^ WIll that be a problem on the high boost 20psi new LNF engine? THis is my only concern on this car. Even the new 1.8 on the Astra uses the iron block as is the astra turbo vxr 2.0.

^ WIll that be a problem? THis is my only concern on this car. Even the new 1.8 on the Astra uses the iron block as is the astra turbo vxr 2.0.

i asume you are talking about the new turbo engine thats going to be in the cobalts?

i asume you are talking about the new turbo engine thats going to be in the cobalts?

Yes, sorry, of course i mean the LNF.

why do you think it would be a problem?

its lighter it expands and contracts faster, gets rid of heat faster. i think all smaller cars should use all the Aluminium they can.

i see you changed the message....lol

i dont really know much about turbos but i really dont think gm would put out something that was going to blow up, if they did.. it will have a 100,000 mile waranty.

why do you think it would be a problem?

its lighter it expands and contracts faster, gets rid of heat faster. i think all smaller cars should use all the Aluminium they can.

i see you changed the message....lol

i dont really know much about turbos but i really dont think gm would put out something that was going to blow up, if they did.. it will have a 100,000 mile waranty.

I have lots of knowledge about turbo engines. Because I own a Volvo 240 turbo, which has one of the strongest pig iron engine blocks in the world and can withstand high boost. All legendary turbo engines were iron, lancer 4g63t, Skyline RB26DETT, Supra 2JZ-GTE, Celica 3S-GE, silvia CA18DET...

Honda engines are aluminium and also open deck, so they often blow up.

why not just look at the cars that already have the LNF.... like the Pontiac Solstice GXP and Saturn Sky Redline... i don't hear about them blowing up ever

Just for the record

All the ECOTEC motors have Aluminum blocks.

I don't understand the questioning of "blowing" the block. If it had very thin cylinder walls and not sleeved, I could maybe understand but if I remember correctly, all the ECOTEC motors are sleeved and they aren't danty and thin blocks either.

There are different reasons why a engine will blow and 9 times out of 10, it's not because of the block itself but other contributing factors. If a rod goes through the block, it's not because the block is weak, it's because something caused the connecting rod to stop it's normal function (more than likely a very large detonation).

read my first post, most ecotec engines are iron.

read my first post, most ecotec engines are iron.

All the american versions of the ecotec are made out of alumnium...

The bottom line is, the benefits of an aluminum block far out way the disadvantages compared to an iron block. With a well designed turbo setup, it wont matter if the block is aluminum or not. If your motor blew up and you claim its because of the aluminum block, its an excuse. As long as you can get the head bolted down, and keep the engine cool and not warp, everything will work much better compared to an iron block. The cylinder liners are made out of iron for a reason. Not to mention the cooling properties of aluminum allow higher compression levels. As NJHK said, more commonly what happens is people keep the stock bottom end when running high levels of boost and pay the price. A connecting rod breaks, and pounds a hole in the block. This can happen regardless if you use aluminum or iron.

FYI: a Top fuel dragster uses a billet-aluminum block (you know, the 8,000HP machines that run 4 seconds in the quarter mile), and although billet is much stronger (and more expensive) compared to a casting, it is none the less made out of aluminum.

The bottom line is, the benefits of an aluminum block far out way the disadvantages compared to an iron block. With a well designed turbo setup, it wont matter if the block is aluminum or not. If your motor blew up and you claim its because of the aluminum block, its an excuse. As long as you can get the head bolted down, and keep the engine cool and not warp, everything will work much better compared to an iron block. The cylinder liners are made out of iron for a reason. Not to mention the cooling properties of aluminum allow higher compression levels. As NJHK said, more commonly what happens is people keep the stock bottom end when running high levels of boost and pay the price. A connecting rod breaks, and pounds a hole in the block. This can happen regardless if you use aluminum or iron.

FYI: a Top fuel dragster uses a billet-aluminum block (you know, the 8,000HP machines that run 4 seconds in the quarter mile), and although billet is much stronger (and more expensive) compared to a casting, it is none the less made out of aluminum.

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All the american versions of the ecotec are made out of alumnium...

Thank You

My car... aluminum 2.0 stock factory motor, turbo's 22-24psi... 330+whp 0 issues

I"m not even done pushing things... just need to swap cams soon though cause my car is choking up top

The new Evo engines are using an Aluminum block...

Do some research first before you post about worrying about an aluminum block. If the 1450 hp ecotec (aluminum block/head) can handle 52 psi and 10.8:1 compression, I wouldn't be worried about 22 psi :nono:

The new Evo engines are using an Aluminum block...

That's why I doubt it'll be as robust as 4g63... in fact the new evo is alot slower.

That's why I doubt it'll be as robust as 4g63... in fact the new evo is alot slower.

Here we go...

Its all about construction, not material. If you have an excellent aluminum block, then it will be just as strong as an iron block. Ecotec vs. 4G63. Ones aluminum, ones iron, they can block handle the same amount of power.

Ok, whatever. I'm done arguing with people like you. Think what you want.

When was the last time anyone has heard of a block failing?

The problem with aluminum is that is expands really fast and can't handle heats like iron can, but does that make iron>aluminum?

Absolutely not. For turbocharging why is a cast iron block better? If the heads are still aluminum you still have problems and you are still going to have overall problems if you overheat(I know damn well valves aren't cast iron and even if they were, something with a smaller solute/amount of mass is going to heat up and expand faster anyways).

Yes those motors of the past were cast iron blocks... most motors were back in the day. Cast iron blocks aren't around too much anymore and with today's cooling systems on vehicles the weight savings of having an aluminum block car increase performance overall.

There is a reason manufacturers are using aluminum and I don't believe it is because it is cheaper.

What makes a 4G63's stock block better than a stock ecotec block? Most blocks in todays cars are not the weakpoint...and even the 4G63 block will not hold up from a rod going through it.

Ok, sorry I forgot you know everything :rolleyes:

What difference does it make? Neither block will be close to cracking or splitting at only 22lbs. Both can take it and love it.

Who cares really?

Oh noes!

Some mitsubishi block is stronger than a chevy block!

Why can't discussions stay discussions?

Every discussion becomes a who's e-penis is bigger?!?!!?

Why is the 4G so much stronger than the eco block? Oh right God up there doesn't need to explain himself, it must be because it's iron, get the fuck outta here...and the new LNF runs the 1/4 in any car in 3 seconds and makes 2837432984732987 HP and has a top speed of lightspeed plus one.

It is a fact because I say so.

:rolleyes:

ZOMG!

Can I have your member number??? You don't deserve it.

Have you seen the new Evo race an EVO IX???

I would like to nominate hokman for a ban, can I get a second??

You better know you are a new member and learn to watch your mouth. Don't talk so loud when you don't even know the obvious. NO I haven't seen a new Evo race an evo9.

You better know you are a new member and learn to watch your mouth. Don't talk so loud when you don't even know the obvious. NO I haven't seen a new Evo race an evo9.

Dude whats your big problem. All you guys need to calm down. You know how many busted ass 4g63s I have around. Yesterday I pulled a rod out of the side of a Galant 4g63. Its never the blocks. Its always some other weak part going through the block. If you want to argue a point, maybe you should focus on pistons. Thats where you problem lies. Both 4g63s and ecotecs have very weak stock pistons. Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that the aluminum block ecotec is dominating the professional world of fwd drag cars.

I don't think they realize that pretty much every modern day block can usually take 1000+hp.

It's not the PSI or the HP that causes the block to crack or break, it is the weaker pistons/rods/crank that break, sending metal chunks flying at massive speeds. That is what no block can handle. And usually the pistons/rods/crank breaks due to incorrect amounts of fuel in the cylinders. But I'm sure you know that. The most common way a block cracks is having someone set it down too hard when moving it.:lol:

2s0t0i6 should have said the stock internals can handle more, not the actual block.

And did you know that the ecotec motor has iron cylinder sleeves? :eek:

Edit: ^^^^^^^Beat me to it. :lol:

I guess the only thing that makes any sence here is, if you dont want an aluminum block, dont get a car with one.... (good luck). Everyone has choices to make. if you dont want to buy a car with a certin option, dont.

Dude whats your big problem. All you guys need to calm down. You know how many busted ass 4g63s I have around. Yesterday I pulled a rod out of the side of a Galant 4g63. Its never the blocks. Its always some other weak part going through the block. If you want to argue a point, maybe you should focus on pistons. Thats where you problem lies. Both 4g63s and ecotecs have very weak stock pistons. Correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that the aluminum block ecotec is dominating the professional world of fwd drag cars.

I beleive the Ecotec pistons are a bit weaker than the 4G63's stock pistons. Of course my take on it may be a little off because Cobalt owners were over spinning their blowers and melting #4's ringlands, but the impression I get from GM and what I read on here is the stock Ecotec pistons aren't good for much more than 300WHP, and 400WHP on stock pistons is a time bomb at best. The 4G63's limit on stock internals, hell even stock turbo is much, much higher than I've seen out of an Ecotec on these boards. Maybe the Sky/Redline guys are having better success, I'll check it out.

As far as the Ecotecs dominating the FWD drag world right now, yes they are. If they weren't something would be bad wrong. Who else besides the Ecotec guys have an unlimited parts bin, R&D and support from the factory? How many privately owned teams are competing VS factory backed teams? I give credit where it's dude, and the Cobalt drag cars are dominating. Now onto the street, how man 10 or 9 second privately owned Cobalts/IRL/G5's are there? Compare that to the number of 9 and 10 second privately owned Evo's and I think you'll see it's decidedly one sided in favor of the Evo.

I beleive the Ecotec pistons are a bit weaker than the 4G63's stock pistons. Of course my take on it may be a little off because Cobalt owners were over spinning their blowers and melting #4's ringlands, but the impression I get from GM and what I read on here is the stock Ecotec pistons aren't good for much more than 300WHP, and 400WHP on stock pistons is a time bomb at best. The 4G63's limit on stock internals, hell even stock turbo is much, much higher than I've seen out of an Ecotec on these boards. Maybe the Sky/Redline guys are having better success, I'll check it out.

As far as the Ecotecs dominating the FWD drag world right now, yes they are. If they weren't something would be bad wrong. Who else besides the Ecotec guys have an unlimited parts bin, R&D and support from the factory? How many privately owned teams are competing VS factory backed teams? I give credit where it's dude, and the Cobalt drag cars are dominating. Now onto the street, how man 10 or 9 second privately owned Cobalts/IRL/G5's are there? Compare that to the number of 9 and 10 second privately owned Evo's and I think you'll see it's decidedly one sided in favor of the Evo.

Yea because cobalt is 2wd.

Do some research first before you post about worrying about an aluminum block. If the 1450 hp ecotec (aluminum block/head) can handle 52 psi and 10.8:1 compression, I wouldn't be worried about 22 psi :nono:

They cut away the whole top protion of the cylinder and sleave it with Iron sleaves then drill the studs all the way through the engine. So it is slightly modified.

this thread is funny

The LNF is nothing like the LSJ its just based on the same platform. The LNF is more like the 2.4 then the LSJ, and the thing keeping people from making more then 300whp on the LSJ is the fact that the supercharger makes to much heat, and the pistons cant take it. The people that have switched to a turbo easily make over 300hp. Oh yea Honda blocks are NOT aluminum. Every Honda block up until the K20 and F20(s2000 engine) and engines made after them have been aluminum. Earlier engines have been Cast Iron. B,D,H, and old F series all have Cast iron blocks. Do you think if aluminum block were weak that pretty much every car manufacture would of switched to making their engines out of Aluminum? The B Series aluminum block DART makes for them is rated to 1200hp....So you might want to rethink your theory of Aluminum Blocks Being week.

the LNF is almost the exact same...all ecotecs only have minor differences....
the differences in LNF vs LSJ is a different head (VVT), and direct injection opposed to LSJ's multi-port FI

You don't have to tell me what the differences between the engines are. The blocks are the same for the most part yes(the lnf has stronger sleeves)...but nothing about the vvt head is like the LSJ head. You cant use anything out of that head on the LSJ. The cams and such are different, and with out several modifications to wiring and such you cant put a VVT head on the LSJ. Also the direct injection and vvt makes a big difference as it is a lot easier to make power when you have a vvt system and direct injection to work with. If you would of just read my post I said (ITS BASED ON THE SAME PLATFORM). Which is pretty much what you just said. I don't know about you but I don't consider an engine the same engine as another when it uses a completely different fuel injection system, and a vvt system.

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Thank You

another major problem is the tune on the car that is the problem with ricers they think a 1500 dollar turbo kit and they are ready to go, the new cobalt should be fine just like the ss.sc, they have put many hours into testing the thing

You don't have to tell me what the differences between the engines are. The blocks are the same for the most part yes(the lnf has stronger sleeves)...but nothing about the vvt head is like the LSJ head. You cant use anything out of that head on the LSJ. The cams and such are different, and with out several modifications to wiring and such you cant put a VVT head on the LSJ. Also the direct injection and vvt makes a big difference as it is a lot easier to make power when you have a vvt system and direct injection to work with. If you would of just read my post I said (ITS BASED ON THE SAME PLATFORM). Which is pretty much what you just said. I don't know about you but I don't consider an engine the same engine as another when it uses a completely different fuel injection system, and a vvt system.

i guess were in disagreement then...i would say its the same engine with only a few changes as stated...and its not a completely different fuel system....its the same returnless style fuel rail as in the LSJ...the injector location is the only change in the fuel system 9yes, i know this opens up a lot of new play area, but as far as the blocks go, theyre about the same...i believe all ecotecs have the casting for DI, and they just werent used until the LNF...atleast thats what i read off a wikipedia page...but i spose its very possible its not accurate

anyway, at the end of the day, we just look at the same thing in two different ways

Man you guys all forgot that the LNF has much larger water jackets, keeping block deformation to a minimum(not that it was a problem in the LSJ until 800hp). This is another reason the head will not swap over, the water passages are completely different.

:cssNET:

See this is why your wrong on the fuel system. It may share a returnless style fuel rail but thats where it stops its similarities. The LNF has two fuel pumps. One is located in the tank like most cars, but it also has a cam driven fuel pump is driven off the engine, and uses fuel pressures from 750psi to 1270psi. So yes the engine may have a fuel rail that has no return line but thats about where the fuel system similarities stop...I cant say I've read anything about all the blocks being prepped for Direct injection. To my knowledge you cant put a LSJ or any other Ecotec head on a LNF block easily(or at all I have read a few different answers for this), but Im going off what I have read/heard. I know that the LNF block deff has re-enforced piston walls. I haven't been able to find anything on the enlarged cooling passages like Archie says, but that could be another reason to add to the list that the LNF head isn't swappable.

hmm...didnt know the fuel pressure runs at different PSIs. Good to know

aluminum resists corrosion better, is lighter, conducts heat quicker, and has a better strength-to-weight ratio than iron, just to name a few reasons. Plus + its shiny!