Nightcrawler

Say one were to get something like this as a replacement for the front 6.5"'s and tweeters:

Speakers

Where would you mount those crossovers? The stock Pioneer system does not have crossovers, correct? Would it be advisable(or is it ok to) NOT to use them and just stick the new speakers in the stock spots and use them like that? I assume this can be done without problem.

My other question is, would there be any added benefit to buying a 2-way 6.5" speaker and replacement tweeters seperately without a component set. Would that enhance the treble any or would that be overkill and/or actually make the sound worse?

vic_romano

I wanted to know the same thing.

02blazerx

You should be able to mount the crossovers inside the doors. I havent looked at a cobalt yet, but this works for most cars. Just got to make sure its weatherproof. And if you are going to run a set of components then you will need to run an aftermarket amp to make them worthwhile. They will sound like **** and be horribly underpowered if you run them off the factory amplifier.

Nightcrawler

That's not necessarily true. First.. you cannot 'underpower' a speaker. A speaker will work just as well with 10 watts as it will with 50 watts. It will simply be quieter.

The only problem comes from clipping from the amp IF you are trying to turn the volumn up too high. The amp output will still be within the rated speaker power range, however the signal is now approaching square waves and voice coils cannot cool as well.

Now.. if you get an aftermarket set of 2-ohm replacement speakers with a high sensitivity rating of 95dB, they will be TWICE as loud as a 91dB sensitivity rated speaker at the SAME power. So.. you're aftermarket speakers will sound twice as loud as the factory speakers AT THE SAME POWER level. I'm going to assume the factory speakers are most likely rated at below even 91dB for effeciency.

So.. in conclusion, replacing the factory speakers with the same load and higher effeciency ratings, will yeild LOUDER volume at the same power levels. If you are a person who listens to music at non deafening moderate levels and do not push the stock amplifier into clipping range, you will have much better sounding system than you did with stock.

One could argue the tonal balance of the stock amp would be different than a n aftermarket one, but that is a totally different discussion.

High efficiency speakers will sound just fine and much better than the original stock system. The higher the efficiency, the less important more power will be. For every 3dB's, you need HALF power to acheive the SAME volume level.

02blazerx

just one question? how many stereos have you installed? If your going to run a decent to high end set of components then you want to power them as recommended. You dont want to feed a speaker that has a rms rating of lets say 100 watts and only give it 25. Sure it will play...but you will not be getting the speakers true potential.

97cavie24ls

you can under power and over power a speaker

what kills the speaker is the distortion , wether its due to the amp being to big and pushing the speaker to far , or turning the volume up into the area where your getting a distorted sound from having to low of power

Nightcrawler

Not too many in the car audio world, but quite a few outside of that. Regardless, I do have pretty extensive technical knowledge when it comes to speakers. The recommended power is 2W-90W. Anything in that range will output the same quality sounding music.

What is a speakers true potential? Really? The clarity will be present at ALL volume levels. THAT'S the biggest reason in my book for better speakers is to enhance the reproduction clarity of the music. Now, it just so happens that higher end speaker usually can handle much higher power levels. What is that going to do for you? Increase the volume the speaker can play music at without distorting the music. What if you're not interested in that? What if you weren't distorting the lower power speakers you had already?

What if you only want to listen to music at comfortable volume levels. In that case applying 25W to your 100W watt speaker will still yeild you a very good distortion free high quality sound experience.

Couple that with high efficiency speakers and large amounts of power are completely unnecessary and irrelevant to quality sounding music.

If you're the type of person who needs deafening music, high power handling speakers and higher power amplifiers are definitely needed, but for 'normal' music listening, it's not.

vic_romano

thanks for some very informative posts nightcrawler.

Cartoys Ferret

... lol. You do realize that A) You CAN underpower a speaker and if you do it will blow, 90% of the time blowing a speaker is a result of underpowering it, not over powering it. And B) that with the factory amp in the car you wont want to replace the speakers due to differentiating ohm loads. In order to change speakers/amps you need to do a gut and replace. You must read alot to get your information.

Bandit2941

And you should realize that you're wrong. You cannot underpower a speaker itself. When an amp gets driven into clipping, part of the AC sine wave gets cut off resulting in a DC signal(square wave). Since speakers get cooled by their normal movement(excursion) and the distorted signal doesn't make the speaker move as it normally should, the speaker can't effectively cool itself and it overheats.

Read nightcrawlers post. His info is spot on accurate.

ApexAnalog

This is true. You can easily damage a speaker by underpowering it and then turning it up to compensate. You won't damage it just by underpowering it, of course, but when you turn up the underpowered amp, you're making the amp work really hard --> distortion/clipping...which wrecks speakers.

This can be happening even at low volumes.

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

lol crazy old post... but no bandit is correct

ApexAnalog

I have a degree in audio engineering.

Remember, distortion can happen within the signal path inside the amplifier...it doesn't have to occur at the speaker to be a problem. Clipping can occur, but many cheap amps - or underpowered amps being driven hard to compensate for low volume - introduce intermodulation distortion, and when a speaker is asked to reproduce this waveform, which is likely clipped to near-square as well as being terribly distorted to start with, many speakers just say no.

...also unless you're listening to pure tones, you're not reproducing AC sine wavs...

and yes, Bandit is correct - you can't harm a speaker solely by underpowering it - the idea is even comical...but when you compensate for low volume by overworking an amplifier, you can easily harm speakers, even very well made speakers.

Example: I had am employee let the magic smoke out of the tweeters on some two-way speakers by connecting a consumer CD player (-10dB) to a pro amp (+4dB). He then cranked the amp in order to get the music loud enough. The music wasn't noticably distorted - everyone was having a good time and suddenly all the treble was gone...lol.

It's better to (slightly) overpower your speakers, for sound quality (via higher SNR) and for speaker longevity.

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

tomato tomoto were all saying the same stuff here... doesnt really matter how its dressed up we all agree that underpowering itself cannot blow a speaker but a smaller amp thats cranked will blow stuff up. And yes i agree distortion normally happens at the amp level and sometimes isn't audible

-the.k.w.c-

you are suppose to mount them inside the car for safe keeping but u can mount them inside the door as lond as there bolted onto the door tight

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

i think he either moved on or figured it out... its only been 3 years