HPS pads is not good enough!

[venom09]

HPS front and back with re machined rotors. First brake pads on a roadcourse car is very driver specific. I usually go for a somewhat less aggressive padal so I can modulate the force as I heel and toe. If it is too aggressive I find it harder to stay out of the ABS during very hard braking and downshifting at the same time. Most racers I know want the most aggressive pads on their cars though... The HPS is a STREET pad nothing more! They are perfect for the street with great pedal feel. Nice and soft on initial bite that gets firmer as you get on them a little harder. The wife would like them for sure...hehe But get on the HARD like I do is when they show their street compound. Pedal is too soft and need a desent amount of force to provoke the ABS. Will know by the weekend how they handle severe track duty, so far I am not impressed at all. The stock pads was better IMHO. Seems like I just waisted some hard earned cash

[Ackermann]

Once you've got some impressions from the track post 'em up. A lot of people seem to like the HPS compound, and I've been considering them for my next set of pads. My car is my daily driver, so I'm after street pads that can handle a little autocross once in a while.

[Maven]

Perhaps you should read up on them first, its absolutely a street pad. I mean High Performance Street should have given you your first clue..... and then the tagline of "This unique Ferro-Carbon formula was developed for street performance" shoulda told you to stay away if you were looking for a Time Trial pad. At the very least you shoulda been looking at Black compound Hawks Sorry you wasted your money but it seems to be your fault, not that of the pad just think that isnt very clear here.

The stock pad is in my opinion as well superior to the HPS for track duties. Stock is a Ferodo compound.

[venom09]

Yep, I've used Black and HT10's before. They are both a track only compound and the black's (or was it the Blue, can't remember now) killed the rotors on my Cobra. HT 10 was better for the heavy Cobra BTW.
I was looking for something to drive everyday AND use on the track and I have seen a few Hondas around here running HPS at lapping days with great success...
Maybe I should just get some OEM?

[Maven]

Originally Posted by venom09

Yep, I've used Black and HT10's before. They are both a track only compound and the black's (or was it the Blue, can't remember now) killed the rotors on my Cobra. HT 10 was better for the heavy Cobra BTW.
I was looking for something to drive everyday AND use on the track and I have seen a few Hondas around here running HPS at lapping days with great success...
Maybe I should just get some OEM?

OEMs are good, the HP+ is better(than HPS), but still not a true track pad. I would give Cobalt Friction a call and tell them what youre doing and what you drive.

[ogc]

Im in for pad replacement soon as well.

and would like something at least comparable to stock as I have no issues with the stock braking system.

If that isnt available aftermarket I may just buy OEM pads again.

Maven, are the stock pads made by ferodo, and would ferodo offer an "aftermarket" replacement?

[alleycat58]

Originally Posted by ogc

Im in for pad replacement soon as well.

and would like something at least comparable to stock as I have no issues with the stock braking system.

If that isnt available aftermarket I may just buy OEM pads again.

Maven, are the stock pads made by ferodo, and would ferodo offer an "aftermarket" replacement?

DS 2500 is the more aggressive pad from Ferodo. I think the TC stock has the HP1000s.

Not sure what they have "aftermarket" available for the TCs yet. Given that they make the stock pad, I would think they'd either already have or soon be coming out with a more aggressive pad.

[TooTanToucan]

I got about 5.5 hrs (in 15-20min sessions) of track time plus 8k road miles out of my stockers. The pads still have decent life in them, but not enough for the track. I have a fresh set on but unfortunately I had to have the rotors turned because the dealership sent us the wrong rotors and couldn't get me new ones in time. Which sucks because I'm leaving tonight for heartland park and running sat. and sun. The new rotors will go on before my last track day this year here in STL. For next year, now that I have some slicks, I want a dedicated set of pads and rotors for track duty. I'd really, really appreciate any help in deciding what to get. I'm still a rookie. I don't see myself doing any competitve track driving near term, so I don't need that competitve edge. I just want a set that will allow me to maximize my newfound traction.

[ogc]

Here is another question, when should I stop using a set of pads.

Mine are at about 50% at the moment maybe a little less. At what point should I replace them?

[Tazmanian_Dvl]

3/32-4/32 is generally a good time to replace the pads. If you're doing a lot of hard braking I would recommend new rotors instead of cutting them. I'm not a fan of cutting the rotors because in my experience they end up warping faster...

[venom09]

I did 4 x 20 min sesions today running in the instructors group with cars like the V8 M3, V8 ISF Lexus and Z06 Corvettes no problem. The HPS pads held up pretty good, just needed a little more pedal pressure than what I was used to. Much to my surprise I had no fade at all.

As always I have vids and pics and will upload them as soon as I get time.

[venom09]

Originally Posted by TooTanToucan

I got about 5.5 hrs (in 15-20min sessions) of track time plus 8k road miles out of my stockers. The pads still have decent life in them, but not enough for the track. I have a fresh set on but unfortunately I had to have the rotors turned because the dealership sent us the wrong rotors and couldn't get me new ones in time. Which sucks because I'm leaving tonight for heartland park and running sat. and sun. The new rotors will go on before my last track day this year here in STL. For next year, now that I have some slicks, I want a dedicated set of pads and rotors for track duty. I'd really, really appreciate any help in deciding what to get. I'm still a rookie. I don't see myself doing any competitve track driving near term, so I don't need that competitve edge. I just want a set that will allow me to maximize my newfound traction.

To have a dedicated set of pads and rotors for the track is the best, Iv'e been racing my Cobra for years like that. HIGHLY recomended. Take a look at the Hawk hT 10 and Grand Sport GS3, these worked best on my Cobra.
http://www.satisfiedbrakes.com/motorsports/index.html

Originally Posted by ogc

Here is another question, when should I stop using a set of pads.

Mine are at about 50% at the moment maybe a little less. At what point should I replace them?

Absolutely no less than 1/3 if you drive anything like me. I found once they get that low the wear increases. For Solosprint weekends we recommend a min of 50%. See our "Solosport Vehicle Technical Self Declaration" form please.

Originally Posted by Tazmanian_Dvl

3/32-4/32 is generally a good time to replace the pads. If you're doing a lot of hard braking I would recommend new rotors instead of cutting them. I'm not a fan of cutting the rotors because in my experience they end up warping faster...

When re- machining rotors the finish on the surface is VERY important aswell as proper removal of old pad material imbedded in the rotor. That is why I do mine myself and if you don't know how to do that (or someone trustworthy), absolutely get new ones.

[jboogie]

Anyone tried the carbotech pads yet? (http://www.ctbrakes.com/) I used the old panther plus now called AX6 on my last car and absolutly LOVED them for autocross, street and a few track days a year. But then again in had about 100 less hp and weighted 900lbs less. Was thinking of trying the XP8 on the cobalt but was wondering if they would be to aggressive for the street.

[Maven]

Originally Posted by jboogie

Anyone tried the carbotech pads yet? (http://www.ctbrakes.com/) I used the old panther plus now called AX6 on my last car and absolutly LOVED them for autocross, street and a few track days a year. But then again in had about 100 less hp and weighted 900lbs less. Was thinking of trying the XP8 on the cobalt but was wondering if they would be to aggressive for the street.

Ive used 1521s, front and back(still have 1521 shoes n back) I liked the pedal feel of the stock shoes better but the modulation and bite curve is better with the Carbotechs.

[Azi_SRT-4]

I used HP+ on rear, HPS on front for my Neon, then the pads on both rears came off the iron carrier (!). So I switched to EBC yellow, which was far too much dust and I'm pretty sure they were quiet until I properly bedded them, at which point they were cRaZy nOiSY.

As far as peddle feel goes, have you put stainless steel lines on? That was a great mod for me and gave be the most linear feel of the brakes. For certain, once I was on the EBCs, I could better modulate the transition from 20-40% braking, whereas before it was 20-80% and the ABS kicked on with seemingly very little peddle.

[venom09]

Originally Posted by Azi_SRT-4

I used HP+ on rear, HPS on front for my Neon, then the pads on both rears came off the iron carrier (!). So I switched to EBC yellow, which was far too much dust and I'm pretty sure they were quiet until I properly bedded them, at which point they were cRaZy nOiSY.

As far as peddle feel goes, have you put stainless steel lines on? That was a great mod for me and gave be the most linear feel of the brakes. For certain, once I was on the EBCs, I could better modulate the transition from 20-40% braking, whereas before it was 20-80% and the ABS kicked on with seemingly very little peddle.

With the stock pads I did not feel the need for the stainless lines, but am looking into that
One of the other instructors this past weekend was running HP+ on his E92 M3, only complaint was that they are noisy when cold. And my friend with a Viper GTS is on his 2nd set of EBC's. I drove the Viper a few times on the track and have to say the pedal feel is pretty good but my GS3's on the Cobra is better for my kind of driving.
I am a little short on cash so I am just going to make the HPS pads work for me at this point. Hopefully I can get some GS5's when these wear out.

[northvibe]

I got a evo9 friend that tracks all the time and he LOVES his raybestos ST-43's (pretty sure thats the model). Just wish they made them for the SS venom...call them and show them your racing vids so we get some of those pads!

[TooTanToucan]

Thanks for the replies.

I had a bit of a problem at heartland park. On my last session of the first day, heading into turn 8 I lost nearly all of my braking force. The pedal was as firm as normal but the decel just wasn't there. Luckily, turns 8 and 9 are a left-right-left that opens into another straight so I was able to just slide off into the grass heading toward the next straight. I didn't lose compression, the pads weren't glazed and I don't remember any ABS activity until the grass. So, can I assume I gassed the pads? I took it a little easier in my sessions on Sunday and didn't experience any problems on track.

That was a bad corner for me on Saturday. In the second session a Viper ACR spun ahead of me and two laps later I spun right in front of him. I told him it was payback.

[Azi_SRT-4]

If your braking came back, that's my interpretation. If it didn't come back 100% after a cool-down period, I'd say check fluid level and clarity and start hunting for leaks. I lost all pressure once after a full day. Turns out when I checked the fluid in the AM inspection, I didn't tighten the cap completely and fluid had been leaking out all day.

But if visual inspection of rotors and pads is okay, mechanical inspection is everything is to spec (caliper doesn't shake or shim, still have proper clearance and clamping force), and after cool down, you've returned to normal performance, you should be good.

what is the deal with this forum? i see so many ppl posting the same comment 3-5 times and wonder wtf? then i get this:

The following errors occurred with your submission:
1. This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 18 seconds.

Mercifully, I went back into the thread and voila, there's my post without resubmitting. Admins need to fix this.

[venom09]

Originally Posted by TooTanToucan

Thanks for the replies.

I had a bit of a problem at heartland park. On my last session of the first day, heading into turn 8 I lost nearly all of my braking force. The pedal was as firm as normal but the decel just wasn't there. Luckily, turns 8 and 9 are a left-right-left that opens into another straight so I was able to just slide off into the grass heading toward the next straight. I didn't lose compression, the pads weren't glazed and I don't remember any ABS activity until the grass. So, can I assume I gassed the pads? I took it a little easier in my sessions on Sunday and didn't experience any problems on track.

That was a bad corner for me on Saturday. In the second session a Viper ACR spun ahead of me and two laps later I spun right in front of him. I told him it was payback.

That has happened to me a couple times!
Your pad went past it's designed heat range. Time to upgrade to a track only pad my friend. Or limit yourself to 3 hot laps at a time followed by a cooldown lap.
Make sure to inspect your pads for any kind of "flaking" or seperation of pad material and the backing plate. And bleed the fluid in the calipers before your next session.

[northvibe]

what did the time attack SS use Carbotechs?

[Maven]

Originally Posted by northvibe

what did the time attack SS use Carbotechs?

Either Carbotechsa or Pagids I cant remember, the Grand Am Cup cars used Pagids, and the Koni Challenege cars run Cobalts.

[northvibe]

Originally Posted by Maven

Either Carbotechsa or Pagids I cant remember, the Grand Am Cup cars used Pagids, and the Koni Challenege cars run Cobalts.

Cobalts brakes? haha I assume you mean Carbotechs?

[Maven]

Originally Posted by northvibe

Cobalts brakes? haha I assume you mean Carbotechs?

Haha, no I mean Cobalt Friction Technologies brand brake pads. In particular XR4 and XR5 iirc.

[venom09]

I was told from a reliable source that Carbotech has them for the Brembo brakes, but not listed on their website. Still looking into it.
Part Number: CT968SA
XP8 - $211
XP10 - $227