40rty

Agreed, good info thanks.

kdub1492

iTrader: (8)

I honestly like the idea of ZZP testing the TTR manifold. And Just from reading I don't think there is any ill intent on ZZP doing so. But it is TTR's call on what goes down, so be it. Interested to see the results from Saturday's testing!

Chevycobaltss3

iTrader: (2)

I don't understand why I would make anything up or why rich would. We get nothing from this.... We will see the differences Saturday.

Chevycobaltss3

iTrader: (2)

Again

Matt M

James- no one said you made anything up. It is clear that the rpms did not match up in the two tests, though. I guess maybe I'm quick to notice that type of thing, but really it is my job to be. I've worked with math and physics all my life. I used to travel around competing in math competitions when I was in school. I guess it's just how my brain works, so it bothers me when information is posted that contradicts basic laws of mathematics or physics.

To take that a step further, why is it that anyone thinks I would make something up?

Matt M

Who wouldn't like to see it? TTR has a chance to test their intake on the highest powered LNF in existence, but they would rather be narrow-minded and decline the offer. As part of a business, they should understand that this could be a good way to improve sales of this product. Otherwise, the highest power they have put down with their intake will still be over 300whp short of what we already did on the stock intake. In the end, that is the statement that is going to hurt sales.

kdub1492

iTrader: (8)

I'm just wondering how this will sell, Performance Autowerks introduced a intake manifold in 2009, quite a few people bought it, but then just kinda died. Supposed that's why ZZP doesn't make them, demand isin't real high..

Area47

if you're going to post gains with a dyno graph. make they both graphs match rpm, hp/trq/mph. or else the comparison between the two is moot.

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

that is a pretty decent manifold, great looking, Matty O pumped out 440 something whp with it. You are right, Pwerkes dont make it any more. There must be pictures of it someplace, I dont have any.

Matt M

One of the reasons is that the intake ports in the LNF head flow very terribly. In order to make huge gains with an intake swap, you would need to match it up with custom cylinder heads, and then custom pistons to maintain proper mixture in the DI system. It would take a serious investment.

On the other side, this doesn't mean you can't see gains. As was mentioned, the runner length has been altered, which will tune to a different RPM. Also, it was mentioned that equal airflow distribution was taken into consideration. This can help a little as well. We are just limited more than we would be if this was a different motor.

kdub1492

iTrader: (8)

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...S/IMG_1150.jpg

Picture of the Werks manifold Matt was running

padlock

iTrader: (9)

^that looks really nice

Chevycobaltss3

iTrader: (2)

Not a direct bolt on and looks a lot like the gm manifold.

Omiotek

iTrader: (2)

techinically it is a direct bolt on if you want to go that far.... lnf flange and bolts to the lnf head. the piping routing is different but thats all. so for someone that doesnt have stock replacement piping then it can be used with ease. all the sensors and vacum ports are maintained.

as far as looking like the gm manifold what does it matter? it wouldnt of worked on the lnf. the original ttr manifold looked nearly identical to the hahn intake.....does it matter...not at all people still buy it. just about every other 4 cylinder manifold looks the same on every platform with a different flange and some other difference but esentially they all do the same thing and look almost the same.

jmf mani
http://www.malevolentmotorsports.com...20Manifold.jpg
http://www.mellonracing.com/images/J...l%20Intake.jpg

weapon r evo intake
http://www.definedusa.com/catalog/im...o%208%20IM.jpg

apparently a ford intake manifold that looks like the ttr and hahn intake manifold
http://www.mirrorfinishpolishing.com...NIFOLD-111.JPG

ttr ecotec manifold
http://www.turbotechracing.com/produ...idProduct=5340

hahn racecraft ecotec manifold
http://www.turbosystem.com/ProjectVe...t/P1010168.jpg

pwerks ecotec(solstice/cobalt)

serega12

iTrader: (1)

converted links to imgages for Omiotek (SAVES FROM CLICKING EACH LINK BACK AND FORTH)

Nfamous60

iTrader: (11)

damn that pwerks is sicc, but u need custom piping am i right?

Omiotek

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the image conversion.

yes sir because it moves the throttle body but its not as bad as people think to make. so thats what i was saying if you dont have piping already its completely feesable to do. im not knocking the ttr manifold. dont get me wrong. im just proving the point that its a bolt on part. its structure was great too...... i got hit at 80mph front end collision and it smashed the runner up into the manifold(runne didnt collapse) and split maybe an inch to inch and a half of weld.

Chevycobaltss3

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, so I am going "that far". Point being is that the pwerks manifold is not a "direct bolt on" meaning you do have to move throttle body, reroute charge piping and hooded and so on. I'm not trash talking so calm down.

Matt M

When you go to the dyno, bring a usb drive to save your runs on. That way you will have all of the data, and we won't have to speculate about inconsistencies. Get pictures of the dyno screen and videos as well, so there is no questioning when or how the runs were performed. And no, I'm not asking this for zzp to somehow benefit. We are not planning to build intakes like this. I genuinely want to know if this is a product that some of our customers should run. We have one customer in particular that has asked for this type of info more than once.

Also, when was this test done? 6 months ago when the new intake was installed? Or just recently? If recently, which intake did you dyno first?

thanks.

TurboTechRacing

iTrader: (24)

Matt,

Test in post #1 was done a week prior to the creation of this thread. He tested a few concepts back 6 months ago for us, this was the best design, so we refined it and put it through the ropes for 6 months. No idea which order he dynod them.



Just have to ask, when is the last time ZZP preformed the same above requested (and some other previous requests in this thread) process for your product(s)? (videos, usb charts, data logs, etc.)

Furthermore your test have always been 1st hand/ZZP test. Have you ever had any products independtly tested (3rd party)? Our test is a 3rd party test. Richard has nothing to gain by this.

I can see a USB for the dyno runs, which I think he did last time (not sure). I highly doubt Richard will hand it over to you. Just becuase you are "ZZP" does not mean you can push your weight around, you are no different than any other company. Pwerks, Powell, etc all make great products too.

These are all things we can sure do, but what makes ZZP any different that they dont do this (or publish this), but asks other company(s) to?

Being the number of units we have already sold to date, it will not be long before one ends up on a customers car, and you are able to see first hand.

Matt you just need to sit back, wait and what Richard provides, is what he provides. If you dont like it, trust it, or whatever it is, sorry... We will never make everyone happy. Again I am sure you will have your first hand chance soon enough, as we know many of our other manifolds on LSJ conversion kits have made it through ZZP. If you dont want to "spread the word" on our product yet, becuase you are not sure, then don't... You will have your chance when it comes.

Team SS

iTrader: (6)

The charts will be posted tomorrow.

BLAZIN07SS

iTrader: (7)

Aaron don't even start with that third party testing and ZZP. It's third party because you don't have a dyno.

TurboTechRacing

iTrader: (24)

Yes we dont have a dyno, but guess what, it is best this way for this test. Our customers can without a doubt trust these numbers. Notice I stated "these" numbers, they are not "ours" they are Richard's.

You can try to change this up however you like, bottom line our statement is true.

ZZP has every choice to dyno in house during refinement and take to a 3rd party for indept testing, but they dont, nor do they provide the data to the level they requested from us, to anyone else, nor should they have to.

Omiotek

iTrader: (2)

i am talking in a calm manner.... you have to take the throttle body off the stock manifold anyways... so thats not even a deciding factor. the charge piping is the biggest thing which like i said for someone who doesnt have aftermarket charge pipes it wouldnt be an issue as for someone that does have aftermarket charge piping then sure its an issue as they would need new ones.

TurboTechRacing

iTrader: (24)

I think James only point is the charge pipe. If a correctly bent up charge pipe was included in the kit, I would consider the Pwerks manifold a bolt on. As it is, there is no "hacking or modifing" needed.