Ward’s has been issuing its “Top 10 Engines” list for a dozen years now, and this year’s list, like others, is filled with internal combustion goodness. In alphabetical order:

Audi 2L FSI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Audi A3)
Audi 4.2L DOHC V-8 (Audi S4)
BMW 3L DOHC I-6 (330i)
DCX 5.7L Hemi Magnum OHV V-8 (Dodge Charger R/T)
Ford 4.6L SOHC V-8 (Mustang GT)
GM 2L supercharged DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Cobalt SS)
GM 2.8L turbocharged DOHC V-6 (Saab 9-3 Aero)
Mazda 2.3L DISI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Mazdaspeed 6)
Nissan 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35 6MT)
Toyota 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)

Source: http://autoblog.com/entry/1234000323071930/

Awesome :thumb:

LSJ! LSJ! LSJ! LSJ! LSJ! :guns:

Sweet!! I wonder what Honda boys who love to diss domestic engines have to say about that?!

Sweet!! I wonder what Honda boys who love to diss domestic engines have to say about that?!

lol, let's ask them

Sweet!! I wonder what Honda boys who love to diss domestic engines have to say about that?!

Stuff like this makes me love my car more and more

I was wondering how credible is ward's top ten list??? Any one know? Any way LSJ all the way.

Major league credible!

Sweet!! I wonder what Honda boys who love to diss domestic engines have to say about that?!
i'm not a honda fanboi or diss domestic engines but all 4cyl engines in that list are F/I so kinda hard for a N/A honda engine to be on that list. all other engines are there are v6's and v8's.

i'm not a honda fanboi or diss domestic engines but all 4cyl engines in that list are F/I so kinda hard for a N/A honda engine to be on that list. all other engines are there are v6's and v8's.

so what are you trying to say if we took a s/c off the engine it would now be an unrealiable p.o.s.?

so what are you trying to say if we took a s/c off the engine it would now be an unrealiable piece of shit?
calm down, i never said that or meant to say that.

so what are you trying to say if we took a s/c off the engine it would now be an unrealiable p.o.s.?
Actually if you took off the supercharger it would be pretty weak on account of the piston's low compression ratio.

The Type S' engine is one of the most efficient n/a performance engines considering it's bhp output and small displacement.

I have no disrepect for the Honda brand, just the ignorant fanbois that come with every brand! :cssNET:

I have no disrepect for the Honda brand, just the ignorant fanbois that come with every brand! :cssNET:
unfortunantly that's a problem w/ every vehicle make out there.

Notice the iVTEC crap is not on there........ I guess high rev's doesn't mean $hit. That is awsome!!!!!!! Makes me feel better.

Great choice....

Every time I give her some gas, I agree more and more that this engine rocks.

::tear:: i'm soo happppyyyyyy

what about ...the other cobalts with the 2.2 and 2.4 ........:cry:

what about ...the other cobalts with the 2.2 and 2.4 ........:cry:

Well, they don't have the power or punch of the 2.0L Ecotec, but just remember, they're all the same block and family, so we "other" Ecotec engine can rejoice in this news a little bit too. :twothumbs

"GM’s twin-turbo 2.8L V6 disappoints me just a bit from a power standpoint, but maybe it performs better than its numbers would indicate."

what the crap?

"GM’s twin-turbo 2.8L V6 disappoints me just a bit from a power standpoint, but maybe it performs better than its numbers would indicate."

what the crap?

I don't believe its a twin-turbo.

What criteria does Ward's use when rating their engine choices?

Performance Economy and overall reliability.

I guess my post (http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9419) wans't good enough to be front page.... :cry:

Nobody saw it, Cuz it was at midnight.

Sweet!! I wonder what Honda boys who love to diss domestic engines have to say about that?!

What is your point? Do you think your motor is better then all Honda motors?

What is your point? Do you think your motor is better then all Honda motors?


No, I'm sure they make some really keen race engines.

I've been following this ranking for a while because my old car's engine (a 3800 V6) was on it for several years. It's cool that my new car's LSJ is also on it now. One thing I don't understand though... how could some form of the Chevy small block not be included? I mean that has to be most prolific, reliable, and proven performance engine on the market.

What is your point? Do you think your motor is better then all Honda motors?


way to try to start a fight ...he wasn’t implying that his engine is better than all Honda motors but instead making light on the fact that most import (specifically Honda) people think that just because a their engines are Japanese they are superior which isn’t the case.

way to try to start a fight ...he wasn’t implying that his engine is better than all Honda motors but instead making light on the fact that most import (specifically Honda) people think that just because a their engines are Japanese they are superior which isn’t the case.
And what he said wasn't trying to start a fight? So I ask again do you guys really think your motor is better then let's say the k20A?

Yes I do

Yes I do

Cool... you probably think your motor is better then the boxer motors in Subarus too. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cool... you probably think your motor is better then the boxer motors in Subarus too. :lol: :lol: :lol:

in some aspects yes ...like ease to work on ..however I am a big fan of subie boxer engines ..being that we have 2 of them in my laneway

Learn the correct terminology.

2.0L LSJ Supercharged 4 cylinder Ecotec.

There has been more than 4 cylinder Ecotecs.

Learn the correct terminology.

2.0L LSJ Supercharged 4 cylinder Ecotec.

There has been more than 4 cylinder Ecotecs.

So there are 6 and 8 cylinder Ecotecs?

What is your point? Do you think your motor is better then all Honda motors?


In stock form, yes I do!

speaking of the 9-3 ..my friend mackenzie ( chevy bloak like myself) is lookin at getting this
http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=192838525&dealer_id=57218266&car_year=2003&model=9-3&bkms=1134442288373&lang=en&isp=y&start_year=2003&certified=&search_type=both&distance=100&make=SAAB&min_price=1&address=48823&advanced=&end_year=2006&max_price=17000&cardist=66

So there are 6 and 8 cylinder Ecotecs?

In Australia, There was 6 cylinders, But they quit making them, When Holden Revised the Monaro. I will try to find a pic.

Is that a turboed 2.0L that I see Waylin22?

So there are 6 and 8 cylinder Ecotecs?


http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1977/dafd4zd.jpg

In stock form, yes I do!
The S2000 motor puts a hurtin on it. N/A!!

Is that a turboed 2.0L that I see Waylin22?


I believe so yes sir! she cant drive a stick very well so she wants an auto

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1977/dafd4zd.jpg

Thanks!

The S2000 motor puts a hurtin on it. N/A!!

How So ???

I hope you are not talking about Hp/L ...I really thought you were smarter than that

you must know hp/l is irrelevant

And this too:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3725/ecotec3vengeanceturbomanifolds.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1977/dafd4zd.jpg
That isn't a 2.0l like I orginally said.

Dude, I said there had been MORE THAN 4 CYLINDERS! Not 2.0 6's.

The S2000 motor puts a hurtin on it. N/A!!


Yes, if you abuse the clutch that car is something. I have raced a couple from 5 mph roll and it was even! From a dig like I said, if you abuse the clutch, they can motor!

I am bowing out before I get banned.

That isn't a 2.0l like I orginally said.


you had no restriction on displacement ...


your deflecting now ...stay on point weasy

How So ???

I hope you are not talking about Hp/L ...I really thought you were smarter than that

you must know hp/l is irrelevant

Read the original topic... it is very relevant. S2000s are faster also in everything. Once again N/A!

you had no restriction on displacement ...


your deflecting now ...stay on point weasy

No, my post was deleted where I had originally said, 'k20a> 2.0l supercharged ecotec' or something like that.

Yes, if you abuse the clutch that car is something. I have raced a couple from 5 mph roll and it was even! From a dig like I said, if you abuse the clutch, they can motor!

Haha... Hondas put clutches that can handle the stock power and a lot more in their cars.

Read the original topic... it is very relevant. S2000s are faster also in everything. Once again N/A!


I don’t see what NA has to do with it ..but as far as comparing the flagship Honda to the cobalt seems a little sad (particularly when all of us who have raced a S2k know they can loose)

I think since your going to bring up how fast the S2k is you should pit it against a vette as they are both 2 seat F/R sports cars (with a similar price) ..however the S2k fails hard here ..even if you compare their engines ..the S2k engine is IIRC a few pounds lighter than the vette occupies around the same dimensions (despite being 4 cyl vs 8) and overall as a car gets worse fuel economy and costs more to produce....it must be an amazing engine though ...

things like hp/l don’t make great engines there are many factors which come into play (the only people who care about hp/l are people who think VTEC is big deal) I guess its something to cling to when discusing how well engines look on paper and nothing else ...

I don’t see what NA has to do with it ..but as far as comparing the flagship Honda to the cobalt seems a little sad (particularly when all of us who have raced a S2k know they can loose)

I think since your going to bring up how fast the S2k is you should pit it against a vette as they are both 2 seat F/R sports cars (with a similar price) ..however the S2k fails hard here ..even if you compare their engines ..the S2k engine is IIRC a few pounds lighter than the vette occupies around the same dimensions (despite being 4 cyl vs 8) and overall as a car gets worse fuel economy and costs more to produce....it must be an amazing engine though ...

things like hp/l don’t make great engines there are many factors which come into play (the only people who care about hp/l are people who think VTEC is big deal) I guess its something to cling to when discusing how well engines look on paper and nothing else ...


HAHA show me where you can get a brand new vette for 34k and worse fuel economy? You guys can beat GTOs and LS1 f-bodies too. Any car can lose. Doesn't mean your car is faster or better. And why are you deflecting the issue... you guys said your motor is better then all Honda motors stock to stock. I just proved that wrong. Kthxhugsbye.

<img src="http://cobaltss.net/articles/eco.jpg" align="left" border="0" hspace="5" vspace="5">Ward’s has been issuing its “Top 10 Engines” list for a dozen years now, and this year’s list, like others, is filled with internal combustion goodness. In alphabetical order:

Audi 2L FSI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Audi A3)
Audi 4.2L DOHC V-8 (Audi S4)
BMW 3L DOHC I-6 (330i)
DCX 5.7L Hemi Magnum OHV V-8 (Dodge Charger R/T)
Ford 4.6L SOHC V-8 (Mustang GT)
GM 2L supercharged DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Cobalt SS)
GM 2.8L turbocharged DOHC V-6 (Saab 9-3 Aero)
Mazda 2.3L DISI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Mazdaspeed 6)
Nissan 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35 6MT)
Toyota 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)

Source: http://autoblog.com/entry/1234000323071930/
How'd that peice of shit make it in there? :wtf:

HAHA show me where you can get a brand new vette for 34k and worse fuel economy? You guys can beat GTOs and LS1 f-bodies too. Any car can lose. Doesn't mean your car is faster or better. And why are you deflecting the issue... you guys said your motor is better then all Honda motors stock to stock. I just proved that wrong. Kthxhugsbye.

no you asked if it was better than specific honda motors we told you why we think that

I didnt say it costs less to buy a vette the engine costs less to produce ...than a S2k engine (we were talking about engines till you deflected and said the S2k was "faster at everything")

yes it gets worse fuel ecoonomy ....the s2k engine has to work hard the vette can turn that tall 6th gear with all its low end torque

you really only proved how narowminded you are when it comes to honda... ( I also learned that you think hp/l was something important which made me lol..)

HAHA show me where you can get a brand new vette for 34k and worse fuel economy? You guys can beat GTOs and LS1 f-bodies too. Any car can lose. Doesn't mean your car is faster or better. And why are you deflecting the issue... you guys said your motor is better then all Honda motors stock to stock. I just proved that wrong. Kthxhugsbye.

1) 34k for a S2K is a rip off when you can get a GTO for the same price and have twice the car

2) well if honda motors are so great then why arnt any on the list ;)

3) how is this guy not banned all he does is flame our cars, motors, and everything anyone has ever said on this site. what happened to the trolls will be banned cause im pretty sure he fits that pretty well!!!!

He can't afford a Honda! HaHaHa!! He drives a 25 year old piece!! In what way have you proved anything Wasey13. What about when you said an auto Altima would take an SS/SC? Did you ever get proof this? :thumbsdow

He can't afford a Honda! HaHaHa!! He drives a 25 year old piece!!

who?

no you asked if it was better than specific honda motors we told you why we think that

I didnt say it costs less to buy a vette the engine costs less to produce ...than a S2k engine (we were talking about engines till you deflected and said the S2k was "faster at everything")

yes it gets worse fuel ecoonomy ....the s2k engine has to work hard the vette can turn that tall 6th gear with all its low end torque

you really only proved how narowminded you are when it comes to honda... ( I also learned that you think hp/l was something important which made me lol..)

How did I "deflect" anything?

S2000 20/25 mpg, Corvettes 18/28, 17/27, 16,26. Yeah they get better gas mileage.:rolleyes:

Once again read this discussion, hp/l matters in this discussion.

1) 34k for a S2K is a rip off when you can get a GTO for the same price and have twice the car

2) well if honda motors are so great then why arnt any on the list

3) how is this guy not banned all he does is flame our cars, motors, and everything anyone has ever said on this site. what happened to the trolls will be banned cause im pretty sure he fits that pretty well!!!!
1) How is it twice the car?

2) Good question... maybe they wanted to spread the glory around cause last year there were 2 or 3 Honda motors on there and the year before and the year before that.

3) Why do you guys want me banned? Because I don't kiss your ass and say the Cobalt SS/SC is the best car and I say Honda makes some superior products?? You can not find one post where I have bashed the Cobalts. I like them, they are good cars. They are just not spectacular, like they could have or should have been.

How did I "deflect" anything?

S2000 20/25 mpg, Corvettes 18/28, 17/27, 16,26. Yeah they get better gas mileage.:rolleyes:

Once again read this discussion, hp/l matters in this discussion. Pretty sad you can't spell naRrowminded right.



Nice links to where you got those stats from but even when you pull stats you show how the Vette gets better highway mileage

seriously I make a typo and that’s all you have .... when people criticize spelling its because they can't argue the facts


I dont have to RE-read the discussion hp/l is never relavant ..thats not how great engines are determined

I know I wouldn't waste my money on one! That car is gross!!
Which?

Nice links to where you got those stats from but even when you pull stats you show how the Vette gets better highway mileage

seriously I make a typo and that’s all you have .... when people criticize spelling its because they can't argue the facts


I dont have to RE-read the discussion hp/l is never relavant ..thats not how great engines are determined
From Honda.com and Chevy.com last time I checked 90+% of people mostly drive in the city.

Seriously when people start to insult other people it is because they can't argue the facts.

How is hp/l not relavant and mpg is??? At least hp/l has to only do with the engine which is what this discussion is about. Mpg has a lot to do with weight and gearing. Tell me how great engines are determined.:rolleyes:

From Honda.com and Chevy.com last time I checked 90+% of people mostly drive in the city.

Seriously when people start to insult other people it is because they can't argue the facts.

How is hp/l not relavant and mpg is??? At least hp/l has to only do with the engine which is what this discussion is about. Mpg has a lot to do with weight and gearing. Tell me how great engines are determined.:rolleyes:

because you can have low hp/l and have a huge amount of torque and an impressive power band example viper or you can have high hp/l and very small amount of torque and a very unusable power band ex s2000 ...peak horsepower is great but if you don’t have the area under the curve to back it up its not all that useful and a great engine should be one with a useable power band


nobody buys cars because they have a high hp/l ....people do buy cars with fuel economy in mind which makes it a much more relevant stat


I hope I didn't make a typo or you will actually have something to argue ...

because you can have low hp/l and have a huge amount of torque and an impressive power band example viper or you can have high hp/l and very small amount of torque and a very unusable power band ex s2000 ...peak horsepower is great but if you don’t have the area under the curve to back it up its not all that useful and a great engine should be one with a useable power band


nobody buys cars because they have a high hp/l ....people do buy cars with fuel economy in mind which makes it a much more relevant stat


I hope I didn't make a typo or you will actually have something to argue ...

haha... explain how S2000s power band is not useful. This will be good.

Might I mention this is on the front page? Visitors will click on it, and get scared off.

I know I wouldn't waste my money on one! That car is gross!!
Which?
Bump for a response.

Obviously not the SS since I own it.

Closed for cleaning.

Here is the link to the Wards Auto article that gives some insight into the list. Good read.

http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_wards_names_best/index.htm

Here is the link to the Wards Auto article that gives some insight into the list. Good read.

http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_wards_names_best/index.htm

Why are they talking about hp/l that is useless???:rolleyes:

Why are they talking about hp/l that is useless???:rolleyes:


Then only time you would talk about Hp/l is for countries with displacement tax ...and since this is an international article it makes sense they would put it in there ..but it is no indication of how good an engine is ...respond to hp/l in the other thread ...no need to get into it here again

From what I heard, I think our engine, ss/sc, can handle up to 300+ hp with stock parts. That tells me that it is a very well built engine in stock form. Let me know if anything I am saying is false. Yes I am a former 2000 Si owner and know that Honda makes really good engines but for my/our ss/sc to be on this list and not a Honda makes me feel really good.
:thumb: :cssNET: :usa:

From what I heard, I think our engine, ss/sc, can handle up to 300+ hp with stock parts. That tells me that it is a very well built engine in stock form. Let me know if anything I am saying is false. Yes I am a former 2000 Si owner and know that Honda makes really good engines but for my/our ss/sc to be on this list and not a Honda makes me feel really good.
:thumb: :cssNET: :usa:


400 hp for the lsj

Then only time you would talk about Hp/l is for countries with displacement tax ...and since this is an international article it makes sense they would put it in there ..but it is no indication of how good an engine is ...respond to hp/l in the other thread ...no need to get into it here again

No it is useless, they are complete idiots for using hp/l as part of their criteria. Maybe the LSJ shouldn't be on there, now.:rolleyes:

No it is useless, they are complete idiots for using hp/l as part of their criteria. Maybe the LSJ shouldn't be on there, now.:rolleyes:


who said it was part of their criteria they simply mention its hp/l they don’t state that’s why they picked it. you seemed to think the S2k engine should have been there because it had a higher hp/l which I pointed out meant nothing in terms of how well an engine performs ...


again please discuss this in the thread I set up not this one ...

who said it was part of their criteria they simply mention its hp/l they don’t state that’s why they picked it. you seemed to think the S2k engine should have been there because it had a higher hp/l which I pointed out meant nothing in terms of how well an engine performs ...


again please discuss this in the thread I set up not this one ...

When did I say the S2000 motor should be on there?? Stop putting words in my mouth. How does hp/l mean nothing if they brought it up???

No.

When did I say the S2000 motor should be on there?? Stop putting words in my mouth. How does hp/l mean nothing if they brought it up???

No.


you said ...do you think its better than the s2000 motor ...

since you think its better than the LSJ and the LSJ is on the list ..you must think the S2k engine should be there ...

why do you think the LSJ dosn't deserve to be on this list ?

you said ...do you think its better than the s2000 motor ...

since you think its better than the LSJ and the LSJ is on the list ..you must think the S2k engine should be there ...

why do you think the LSJ dosn't deserve to be on this list ?

There are a lot of better motors in the automotive world. They just put it on there because it was new. 4g63, ej25, k20a... 3 motors that are better in everyway except maybe gas mileage for the first two.

With that I am out, got to work. Keep putting words in my mouth, so you can continue to argue. :cssNET:

And what he said wasn't trying to start a fight? So I ask again do you guys really think your motor is better then let's say the k20A?
how come everywhere you go you troll like crazy? Who are we trying to start fights with our fellow cobalt enthusiasts? This is exclusively a site dedicated to cobalts and yes we enjoy them and feel they are a great car. We don't need you to come in here and " set us straight".
Why do you keep joining these sites?

^^Because that's what trolls do!! They go from to one sight, wear out there welcome and move to the next sight. :cussing:

how come everywhere you go you troll like crazy? Who are we trying to start fights with our fellow cobalt enthusiasts? This is exclusively a site dedicated to cobalts and yes we enjoy them and feel they are a great car. We don't need you to come in here and " set us straight".
Why do you keep joining these sites?

I was invited to this site.

^^Because that's what trolls do!! They go from to one sight, wear out there welcome and move to the next sight.

Troll? Because I know more about your cars then you do? And I know it is not the greatest car ever?

SITE! Website!

Read the original topic... it is very relevant. S2000s are faster also in everything. Once again N/A!

Read the original topic... Speed wasnt the only factor... If I am repeating this sorry I didnt want to read through anymore garbage.....

Wasey... nobody started a fight except you... its evidenced by you 3 posts versus 1 from anyone else... your trying to take something out on someone and this isnt the place to do it

Read the original topic... Speed wasnt the only factor... If I am repeating this sorry I didnt want to read through anymore garbage.....

Wasey... nobody started a fight except you... its evidenced by you 3 posts versus 1 from anyone else... your trying to take something out on someone and this isnt the place to do it
Really now? I guess you didn't read enough. 3 posts versus 1?? They keep editing.

um......... yea

if you ask me, both engines are good, both cars are cool. but your compairing two different cars here. compair the civic to it.. thats not on the list. becides the new SI,, the civics arn't that great, unless you have a turbo.. Every other kid in my town has a civic.. with a fart can and and intake.. its sad when they get their asses handed to them by my
s-10 with the 4.3 v-6 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice!!!

S2000's are very nice. A friend of mine in the neigborhood has one. He paid A LOT of money for his though, almost double my SS when all mods are in.

We were out back in Sept and someone in a P5 at Sunoco wanted to know what version of the Miata it WAS !! My buddy just hung his head... how many people mistake these two cars ...

i want one

oh, wait.. i have one. nevermind

RC aircraft engines have more hp per litre than any automobile engine. So put one in your car if you think HP per Litre matters so much! Hp matters, hp per litre don't mean anything in the real world.

NICE :twothumbs

actually i hate to break it to all of you 2.2L and 2.4L owners, but the 2.0L s/c is the only kind in its class, in fact its the only engine offered by gm (i kno this for sure with 4 cyl not sure about the rest but i believe so) that is actually built completely in germany. hence getting its reliability and superb performance. just thought i would let all the 2.0L owners know how great of an engine they own...
:) no hard feelings, keep in mind that doesnt mean the 2.2L or 2.4L are bad engines. it just means the 2.0 is a german built engine....and of course we all know those crazy germans know how to build cars!!

Thats pretty cool. It is a great motor! I am just kind of curious why the mustang GT motor is on there? lol

One little thing I would like to point out. Peak HP and lb is worthless to look at. Instead you have to look at the average across the usable range and also the driveable range.

Alot of Jap engines have a really high HP, but it is way way way up in the rpm curve and their average HP is shockingly low. Meaning you gotta rev them up really high to get that HP. Plus their torque curves are often even worse, not quiet as bad as the HP to start but it really never gets good.

Even the LSJ suffers a little bit in HP (though its HP is nearly a straight 45 degree line, instead of a bow) and torque (first 1k is weak and doesn't get into it's power band until 3k) but if you look at it's average HP and Torque from about 2k to RL and compare it to the averages for a k20a, you might be shocked. :cool:

*EDIT*

Want an even bigger shocker, compare it from 2k to 1k short of RL. :twothumbs

bump good thread