeing as how a centrifugal is nothing more than an ultra laggy, belt driven, power sapping turbo, I'd have to agree with that conclusion. Linear boost from a supercharger is nice for autocrossing and road racing because the power increase is directly connected to your foot on the gas pedal and is therefore very predictable. But for going as fast as possible in a straight line, the turbo will have the broader powerband with far more low and mid range power.

 

I just have to get in on this
IMO The turbo is for the ultra high power numbers. The only problem for most people when it come to turbos is that they are clueless to installing or tuning a turbo. The new superchargers coming out (Speedmafia/JBJ procharger or TAG twinscrew) are offering people who dont want the turbo hassle or dont have the turbo know how to hang with turbocharging. Also on the same note. The procharger puts out 1000cfm at 24 psi so you will be able to run a lower boost setting and still run high hp numbers.

Now for Lag: The turbo will be the most laggy, but the procharger wont be that laggy.
The twinscrew want have any lag but its also not that big of a supercharger in comparision.
Though it will walk all over that pos m62.

To me it all comes down to what you want. The turbo is all out top end along with the procharger. The twinscrew is going to be more power then the m62 but will not hang with the turbo/procharged guys. And lag is kinda fun any ways.

 

i hate how everyone always says it's going to lag, or instant boost, whatver it is that people say. on a smaller to mid sized turbo there's not going to be much lag if it's set up properly. if you're at the track, when is not having "instant" boost going to be an issue? only on the launch. when you're going wot and shifting properly your rpms are never going to be in the lower range anyways. so, wouldn't it be a benefit to have a smoother launch instead of crazy wheel hop and tires spinning? and i mean really, how long does it take to get from zero rpms to 3 or 4 thousand in first, an eight of a second? come on.

 

 

I agree with you a bit The difference is in the upper gear shifting to me. For example;
I raced and evo 8. Its turbo is not oversized or anything but evertime he shifted I pulled on him untill he had high boost. And then it seemed even. So the difference is when I shift and get my next gear I have boost the second my foot its the gas unlike the turbo cars that do have to wait. And theres no dount they have to wait.

Also Even a better case: I raced a turbo prelude 2.2L vtec. He only stayed with me when he was in boost. Every time he shifted to the next gear he lost about half a car or so. But again when hes in boost its even. He lost not because it car didnt have the power but because the power was not there like the blowers.

But this my opinion. cobalts are doesnt matter how you do it.

 

not trying to be a dick or anything, but the guy said ***** out power and i agree a turbo would be better for ***** out. i simply said that a supercharger would be better for street use if he was going for about 300-350. if over 500 then yeah turbo but its like this, if somebody is going for ***** out power, they want power in all the rpms. no lag what so ever and as far as ripping the tires up, if your giong ***** out then why would you run stock size tires?? you want the wheels to spin and hop as least as possible. with better motor mounts, traction bars, wheelie bars, big ass slicks, etc you wont have to worry about that. but to me honestly, i always liked superchargers better because the powers there whenever you put your foot into the gas.

 

i agree... but most people don't do those traction mods...

either way, there's no right or wrong, and we can debate this for years and not come up with a right or wrong answer. one is not better than the other, it comes down to preference mostly.

 

Strongly Agree!

 

Also let me add that a large turbo is going to lag but will hold full boost over a set rpm.. say 3500-6500rpm. The Procharger will only make max boost at redline.

I do applaud guys wanting to do a procharger and do something different but for our application it doesn't do much good.

 

I'm definitly a turbo fan. I've owned a couple of both cars that were both modded and I'll stick to my guns with this one. It's just personal preferance. I'll probably keep my car the way it is now cause while it's not fast I can beat up on the ricers and it's a nice daily driver. Since I always have the speed bug I decided to get another GN (or any gbody for that matter to convert to gn drivetrain) and get my fix that way. That 80's el camino down the street from me is just begging me to give it turbo 3.8 power

On a side note I think that the procharger kit (and turbo kits already out) is going to be a great addition to the future of the cobalt community and finally give them some street cred. Our cars have a bad reputation of being slow etc (to me a 3000lb car with under 350whp is slow so mine is a turd haha). Keeping the m62 on is just plain rediculous for anyone who actually wants to go fast. When talking fast I'm talking 400+whp as it takes at least that (coupled with our relatively low curb weight) to get a good name and hang with the fast street cars around here (well at least in my circle ). So keep up the good work everyone and keep pushing the cobalt community. Centri or turbo are both going to get some great #'s

 

ok, i wont be over spinning it, just spinning it faster. my friends did it, and even though his engine is still swallowing the same amount of cfm his vette's track time improved by alot! infact, just about every ls1 guy who's centri charged does it!

how the hell will it be possible to make full boost at 2k rpm with a centri?!?!?

 

Please explain what you're going to be doing. How much boost do you plan on running?

 

Are you saying instead of using a pulley which is correctly sized for your application, you are going to use a pulley which is a few steps smaller (To hit more boost faster) and then clip the boost above a certain amount?

It would seem to me that you would be doing something similar to guys on here that use really small pulleys and then limit boost with HP Tuners. It would create alot of heat depending to what level you are talking about doing that.