fastest FWD car ever to run the 'ring. Here's some comparison times.(Nuringburg Germany Track)
8:20 - 148.320 - BMW M3 E36
8:20 - 148.320 - 2008 Honda NSX
8:20 - 148.320 - Porche 993 GT3
8:22 - BMW M3 E46
8:22 - BMW M Coupe
8:22- Mercedes-Benz C55
8:22.38- Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R
8:22.85 Cobalt SS (not yet official)
8:23 - Aston Martin DB7 GT
8:23 - Porsche Boxster S
8:23 - Porsche 996 Carrera
8:24 - Mercedes SLK 55 AMG
8:24 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi
8:25 - Audi RS4
8:25 -- 2007 BMW M5 Touring

wow im pretty impressed...lets c how many of those cars cost 40+g brand new...guess all of them cept the balt and sti

i would drive every one of those cars :lol:

i would drive every one of those cars :lol:

I couldn't agree with you more on that one.:cool:

It's amazing that it "supposedly" handles better than a STi.

It's amazing that it "supposedly" handles better than a STi.

uh no, its called acceleration cutie.

Something tells me that the ss times are a lil exaggerated.

I mean a db7 and an m5, half a second behind the skyline.......

this is old news.

Something tells me that the ss times are a lil exaggerated.

I mean a db7 and an m5, half a second behind the skyline.......

im with this guy. it just doesnt even look like it belongs on that list with those other cars. i mean the ss/tc is prolly gunna be around 24,000 while the majority of those cars are 35,000 and up....

im with this guy. it just doesnt even look like it belongs on that list with those other cars. i mean the ss/tc is prolly gunna be around 24,000 while the majority of those cars are 35,000 and up....

your point?
for $15k you can build a car that can crush all of those....

yea but that list is made up times from cars that were brand new when they ran on the track. unmodded, exactly how they were sold on the lots.

lol, you'll have to watch the video then. Cause it is a ride along for one complete circuit. The video runs 8:40 or something like that but that includes and intro and time after the car passes the start/finish line. So 8:22 is "official". I also think that MotorTrend termed this car "The fastest FWD car".

Big question though, will it live up to all the hype? I doubt it but we'll see.

yea ive seen the video. i saw it over a month ago when it first started goin around. i guess part of me just doesnt wanna believe it seems to unbelievable. but then again, it is pretty amazing that sub $25,000 car can hang with some of the best on the track.

where can i see this video at. its too hard to believe without seeing

youtube has it, type in 2008 ss on nurbergring or something like that

sounds as if the new balt ss actually handles, the tight turning sections of the track allow cars such as the NSX and well built stock fwd rides to achieve damn good times next to some of those. and awd doesn't guarantee the truest of traction always. awd loss of traction around a turn......scary. fwd loss of traction around a turn straighten a bit let a bit off the gas n' finish the turn with a gradual increase in acceleration.

so yea, i hella can imagine it's just as fast. haha and that m5 time was with the m button engaged releasing the 500hp. lol. goodbye m5.

not to mention the m5 weighs as much as a tank.

Yeah, definately old stuff on the SS/TC....I would like to see what the new Nissan GT-R ran bc it broke the track record according to a show I watched on the NAIAS (North American Int. Auto Show) on NBC the other day...They said that Nissan shattered the existing 1 lap record.....

your point?
for $15k you can build a car that can crush all of those....

and then you'd be comparing apples and oranges...

this is a list of stock cars, not modified. Price does get considered into a category as far as class most of the time.

the new gtr ran the track faster than the 911 turbo, and the vette z06.

the new gtr ran the track faster than the 911 turbo, and the vette z06.

I poop on the GTR, ZR1 will take the recored back and will do it on the tires that the car is sold with. Not this cut-slick BS from Nissan.


HONED AT THE 'RING
GTR chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno told PistonHeads that his baby had covered over 3000 miles at the Nordschleife and avoided other circuits as they were deemed 'too easy'.
Nissan's original target was to beat the 911 Turbo at the 'ring but they ended up worrying the Porsche Carrera GT.
They didn't beat the GT's 7min 32sec lap time, but got a 7.38 in semi-wet conditions.
'We used cut slick tyres' said Mizuno.
'I was not interested in full slick times as this bears no resemblance to a road tyre. 1.2G of force was being pulled in wet and over 2 in dry'.



http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing...?f=23&t=455380

You guys also have to remember, that not only is the SS/TC a little faster in the straights and handles a touch better, but I think the main difference is the brakes. When you mash those big Brembos, it probably feels like throwing an anchor out back.

^^^Holy quadruple post!! Delete some of that shit please. Thank you.

i want the skylineee

^^^Holy quadruple post!! Delete some of that shit please. Thank you.

As you wish grasshoppa.....:twothumbs

I just wana know how fast the SS/SC Balt was around the Ring...I heard it was tuned on the Ring just the the TC Balt.

These track times are great but where does the driver come into play? I'm sure they aren't all the same and some are better than others .

driver mod is a big part of it. somedrivers push cars harder than others. from the video the tack appeared wet and the driver was driving hard but i imagine it could've been pushed a little harder with the right conditions. either way 8:22 is nothing to snicker at if in fact the numbers are accurate. after i watched the video i pledged m allegiance to the tc.

why is it so hard to believe a cobalt can run a ring faster than cars that cost 10k more? that has nothing to do with how fast they are. cars that cost as much as some of those do arent high priced because of their speed totally . i believe the cobalt did it and can do it. but i also know if you put them in a straight line our cars will lose their ass towards the top end, atleast thats my opinion.

I'm not questioning the track times, I'm merely saying that it's hard to use these numbers as a true benchmark unless you have the same driver test all the cars . I'm sure there is a skill level difference between all the different jockey's . I think the TC is a great step forward over the SC in many ways , i think these cars are a good thing for the cobalt community in general . Just because i have an SC doesn't mean i'm on the "hate the TC bandwagon".

i don't belive that a FWD 260 HP/TQ car is only half a sec behind a dang Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R just no way and all those cars are RWD if not AWD!!!!! i call B.S.

i don't belive that a FWD 260 HP/TQ car is only half a sec behind a dang Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R just no way and all those cars are RWD if not AWD!!!!! i call B.S.

Whats the gtr weigh in at? second, its not a drag race its a circle. even if the gtr had 1k hp if it can not maintain high speeds in turns then yes a cobalt could beat it. im not saying its all true or anything i am just argueing just because a car is way more expensive and would normally smoke the cobalt, does not mean a cobalt couldnt complete a course quicker. i also believe turbos have an advantage over the sc, however, whats the difference in hp? 30? we dont even know what upgrades are going to be possible with the tc. for all we know its limitations might be less then potential power in an sc. there are alot of tc'ed 4 bangers running around, not too many of them are sporting a roots style blower. JMO. i think a good point here is, what does who ever published this article have to gain by bsing? unless they were paid off by gm ofcourse, but i dont see anything like that being the case. thats why i like gm, they like for their cars to be able to back up all the hype, unlike some other makers (cough.. ford)

Case and point, Bugatti Veyron. Fastest car in the world.....on a straight line.

ok iv serched for 4 hours now trying to find cobalt ss/sc times for nurburgring and well they dont exist on the internet i found about 40 different lists rangeing from the fastest car to 10:00.000 and the cobalt was no were to be found in any of them. now im sure it would run faster then a 10:00. in most of the offical lists there was a 05 ford focus ST that ran a 9:05 and i think it would be safe to assume that the sc balt is faster then that

i believe it. the hhr ss ran 8:43, which is what 5 seconds slower then a ms3. i surely believe it. i think its downright nasty.

I'd say the SS/SC is somewhere between TC Balts time of 8:22 - 8:39 of the MazdaSpeed3 / Honda S2000

The Real Deal ...

http://www.box.net/shared/static/7zlx0u5s8s.jpg

This is definitely plausible. Top Gear proved that an Evo 8 could handle better and out-do a Mercialago on a track with loads of turns. Nurburgring is a CURVY ass track, so HP has no bearing.

This is definitely plausible. Top Gear proved that an Evo 8 could handle better and out-do a Mercialago on a track with loads of turns. Nurburgring is a CURVY ass track, so HP has no bearing.

And the STI is competition for that, I would have a hard time believing that a fwd cobalt can handle better than an STI

And the STI is competition for that, I would have a hard time believing that a fwd cobalt can handle better than an STI

The only main problem in handling with AWD and FWD cars is the under-steering problems.
They can both under-steer dependent on the suspension. An STI with a crap suspension VS a 'balt with nice suspension, the STI would lose when it would come to handling. Now, I'm not saying that AWD isn't generally better, but I am saying that under specific specifications and conditions, FWD is grossly under-rated compared to AWD.

I was just watching some of the coverage on speed yesterday from daytona for the GT style racing and they had one cobalt onin the race in which they were talking about it's dominance over the past years. They interviewed the driver of the "01" car and asked him about it. He said that this year is the "08" model in which GM gave it some more hp with the "turbo" engine going in and increased the brakes in the front but that the car weighs an additional 200lbs this year and said that it's tuff to manuerver the car because it is heavier.
Almost as if he wanted the SC back.
kinda funny

Well is Heinricy isn't complaining, we shouldn't be complaining. All you have to do is tear apart the inside of your car and !BAM! you get that 200lbs back. Wait, hold up. The S/C was 2850lbs last time I checked and the T/C is 2950lbs - how is that 200lbs?

All I know is the driver was saying that it was 200lbs heavire this year for the LNF

Well is Heinricy isn't complaining, we shouldn't be complaining. All you have to do is tear apart the inside of your car and !BAM! you get that 200lbs back. Wait, hold up. The S/C was 2850lbs last time I checked and the T/C is 2950lbs - how is that 200lbs?

LSJ SS was 2950lbs

a stock ms3 out handles an sti,and its bein proven...so i guess a fwd with good factory suspension can out handle a car that costs 15+k more...but nothing touchs the evo's handling stock vs stock

it said 2911lbs. on the sticker inside the drivers door. i'm not sure if its curb weight, with fluids or not though.

a stock ms3 out handles an sti,and its bein proven...so i guess a fwd with good factory suspension can out handle a car that costs 15+k more...but nothing touchs the evo's handling stock vs stock

GSXR 1000 :lol:

j/k

The video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urwJVnWHjiI
Eight minutes, 40 second "tour" around Nurburgring...

so wait.... am I correct in thinking that suddenly a set of brembo's in the front a turbo swap make this car suddenly that much better? i'm not saying it's impossible, but there has to be more to it.

so wait.... am I correct in thinking that suddenly a set of brembo's in the front a turbo swap make this car suddenly that much better? i'm not saying it's impossible, but there has to be more to it.

Understand, that if the brakes only cut down on stopping time by say 5 tenths of a second from 60-0, would mean that means 16 hundredths of a second from 60-20. Figure every single turn and braking point on the Green Ring. Those 16 hundredths adds up to a lot. I would figure the braking alone makes up about 10-15 seconds of time on the Green. Then take into account the extra 15-25hp, 40+ torque, and then add in the increased tire width, and the tighter suspension. All of those things make a lot of sense now, huh?

It's still fwd though.

that is very impressive indeed

It's still fwd though.

Your point being what exactly?

The only disadvantage to racing a fwd car is on the drag strip. It is fine going around turns, because when you lose traction, it is extremely predictable, and you don't lose much time. Compare that to an awd car losing traction. Like explained earlier, it isn't nearly as predictable.

That is, unless you are a pro driver, and know exactly what to do on every car. But since 99% of the people on this forum aren't pro drivers,...:twothumbs

i want to see what kind of times the MS3 can pull with just it on the track. i was talking to a friend who has a speed3 and he said when they got tested, there was motorbike traffic as well of the course so they had to watch out for them. he claims they would be in the loww 8:20's also, but i can't find any video/infor on the speed3 running by themselves

It is funny how people that do not have Cobalts& even SS/SC owners call BS on this. If you ever get one out on a road course you will know & believe that the car is for real. You may read too many magazine that drool over higher priced cars(WRX,STI,ect) but give no credit to the Cobalt. I had the drivers of a Boxter S, modified WRX,E46 M3,ect coming over to check out my stock balt (air box mod& rear sway bar) because of the performace on track (@ Barbers Motorsport Park)...and mine is not even a G85 car! The cars are for REAL...I know (from EXPERIENCE,not opinion) & the people I passed on track or could not catch me know to. BTW: after over 100 miles in 2 days of HARD track driving the stock brakes are up to the task! Like I said....This is my experience, not the opinion of a magazine!

a stock ms3 out handles an sti,and its bein proven...so i guess a fwd with good factory suspension can out handle a car that costs 15+k more...but nothing touchs the evo's handling stock vs stock


You do realize you just contradicted yourself with the words I bolded. An Evo is the same car as at the STI only cosmetically different (and it has a shittier interior than the STI too). What you meant to say was "but nothing touchs the evo's handling once a few grand is put into suspension/performance upgrades"

after over 100 miles in 2 days of HARD track driving the stock brakes are up to the task! Like I said....This is my experience, not the opinion of a magazine!

the brakes are indeed good i took my balt up to about 140 and ran out of room, braked just as well from 140-60 as 60-0 and still had room, not saying that the rotors weren't ridged all to hell after that but they werent warped and they grabbed just as well until i put on the stoptech rotors and hawk pads about 6 months later, shit now the difference is probably about 2-3 hundreths g graking, like i would know. My buddy has a lateral g meter in his wrx and that thing is awsome and .52 g acceleration is also awsome just to let yall know( dont tell anybody) i gained 25whp and 18 wtq from some hose clamps the other day on the dyno.:cool:

so wait.... am I correct in thinking that suddenly a set of brembo's in the front a turbo swap make this car suddenly that much better? i'm not saying it's impossible, but there has to be more to it.

remember how in video games when u add some brakes it improves handling?...well this is how the ss/tc works..hehehehe

i don't belive that a FWD 260 HP/TQ car is only half a sec behind a dang Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R just no way and all those cars are RWD if not AWD!!!!! i call B.S.

Well keep in mind that in stock form the GT-R's aren't amazingly fast. I'd say the same or slightly better then an Evo.

But still I find that time hard to believe. I'll believe it when I see those things in person.

If it is indeed true then thats a pretty good bang for your buck. Thats a big if though...:lol:

You do realize you just contradicted yourself with the words I bolded. An Evo is the same car as at the STI only cosmetically different (and it has a shittier interior than the STI too). What you meant to say was "but nothing touchs the evo's handling once a few grand is put into suspension/performance upgrades"

The EVO AND STi are two completely different cars. wtf are you smoking my friend?
The new Evo X destroys everything lol

I hate people who have no clue wtf there talking about just randomly post crap that infects everybody else who dont have clue, making more dumb and pointless posts.

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR
Subaru Impreza WRX STi

Those look like different cars just judging by the name :eek:


and again with the AWD v FWD bullshit.

AWD has many advantages, but throw in a lot of turns and non professional drivers things change.. Dragstrip and wet conditons is when AWD shines

Thats about it.

I don't know all the fuss is about, when everyone cries video's for proof, and they come up with one they call BS, because of what kind of car it is. if this had been a 350z or the evo9 or 10 which ever one is out nothing would have been said, wouldn've been expected and all the praise it would have gotten. but since its a chevy cobalt ss it is BS. the video tells it all.

Listen for me to trade in my GTO for an HHR SS people think I am crazy until I take them around an autocross track. This new suspension setup is spot on HHR SS is the most neutral car I have ever driven and the Cobalt SS is setup up the same way I have no doubt the Cobalt will pull near that time with any experienced driver. Every person that I let drive my car cant believe it and unless you drive the Cobalt SS/TC its hard to believe I mean I traded it my dream car for the cobalt ss ugly sister so their claim I believe are 100 percent accurate.

Listen for me to trade in my GTO for an HHR SS people think I am crazy until I take them around an autocross track. This new suspension setup is spot on HHR SS is the most neutral car I have ever driven and the Cobalt SS is setup up the same way I have no doubt the Cobalt will pull near that time with any experienced driver. Every person that I let drive my car cant believe it and unless you drive the Cobalt SS/TC its hard to believe I mean I traded it my dream car for the cobalt ss ugly sister so their claim I believe are 100 percent accurate.

well steppin up from a heavy ass goat to a lighter compact car with little better suspension is a big diffrence to you,but not to a ss/sc owner or a compact car owner who already has a car that weights as much as the hhr ss,and maybe handles little worse than it

well steppin up from a heavy ass goat to a lighter compact car with little better suspension is a big diffrence to you,but not to a ss/sc owner or a compact car owner who already has a car that weights as much as the hhr ss,and maybe handles little worse than it

Are you seriously saying I dont know anything, I have drove many high performance vehicles on and off track some being, Ferrari 360 modena(my cousins), SL65 AMG (most fun my exs's car wish I didnt it break it off with her), numerous Z06s, more corvettes than I can count, and an 04 Viper SRT-10 which was set up for scca t1 racing(unfortunately the guys garage got burnt down and trying to find a replacement he is thinking of an ZR1 so hopefully I will get the chance to test that one out). All these I had extensive time in so dont tell me I dont know what a good handling car is that is why I hate the HHR seats they provide no support for competitive driving. And all im saying is I have never been in a stock FWD vehicle that had in excess of 200hp and not had understeer in a turn while accelerating the HHR does not. The GTO was an awesome car if you knew how to drive it the problem is I put too many mods on it and not enough rubber on the track which made it a great drift car but not a good track car. But what do I know I was just throwing out my opinion I will shut up now since I dont know anything I quess its time to go into lurk mode again.:bye:

Are you seriously saying I dont know anything, I have drove many high performance vehicles on and off track some being, Ferrari 360 modena(my cousins), SL65 AMG (most fun my exs's car wish I didnt it break it off with her), numerous Z06s, more corvettes than I can count, and an 04 Viper SRT-10 which was set up for scca t1 racing(unfortunately the guys garage got burnt down and trying to find a replacement he is thinking of an ZR1 so hopefully I will get the chance to test that one out). All these I had extensive time in so dont tell me I dont know what a good handling car is that is why I hate the HHR seats they provide no support for competitive driving. And all im saying is I have never been in a stock FWD vehicle that had in excess of 200hp and not had understeer in a turn while accelerating the HHR does not. The GTO was an awesome car if you knew how to drive it the problem is I put too many mods on it and not enough rubber on the track which made it a great drift car but not a good track car. But what do I know I was just throwing out my opinion I will shut up now since I dont know anything I quess its time to go into lurk mode again.:bye:

no im not saying that u dont knw anything about cars,what i meant is the gto is a heavy car,and upgrading to an lighter car does somewhat improve handling..i drove the gto and power is there,but seems kinda heavy.

no im not saying that u dont knw anything about cars,what i meant is the gto is a heavy car,and upgrading to an lighter car does somewhat improve handling..i drove the gto and power is there,but seems kinda heavy.

GTO was a fat pig and sloppy.

Oh god.. GTO is mentioned. Lock this thread before it gets worse.

Sorry I wouldnt have even mentioned the GTO didnt realize it was such a problem here sorry bout that im new.

price does not mean if its a bad ass or not.
vw bugs that are 11sec cars normaly aspirated.
price= the name brand and amedities along with the important stuff.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=mQPr0TQXe5Q

here is a vid

I just saw a vid of the 09 Caddilac CTS-V running the 'ring in under 8 minutes. The time was 7:59.32. Video is on YouTube.

Edmunds did a review on the SS/TC

They got 0-60mph in 5.8
1/4 mile went by in 14.0 @ 103mph.

im not doubting it... this car isnt built for 1320... its built for track... though its very easly capable of doing 14 flat... im guessing we will be seeing lots of people running 14.5s or 14.2... all depends on track, weather, temp, wind, driver... im sure they kept running 14.2 untill they hit flat 14...

im sure they kept running 14.2 untill they hit flat 14...

How are you sure? For all we know they could have kept running 14.5s but then had a 75 mph tailwind