Why I chose Powell Stage 1 after I already bought OTTP Stage 1
12-14-2012, 02:30 PM
#76
you folks dont read. Let me summarize before I gtfo this deal
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
It is also clear to me that many people ignore the torque axis mount position when installing rotated mounts, and this can cause issues with vibration and insert failure as well. Some folks also install a sold torque axis mount on the passenger side, which can also lead to issues with rotated mounts. It is also clear that no matter how many times explanations are posted here and on other sites, these posts or threads get lost. Or folks dont bother to search.
Usual disclaimers.
OP purchased mounts from a vendor, wrong spacers sent.
OP trusted they were right, found out they were not, after he pm'd me as he could get no answer from vendor
vendor denied they were wrong.
then vendor changed story after the fact
In the meantime the OP had gotten new mounts from me.
ALL you folks installing the vendors mounts, not ones made by me, may well run into issues with the inserts failing over time. The cheap ones do.
The dimensions may also cause issues in rotation over time. They are different.
Sucks when there are issues with a part and you as a purchaser are trying to contact the vendor and there is no reply.
Back in 2004 when I figured out the rotated mount deal, I got permission on behalf of GM from Grand Am racing, to have it allowed as an upgrade for 2005 on Cobalt Grand Am race cars. Thats a fact. They were not streetable, the inserts were composite and they vibrated like hell, so I made an insert version.
The first mounts I made and sold, like the ones Blazin07SS has, are still installed and still good. Since 2007 or so.
It is also clear to me that many people ignore the torque axis mount position when installing rotated mounts, and this can cause issues with vibration and insert failure as well. Some folks also install a sold torque axis mount on the passenger side, which can also lead to issues with rotated mounts. It is also clear that no matter how many times explanations are posted here and on other sites, these posts or threads get lost. Or folks dont bother to search.
Usual disclaimers.
and i am assuming with the blue one you are talking about the motor mount?
12-14-2012, 08:22 PM
#78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The one I was given did not fit. Are you a stupid hillbilly?
You can post all of the measurements in the world and they won't amount to the **** I had to deal with regarding Ottp and their junk. When I get more time maybe tomorrow ill post the measurements of the **** I was given and compare them to the stock mount. Looks like that's the only way now that this is going to have to be settled.
You can post all of the measurements in the world and they won't amount to the **** I had to deal with regarding Ottp and their junk. When I get more time maybe tomorrow ill post the measurements of the **** I was given and compare them to the stock mount. Looks like that's the only way now that this is going to have to be settled.
12-14-2012, 08:23 PM
#79
Stock lnf=2.602
Ottp spacers & vdub bushing=2.603 to 2.615
(bushing=1.609. Spacers=.477 to .5.03[.5+/-.03])
Cradle=2.618
Notice the tolerances we are talking about. All numbers have been pulled from this thread. Stock has a total clearance of .016 whereas the three pieces that make up the ottop rotated mount have a clearance of between .015 and .003. This does not include any variation in the vdub bushing or the stock cradle. We are talking gaps that are as thin as a human hair.
All that matters is the piece didn't fit for the op, he wasn't able to get satisfaction from the vender and he went somewhere else. I understand Josh's is a small business but whatever it would have cost him to fix the problem is much less than the potential loss due to the bad pr he is getting. Its Josh's business to run how he likes but if he was working for someone else he would have likely been fired for his actions in this situation. Anyone who has worked as a manager in customer service would tell you the same thing.
Ottp spacers & vdub bushing=2.603 to 2.615
(bushing=1.609. Spacers=.477 to .5.03[.5+/-.03])
Cradle=2.618
Notice the tolerances we are talking about. All numbers have been pulled from this thread. Stock has a total clearance of .016 whereas the three pieces that make up the ottop rotated mount have a clearance of between .015 and .003. This does not include any variation in the vdub bushing or the stock cradle. We are talking gaps that are as thin as a human hair.
All that matters is the piece didn't fit for the op, he wasn't able to get satisfaction from the vender and he went somewhere else. I understand Josh's is a small business but whatever it would have cost him to fix the problem is much less than the potential loss due to the bad pr he is getting. Its Josh's business to run how he likes but if he was working for someone else he would have likely been fired for his actions in this situation. Anyone who has worked as a manager in customer service would tell you the same thing.
12-14-2012, 08:44 PM
#80
^^^this. Thing is, the vendor changed to the malibu bushing which is wider in the insert,(lots of bad pr on the vdub mount inserts failing, and has been for over a year) but when the vendor shipped themount with the new insert, with the vdub spacers ( probably because attention was not paid to dimensional difference) the OP was screwed. The rest Slash has covered.
there is about a half inch difference in the center insert vdub to malibu. I dont use that malibu insert either, but it is cheaper than the ones I use.
cheaper.
there is about a half inch difference in the center insert vdub to malibu. I dont use that malibu insert either, but it is cheaper than the ones I use.
cheaper.
12-15-2012, 02:45 AM
#82
The one I was given did not fit. Are you a stupid hillbilly?
You can post all of the measurements in the world and they won't amount to the **** I had to deal with regarding Ottp and their junk. When I get more time maybe tomorrow ill post the measurements of the **** I was given and compare them to the stock mount. Looks like that's the only way now that this is going to have to be settled.
You can post all of the measurements in the world and they won't amount to the **** I had to deal with regarding Ottp and their junk. When I get more time maybe tomorrow ill post the measurements of the **** I was given and compare them to the stock mount. Looks like that's the only way now that this is going to have to be settled.
12-15-2012, 09:19 AM
#83
The one I was given did not fit. Are you a stupid hillbilly?
You can post all of the measurements in the world and they won't amount to the **** I had to deal with regarding Ottp and their junk. When I get more time maybe tomorrow ill post the measurements of the **** I was given and compare them to the stock mount. Looks like that's the only way now that this is going to have to be settled.
You can post all of the measurements in the world and they won't amount to the **** I had to deal with regarding Ottp and their junk. When I get more time maybe tomorrow ill post the measurements of the **** I was given and compare them to the stock mount. Looks like that's the only way now that this is going to have to be settled.
Stock lnf=2.602
Ottp spacers & vdub bushing=2.603 to 2.615
(bushing=1.609. Spacers=.477 to .5.03[.5+/-.03])
Cradle=2.618
Notice the tolerances we are talking about. All numbers have been pulled from this thread. Stock has a total clearance of .016 whereas the three pieces that make up the ottop rotated mount have a clearance of between .015 and .003. This does not include any variation in the vdub bushing or the stock cradle. We are talking gaps that are as thin as a human hair.
All that matters is the piece didn't fit for the op, he wasn't able to get satisfaction from the vender and he went somewhere else. I understand Josh's is a small business but whatever it would have cost him to fix the problem is much less than the potential loss due to the bad pr he is getting. Its Josh's business to run how he likes but if he was working for someone else he would have likely been fired for his actions in this situation. Anyone who has worked as a manager in customer service would tell you the same thing.
Ottp spacers & vdub bushing=2.603 to 2.615
(bushing=1.609. Spacers=.477 to .5.03[.5+/-.03])
Cradle=2.618
Notice the tolerances we are talking about. All numbers have been pulled from this thread. Stock has a total clearance of .016 whereas the three pieces that make up the ottop rotated mount have a clearance of between .015 and .003. This does not include any variation in the vdub bushing or the stock cradle. We are talking gaps that are as thin as a human hair.
All that matters is the piece didn't fit for the op, he wasn't able to get satisfaction from the vender and he went somewhere else. I understand Josh's is a small business but whatever it would have cost him to fix the problem is much less than the potential loss due to the bad pr he is getting. Its Josh's business to run how he likes but if he was working for someone else he would have likely been fired for his actions in this situation. Anyone who has worked as a manager in customer service would tell you the same thing.
^^^this. Thing is, the vendor changed to the malibu bushing which is wider in the insert,(lots of bad pr on the vdub mount inserts failing, and has been for over a year) but when the vendor shipped themount with the new insert, with the vdub spacers ( probably because attention was not paid to dimensional difference) the OP was screwed. The rest Slash has covered.
there is about a half inch difference in the center insert vdub to malibu. I dont use that malibu insert either, but it is cheaper than the ones I use.
cheaper.
there is about a half inch difference in the center insert vdub to malibu. I dont use that malibu insert either, but it is cheaper than the ones I use.
cheaper.
The thicker bushing is on the left. The one that matches his is on the right.
As for poor customer service.
This is when he started posting on the forums about this.
This is when he pm'ed me. Notice he ask's if I changed the design of it, right there is the clue that he talked to John first. Why else would he ask that? read the thread here and you can see for yourself. https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/driv...53/index2.html
This is how fast I got back to him.
12-15-2012, 12:00 PM
#84
I guess we will all find our whether the op got the wrong size bushing when he sells the Ottp ones and they get put on someone else's car. He said he ground them down so he could get them on his car so we just have to wait for the new owner to try them.
12-15-2012, 01:06 PM
#85
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The fact that this vendor is going through great lengths to back up his garbage shows that he has something to hide, which will become apparent after only a few measurements.
Josh are you an engineer?
Josh are you an engineer?
12-15-2012, 01:34 PM
#86
Member
Join Date: 05-09-11
Location: LaMarque,Tx
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow lol. i went with john's product and it was installed on my car yesterday in a matter of 10min.(car was on a lift). NO VIBES,when i shift,it's smooth. great customer service. the only knock i give to john is, i wished he was in the states lol...shipping was a about a week. not too bad for being in another country,but was hoping to have it 2-3 days after i placed the order.
ottp- i'm sure you have a good customer base,but the thread you just posted on this page is the reason i went with john. powell had/have a good product and you change it for whatever reason,made me shy away. to the other posters,the inventor of the product CAN'T be wrong and with powell racing reputation and in partnership with GM,you can't go wrong...just saying.
ottp- i'm sure you have a good customer base,but the thread you just posted on this page is the reason i went with john. powell had/have a good product and you change it for whatever reason,made me shy away. to the other posters,the inventor of the product CAN'T be wrong and with powell racing reputation and in partnership with GM,you can't go wrong...just saying.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post