Import Tuner Cobalt SS bullsh!t article [Archive]

D4u2s0t

07-22-2007, 09:28 AM

99% of import owners and import magazines think the cobalt is a complete joke. they think it's slow as balls. i'm not saying it's the quickest thing out there, but for what it is it's pretty quick. these magazines are so biased against most domestics, and any import is better in their eyes. they skip past the 0-60 in 5.9 seconds stock, and the ability for a good driver to turn very low 14's.

who remembers that article with the cobalt and like 4 other sport compacts? it was a PERFORMANCE test in a PERFORMANCE magazine... cobalt had the best accleration, best slalom speed, best braking, best handling, etc. but it came in almost last because of a shitty interior and wing. what does that have to do with performance?

people that don't have experience with this car think it's slow because of these magazine reviews, and the fact that it's rated at "205". i told a guy last night that most stockers put down about 215whp or so and he laughed in my face.

domestics will always have a bad rap, because the "tuner scene" is mostly import owners that think their car is unstoppable. the guy i ws talking to last night said the cobalt ss is slow as hell, but he ran a 14.2 in his car. a good driver can do that in a cobalt as well.

i wish i was a little less responsible, because he wanted to race me but i don't street race. but the stage 2 balt should walk him easy from a roll. i want to prove a point, but at the same time it's not worth the risk for me anymore. getting older and having priorities sucks!! :lol:

granted, it's not the fastest thing in the world, but people overlook everything just because they read an article, or looked around online.

RollOver360

07-22-2007, 12:11 PM

That a bunch of BS... lets go beat there ricer a$$es. Everyone should all write a letter to the editor and bitch them out, also providing dynos and timeslips to show them wuts up with the ss/sc cobalt scene. Stupid bitches...

later

Onyxd04Redline

07-22-2007, 12:25 PM

God do some of you whine. It's a magazine. Who cares

braddddddd991

07-22-2007, 12:36 PM

better for us

AWDstylez

07-22-2007, 12:41 PM

:thumbsup: to Import Tuner for telling it like it is. Maybe GM will get with it the next time around.

Blood Lucky Picnic

07-22-2007, 12:47 PM

Silly Imports.

Jackalope

07-22-2007, 01:07 PM

Uh oh the trolls are coming out.

Blurred Vision

07-22-2007, 01:10 PM

Sounds like were going out like the SRT4 Neons, and GTO's. I partially agree with the artical, but not word for word yes they are an alternative to the Civic Si and MazdaSpeed's, that why GM made them to appeal to that market, thanks to the fucking fast and the furious movies. We all know that there are so many thing that could be better on these cars, pistons, controll arm bushings, trannys, turbo instead of eaton m62, ext ext. But it seam when someone says something bad about them we over look these details, I'd rather the dumb import guys think they are discontinuing them because of spoiler, than the fact they have so many weak links. i mean shit I'm on my 3rd motor and 2nd tranny.

Onyxd04Redline

07-22-2007, 01:28 PM

GM only fucked up a few things on our cars...

1. LSD should have been standard
2. We should have had 8:1 compression and an M90
3. The final drive ratio is WAY to short for our torque. Should have given us a 3.53:1{9-3} instead of the 4.05:1
4. 42lb injectors
5. Return Line fuel system

R&C_rallySS

07-22-2007, 01:36 PM

Fuck that article, I have a all GMP Cobalt under warnity running 13.6s @ 108, and with my weight reduction and drag radials should put me into the high 12s. That is alot faster then any other car with all of the same comapnies mods aka all GMP. Lets see a Honda Civic or any other car for that matter do it. Only car I can think of would be a SRT-4 with all Mopar, those are quick as shit! I just think the foreign aka imports are feeling a little intimadated with the new American tunners.

GM only fucked up a few things on our cars...

1. LSD should have been standard
2. We should have had 8:1 compression and an M90
3. The final drive ratio is WAY to short for our torque. Should have given us a 3.53:1{9-3} instead of the 4.05:1
4. 42lb injectors
5. Return Line fuel system

I could not agree more.

LSD should of been standard.
8:5:1 or around there would give more options for more boost safely.
I also agree, would not of mind seeing a 6-speed option. Or even having the G85 come with 6-speed and Recaro seats instead of LSD and Recaro seats.
Return fuel line FTW!
as for the 42lb injectors A+.

AWDstylez

07-22-2007, 01:38 PM

GM only fucked up a few things on our cars...

1. LSD should have been standard
2. We should have had 9:1 compression and a turbo
3. The final drive ratio is WAY to TALL for our lack of torque. Should have made the gear spacing closer too, 3rd gear is WAY too long. 6 speed would be nice
4. real independant rear suspension
5. Return fuel system
6. a 1,000rpm higher rev limiter

Fixed that for you.

Onyxd04Redline

07-22-2007, 01:45 PM

Fixed that for you.

I like the way you think AWD but that would have driven up the price to around 30K and no one in there right mind would have bought it.

With the changes i proposed the cost would have gone up what a grand.. 1500 at the most.

Video2402

07-22-2007, 01:53 PM

interesting

Scythe_Snake

07-22-2007, 01:53 PM

used to buy that mag,I have not been able to pick it up for a year now,cause they are so import biased

Guys, SueprStreet did this a while ago. Send them a bunch of mail and call them on their BS. I like how they enjoy saying how 'fast' the civic Si is, yet its slower than the balt.

Anywho, send them e-mails and let them know how stupid they are. I didn't read the article, otherwise I would have to. Import Tuner is the worst magazine in the world. They only talk about imports and how the same civic Si they ha din their last month is cool. I only like "Performance Auto And Sound" "Sport Compact Car" and "Modified Mag" they have variety and are unbiased.

Go on import tuner's site, post the link the the article,a nd a e-mail address where we can send our hate mail to them. I definitely will.

AWDstylez

07-22-2007, 01:54 PM

I heard that turbo Ecotec Saabs use a 6 speed that could have been used in the RL/SS and I've driven a few and they're very quick cars (definately faster than the RL). I'm sure the RL would be nearly as fast with the same transmission. Any reason GM didn't use what they already had? I can't see that costing too much extra.

Area47

07-22-2007, 01:56 PM

Fixed that for you.

going to have to agree.

circle gets the square

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 02:03 PM

I know, I WAS a pretty faithful buyer of that magazine, UNTIL this issue. When I saw that completely import-biased article, I decided to stop. Primedia sucks. Quicker than a Civic, so I don't see where they get off calling the wing tacky. Have they SEEN Evos or STi's? Those wings are ri-goddamn-diculous.

AWDstylez

07-22-2007, 02:08 PM

Those wings are ri-goddamn-diculous.

And unlike the Cobalt wing, fully functional and nessesary.

Scythe_Snake

07-22-2007, 02:11 PM

If they ever come out with an SS/TC, I'll rebadge my car with the supercharged badges, and dedicate its life to raping and pillaging the gay sibling of the SS/SC :guns:

+ Rep for that comment! I hope you do it too! After I get my ss/sc I plan on doing the same thing. :lol:

I'm glad chevy is discontiuing the ss/sc that means 1 of 2 things should happen. Either the value of the ss/sc should go up sence it was only produced for 3 years, or that claiming limon on them shouldn't be too hard. I could careless about the articals comments since it did mention the fact that the ss/sc kicked the skyline, supra, evo, sti, ext exts asses in the time attack thats all they needed to say.

Wow, the value of the ss/sc will NOT go up.

That a bunch of BS... lets go beat there ricer a$$es. Everyone should all write a letter to the editor and bitch them out, also providing dynos and timeslips to show them wuts up with the ss/sc cobalt scene. Stupid bitches...

later

x2!!

:thumbsup: to Import Tuner for telling it like it is. Maybe GM will get with it the next time around.

Wow, you seem to have a lot of problems with the cobalt and its abilities. Import tuner didn't say one correct thing in that article aside from its name. From its price, its some of the best bang for buck you can get. Dynoing stock at 215ish, is excellent. Any higher and the price would have jumped a bit.

And there seems to be too much turbo loving here. :lol: Yes turbos are more efficient and blah blah blah. Lets keep the SC name people. forget turboing. :lol:

PS I agree with the standard LSD!

HickOverLOrd

07-22-2007, 02:12 PM

And unlike the Cobalt wing, fully functional and nessesary.

Wouldnt say necessary. Not sure about Evo's but plenty of STi guys have removed the Wing and felt hardly any diffrence at High speeds.

Scythe_Snake

07-22-2007, 02:14 PM

And unlike the Cobalt wing, fully functional and nessesary.

Then why do some STI's come with the normal WRX wings on them? Why do so many take them off (both Evo and STI). The Evo's wing I can see being functional, not the STI's.

NinjaHampster

07-22-2007, 02:21 PM

Hence the name IMPORT tuner of course there going to give our cars a bad rep. now if only we had a DOMESTIC tuner things would acctually get a decent review

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 02:22 PM

Wouldnt say necessary. Not sure about Evo's but plenty of STi guys have removed the Wing and felt hardly any diffrence at High speeds.

Exactly. plenty of Evos here without them, and they seem to be doing just fine. Personally, I hate wings. Big or small, they're all tacky and unnecessary to me, unless they're on an F1 or GT2 car.

Not to mention: their pages are chock full of full-page body kit ads on lime-green Del Sols excessively-vinyled RSX (note: i have removed my hood pictured below--it cooled my car off well, but it blocked my vision, it was annoying, and started cracking excessively from vibration, not to mention attracted every Honda/Japanese fanboi in a 10-block radius: I have a 'baby on board' sticker for a reason. I have a 3-month old son and street racing is for retards who have seen F&F wayy too many times) . They even have a section called power pages. The last two featured cars were 190-something horsepower! Not my definition of power. They finally made over 200 after 3-5K in modifications. Man, fvck Import Tuner and their biased magazine. They won't get a dime from me.

HickOverLOrd

07-22-2007, 02:27 PM

I know, I should of clarified. When I lived in vegas and talked to all the Flat 4 guys out there, most of the STi took off the wing just because they liked it better to sell to the all the WRX guys...lol. Im just saying though, they never felt any differnce without the wing for daily driving.

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 02:30 PM

We RAPE Subarus at 100mph or over, according to some bagger-boy at the local grocery store who owns an STi. Could be tainted information though, he was kind of young; not sure he knew what he was talking about. So yeah...i guess that sentence pretty much doesn't mean jack hehe.

Anyway, I've always been about American nameplates (yes, I know I have a German engine and Swedish transmission), you'll never see me dumping my load over a Japanese car. Just way overrated to me. Sure, some are fantastic (Evo MR, 1st gen 3000GT VR4, Supra RZ, Skyline Nur), but most aren't. Crappy econoboxes with a large fanbase. Granted, I know my car's an econobox too, but at least I KNOW that and don't pass it off as the fastest car in the history of the world. /end rant :)

Area47

07-22-2007, 02:40 PM

Most SS/SCs don't even trap 100mph and you just got done saying you don't street race, so what does it matter what happens after 100mph??

apparently the magical vortex mod that he has opens a worm hole, or a small right in the space time continum. and it zips forward like a vtec whielding dark knight. then the underpants gnomes come out of no where, and give you a wedgie.

hi, it's a magazine. get used to it. you bought the car because you like it. not what some clearly biased honda magazine has to say.

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 02:41 PM

I don't drag race, so I don't even know what trap means. I'm telling you what the guy who HAS an STi said. He street races, I don't. You're just trying to start shit.

BTW, there's a LOT more kinds of racing than drag racing. It may be the most popular, but it's not the only kind. I rarely see above 50mph on a track, because it's a technical kind of sport.

http://www.scca.org

Scythe_Snake

07-22-2007, 02:45 PM

Wait... you guys are bitching that a magazine named "IMPORT TUNER" is biased??? OH NOEEZZSZZ!:rolleyes:

The EVO RS comes without a wing, and only the STI limited that is marketed to the more luxury minded than performence minded cliental has a different wing on it. How can the EVOs be functional but not the STI??? That makes no sense.

Wings help with more than high speeds.

AHAHAHHAHA, yeah ooooooook. :lol::nuts: Tears? Jeah right.

Most magazines are baised towards the majority and can't say a good thing about a cars or parts that aren't from Europe or Asia. I hear a civic Si owner the 1998 coupe version,t ell a friend of mine with a ss/sc that he will rape his american piece of shit anyday. Just without even knowing what car it was, just saw a chevy badge on it.

Secondly, no, read what I said. I said that people TAKE THEM OFF. The STI's wing doesn't seem to be performance orientated. It seems like a large rectangle/square of metal/fiberglass and that just threw it ontop to look cool. I am most likely wrong about this as well. But, continuing, the Evo's wing looks like some thought was put into it.

Also, the Evo RS is faster than the STI with or without the wing, I believe.

Yes we know wings help with handling too.

And yes, with stage kits and with a few mods, from a dig...no way in hell, from a roll (I know, not accurate all the time, but it does happen), I would beg to differ. And a stage 2 with a few bolt ons could keep up with an STI/EVO i thought, at least within a car.

Speaking of which, everyone who wants to give import tuner a piece fo your mind, here is the link:

http://www.importtuner.com/contactus/index.html

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 02:47 PM

Cool, Snake--thanks for the linkage. :)

NinjaHampster

07-22-2007, 02:49 PM

oh shit its on like donkey kong

Scythe_Snake

07-22-2007, 02:51 PM

Cool, Snake--thanks for the linkage. :)

No problem. I sent my comment to the comments/feedback. Perhaps I should send it to the editor as well?

oh shit its on like donkey kong

"Can he race?! You know what DK stands for?"

"....Donkey Kong?"

"...Drift king"

:lol::lol:

aja342

07-22-2007, 02:54 PM

And unlike the Cobalt wing, fully functional and nessesary.

your not serious are you?

Scythe_Snake

07-22-2007, 03:04 PM

Have your read this forum??? I have seen tons of comments where people don't race Hondas anymore, like their stock Cobalt could beat every Honda in the world. I dislike hypocrisy.

YOU READ WHAT YOU SAID, "Then why do some STI's come with the normal WRX wings on them?" They don't! The only STIs that don't have the STI wings are the STI limiteds, and I explained why. The wings are there for rallying and yes you are wrong.

Driver's race.

We? You just got done saying the STI's wing doesn't seem to be performance oriented.

My bad, I forget you guys "stock from a roll are 13 second cars." :rolleyes::nuts:

God+1 or whatever you decide to call yourself now, you're a complete ass. You attempt to beat people down and legitimately try to verbally absue them. But whatever, do what you want. I've done nothing to merit you doing that. Back on topic:

You take a few people's ways, and put them on everyone. There are some asshole SS/SC owners, a bunch of them, yes, I know. There are asshole owners in every platform, you should know by personal experience.

I know what I said. Then can you pelase tell me why there is a blue STI at the local dealership, not a STI limited, btw, with less than 100 miles on it, with a low wing on it? It seems to be a 2006 WRX STI with the matching blue interior. *gasps* Does that mean it came like that?

And I don't mind admitting that I was wrong about it, I don't know a lot about Evos and STI's, I just respect them (A whole lot) and their owners.

I was speaking more on wings in general, I had the Evo's wing in mind when I said that. but, you have the car, you obviously know more about it than I do. If the wing helps with performance, then it does. I was wrong.

Did everyopne hear that? I just said I was wrong, like I am rather often, as I am still learning. I WAS WRONG EVERYONE. Just wanted to make sure the world knows this.

I've always heard Evo owners saying stock for stock the Evo is faster. I was regurgitating what I had heard from numerous people. I like the STI's more, myself though.

And did you not read what I just said? I said, roll racing is inaccurate and all that stuff, but, AGAIN, it does happen and always will. And I just said form a dig, no way in hell would a SS/SC keep up with an impreza.

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 03:09 PM

^^ I've seen gobs of them here too, I'm pretty sure you can order them with out the larger wing. Saw a blue one yesterday, in fact. His car was pretty new and he was checking out a used BMW at the local used European lot. :)

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 03:11 PM

That could be the case: perhaps they swapped them out. I dunno. I took my wing off because i disliked it, they could have swapped theirs too for the same reasons, to save some weight, or be a bit less visible to police. :)

xravenwingsx

07-22-2007, 03:14 PM

Ahhhhh, then that makes sense. :) Thanks for the clarification, Wozzle

Scythe_Snake

07-22-2007, 03:19 PM

Most of my comments were not directed at you and I am guessing you picked up on that by your statements. So don't get too riled up if what I say doesn't apply to YOU because it does have some justification.

About STI's coming with the WRX wing, they are used. So ionno if we just had a lost in translation of "what a car comes with" means.:confused:

About roll racing, that comment was NOT directed at YOU.

Then my apologies. Just with how you word it, you seem to be focusing it JUST on me. Sorry about getting upset.

The STI is right by my job (zoo.) I stop there everyday as I have a friend there who I talk shit with and try to learn some from him. I was there the thing came off the truck, and it has a low profile wing. It only has 100miles on it from driving it around the lot.

aja342

07-22-2007, 03:28 PM

A full interior street car driving around under 100mph does not benifit from a wing one bit. If you think the down force those wings provide make any difference to the cars handleing then I am sorry you got suckered.

Now if there was not an extra 150+lbs of weight in the car then yeah a proplerly set up wing would help. Rear wings help ease the transition of on and off throttle while entering corners and to keep the car tracking straight on long straightaways. The wings offered on 99% of cars today are there for looks, not performance.

I have driven on the Autobahn for over 20 min at over 100MHP with no rear wing.Driven at 150+ for 2 min with no wing, been over 160 on back roads with no wing. They are not needed on street cars

aja342

07-22-2007, 03:45 PM

I guess the STI and EVO's wings fall into that 1%. And if you think they don't why do they use them in RALLY races?

So what you are saying is that the wing you have on your car is the same one they use for the rally cars, and that you do not have an interior and ream every corner all out sideways going for broke. If you have a need to drive like this then yeah a wing might help. If not, then sheading some weight and getting some good tires will help you get to the point were you might even need a wing.

aja342

07-22-2007, 04:00 PM

Sounds like a plan. This is the kinda stuff that I like.

People laugh at Honda CRX with wings but if there was ever a car that needed it this was it. While driving an American spec CRX in germany my friend told me to stop being a wuss and open it up. I had been driving a Jaguar XJS and was used to the way it felt (I was also an inexperienced driver) I cam into a corner a lil too hot and as I let off the gas abruptly it felt like the rear end came off the ground. Mid corner the rear end started to come around (somthing I had never knew possible with a FWD car). I imagin with a lil more downforce in the rear it would not of been so bad as fast as we were going. This car was a death trap with a gutted interior and a plastic "PEP Boys" style passenger seat and was later taken off the road by the German inspectors for being "unsafe".

What tires come on the STIs. Secificly tred ware rating and heat rating. Compounds are just as important as speed rating.

D4u2s0t

07-22-2007, 04:35 PM

It was not a peformance only test and it is not a performance only magazine.
.

yes it was. you must be thinking of a different review. it was totally a performance test. in another article, the ss/sc's acceleration was "decent", but the civic si's powertrain was a hell of a lot of car :lol:

D4u2s0t

07-22-2007, 04:48 PM

i don't remember, it was a long time ago... i'll see if i could find it... but it was strictly performance tests... they didn't mention interior on any of the other cars...

aja342

07-22-2007, 04:59 PM

Look for the Car and Driver: Lightning Lap 1.

Realy puts into perspective of Cobalt vs. Civic Si performance wise (not to mention the Mustang GT and GTI).

Remeber thou. On the track and on the street are 2 differnt things. A Cobalt SS/SC is not going to beat a Mustang GT on the street (at least not often).....but it will crush a Civic Si even worse.

AWDstylez

07-22-2007, 05:01 PM

Import Tuner is a joke, that magazine sucks balls. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I'm just agreeing with them all but outright bashing GM for screwing up what could have been a nicer looking SRT-4 alternative and turning it into the laughing stock of the tuning community. Instead of another low priced car that makes big power for little money, you have a low priced car that although is relatively quick for its class stock, can't keep up with anything once you throw a few bolt ons into the mix.

Take a hint from Mazda that upped it's game with the new Mazdaspeed3. It's pretty quick stock and it's a turbo and fuel away from big power, just like an SRT, Evo, STi, etc. They got it right. GM got it wrong.

your not serious are you?

Very serious actually.

CamaroMuscleZ28

07-22-2007, 06:57 PM

The SS/SC, while it could have benefited from a turbo, is still a great car IMO. The fact is there are limits for FWD I-4 cars when it comes to drag racing. Yes theres plenty of FWD drag cars out there, it could be done no denying that, but for practicle reasons it isnt the best idea. If you want an all out drag cobalt, i think its better to get a base 2.2 and build it out of the GMPP book with a turbo. thats just my opinion.
What the SS/SC is is a nice cheap form of speed and I honestly have more fun with the 'balt than my Z28's. I took the SS out on a road track and it was an absolute blast. the supercharger was always in its power range, the car handled pretty well for stock. The SS/SC seems to be a great autoX/ road racer. They did quite well in Grand Am racing last year winning 5 races I believe. Taking that away from teams that have been doing it for years in the Mazda and Acura camps thats quite a feat.
I don't really think its fair to compare the Evo and STi to the SS/SC, they're AWD turbo cars that are more expensive. However, if you were to make a comparison to then you have to bring up that the SS/SC took Time Attack last year against such competition and came within a second of the overall fastest time in the event ever. IT was a stage 2 with Nitrious if I recall and full suspension. THe Evo's, STi's and even skylines were also modified.
Now I love Evo's and STi's but I should hope that for the extra money they do out handle the SS/SC.
Comparing the SRT-4 is fair though. Sure its a faster car, and I believe it was cheaper. But it comes down to person preference. The SS/SC outhandles it and is an overall nicer car.
Do I wish the SS/SC was a SS/Turbo... yes, but to call it the laughing stock of the tuner community is a joke.

D4u2s0t

07-22-2007, 07:04 PM

Jackalope

07-22-2007, 07:54 PM

Wozzle is Wasey so everything he says is null and void due to his stupidity level being off the charts. Please disregard everything he has accidently said since he is a waste of ban width. He has also been, ONCE AGAIN, banned for his child like temper and remarks toward the other members.

Thank you and continue Bashing IMPORT TUNER.

AWDstylez

07-22-2007, 08:43 PM

Let's redirect to bashing C&D and Motor Trend for their stupid reviews and remarks like this:

you must be thinking of a different review. it was totally a performance test. in another article, the ss/sc's acceleration was "decent", but the civic si's powertrain was a hell of a lot of car

Who actually listens to these moronic magazines? I happened to be reading Motor Trend while waiting to get my hair cut the other day. They had a comparison of, I think, the G37 and BMW 335. The G37 (or whatever Infiniti it was) won every performance test, was like $8,000 cheaper, was noted as having the better interior, but MT called the BMW the winner because of some stupid remark like "it had that special something". Totally blew my mind and put in perspective what a joke automotive magazines are. This was also repeated in other articles I've since read.

NinjaHampster

07-22-2007, 08:58 PM

the only car magazine i read now is PROJECT car or whatever but they only have 1 issue out right now

D4u2s0t

07-22-2007, 09:37 PM

Let's redirect to bashing C&D and Motor Trend for their stupid reviews and remarks like this:

Who actually listens to these moronic magazines? I happened to be reading Motor Trend while waiting to get my hair cut the other day. They had a comparison of, I think, the G37 and BMW 335. The G37 (or whatever Infiniti it was) won every performance test, was like $8,000 cheaper, was noted as having the better interior, but MT called the BMW the winner because of some stupid remark like "it had that special something". Totally blew my mind and put in perspective what a joke automotive magazines are. This was also repeated in other articles I've since read.

agreed... i picked tht one up today, and couldn't believe some of the horse shit they put in there..

cyberf128

07-22-2007, 10:02 PM

If they ever come out with an SS/TC, I'll rebadge my car with the supercharged badges, and dedicate its life to raping and pillaging the gay sibling of the SS/SC :guns:

"Under the hood of the Red Line is a turbocharged Ecotec 2.0-liter inline-4, which supplants the Sky roadster's normally aspirated 2.4-liter. The turbo Ecotec is GM's first engine with direct fuel injection that's been offered in the United States. With 260 horsepower at its command, the turbo Ecotec produces 130 hp per liter, giving it the distinction of the highest specific output of any GM engine to date."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=120053

Im thinking this is only a test for the turbos, next it will be in the balts.

madeinUSA

07-22-2007, 11:33 PM

GM did not get it wrong! The only thing wrong is most people believe "perception is reality". If you drive this car hard on a road course you will see the light...my driving instructor was blown away by the handling,braking,acceleration of my completely stock car (btw he has raced a BMW in the Grand Am ST series). He could not get over how well balanced& rigid the car is. I kinda like my wing when trail braking/corning @ 90 + MPH...It does supply down force & any is good @ that speed. I have run 100.39mph in 1/4 mile completely stock (as several other members have& THE CARS ARE NOT MADE FOR DRAG RACING!!), get right @ 30 mpg, & contary to the "perception" I have had 0 (zero) problems with my American car...Magazines& the media= SOMEONE HAS AN AGENDA!!!

AWDstylez

07-22-2007, 11:44 PM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

Stock brakes are solid, I'll give you that. They survive auto-xing without an issue. But the car is an understeering mess that can't put power down when it needs to.

L.P.

07-23-2007, 12:02 AM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

Stock brakes are solid, I'll give you that. They survive auto-xing without an issue. But the car is an understeering mess that can't put power down when it needs to.

I have to beg to differ about the 30mpg thing...on the highway I have gotten 30mpg and I have stage 2, 2.9" pulley, and full exhaust.

madeinUSA

07-23-2007, 12:07 AM

aja342

07-23-2007, 02:42 AM

sscobaltscZ06

07-23-2007, 07:13 AM

I have to beg to differ about the 30mpg thing...on the highway I have gotten 30mpg and I have stage 2, 2.9" pulley, and full exhaust.
We easily get 32-34 mpg at 65 mph on trips not mashing throttle all the time (and thats not the dic estimate but actual gas pump gallons/mileage calculations the right way)

InfinityzeN

07-23-2007, 07:50 AM

I'm ~35mph cruising for a couple hundred miles down the interstate.

Acidangel_5.0

07-23-2007, 07:56 AM

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/xearix/wuterml0n.jpg

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 10:30 AM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

Stock brakes are solid, I'll give you that. They survive auto-xing without an issue. But the car is an understeering mess that can't put power down when it needs to.

I easily get over 30mpg on the highway.

Why would you guys get worked up over import tuner. The only people that read that are high school kids.

Acidangel_5.0

07-23-2007, 10:40 AM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

Stock brakes are solid, I'll give you that. They survive auto-xing without an issue. But the car is an understeering mess that can't put power down when it needs to.

for a guy that act like he knows his shit.. you make alot of stupid ass comments.. do some research before blowing smoke out your ass.:nono:

AWDstylez

07-23-2007, 11:45 AM

for a guy that act like he knows his shit.. you make alot of stupid ass comments.. do some research before blowing smoke out your ass.:nono:

Who spends all their time cruising 55mph down the highway? The around town gas mileage is horrendous which totally negates the decent, low speed highway cruise mileage (who drives under 75mph on the highway anyway?).

Onyxd04Redline

07-23-2007, 11:46 AM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

Stock brakes are solid, I'll give you that. They survive auto-xing without an issue. But the car is an understeering mess that can't put power down when it needs to.

Averaged 29mpg on my trip from Pa to Az with the cruise set on 75. Would have been more but i need an alignment.

AWDstylez

07-23-2007, 11:50 AM

If this car is an understearing mess then you better stay away from the new civic. It feels like my grandmothers caravan. The Cobalt can be pushed harder into tight turns more than any FWD car I have driven (includding the 06 Si) and is more perdictable in long sweeping turns while on the gas then many RWDs.

Rear independednt suspension would of made this car amazing and added a lil more weight to the back. But I gess GM decided it was not worth the added cost....bums.

You're right, the new Si is an even bigger joke, but that wouldn't be my benchmark car anyway.

Try driving an ITR, GSR, EK Si, any EG, Mini S, Celica GT-S (<best FWD by far). Those are excellent handling FWD cars. Expand your horizons and take them for a drive if you ever get the chance. It will knock the Cobalt down a few hundred rungs on your mental ladder. From my driving experience. These things are good for amatuer drivers and people learning because they're very safe (couldn't oversteer if you tired) and conservative. Just about anyone could jump in and pull a decent lap. However, safe and conservative does not equal fast.

Onyxd04Redline

07-23-2007, 11:56 AM

GSoccer24

07-23-2007, 12:04 PM

that's totally something i would write about the car...they say it's 'rated' at 205, they're not claiming that's what it actually puts out...the wing is tacky...and the performance doesn't blow away other cars in it's class, its maybe one under par for the course. i have to agree with them and how it was written.

aja342

07-23-2007, 12:18 PM

You're right, the new Si is an even bigger joke, but that wouldn't be my benchmark car anyway.

Try driving an ITR, GSR, EK Si, any EG, Mini S, Celica GT-S (<best FWD by far). Those are excellent handling FWD cars. Expand your horizons and take them for a drive if you ever get the chance. It will knock the Cobalt down a few hundred rungs on your mental ladder. From my driving experience. These things are good for amatuer drivers and people learning because they're very safe (couldn't oversteer if you tired) and conservative. Just about anyone could jump in and pull a decent lap. However, safe and conservative does not equal fast.

Driven a Celica GT-s back to back with the Cobalt. The Cobalt is so much better it is stupid. The only reason they seem to handle well is because of the lack of power. Less torque steer only for shear lack of torque does not a fast car make. With more power, your "conservitive" understeer turns into plowing though a trun right into the gravel. If you want to expand your horizon, try an Integra (I could not figure out why it was so fun....it pissed me off).

roccityroller

07-23-2007, 12:21 PM

Area47

07-23-2007, 01:01 PM

i had a 2k celica gts.
the cobalt handles better.

i averaged 32 mpg cruizing at 85 mph over the weekend on a small 100 mile trip each way.

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 02:01 PM

Im sorry guys, i have to agree, for once import tuner was right. Our cars are not anything special by any means. Yea they're great cars for what they are but in the realm of sport compacts today they were never going to be anything special. They will never compete with the support for the srt-4, si's, GTi's, wrx's, evo's, etc. Sorry, sometimes you just have to deal with the fact that we don't drive god's gift to cars.

We do compete with SIs, and everything else you mentioned but the SRT starts at a higher price then our cars. Hell the WRX and GTI come in at 28k plus with full options. The EVOs base is 30k (unless you get the RS, which no one does). I'm sorry but if you put this car in perspective it's a damn good car for the money. I paid 20090$ OTD for my car and other then the SRT-4 there isn't anything in the sport compact market faster for that price.

No this car is not Gods gift to cars, but no one here is saying it is. That's something the domestic haters try to put in our mouths. The only people who don't give the SS/SC any credit are the domestic haters, hmm like a few of you in this thread.

The people who do think this car is God's gift have never driven anything better and you know what, the domestic haters in this thread never have either. The internet is pathetic sometimes because douchebags are a dime a dozen here and there are like 4 people who have an open mind (I'm one of them so that makes three others lol).

Seriously this car is not perfect but for the price it's just fine. The problem is all these stupid kids, especially the import guys want 400hp LS1 slayers that run 12s all day. Well guess what? Unless you buy an SRT-4 which mods cheap and is cheap you aren't going to do that for less then 30k. Now either that's buying a 30k dollar car ala evo or sti or buying a cheaper car and modding it, but either way the cost is going to add up unless you buy used.

The problem here at cobaltss.net is everyone are a bunch of fucking sheep and just blindly follow someone. If people would get off their ass an try to lead then this car would advance and gain some respect, but you'd all rather follow and stick small ass pulleys on your supercharger which will max it out and melt down the #4 because our fuel system needs a fix that no one wants to attempt.

Before you go calling me a hypocrit for not doing it myself realize that I didn't buy this car to go racing with. I bought it to have a fun daily driver and it is just that. The problems with this car are not hard to fix, it's just someone is always waiting for it to be done for them. I've honestly never seen a community of car guys who just sits back and waits for someone to do it first. You want turbo? Go build a kit, if you really immersed yourself in learning you could have the knowledge to do it well and right by Christmas. That's quicker the hahn or any other company will have a decent kit by. 2.2 guys you want a turbo? Oh wait you have no tuning? Get a piggy back, it's not perfect but it will work.

Cliff notes: kiss my ass you import and domestic fanboys, your car may be faster then mine but you will never get the satisfaction from your car that I get in mine because I'm not worried about my rep, street racing, or if someone is faster then me. You will always be worried about whose coming up behind you and who is quicker. Therefor you will continue your cycle of ripping on others, my cars better then car x, and all that other high school bullshit. If the sport compact community would just grow up it would be a good place.

N8s07SS

07-23-2007, 02:05 PM

^^Great post IMADreamer. Nice to know there are other level-headed people out there. Although, I'm guessing you're probably at least 25.

GSoccer24

07-23-2007, 02:09 PM

^^Great post IMADreamer. Nice to know there are other level-headed people out there. Although, I'm guessing you're probably at least 25.

i agree. LMAO at the last comment, +rep for you for keeping it real. (i'm 26.)

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 02:13 PM

I'm 26. Thanks guys.

SS07

07-23-2007, 02:33 PM

I hate ricer fags... Seriously they think anything from america is shit...

One question for any jap fan

name one stock on stock car that can beat a corvette Z06 or Shelby GT500 from japan.

Onyxd04Redline

07-23-2007, 02:37 PM

I hate ricer fags... Seriously they think anything from america is shit...

One question for any jap fan

name one stock on stock car that can beat a corvette Z06 or Shelby GT500 from japan.

In build quality? All of them :lol:

Acidangel_5.0

07-23-2007, 02:44 PM

We do compete with SIs, and everything else you mentioned but the SRT starts at a higher price then our cars. Hell the WRX and GTI come in at 28k plus with full options. The EVOs base is 30k (unless you get the RS, which no one does). I'm sorry but if you put this car in perspective it's a damn good car for the money. I paid 20090$ OTD for my car and other then the SRT-4 there isn't anything in the sport compact market faster for that price.

No this car is not Gods gift to cars, but no one here is saying it is. That's something the domestic haters try to put in our mouths. The only people who don't give the SS/SC any credit are the domestic haters, hmm like a few of you in this thread.

The people who do think this car is God's gift have never driven anything better and you know what, the domestic haters in this thread never have either. The internet is pathetic sometimes because douchebags are a dime a dozen here and there are like 4 people who have an open mind (I'm one of them so that makes three others lol).

Seriously this car is not perfect but for the price it's just fine. The problem is all these stupid kids, especially the import guys want 400hp LS1 slayers that run 12s all day. Well guess what? Unless you buy an SRT-4 which mods cheap and is cheap you aren't going to do that for less then 30k. Now either that's buying a 30k dollar car ala evo or sti or buying a cheaper car and modding it, but either way the cost is going to add up unless you buy used.

The problem here at cobaltss.net is everyone are a bunch of fucking sheep and just blindly follow someone. If people would get off their ass an try to lead then this car would advance and gain some respect, but you'd all rather follow and stick small ass pulleys on your supercharger which will max it out and melt down the #4 because our fuel system needs a fix that no one wants to attempt.

Before you go calling me a hypocrit for not doing it myself realize that I didn't buy this car to go racing with. I bought it to have a fun daily driver and it is just that. The problems with this car are not hard to fix, it's just someone is always waiting for it to be done for them. I've honestly never seen a community of car guys who just sits back and waits for someone to do it first. You want turbo? Go build a kit, if you really immersed yourself in learning you could have the knowledge to do it well and right by Christmas. That's quicker the hahn or any other company will have a decent kit by. 2.2 guys you want a turbo? Oh wait you have no tuning? Get a piggy back, it's not perfect but it will work.

Cliff notes: kiss my ass you import and domestic fanboys, your car may be faster then mine but you will never get the satisfaction from your car that I get in mine because I'm not worried about my rep, street racing, or if someone is faster then me. You will always be worried about whose coming up behind you and who is quicker. Therefor you will continue your cycle of ripping on others, my cars better then car x, and all that other high school bullshit. If the sport compact community would just grow up it would be a good place.

+1 man.. finally somebody with sense .. i been screaming this for ages and i get flamed for it.. 10.5:1.. lol what a joke.. people are finally starting to wise up a little

N8s07SS

07-23-2007, 02:47 PM

In build quality? All of them :lol:

I seriously hope you don't really believe that. Those cars are hand built.

SS07

07-23-2007, 03:02 PM

People always say how great the build quality of japaese cars are but...

all my friends have imports, 3 integras, a corolla, and an s15

all the three integras always have problems, the corolla is the chepest POS ive ever ridden in and the s15, constantly has valve clatter and piston slap.

like I said before I used to work at scion of richardson, those cars were a very shitty quality.

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 03:08 PM

+1 man.. finally somebody with sense .. i been screaming this for ages and i get flamed for it.. 10.5:1.. lol what a joke.. people are finally starting to wise up a little

I've been thinking it for a long time. I usually don't say stuff here that will get people fired up because it's not worth arguing with people on the internet but I guess today I had enough. I think this community is pretty sad really, there are only a dozen or so people who even understand cars enough to do more then bolt ons here, but there are a lot of people who overstep their knowledge boundry and mod farther. Then we get people breaking things and the cars rep sufferes because it's never the car owners fault something happened it's always GMs. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't think we've even begun to push the 2.0 motor to the limit, but the problem is no one wants to experiment and see how far we can go. Money is one reason and a valid one, but mainly it's because people here are lazy.

I fully expect to be the first person on the stock motor (meaning no exhaust mods, pulleys, injector, blah blah blah) to run a sub 14 time this fall. This is the first time I've publically stated it on this site but guys like NJHK, and one or two others know what I'm doing because we've discussed it. Like I said before I didn't buy the car to go racing but I fully intend to prove my point that we have overlooked ways to make this car quicker then what people are doing. Don't get me wrong after I've proven my point I will do stage 2 and call it a day, but I know this car has a sub 14 in it with the stock motor.

I'm not going to say any more then that though. You guys that know about cars, know all the factors that make them fast, and really know about the SS/SC can grasp what I'm going to do. Those of you who don't won't care anyway because you wouldn't do what I'm going to do anyway because you are one of the sheep I'm talking about and you probably the think the only way to get a faster car is to add horsepower.

Sorry for another rant, but I'm fired up today after reading this thread. :) Acidangel, I don't always agree with what you say but you always seem to have a good reasoning behind it and you know what you are doing and I respect your posting here. You are one of those dozen or so I am talking about that aren't sheep and have a thirst for knowledge and betterment. It's guys like you Witt, NJHK, and others that keep me coming back here and sifting through the BS that everyone else puts out in hopes that I will gain one more little tidbit of knowlegde about cars.

To everyone else, I'm not talking down to you, I'm just saying what's true. If more people immersed theirself in learning about the theory behind speed rather then just slapping on parts we could make this community into a serious tuner car community as opposed to what it is now, which quite frankly is just another message board on the internet with some info about cars.

SS07

07-23-2007, 03:17 PM

I've been thinking it for a long time. I usually don't say stuff here that will get people fired up because it's not worth arguing with people on the internet but I guess today I had enough. I think this community is pretty sad really, there are only a dozen or so people who even understand cars enough to do more then bolt ons here, but there are a lot of people who overstep their knowledge boundry and mod farther. Then we get people breaking things and the cars rep sufferes because it's never the car owners fault something happened it's always GMs. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't think we've even begun to push the 2.0 motor to the limit, but the problem is no one wants to experiment and see how far we can go. Money is one reason and a valid one, but mainly it's because people here are lazy.

I fully expect to be the first person on the stock motor (meaning no exhaust mods, pulleys, injector, blah blah blah) to run a sub 14 time this fall. This is the first time I've publically stated it on this site but guys like NJHK, and one or two others know what I'm doing because we've discussed it. Like I said before I didn't buy the car to go racing but I fully intend to prove my point that we have overlooked ways to make this car quicker then what people are doing. Don't get me wrong after I've proven my point I will do stage 2 and call it a day, but I know this car has a sub 14 in it with the stock motor.

I'm not going to say any more then that though. You guys that know about cars, know all the factors that make them fast, and really know about the SS/SC can grasp what I'm going to do. Those of you who don't won't care anyway because you wouldn't do what I'm going to do anyway because you are one of the sheep I'm talking about and you probably the think the only way to get a faster car is to add horsepower.

Sorry for another rant, but I'm fired up today after reading this thread. :) Acidangel, I don't always agree with what you say but you always seem to have a good reasoning behind it and you know what you are doing and I respect your posting here. You are one of those dozen or so I am talking about that aren't sheep and have a thirst for knowledge and betterment. It's guys like you Witt, NJHK, and others that keep me coming back here and sifting through the BS that everyone else puts out in hopes that I will gain one more little tidbit of knowlegde about cars.

To everyone else, I'm not talking down to you, I'm just saying what's true. If more people immersed theirself in learning about the theory behind speed rather then just slapping on parts we could make this community into a serious tuner car community as opposed to what it is now, which quite frankly is just another message board on the internet with some info about cars.

WTF are you talking about?! Seriously?! You make this sound like some mystic religion... You must worship the speed gods to get your car to do 13's...lol jk...

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 03:19 PM

I have a statue of Vin Diesel in my bedroom and I rub it's head nightly. He gives me wisdom and shitty one liners to use when I'm racing people. :)

Acidangel_5.0

07-23-2007, 03:37 PM

I've been thinking it for a long time. I usually don't say stuff here that will get people fired up because it's not worth arguing with people on the internet but I guess today I had enough. I think this community is pretty sad really, there are only a dozen or so people who even understand cars enough to do more then bolt ons here, but there are a lot of people who overstep their knowledge boundry and mod farther. Then we get people breaking things and the cars rep sufferes because it's never the car owners fault something happened it's always GMs. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't think we've even begun to push the 2.0 motor to the limit, but the problem is no one wants to experiment and see how far we can go. Money is one reason and a valid one, but mainly it's because people here are lazy.

I fully expect to be the first person on the stock motor (meaning no exhaust mods, pulleys, injector, blah blah blah) to run a sub 14 time this fall. This is the first time I've publically stated it on this site but guys like NJHK, and one or two others know what I'm doing because we've discussed it. Like I said before I didn't buy the car to go racing but I fully intend to prove my point that we have overlooked ways to make this car quicker then what people are doing. Don't get me wrong after I've proven my point I will do stage 2 and call it a day, but I know this car has a sub 14 in it with the stock motor.

I'm not going to say any more then that though. You guys that know about cars, know all the factors that make them fast, and really know about the SS/SC can grasp what I'm going to do. Those of you who don't won't care anyway because you wouldn't do what I'm going to do anyway because you are one of the sheep I'm talking about and you probably the think the only way to get a faster car is to add horsepower.

Sorry for another rant, but I'm fired up today after reading this thread. :) Acidangel, I don't always agree with what you say but you always seem to have a good reasoning behind it and you know what you are doing and I respect your posting here. You are one of those dozen or so I am talking about that aren't sheep and have a thirst for knowledge and betterment. It's guys like you Witt, NJHK, and others that keep me coming back here and sifting through the BS that everyone else puts out in hopes that I will gain one more little tidbit of knowlegde about cars.

To everyone else, I'm not talking down to you, I'm just saying what's true. If more people immersed theirself in learning about the theory behind speed rather then just slapping on parts we could make this community into a serious tuner car community as opposed to what it is now, which quite frankly is just another message board on the internet with some info about cars.

lol, its all good man.. i know i get people fired up easily.. but i just hate seeing stupid stuff posted alot.. granted i come from old school muscle so sometimes i will say something on the opposite end of the spectrum.. but motor math it motor math.. just because something is new aged and non-pushrod.. doesnt mean #s still dont determinte what happens..im still learning and so are others.. but i agree.. we do have way to many sheep and paper racers on this site with absolutly zero real motor knowledge.... good posting man.. well thought out and done! :guns:

Area47

07-23-2007, 04:27 PM

Scythe_Snake

07-23-2007, 05:08 PM

I've been thinking it for a long time. I usually don't say stuff here that will get people fired up because it's not worth arguing with people on the internet but I guess today I had enough. I think this community is pretty sad really, there are only a dozen or so people who even understand cars enough to do more then bolt ons here, but there are a lot of people who overstep their knowledge boundry and mod farther. Then we get people breaking things and the cars rep sufferes because it's never the car owners fault something happened it's always GMs. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't think we've even begun to push the 2.0 motor to the limit, but the problem is no one wants to experiment and see how far we can go. Money is one reason and a valid one, but mainly it's because people here are lazy.

I fully expect to be the first person on the stock motor (meaning no exhaust mods, pulleys, injector, blah blah blah) to run a sub 14 time this fall. This is the first time I've publically stated it on this site but guys like NJHK, and one or two others know what I'm doing because we've discussed it. Like I said before I didn't buy the car to go racing but I fully intend to prove my point that we have overlooked ways to make this car quicker then what people are doing. Don't get me wrong after I've proven my point I will do stage 2 and call it a day, but I know this car has a sub 14 in it with the stock motor.

I'm not going to say any more then that though. You guys that know about cars, know all the factors that make them fast, and really know about the SS/SC can grasp what I'm going to do. Those of you who don't won't care anyway because you wouldn't do what I'm going to do anyway because you are one of the sheep I'm talking about and you probably the think the only way to get a faster car is to add horsepower.

Sorry for another rant, but I'm fired up today after reading this thread. :) Acidangel, I don't always agree with what you say but you always seem to have a good reasoning behind it and you know what you are doing and I respect your posting here. You are one of those dozen or so I am talking about that aren't sheep and have a thirst for knowledge and betterment. It's guys like you Witt, NJHK, and others that keep me coming back here and sifting through the BS that everyone else puts out in hopes that I will gain one more little tidbit of knowlegde about cars.

To everyone else, I'm not talking down to you, I'm just saying what's true. If more people immersed theirself in learning about the theory behind speed rather then just slapping on parts we could make this community into a serious tuner car community as opposed to what it is now, which quite frankly is just another message board on the internet with some info about cars.

Dreamer, you know I have mad respect for you, but the bolded comment isn't all true at all, at least for everyone. I can only speak for me, but, I am still learning. I got into the car scene buy a movie and a video game, so not the best entrance. I am learning still, especially just the concepts and everything about cars and the like. So, some may be a sheep, but some want to do things different, but learn from other's mistakes.

GSoccer24

07-23-2007, 05:42 PM

SS07

07-23-2007, 05:45 PM

r34 z tune.

you said name one, i did. it comes with a warranty from nissan.

:D

I looked on the web, only 20 of these exsist in the world, and prices range above 500k, having said that, show me one stock car from japan that can outrun the saleen S7 twin Turbo.

Note s7 tt is now the faster car in the world as of 2007, it beat the veyron when saleen uped the power to 1000bhp.

Saleen s7 is around the same price and is certainly cooler than a skyline.

www.saleen.com

2006 World’s Fastest Production Car – Saleen S7 Twin Turbo offered at 1000hp.

Saleen/Oreca Race Team drives the S7 race version and captures the fastest lap and takes the victory at Spa, Belgium.

The fastest Saleen to date, the S281 Extreme, goes into production, boasting 550hp.

Saleen Sport Truck S331 is unveiled at 450hp.

Saleen debuts the Saleen / Parnelli Jones Limited Edition Mustang -- a 1970 retro-style Parnelli Jones Boss 302 in a contemporary form, revealing 370hp in a 302 cid V-8, 3-valve engine.

Saleen opens first retail store – “The Saleen Store” – in Irvine, California.

GSoccer24

07-23-2007, 05:54 PM

I looked on the web, only 20 of these exsist in the world, and prices range above 500k, having said that, show me one stock car from japan that can outrun the saleen S7 twin Turbo.

Note s7 tt is now the faster car in the world as of 2007, it beat the veyron when saleen uped the power to 1000bhp.

Saleen s7 is around the same price and is certainly cooler than a skyline.

www.saleen.com

2006 World’s Fastest Production Car – Saleen S7 Twin Turbo offered at 1000hp.

Saleen/Oreca Race Team drives the S7 race version and captures the fastest lap and takes the victory at Spa, Belgium.

The fastest Saleen to date, the S281 Extreme, goes into production, boasting 550hp.

Saleen Sport Truck S331 is unveiled at 450hp.

Saleen debuts the Saleen / Parnelli Jones Limited Edition Mustang -- a 1970 retro-style Parnelli Jones Boss 302 in a contemporary form, revealing 370hp in a 302 cid V-8, 3-valve engine.

Saleen opens first retail store – “The Saleen Store” – in Irvine, California.

are you that teenager on Test Drive Unlimited that saves up all the money to buy the S7 TT as his 1st car then race everyone online and beat them in their Skylines and 350Z's?

AWDstylez

07-23-2007, 06:01 PM

Area47

07-23-2007, 06:06 PM

I looked on the web, only 20 of these exsist in the world, and prices range above 500k, having said that, show me one stock car from japan that can outrun the saleen S7 twin Turbo.

Note s7 tt is now the faster car in the world as of 2007, it beat the veyron when saleen uped the power to 1000bhp.

Saleen s7 is around the same price and is certainly cooler than a skyline.

www.saleen.com

2006 World’s Fastest Production Car – Saleen S7 Twin Turbo offered at 1000hp.

Saleen/Oreca Race Team drives the S7 race version and captures the fastest lap and takes the victory at Spa, Belgium.

The fastest Saleen to date, the S281 Extreme, goes into production, boasting 550hp.

Saleen Sport Truck S331 is unveiled at 450hp.

Saleen debuts the Saleen / Parnelli Jones Limited Edition Mustang -- a 1970 retro-style Parnelli Jones Boss 302 in a contemporary form, revealing 370hp in a 302 cid V-8, 3-valve engine.

Saleen opens first retail store – “The Saleen Store” – in Irvine, California.

so, let me get this right. Mr Domestic is mightier than anything on the face of the earth.

I, myself has respect for anything that is fast.

you just had to up it by bringing in supercars.

thats peachy, you can do that, because it seems you won't live it down if an "import" beats anything domestic.

american cars have won many race titles. anyone who is into cars knows this.
japanese cars have won just as many race titles. anyone who doesn't ride the nuts of the big three would know this as well.

i don't have to go to google to get my answers on which car is faster than the other.

CamaroMuscleZ28

07-23-2007, 06:12 PM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

.

I got 35 MPH on the way back from the track so thats null. And yes, I have driven better cars. My 96 Z/28 is built for road racing and of course its faster and handles better. But that's a V-8 car with alot of work into it. I've also driven GS-R's, Si's, vettes and even DSM's. I never claimed the SS/SC was a road racing king, but it does VERY well IMO stock. It could benefit from a few things, sure. But its a $23k car, and GMs first real entry into modern sport compacts.

Yes, the Mazda speed 3 is a very very nice car. The Si Civic is the class leader still in terms of what you measure your car to. Evo's and STi's aren't in the same class, and for the extra money you had better get that extra performance. If you're going to play that game then compare a Z51 equipped vette to them and see the excuses fly then.

Point is the SS/SC is not a joke in the sport compact market. It's not godly either, but there really isnt a dominant car in that class.

SS4ME

07-23-2007, 06:12 PM

You spent your hard earned money on a Cobalt. Who cares what idiots like AWDstylez think? If you are one of the people who thought the M62 would net huge HP numbers, well than you are retarded! I bought it to have a mid 13 second with minor bolt-on mods and I have a thing for superchargers. It's the whine! If I want something faster, it will not be fwd!

AWDstylez

07-23-2007, 06:37 PM

Point is the SS/SC is not a joke in the sport compact market. It's not godly either, but there really isnt a dominant car in that class.

I think the SRT-4 is indisputably the leader in that class. You're right, the STi, Evo, 350Z, etc aren't in the same class and it isn't fair for magazines to make comparisons.

Stock for stock, the SS/SC and RL are right up at the top of Sport Compact class. They and the SRT-4 are light years ahead of anything else in that segment as far as power/speed (quality is another issue). What I'm saying is that GM overlooked that no one is going to keep these cars stock and once the modifying begins the SS/SC quickly falls towards the back of the pack. GM made a few bad decisions (which were already listed) which ruined what could have been a very good car.

Area47

07-23-2007, 06:53 PM

AWDstylez

07-23-2007, 06:56 PM

The new Si is garbage. Why do you guys insist on comparing to that car? Try comparing to an EK Si that costs half as much and goes twice as fast for 1/10 the money.

Area47

07-23-2007, 06:56 PM

The new Si is garbage. Why do you guys insist on comparing to that car? Try comparing to an EK Si that costs half as much and goes twice as fast for 1/10 the money.

im just looking at cars in the same "class" more or less.

SS4ME

07-23-2007, 07:05 PM

The new Si is garbage. Why do you guys insist on comparing to that car? Try comparing to an EK Si that costs half as much and goes twice as fast for 1/10 the money.

To me that's like taking an Aveo, stripping it, and slapping an LSJ in it! It may be fast but you still look like a dork rolling around in one!

Mikey851

07-23-2007, 07:11 PM

IMAdreamer, I agree that the Cobalt has more potential than has been seen. My problem (as you mentioned) is a lack of money. Every car I've participated in building has been either family or friend, but I have never been able to afford to build one of my own. I want to make sure I have the money to do it right and use quality parts and take my time. With the experience I do have, especially learning from people who make cars fast for a living, I have learned what to do and what not to do, and one thing I definately agree with you on is that the small pulley trend is not a good one. The worst part is that it is clearly observed to be bad for your engine and the blower, not to mention the fact that it starts putting a strain on everything to the point of being counterproductive.

CamaroMuscleZ28

07-23-2007, 07:23 PM

The new Si is garbage. Why do you guys insist on comparing to that car? Try comparing to an EK Si that costs half as much and goes twice as fast for 1/10 the money.

The Si certainly is not garbage. Don't start comparing older cars to modern ones, modified ones to stock ones. The new K series are good motors. The new Si was put together very nicely. I still think its the standard for the class, maybe you can argue the GTI. They've been doing it longer than anyone else. That being said, because they're the standard doesn't mean they're the best. It's kinda like how the Mustang is the standard for American muscle cars. It's outclassed more often than not but you still compare all of them to the Mustang.

The SRT-4 was (and keep in mind its no longer in production) an awesome car. Great bang vs buck car. However, they're torque steer monsters, no refinement on the inside and handling was a big second to horsepower numbers. If you want to go fast in a straight line then sure, SRT-4 was probably your best bet for the money.

The SS/SC was very much a compromise. It's not as fast as an SRT-4 in a straight line, its not as refined as the RSX's and the Si's and probably doesn't handle quite as well. You look at strictly numbers on paper and thats what you see. However, you want a car with very good power to blow away that civic and dive under that SRT-4 in a turn then the SS/SC is a great choice.

Scythe_Snake

07-23-2007, 10:24 PM

I think the SRT-4 is indisputably the leader in that class. You're right, the STi, Evo, 350Z, etc aren't in the same class and it isn't fair for magazines to make comparisons.

Stock for stock, the SS/SC and RL are right up at the top of Sport Compact class. They and the SRT-4 are light years ahead of anything else in that segment as far as power/speed (quality is another issue). What I'm saying is that GM overlooked that no one is going to keep these cars stock and once the modifying begins the SS/SC quickly falls towards the back of the pack. GM made a few bad decisions (which were already listed) which ruined what could have been a very good car.

I 100% agree with this posts. The only way Is ee big pwoer coming out fo these cars, is by changing the FI setup. The eaton m62 creates too much heat and most people overspin the sh!t outta that thing. And after creating so much heat, people can't even get voer 300whp with it. To much PSI along with too much heat. With a turbo or twinscrew setup though, I believe the cars will open up a bit...a lotta bit. Stock for stock the cobalt, SRT-4 neon, and Ion redline defintiely elad the pack, but after modding wide, you have start off spending a ton of money on the ss/sc ot get it working really good. Also, it would be nice if the aftermarket opened up a whole lot.

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 10:27 PM

The SS/SC was very much a compromise. It's not as fast as an SRT-4 in a straight line, its not as refined as the RSX's and the Si's and probably doesn't handle quite as well. You look at strictly numbers on paper and thats what you see. However, you want a car with very good power to blow away that civic and dive under that SRT-4 in a turn then the SS/SC is a great choice.

That is exactly what most people don't get. When the Cobalt SS/SC was brought to fruition it was meant to be a compromise between the SRT-4 which was the fastest car in the segment but a bare bones tuner so to speak and the RSX-Type S which was the nicest car in the segment as far as creature comforts and luxury. The knock on the SRT-4 was always it's lack of refinement. The RSX always got knocked for being fun to drive but not SRT-4 fast. The Cobalt SS/SC aimed for right between the two and did a damn good job. You have to realize that for SRT-4 speed and RSX refinement the car would have been 4-5k more in price. Then suddenly it's in 350z territory and won't compare to that.

Chevy was a couple years late to the game with the car, At the time it's competitors were the RSX and SRT. The Mazdaspeed 3 didn't exist when the Cobalt was being designed, the Mazdaspeed Protege did and while it's a nice little car it's never been a real contender with the RSX or SRT. Because the Cobalt came at the end of the SRT and RSXs life and pre Mazdaspeed 3 it's a little unrealistic to think it would be better then the MS3.

I think alot of people don't take the time to think about the state of the tuner world when the car was built.

Scythe_Snake

07-23-2007, 10:42 PM

Dreamer I agree with you 100% and I've already pieced together my own turbo kit like you talked about too, LOL! It's about $2800 and not a lot of labor since I have the hookups for what I can't make or put together myself, which isn't much; it's just the fact that I don't have $2800 lying around to mess with, especially saving for my wedding next March. Maybe after that, but I just don't want the Cobalt anymore, mostly because it's not living up to expectations and a little because I'm not totally thrilled with the community, no offense to anyone at all. I have met some nice people here but most aren't my type. I think part of why I loved my 350Z was because the Z and G community, especially locally, was awesome/mature/knowledgeable/helpful. I'll probably be getting into a G35 coupe or Legacy GT because I already know what those communities are like and would like to be a part of something like that again.

You just named cars that [younger] people pretty much always beat the living daylights out of. Put those in the hands of someone who respects their own property and possessions, and there usually aren't too many problems. You named 3 of the most reliable cars on the road. And as for the scions, if the TuRD S/C came stock on the Tc, I'd have one of those instead of the Cobalt, I can tell you that for sure. Working at a dealer I'm sure you mostly saw people coming in for problems, I know I typically don't go to whatever dealer I got my car to tell them how great it is once a month. (I did with the Z a couple times to be honest though.)

Please don't let this community ruin the car for you. I believe the 2.0L LSJ is an amazing engine, and the car is well made as well. Besides some key factors, I know. I 100% agree on the Z/G community though. They're a lot more mature and know their stuff, but here is the double edged sword about the cobalt community. Its a relatively cheap car, so you get new people who really have the drive to learn about these cars and cars in general, and who want to be able to answer the technical questions about cars, and be some fo the leaders who people can go to.

On the other hand, these cars are cheap and some immature, closed minded people can come here and shed bad light on the good ones who are trying to learn, by acting like they know everything and making us all seem like immature idiots.

I say go for a G35X. Those are beautiful cars.

I dream everyday of having an SS/SC, and attempting to change people's minds about how bad the cars and the community are. And I don't know if I would have gotten the TRD supercharged scion tC. I LOVE tC's, but I like them coming NA. then I'd slap on ZPI (Zero Point's industries gigantic 20g stage 3-4 turbo system on there. Great, great, kit.

That is exactly what most people don't get. When the Cobalt SS/SC was brought to fruition it was meant to be a compromise between the SRT-4 which was the fastest car in the segment but a bare bones tuner so to speak and the RSX-Type S which was the nicest car in the segment as far as creature comforts and luxury. The knock on the SRT-4 was always it's lack of refinement. The RSX always got knocked for being fun to drive but not SRT-4 fast. The Cobalt SS/SC aimed for right between the two and did a damn good job. You have to realize that for SRT-4 speed and RSX refinement the car would have been 4-5k more in price. Then suddenly it's in 350z territory and won't compare to that.

Chevy was a couple years late to the game with the car, At the time it's competitors were the RSX and SRT. The Mazdaspeed 3 didn't exist when the Cobalt was being designed, the Mazdaspeed Protege did and while it's a nice little car it's never been a real contender with the RSX or SRT. Because the Cobalt came at the end of the SRT and RSXs life and pre Mazdaspeed 3 it's a little unrealistic to think it would be better then the MS3.

I think alot of people don't take the time to think about the state of the tuner world when the car was built.

That is a good post. I never thought of that. It makes me like the cobalt even more. :)

IMADreamer, read the earlier post I quoted you on. I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about it.

NJHK

07-23-2007, 11:08 PM

The problem here at cobaltss.net is everyone are a bunch of fucking sheep and just blindly follow someone. If people would get off their ass an try to lead then this car would advance and gain some respect, but you'd all rather follow and stick small ass pulleys on your supercharger which will max it out and melt down the #4 because our fuel system needs a fix that no one wants to attempt.

Before you go calling me a hypocrit for not doing it myself realize that I didn't buy this car to go racing with. I bought it to have a fun daily driver and it is just that. The problems with this car are not hard to fix, it's just someone is always waiting for it to be done for them. I've honestly never seen a community of car guys who just sits back and waits for someone to do it first. You want turbo? Go build a kit, if you really immersed yourself in learning you could have the knowledge to do it well and right by Christmas. That's quicker the hahn or any other company will have a decent kit by. 2.2 guys you want a turbo? Oh wait you have no tuning? Get a piggy back, it's not perfect but it will work.

Oh Fuck yeah...spot on.

I will make a comment on this post

There are much worse communities out there than cobaltss.net, which I am proud to say but this forum could be much better in how it's members operate in the society of car "enthusiasts".

This is how I see it:

GM finally makes a decent car that pertains to the Tuner market and it's not a J-body which some people disliked or they like that it's something new and fresh. They buy a SS/SC, that's fine. They enjoy their car, that's fine as well. The problem I have is when people get on this high and mighty state of mind and NOW they have reason to say their car is better than every other one or of course the classic penis battle of Domestic vs. Import.

My view is this being that I currently own a Import and Used to be all about GM cars...

There is no better or worse. It's ALL personal opinion. The person who made that article has his opinion, whether it's educated or not is a different story but it's his opinion. People need to realize that a import magazine every so often might sound BIASED.

Another thing is that people stay too much in the box with what is good and bad. It's about respecting the positives and the negatives of each vehicle and NOT labeling every import or every domestic or every car companies vehicle all together.

As far as this forum goes, there are too many sheep and not enough sheep herders. I think it's funnier that there are J-body guys out there who were more willing to just say "fuck it" with their daily drivers and just do it than here. People are way too scared to learn anything on their own merit and it's kind of sad. I understand it a little bit...but it's sad. I do write ups all the time but what I say is nothing new...I didn't invent turbochargers...I spent less than $100 and bought some books on my own. Hell, you don't even need to buy books now and days, go to google and search something and you will find articles by people like me that explain something to the "T".

I just wish people had some balls and like Jason (IMADreamer) said, quit your bitching about support and just do it. There are cars that have WAY less support than you guys and some of them are just doing it how they want and the way they want to. I just wish people would put more effort into learning rather than sitting back and hoping to see a new thread about something that they wanted to know more about.

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 11:12 PM

That is a good post. I never thought of that. It makes me like the cobalt even more. :)

IMADreamer, read the earlier post I quoted you on. I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about it.

This one?

Dreamer, you know I have mad respect for you, but the bolded comment isn't all true at all, at least for everyone. I can only speak for me, but, I am still learning. I got into the car scene buy a movie and a video game, so not the best entrance. I am learning still, especially just the concepts and everything about cars and the like. So, some may be a sheep, but some want to do things different, but learn from other's mistakes.

I really don't care how someone gets into the car world as long as they come with a good attitude and are willing to learn. Movies and video games have turned people into car guys way before the last big wave of car guys were created. I actually remember when I was younger watching Steve McQueen in Bullit and thinking how awesome it was and how I wanted one of those Mustangs someday. I've since turned on Mustangs but the movie might have been one of the things that sparked my interest in cars. I know for sure my Dad talking about his old Roadrunner, and my neighbor having three Corvettes had a lot to do with it.

The point is it doesn't matter how you become a car guy as long as your attitude is right when you do. Your attitude is right.

The thing that separates you from a lot of people here is that you want to take the extra step and learn. The vast majority of members here just want a fast car, to beat their friends car, or to get attention with their car. They aren't interested in learning why their car is fast or why certain parts make their car fast. Hell most people here think the smaller pulleys make more psi so that's why the cars are faster. As we are finding out you can make more psi with smaller pulleys but the heat generated almost negates the extra airflow generated by the smaller pulley. Plus the fuel system can't handle it. NJHK has made a great post on the misconception of tuners and I hope everyone here reads it. If everyone here learned everything on that list we would all be better off as a community.

Snake, don't worry man. You are respected here. We are all still learning, some of us just know a little more then others. You just have to keep reading, and listening to those who know what they are doing.

Preach on Brotha Adam!!!!!

NJHK

07-23-2007, 11:13 PM

The thing that separates you from a lot of people here is that you want to take the extra step and learn. The vast majority of members here just want a fast car, to beat their friends car, or to get attention with their car. They aren't interested in learning why their car is fast or why certain parts make their car fast. Hell most people here think the smaller pulleys make more psi so that's why the cars are faster. As we are finding out you can make more psi with smaller pulleys but the heat generated almost negates the extra airflow generated by the smaller pulley. Plus the fuel system can't handle it. NJHK has made a great post on the misconception of tuners and I hope everyone here reads it. If everyone here learned everything on that list we would all be better off as a community.

Thanks for plugging my thread/sticky LOL

IMADreamer

07-23-2007, 11:15 PM

Thanks for plugging my thread/sticky LOL

lol, that's the politician in me. Always promoting the cause.

Scythe_Snake

07-23-2007, 11:22 PM

Oh Fuck yeah...spot on.

I will make a comment on this post

There are much worse communities out there than cobaltss.net, which I am proud to say but this forum could be much better in how it's members operate in the society of car "enthusiasts".

This is how I see it:

GM finally makes a decent car that pertains to the Tuner market and it's not a J-body which some people disliked or they like that it's something new and fresh. They buy a SS/SC, that's fine. They enjoy their car, that's fine as well. The problem I have is when people get on this high and mighty state of mind and NOW they have reason to say their car is better than every other one or of course the classic penis battle of Domestic vs. Import.

My view is this being that I currently own a Import and Used to be all about GM cars...

There is no better or worse. It's ALL personal opinion. The person who made that article has his opinion, whether it's educated or not is a different story but it's his opinion. People need to realize that a import magazine every so often might sound BIASED.

Another thing is that people stay too much in the box with what is good and bad. It's about respecting the positives and the negatives of each vehicle and NOT labeling every import or every domestic or every car companies vehicle all together.

As far as this forum goes, there are too many sheep and not enough sheep herders. I think it's funnier that there are J-body guys out there who were more willing to just say "fuck it" with their daily drivers and just do it than here. People are way too scared to learn anything on their own merit and it's kind of sad. I understand it a little bit...but it's sad. I do write ups all the time but what I say is nothing new...I didn't invent turbochargers...I spent less than $100 and bought some books on my own. Hell, you don't even need to buy books now and days, go to google and search something and you will find articles by people like me that explain something to the "T".

I just wish people had some balls and like Jason (IMADreamer) said, quit your bitching about support and just do it. There are cars that have WAY less support than you guys and some of them are just doing it how they want and the way they want to. I just wish people would put more effort into learning rather than sitting back and hoping to see a new thread about something that they wanted to know more about.

Well said. I agree with this and IMADreamer's post. NJHK, dude, your posts have helped me a ton. Occasionally, if I feel like learning a bunch (as I tend to do often), I will open up a tab running how-stuff-works, and list of topics you've strated. I don't think I've learned enough to even comprehend most fo what you say, so I attempt to get the basics from HSW. Thanks a bunch to btoh of you, I have a better outlook. And thanks for supporting the newbies.

This one?

I really don't care how someone gets into the car world as long as they come with a good attitude and are willing to learn. Movies and video games have turned people into car guys way before the last big wave of car guys were created. I actually remember when I was younger watching Steve McQueen in Bullit and thinking how awesome it was and how I wanted one of those Mustangs someday. I've since turned on Mustangs but the movie might have been one of the things that sparked my interest in cars. I know for sure my Dad talking about his old Roadrunner, and my neighbor having three Corvettes had a lot to do with it.

The point is it doesn't matter how you become a car guy as long as your attitude is right when you do. Your attitude is right.

The thing that separates you from a lot of people here is that you want to take the extra step and learn. The vast majority of members here just want a fast car, to beat their friends car, or to get attention with their car. They aren't interested in learning why their car is fast or why certain parts make their car fast. Hell most people here think the smaller pulleys make more psi so that's why the cars are faster. As we are finding out you can make more psi with smaller pulleys but the heat generated almost negates the extra airflow generated by the smaller pulley. Plus the fuel system can't handle it. NJHK has made a great post on the misconception of tuners and I hope everyone here reads it. If everyone here learned everything on that list we would all be better off as a community.

Snake, don't worry man. You are respected here. We are all still learning, some of us just know a little more then others. You just have to keep reading, and listening to those who know what they are doing.

Preach on Brotha Adam!!!!!

Yes, this one, thanks a bunch. I wanted to read what you had to say about it. Thanks for your support. I wanna go out and fill my head with knowledge, now. :) :cssNET: + rep to IMADreamer and NJHK

AWDstylez

07-24-2007, 12:42 AM

That is exactly what most people don't get. When the Cobalt SS/SC was brought to fruition it was meant to be a compromise between the SRT-4 which was the fastest car in the segment but a bare bones tuner so to speak and the RSX-Type S which was the nicest car in the segment as far as creature comforts and luxury. The knock on the SRT-4 was always it's lack of refinement. The RSX always got knocked for being fun to drive but not SRT-4 fast. The Cobalt SS/SC aimed for right between the two and did a damn good job. You have to realize that for SRT-4 speed and RSX refinement the car would have been 4-5k more in price. Then suddenly it's in 350z territory and won't compare to that.

So GM provided an answer to a question that no one asked, and now a couple years later the car failed.

This one?

I really don't care how someone gets into the car world as long as they come with a good attitude and are willing to learn. Movies and video games have turned people into car guys way before the last big wave of car guys were created. I actually remember when I was younger watching Steve McQueen in Bullit and thinking how awesome it was and how I wanted one of those Mustangs someday. I've since turned on Mustangs but the movie might have been one of the things that sparked my interest in cars. I know for sure my Dad talking about his old Roadrunner, and my neighbor having three Corvettes had a lot to do with it.

The point is it doesn't matter how you become a car guy as long as your attitude is right when you do. Your attitude is right.

The thing that separates you from a lot of people here is that you want to take the extra step and learn. The vast majority of members here just want a fast car, to beat their friends car, or to get attention with their car. They aren't interested in learning why their car is fast or why certain parts make their car fast. Hell most people here think the smaller pulleys make more psi so that's why the cars are faster. As we are finding out you can make more psi with smaller pulleys but the heat generated almost negates the extra airflow generated by the smaller pulley. Plus the fuel system can't handle it. NJHK has made a great post on the misconception of tuners and I hope everyone here reads it. If everyone here learned everything on that list we would all be better off as a community.

Snake, don't worry man. You are respected here. We are all still learning, some of us just know a little more then others. You just have to keep reading, and listening to those who know what they are doing.

Preach on Brotha Adam!!!!!

:twothumbs

SS4ME

07-24-2007, 11:58 AM

So GM provided an answer to a question that no one asked, and now a couple years later the car failed.

:wtf: You make no sense! Once again, explain to us how it failed. You throw statements out like this with no backing what so ever. It's your opinion, all be it an uneducated one, and I'll leave it at that. With the volume GM has pumped out on this car, I'd bet GM doesn't think it failed!

Acidangel_5.0

07-24-2007, 12:11 PM

So GM provided an answer to a question that no one asked, and now a couple years later the car failed.

dude you make no sense... failed in whos eyes.. yours? but like stated.. i doubt GM sees it as a failure when you see a shit ton of balts on the road.. i think they are making good money off of them so no.. i dont see how it failed..

SS4ME

07-24-2007, 12:18 PM

dude you make no sense... failed in whos eyes.. yours? but like stated.. i doubt GM sees it as a failure when you see a shit ton of balts on the road.. i think they are making good money off of them so no.. i dont see how it failed..

X1,000,000. I'm still trying to figure how guys like wasey get banned but IDIOTS like this, who have zero education, spew BS regularly, and than flame on people who post threads outside of his narrow minded viewpoints is still hanging around. AWDstylez, stop trolling and leave. Nobody respects your opinions anyways!

roccityroller

07-24-2007, 12:32 PM

IMADreamer

07-24-2007, 12:32 PM

the ignore user button is your friend guys.

The Cobalt as a whole could hardly be seen as a failure. GM is making a profit off the car.

The SS/SC is hardly a failure. I suppose the reasoning behind his statement is that the car go cancelled but it wasn't cancelled because it didn't sell it was cancelled because the LSJ will not meet the new emission standards. The SS will make a return in a year or so with a more emission friendly engine, probably the LNF.

roccityroller

07-24-2007, 12:35 PM

X1,000,000. I'm still trying to figure how guys like wasey get banned but IDIOTS like this, who have zero education, spew BS regularly, and than flame on people who post threads outside of his narrow minded viewpoints is still hanging around. AWDstylez, stop trolling and leave. Nobody respects your opinions anyways!

he has 350 posts...how is he a troll? and it has failed in many respects and it has been successful in many too. He's just stating an opinion and it's not b.s. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the rest of the car world laughs at the SS and considers it a failure as well.

Side note: by car world i do not mean the ricers that drives civics with big wings and fart cans...we laugh at them.

IMADreamer

07-24-2007, 12:45 PM

Alright, first of all, i never came into this argument to be a "domestic hater" or an "import fanboy", the exact opposite actually. I have my cobalt. I love my cobalt. I will continue to drive my cobalt. But the fact of the matter is that in the scope of the "tuner" world, this motor was not built to support modification. So now, those "sheep herders" need more money, more knowledge, and more time to "go out on a limb" and do something different.

I'm not saying no other car goes through this same predicament but this community is dealing with a 100% new motor that noone had seen before. GM built what they needed to build; a entry level sporty compact car to replace the cavalier and pique the interest in domestic compacts. They did that. They did not build a 4cyl rocket with power readily on tap or easily made. However, there are people on here that think that's what they have. Hence why they talk down to 2.2 owners, go on Si sites and talk shit, and piss and moan when they get beat by and SRT. And, Idc if the srt starts at a higher price than the balt. Fact of the matter is, it's in the same class, so is the RSX, GTi and Si. The fact that it's the cheapest just means that more 16 y.o. kids can get it for their birthday.

I'm not trying to start a flame war at all, i'm just trying to express some things i've been noticing on here as of late. This thread for instance. It is titled bullshit article because it talks down on the cobaltss. But, the things said in the article are mostly true. the perfomance is good, but it's not stellar, and the lack of ability to handle more power (read: blown #4 cylinder) doesn't help. the spoiler is tacky. Prior to this car coming out and us all buying them, had we seen a wing like that on a civic or a cavlier we would instantly have deemed that ricer. but since you bought your car with the wing on it's ok? That's why people take the spoilers off. That's why these car's IMO, look 100x better with them off.

I'm sorry but I feel your statements show the lack of knowledge of this car. It's not the engine that is causing failures but the power adder. A more efficient power adder would do this car wonders. The engine is plenty strong, but overspinning the blower and creating more heat then air flow is killing the engine. A turbo/twin screw/centrifigal swap would do wonders for this car. A turbo swap could be done for less then 3k dollars if someone wanted to do it, but everyone is just waiting for someone else.

The wing is totally subjective and a personal preference. It's not a valid arguement as to whether a car is good or not. If you don't like the wing take it off.

I think maybe you have gotten a little butt hurt in the past by some cobalt owners and it's jaded you. Not every SS owner rips the 2.2 guys, nor do we rip civics for having big wings. You are generalizing and stereotyping.

I really don't understand your beef with the SS. You can safely add 25% over stock horsepower to this car without changing poweradders. With supporting mods that's low 13s all day with an average driver. I think your expectations of this car are like many young peoples unrealistic. For whatever reason kids today think cars should be able to be modded to 400hp with bolt ons. The fact is most people here, and I suspect you can be lumped into this group but I may be wrong, have no idea what it takes to nearly double a cars horsepower.

Kids today are very ignorant. They see things on tv and they want to duplicate it. They see a show with a sport compact running 10s in the quartermile making 500hp and they they build that car in a half hour show. What they don't show you is the 10s of thousands of dollars it takes to do that and the dozens of hours to build it. Then the hours of dyno tuning that follow.

That's why people laugh at this community. You want something out of the SS that just isn't reasonable without heavily modding it. I know you will fire back at me talking about your experience and how you know what it takes to make a car fast, but if you really do know what it takes to make a car fast I wouldn't have been making this post. You would understand what I am saying and you would understand the limitations of the SS and how they can be overcome.

The bottom line is alot of you bought the wrong fucking car.

SS4ME

07-24-2007, 12:48 PM

roccityroller

07-24-2007, 12:50 PM

I'm sorry but I feel your statements show the lack of knowledge of this car. It's not the engine that is causing failures but the power adder. A more efficient power adder would do this car wonders. The engine is plenty strong, but overspinning the blower and creating more heat then air flow is killing the engine. A turbo/twin screw/centrifigal swap would do wonders for this car. A turbo swap could be done for less then 3k dollars if someone wanted to do it, but everyone is just waiting for someone else.

The wing is totally subjective and a personal preference. It's not a valid arguement as to whether a car is good or not. If you don't like the wing take it off.

I think maybe you have gotten a little butt hurt in the past by some cobalt owners and it's jaded you. Not every SS owner rips the 2.2 guys, nor do we rip civics for having big wings. You are generalizing and stereotyping.

I really don't understand your beef with the SS. You can safely add 25% over stock horsepower to this car without changing poweradders. With supporting mods that's low 13s all day with an average driver. I think your expectations of this car are like many young peoples unrealistic. For whatever reason kids today think cars should be able to be modded to 400hp with bolt ons. The fact is most people here, and I suspect you can be lumped into this group but I may be wrong, have no idea what it takes to nearly double a cars horsepower.

Kids today are very ignorant. They see things on tv and they want to duplicate it. They see a show with a sport compact running 10s in the quartermile making 500hp and they they build that car in a half hour show. What they don't show you is the 10s of thousands of dollars it takes to do that and the dozens of hours to build it. Then the hours of dyno tuning that follow.

That's why people laugh at this community. You want something out of the SS that just isn't reasonable without heavily modding it. I know you will fire back at me talking about your experience and how you know what it takes to make a car fast, but if you really do know what it takes to make a car fast I wouldn't have been making this post. You would understand what I am saying and you would understand the limitations of the SS and how they can be overcome.

The bottom line is alot of you bought the wrong fucking car.

I have no "beef" with the ss, nor am i butt hurt at all. I am not trying to knock the SS i'm just stating that when you compare it to other cars in the class it falls short. I'm not saying that makes me like my car or the SS any less, however, for people to act like the car is the best thing to happen to the scene and act like it is great is wrong.

and i'm sorry when i said engine, i was referring to the "package", i.e. motor and power adder. like i said, it was not built to be easily moddable. Yes, you're right, a turbo swap can be done for less than 3 grand. But, for the average person that's a lot of work and downtime for a car they may need to drive. Hence why you don't see a lot of people trying to make tons of power. You can keep flaming on me if you want, and acting like i'm retarded, i could personally care less what some e-genius thinks about me. call me an ss hater, call me and idiot, whatever. I'm just stating and defending my opinion.

IMADreamer

07-24-2007, 12:56 PM

he has 350 posts...how is he a troll? and it has failed in many respects and it has been successful in many too. He's just stating an opinion and it's not b.s. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the rest of the car world laughs at the SS and considers it a failure as well.

Side note: by car world i do not mean the ricers that drives civics with big wings and fart cans...we laugh at them.

Well he does just rip the cobalt constantly. I suppose that could be considered a troll. Honestly I don't mind him though, I just ignore the anti cobalt statements and sometimes he actually brings up good points.

So a car made by a domestic company for the very hostile import world that is composed of teenagers who live to pwn people and only care about street cred, having the right look, and putting others down even stood a chance? I don't think so. All the import kiddies rip the SRT also and it smokes them all. I would like to hear why you think it's a failure? Because kid with civics laugh at it? The car got great reviews from all the major mags, it scored fantasticly in C and Ds lighting lap challenge and it performed better then several cars in the class ahead of it. The only knocks I've heard are the wing and the plastic dash. That's it really.

So why is the car a failure? Because you don't like it? Because your friends don't like it? Because 16 year olds with 130hp imports don't like it? It's funny you said it's the laughing stock of the sport compact world because I get ALOT of compliments on it at shows and such from owners of all types of cars. If a bunch of teenage douchebags want to rip it I could care less. It's the car guys opinions I care about and for the most part I've gotten nothing but positive feedback from them.

I'd like to hear a little more of your reasoning. It's not that your arguement sucks it's that you haven't even presented an arguement. You are just saying it's a failure and giving no reason why.

I have no "beef" with the ss, nor am i butt hurt at all. I am not trying to knock the SS i'm just stating that when you compare it to other cars in the class it falls short. I'm not saying that makes me like my car or the SS any less, however, for people to act like the car is the best thing to happen to the scene and act like it is great is wrong.

and i'm sorry when i said engine, i was referring to the "package", i.e. motor and power adder. like i said, it was not built to be easily moddable. Yes, you're right, a turbo swap can be done for less than 3 grand. But, for the average person that's a lot of work and downtime for a car they may need to drive. Hence why you don't see a lot of people trying to make tons of power. You can keep flaming on me if you want, and acting like i'm retarded, i could personally care less what some e-genius thinks about me. call me an ss hater, call me and idiot, whatever. I'm just stating and defending my opinion.

Again explain to me how the SS falls short. I already explained how it didn't.

SS4ME

07-24-2007, 01:02 PM

With his mentality, all cars that have been discontinued were mistakes! How much sense does that make? It doesn't. I also say he is trolling because he consistently throws out statements without the true facts. Like this!

You answered your own question. GM's do not old resale value. The discontinuation of the car will only make it's resale value plummet further. There's low demand for them, that's why they're getting discontinued. Demand isn't going to suddenly shoot up.

Sounds like someone talking out of their ass!

D4u2s0t

07-24-2007, 01:02 PM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

Stock brakes are solid, I'll give you that. They survive auto-xing without an issue. But the car is an understeering mess that can't put power down when it needs to.

i got 30.7 mpg yesterday on a 6 hoiur drive, and majority of the speed was between 80 and 100.

IMADreamer

07-24-2007, 01:20 PM

With his mentality, all cars that have been discontinued were mistakes! How much sense does that make? It doesn't. I also say he is trolling because he consistently throws out statements without the true facts. Like this!

Sounds like someone talking out of their ass!

Right, it's been stated many times by industry officials, auto journalist, and a lot of people here that the SS/SC is being discountinued due to emissions regulations not demand. Than again I try to deal with facts rather then speculation so I wouldn't say something like it was discontinued due to low demand.

roccityroller

07-24-2007, 01:21 PM

Well he does just rip the cobalt constantly. I suppose that could be considered a troll. Honestly I don't mind him though, I just ignore the anti cobalt statements and sometimes he actually brings up good points.

So a car made by a domestic company for the very hostile import world that is composed of teenagers who live to pwn people and only care about street cred, having the right look, and putting others down even stood a chance? I don't think so. All the import kiddies rip the SRT also and it smokes them all. I would like to hear why you think it's a failure? Because kid with civics laugh at it? The car got great reviews from all the major mags, it scored fantasticly in C and Ds lighting lap challenge and it performed better then several cars in the class ahead of it. The only knocks I've heard are the wing and the plastic dash. That's it really.

So why is the car a failure? Because you don't like it? Because your friends don't like it? Because 16 year olds with 130hp imports don't like it? It's funny you said it's the laughing stock of the sport compact world because I get ALOT of compliments on it at shows and such from owners of all types of cars. If a bunch of teenage douchebags want to rip it I could care less. It's the car guys opinions I care about and for the most part I've gotten nothing but positive feedback from them.

I'd like to hear a little more of your reasoning. It's not that your arguement sucks it's that you haven't even presented an arguement. You are just saying it's a failure and giving no reason why.

Again explain to me how the SS falls short. I already explained how it didn't.

i guess it's just me then. apparently nobody here thinks the same way. But when it first came out and it did great against the evo and STi in the time attack, i had great expectations as everyone did. but now the problems start popping up. People have issues with clutchs, snap axles, cdi boxes, etc. I understand that any car is going to have problems but ours almost seemed to be caused by our car not being built to handle a little more than stock power. Now i'm sure you will take that statement as lack of knowledge, fine. I don't have hours to explain myself. I'm a work.

However, I never said the cobalt was a complete failure, i said it was successful to some extent. But for GM to not realize that this would be a car that kids would want to mod is the big reason it went downhill. The inefficient form of power adder, as you had mentioned. The weak gains provided by the stage kits? I mean come on, everyone on here even said stage three was a joke when compared to mopar stage three. The cobalt just didn't keep up in a modifiable sense, to other cars in the class. Now, noone expected them to keep up with the Si's or RSX's but GM never made them as tuner friendly as the SRT-4 or even the new GTi. Their sales numbers on the cobalt model were great, but mostly because the base models are an excellent daily driver. mine has gotten back and forth from MI to NY all while getting 41mpg highway and 33-35 around town. and for a raliable econobox, they look pretty good. But the SS and the "SS" name, have always been known for superior performance and i guess i just never saw anything spectacular out of them.

No, i'm not talking about ricers that laugh at us. I'm talking about people that have fast cars, and have built fast cars. I'm on many forums besides CSS, and the people on those forums tend to make more sense that many of the people on here. For example, turbo swaps and motor swaps are for 10 year old cars, that aren't daily drivers. they're for project cars. Why buy a brand new car and then turn around and drop 3k to take off the blower and put on a turbo when you can just go out and buy several other cars that come with turbos? Why modify a brand new car and lose the ability for it to be a daily driver b/c it makes too much power for the car to be reliable? And the cobalt, with all the money people have put into these to max the blower etc and they're still running 13's? come on, maybe that's not failing to you but if i spent that much money i'd wanna see more than a 1 second improvement.

GSoccer24

07-24-2007, 01:23 PM

No SS/SC on earth gets 30mpg. And if you think a car with twist beam "semi-independant" (i.e. solid) rear suspension is meant for road courses then you must have never driven anything better.

Stock brakes are solid, I'll give you that. They survive auto-xing without an issue. But the car is an understeering mess that can't put power down when it needs to.

I average 31mpg to sometimes up to 34mpg on each tank. I drive very easy 98% of the time and don't go into boost or past 5hg/in vacuum if I don't absolutely have to, and shift around 3k to 3,500rpm. It is definitely possible and I have the airbox mod, a 3.0" pulley, and colder plugs to boot.

I agree on the rear suspension fully, brakes totally, and power delivery somewhat.

IMADreamer

07-24-2007, 01:40 PM

i guess it's just me then. apparently nobody here thinks the same way. But when it first came out and it did great against the evo and STi in the time attack, i had great expectations as everyone did. but now the problems start popping up. People have issues with clutchs, snap axles, cdi boxes, etc. I understand that any car is going to have problems but ours almost seemed to be caused by our car not being built to handle a little more than stock power. Now i'm sure you will take that statement as lack of knowledge, fine. I don't have hours to explain myself. I'm a work.

However, I never said the cobalt was a complete failure, i said it was successful to some extent. But for GM to not realize that this would be a car that kids would want to mod is the big reason it went downhill. The inefficient form of power adder, as you had mentioned. The weak gains provided by the stage kits? I mean come on, everyone on here even said stage three was a joke when compared to mopar stage three. The cobalt just didn't keep up in a modifiable sense, to other cars in the class. Now, noone expected them to keep up with the Si's or RSX's but GM never made them as tuner friendly as the SRT-4 or even the new GTi. Their sales numbers on the cobalt model were great, but mostly because the base models are an excellent daily driver. mine has gotten back and forth from MI to NY all while getting 41mpg highway and 33-35 around town. and for a raliable econobox, they look pretty good. But the SS and the "SS" name, have always been known for superior performance and i guess i just never saw anything spectacular out of them.

No, i'm not talking about ricers that laugh at us. I'm talking about people that have fast cars, and have built fast cars. I'm on many forums besides CSS, and the people on those forums tend to make more sense that many of the people on here. For example, turbo swaps and motor swaps are for 10 year old cars, that aren't daily drivers. they're for project cars. Why buy a brand new car and then turn around and drop 3k to take off the blower and put on a turbo when you can just go out and buy several other cars that come with turbos? Why modify a brand new car and lose the ability for it to be a daily driver b/c it makes too much power for the car to be reliable? And the cobalt, with all the money people have put into these to max the blower etc and they're still running 13's? come on, maybe that's not failing to you but if i spent that much money i'd wanna see more than a 1 second improvement.

Why buy a new car and try to shave a second off it no matter what the car is? Why do that in an SI, RSX, or SRT? Why do those cars get the exception to the rule but the SS is a failure for the same reasons?

You can't compare stage kits from different manufactures. Stage kits are marketing ploys not an industry standard. Stage 3 from Mopar is defferent then from GM, which is different then Lingenfelter.

You are contradicting yourself in a way. You say the expert tuners on other sites say why get a new car and do a turbo swap? (I say the same thing btw way, hence why my car is lightly modded) Then in the next breath you say the SS is a failure because you can only get a second or so off it with light mods. Which do you want? A race car or a street car? Have you driven a heavily modified car before? I wouldn't drive one daily either. A 14 second car is plenty for daily driving.

On to the problems with this car. The clutch is fine. It's been well stated that this car has to be driven a certain way to keep the clutch happy. There are alot of guys running small pulleys and making 260+hp and still running the stock clutch. The SS isn't the only car with a clutch that can't handle large hp gains over stock. If you are on alot of other forums you should know this. The axles are fine too. People who break axles do so by abusing the car. Wheel hop breaks axles, this is true with any car. The MS 3 is notorious for breaking mounts with wheel hop. Is that car a failure? 30$ mounts will fix wheel hop for us. Yes GM should have fixed it from the factory but they didn't.

Again you can safely increase hp 25% over stock with little money and your bitching that it's not enough. I suggest you go to the other forums you are a part of and do some serious investigating on what problems they are having. Every car has problems when it comes to modding because no car is built to mod. If you want I can run down some problems of other cars? No car is perfect and you are expecting unreal results from the SS.

Anyway, I'm at work too but I get paid to argue all day so I have nothing but time to discuss this. lol

Area47

07-24-2007, 01:52 PM

no one has mentioned this yet.

YOU bought the car because YOU like it. not what some magazine has to say.

SS4ME

07-24-2007, 01:55 PM

I guess I don't understand the expectations of a small group of tuners that feel they need to modify their econoboxes into Supercar territory and beyond. I would have to say all manufactures do not have this high expectation in mind when building cheap cars!

IMADreamer

07-24-2007, 01:56 PM

roccityroller

07-24-2007, 02:01 PM

Why buy a new car and try to shave a second off it no matter what the car is? Why do that in an SI, RSX, or SRT? Why do those cars get the exception to the rule but the SS is a failure for the same reasons?

You can't compare stage kits from different manufactures. Stage kits are marketing ploys not an industry standard. Stage 3 from Mopar is defferent then from GM, which is different then Lingenfelter.

You are contradicting yourself in a way. You say the expert tuners on other sites say why get a new car and do a turbo swap? (I say the same thing btw way, hence why my car is lightly modded) Then in the next breath you say the SS is a failure because you can only get a second or so off it with light mods. Which do you want? A race car or a street car? Have you driven a heavily modified car before? I wouldn't drive one daily either. A 14 second car is plenty for daily driving.

I'm not complaining about being able to only cut off a second with light mods, that's good, what i'm saying is people who have put the time and effort into doing turbo swaps and porting their blowers, etc haven't seen much gains. 1st gear doesn't tune right b/c it's used to seeing boost, the pcm hiccups b/c it's not used to seeing boost ramp up. trust me, i've spoke with Dan about a lot of the issues he's had with his turbo swap. Granted, once you get our of the lower RPM's it runs fine, but if i wanted a highway monster i would have bought a supra. That's my only complaint about the turbo swaps: Money/dedication Vs. results. obviously i'm not going to spend the $30 on a tornado when i know its not going to do anything, but i will spend $40 on a K&N filter because it will give me results for my money.

I think the majority of my calling it a failure might not be a failure as much as it was a disappointment. I expected to see a lot more out of this car and have taken a lot of flaming from other car enthusiasts for supporting it. and now, after seeing results from all the projects that i thought would be "huge" I'm dissappointed. I didn't think low 12's would be tough for these cars but they are. they can't get the power to the ground the car has to be driven special to keep the clutch from slipping, etc.

I wasn't directly comparing stage kits as much as i was comparing the manufacturers' willingness and success at supporting the tuning of their cars. Mopar did a better job at that and their cars have been built to be pretty sick by many people. Had Gm released a stage 3 kit that could compete with MSIII i think you would hear a very different attitdue from a low of people. Whether it had been a turbo, twin charge or new blower, better stage upgrades would've help this car be much more successful in the tuner market.

that's my point exactly.

As people mature they will see this too.

That's 100% my point and 100% the point i was trying to convey originally, this car is nothing spectacular, it is a dd and an economy car. Just some of them happened to come with a little boost. however, you get numerous people on here that feel that this car will be the fastest out there and then get butt hurt when an import mag says something bad about their car. the cobalt is a nice car but it is not an AMAZING car, some will like it some won't, you just have to deal with it. When a mag says it's not good, don't say it's bullshit, because i bet they made very valid points in that article that support their views.

i guess that's what i was trying to say to begin with and kinda took the long way, i guess that's why i'm an engineer and not a lawyer...:cool: