Ok guys before I get flamed for starting a new LNF thread, here me out. I've been reading the other threads and have noticed that no one really talks about the tranny. Ok as I understand from all of the threads that the new balt shares the exact same engine and tranny as the hhr ss. Well the tranny has the "NO-LIFT SHIFT" thing that most think just means you can stay on the gas while shiffting. But if you look at no lift shifting in drag cars it means theres no clutch involved and basically you just shift. So I looked at some pics from the hhr ss interior and sure enough theres no clutch pedal. Take a look let me know what you think.-----http://www.hhrclub.org/galleries/2008-chevy-hhr-ss/-------at the bottom theres a pic looking at the steering wheel and theres no clutch.

theres 3. the gas pedal is kind of shadowed and looks like part of the floor mat.

See thats what I thought but that looked really big for a gas pedal.

See thats what I thought but that looked really big for a gas pedal.

the gas pedal is almost always bigger than the brake and clutch though. also, i'm pretty sure that we knew that the hhr was coming in an auto tranny as well as manual.

Transmission

Backing the turbocharged engine is a standard GM Powertrain Sweden F35 five-speed manual transmission. Semi-synthetic transmission fluid is used for its capability of absorbing heat and resisting breakdown during high-performance driving.

A performance-oriented feature referred to as “no-lift shift” allows maximum performance – upshifts can be performed very quickly without lifting the throttle. An algorithm in the engine’s controller enables this high-performance feature, which helps maximize acceleration and gear changes.

A short-throw shifter with stiffened shifter bushings and modified cables and attachments enhances confidence behind the wheel, giving the driver a firmer, more direct and quicker shift feel. A limited-slip differential is available with the manual transmission.



...please, continue your discussion

how can you not see the 3 pedels? You need to up the brightness on your monitor if you cant see them:

http://www.hhrclub.org/galleries/2008-chevy-hhr-ss/resized_2008-chevy-hhr-ss_20.jpg

I have to say that the gauge cluster is NUTS!

is the no lift shift a hardware or a software thing

Sorry guys just had to make sure, guess i need to go get some glasses.

is the no lift shift a hardware or a software thing

lets try this again: A performance-oriented feature referred to as “no-lift shift” allows maximum performance – upshifts can be performed very quickly without lifting the throttle. An algorithm in the engine’s controller enables this high-performance feature, which helps maximize acceleration and gear changes.

Basically the computer cuts the throttle when you engauge the cutch under heavy acceleration.

i actually love that interior, and the seats look well done...

is the no lift shift a hardware or a software thing

Software. Same way dodge adds it as part of the Stage kit for the SRT-4.

so could this be added through HPT

so could this be added through HPT

probably not, im sure there are some extra sensors involved.

thats what i want to know if its any hardware differences or if its all software:spam:

As far as I know, it basically is just a rev-limiter type thing, it allows the car to keep the power up, its not as harsh as the stock rev limiter but lets the car hold boost and therefore torque while you shift. Its really nothing special, but I'm hoping that the clutch is much stronger than the SS/SC or they won't be lasting too long. Besides, every new kid who wants to try that feature out while driving every day is going to burn out a clutch pretty fast. Its just powershifting with a soft-touch rev limiter.

i am looking into for an entirely different reason...I want it for some of the hills i get stuck in traffic on and dont like slipping the clutch as much i could just keep the throttle down and go

i am looking into for an entirely different reason...I want it for some of the hills i get stuck in traffic on and dont like slipping the clutch as much i could just keep the throttle down and go

What? I don't think that would be a good idea. Picture powershifting, thats no-lift shifting. They just tune the ECU to not be as harsh when you do it.

so basically i'm looking at it for a way to use it that doesnt work the same way

so basically i'm looking at it for a way to use it that doesnt work the same way

Right, its not what you want. You need hill-assist control, which holds the brakes for you until you get the car going forward, I think Saab offers it and maybe some others, but you will still be using the clutch as much as any decent driver who just has his foot on the brakes. LIGHT slipping of the clutch on a hill isn't going to hurt anything, unless you are using the clutch to hold the car on the slant, not the brakes. That could cause issues with heat buildup.

i'm just overly paranoid about slipping it too much i just get stuck on 60* slopes in traffic and i just think that the clutch is slowly getting ripped apart

I don't know all that much about the no-lift shift system, but what I have been able to figure out (from a fair amount of reading) is that most people that talk about this feature don't have a damn clue what they are talking about.... /rant

Keep in mind the following is pure speculation, and not necessarily factual in any way.

From the way the system is described, it sounds as though the computer will adjust the amount of fuel dependant on the clutch pedal depression. This would basically mean that as you put your foot on the clutch, the throttle body closes as if you were releasing the accelator. As you release the clutch, the throttle body opens again at a set ratio which is compared to the clutch pedal position.

This would do a lot of things to improve the quality and precession/speed of the shifts. Firstly, it would eliminate the need for the driver to learn the clutch/accelator ratio for a clean shift. Secondly, by having the computer system control how much fuel is delivered to the engine, this will prevent the engine RPM from climbing between shifts and help eliminate common wear and tear caused by "power shifting".

Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or clutchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to reduce the time where the driving wheels are not powered.

Since the accelator, brake and clutch pedals are all electronic, this system is very possible. But again.. pure speculation on my part.

i kno for a fact the new bmws have the hill assist feature on their manual cars

I don't know all that much about the no-lift shift system, but what I have been able to figure out (from a fair amount of reading) is that most people that talk about this feature don't have a damn clue what they are talking about.... /rant

Keep in mind the following is pure speculation, and not necessarily factual in any way.

From the way the system is described, it sounds as though the computer will adjust the amount of fuel dependant on the clutch pedal depression. This would basically mean that as you put your foot on the clutch, the throttle body closes as if you were releasing the accelator. As you release the clutch, the throttle body opens again at a set ratio which is compared to the clutch pedal position.

This would do a lot of things to improve the quality and precession/speed of the shifts. Firstly, it would eliminate the need for the driver to learn the clutch/accelator ratio for a clean shift. Secondly, by having the computer system control how much fuel is delivered to the engine, this will prevent the engine RPM from climbing between shifts and help eliminate common wear and tear caused by "power shifting".

Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or clutchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to reduce the time where the driving wheels are not powered.

Since the accelator, brake and clutch pedals are all electronic, this system is very possible. But again.. pure speculation on my part.


sounds logical

wtf is with that rpm gauge

wtf is with that rpm gauge

What do you mean? Looks normal to me... just small..

I don't know all that much about the no-lift shift system, but what I have been able to figure out (from a fair amount of reading) is that most people that talk about this feature don't have a damn clue what they are talking about.... /rant

Keep in mind the following is pure speculation, and not necessarily factual in any way.

From the way the system is described, it sounds as though the computer will adjust the amount of fuel dependant on the clutch pedal depression. This would basically mean that as you put your foot on the clutch, the throttle body closes as if you were releasing the accelator. As you release the clutch, the throttle body opens again at a set ratio which is compared to the clutch pedal position.

This would do a lot of things to improve the quality and precession/speed of the shifts. Firstly, it would eliminate the need for the driver to learn the clutch/accelator ratio for a clean shift. Secondly, by having the computer system control how much fuel is delivered to the engine, this will prevent the engine RPM from climbing between shifts and help eliminate common wear and tear caused by "power shifting".

Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or clutchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to reduce the time where the driving wheels are not powered.

Since the accelator, brake and clutch pedals are all electronic, this system is very possible. But again.. pure speculation on my part.

I agree, without knowing the exact method, what you describe is most likely what will be going on. It is just computer controlled protection that enables powershifting=like behavior. I think you are correct in that it will use the ETC to reduce throttle opening during shifting, but it could also just retard timing and pull fuel. Closing the throttle will still cause a loss of turbo speed and boost, which could be avoided by not closing the throttle but using a basic torque management type algorithm to allow less wear on the drivetrain during shifting and it would be faster to resume full torque because you wouldn't loose any boost during the shift. Thats how Dodge does it on the SRT-4, they don't have an electric throttle but they have the same feature with the Stage 1 and up computers.

lets try this again: A performance-oriented feature referred to as “no-lift shift” allows maximum performance – upshifts can be performed very quickly without lifting the throttle. An algorithm in the engine’s controller enables this high-performance feature, which helps maximize acceleration and gear changes.

Basically the computer cuts the throttle when you engauge the cutch under heavy acceleration.

I rather doubt the computer cuts throttle but uses the fuel cut to match revs.

thats what i want to know if its any hardware differences or if its all software:spam:Basically the key to this feature is a new Clutch Pedal Position sensor, which creates an analog input voltage to the ECM based on the position of the pedal throughout it's travel. ~4.5V when the peadal is released (clutch applied) and ~0.5V when the clutch pedal is floored. There is also a new Clutch Pedal Position (CPP) relearn procedure that will need to be performed by the dealership (via the TECH2) if ever the ECM is replaced or possibly after certain reprogramming events. (and I guess techncially if the sensor itself is ever replaced any parts of the pedal mechanism)

So the ECM is able to use throttle controls to lower engine speed to the correct "speed matching" levels when it "sees" the clutch released regardless of accelerator pedal input from the driver, and return to driver commanded levels (WOT?) at the completion of the shift.

HTH
WopOnTour

good info

Basically the key to this feature is a new Clutch Pedal Position sensor, which creates an analog input voltage to the ECM based on the position of the pedal throughout it's travel. ~4.5V when the peadal is released (clutch applied) and ~0.5V when the clutch pedal is floored. There is also a new Clutch Pedal Position (CPP) relearn procedure that will need to be performed by the dealership (via the TECH2) if ever the ECM is replaced or possibly after certain reprogramming events. (and I guess techncially if the sensor itself is ever replaced any parts of the pedal mechanism)

So the ECM is able to use throttle controls to lower engine speed to the correct "speed matching" levels when it "sees" the clutch released regardless of accelerator pedal input from the driver, and return to driver commanded levels (WOT?) at the completion of the shift.

HTH
WopOnTour

Great, another fucking sensor to worry about. I'm glad I won't be buying one of these. That is a cool feature, but I think that route is just overengineering it. There are already two clutch sensors, are they adding the new one or is it replacing both of the old ones?

yeah but is the clutch beefed up? that is my main and only concern. Hate to pull it apart for a clutch but I guess I could do it but that would be my only modification to this car other than GM parts. I have just a different opinion based on the unproven after market parts that have been flogged and had no proof on providing safe performance gains.