GM Exec Calls Chevy Cobalt "Horrible"
05-14-2010, 09:07 PM
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GM Exec Calls Chevy Cobalt "Horrible"
~While driving a Cobalt, Karl Stracke, vice president of global vehicle engineering, was blunt: "Look at this car, it's horrible. How did this get through so many people."~
By Scott Burgess / The Detroit News / After test driving the Chevrolet Cruze and other promising vehicles in recent weeks, General Motors Co. executives Wednesday predicted a continued rise in sales for the troubled automaker.
"We expect to increase our sales next month and the month after that," said Mark Reuss, president of General Motors North America, after tooling around in the Cruze outside of Ann Arbor. "We can't control how many vehicles the market sells, but we can continue to sell more cars."
Reuss and other top executives meet weekly outside Ann Arbor for what they call Knothole Rides. They test drive new GM vehicles and their competition and then offer frank assessments to vehicle line executives and chief engineers.
These rides -- and their critiques -- have become even more important as GM prepares to launch a series of essential vehicles in the coming months.
"They have all got to be home runs," said Tom Stephens, GM's vice chairman, global product operations. "And we're going to keep enhancing these vehicles through their life cycle. You should see some of the improvements we'll have for (the Cruze) for 2013."
But on Wednesday, executives were focused on the Cruze, a compact car that arrives in dealerships in September and is designed to outperform the top-selling Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla.
"We have never really built good small cars," Reuss said. "But we are now."
Gary Altman, Cruze chief engineer, said the discussions at these rides are frank and sincere.
"If there is something wrong, they'll let you know, and you fix it right away," Altman said.
While driving a Cobalt, Karl Stracke, vice president of global vehicle engineering, was blunt: "Look at this car, it's horrible. How did this get through so many people."
But such candid evaluations have helped the automaker develop new entries -- the Chevrolet Malibu, Buick LaCrosse and Chevrolet Equinox, all of which have been critically acclaimed and well received by consumers.
"The mission is simple and clear: design, build and sell the very best," said Terry Woychowski, vice president, global vehicle program management.
The group is even willing to take advice from outside sources. On a previous Cruze drive, Woychowski called his 17-year-old daughter to meet him and offer advice.
"She had lots of great insight," he said. "I need her, and here she was teaching me things about the car."
While flying down a bumpy road in a Cruze, Sheri Hickok, director of global noise and vibration, purposely hit as many bumps as possible to listen to any noise infiltrating the cabin.
"You can have two vehicles that ride exactly the same, but if one has a solid sound and the other one has high-pitched squeaks and rattles, people will think the quieter car has a better ride," she said.
"I'm very pleased with the improvements since the last drive. There were some wind noise issues that seem to have been fixed."
The final of four test drives during the development of new vehicles comes as the cars are ready for dealerships.
The group is keenly aware that every auto manufacturer will continue to improve their small cars. While the Honda Civic is the benchmark GM wants to pass, it knows Honda will bring out a new Civic as early as next year as a 2012 model.
While looking over his notes, Stephens said the Cruze's ride and handling bettered the current Civic.
But Reuss, standing nearby, noted, "We've got to beat the next generation."
source: http://detroitnews.com/article/20100...#ixzz0noACf6hS
----------------------------
I am very angry after reading his comment. Way to take care of your customers… as a Cobalt owner, I feel insulted for my purchasing diction.
By Scott Burgess / The Detroit News / After test driving the Chevrolet Cruze and other promising vehicles in recent weeks, General Motors Co. executives Wednesday predicted a continued rise in sales for the troubled automaker.
"We expect to increase our sales next month and the month after that," said Mark Reuss, president of General Motors North America, after tooling around in the Cruze outside of Ann Arbor. "We can't control how many vehicles the market sells, but we can continue to sell more cars."
Reuss and other top executives meet weekly outside Ann Arbor for what they call Knothole Rides. They test drive new GM vehicles and their competition and then offer frank assessments to vehicle line executives and chief engineers.
These rides -- and their critiques -- have become even more important as GM prepares to launch a series of essential vehicles in the coming months.
"They have all got to be home runs," said Tom Stephens, GM's vice chairman, global product operations. "And we're going to keep enhancing these vehicles through their life cycle. You should see some of the improvements we'll have for (the Cruze) for 2013."
But on Wednesday, executives were focused on the Cruze, a compact car that arrives in dealerships in September and is designed to outperform the top-selling Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla.
"We have never really built good small cars," Reuss said. "But we are now."
Gary Altman, Cruze chief engineer, said the discussions at these rides are frank and sincere.
"If there is something wrong, they'll let you know, and you fix it right away," Altman said.
While driving a Cobalt, Karl Stracke, vice president of global vehicle engineering, was blunt: "Look at this car, it's horrible. How did this get through so many people."
But such candid evaluations have helped the automaker develop new entries -- the Chevrolet Malibu, Buick LaCrosse and Chevrolet Equinox, all of which have been critically acclaimed and well received by consumers.
"The mission is simple and clear: design, build and sell the very best," said Terry Woychowski, vice president, global vehicle program management.
The group is even willing to take advice from outside sources. On a previous Cruze drive, Woychowski called his 17-year-old daughter to meet him and offer advice.
"She had lots of great insight," he said. "I need her, and here she was teaching me things about the car."
While flying down a bumpy road in a Cruze, Sheri Hickok, director of global noise and vibration, purposely hit as many bumps as possible to listen to any noise infiltrating the cabin.
"You can have two vehicles that ride exactly the same, but if one has a solid sound and the other one has high-pitched squeaks and rattles, people will think the quieter car has a better ride," she said.
"I'm very pleased with the improvements since the last drive. There were some wind noise issues that seem to have been fixed."
The final of four test drives during the development of new vehicles comes as the cars are ready for dealerships.
The group is keenly aware that every auto manufacturer will continue to improve their small cars. While the Honda Civic is the benchmark GM wants to pass, it knows Honda will bring out a new Civic as early as next year as a 2012 model.
While looking over his notes, Stephens said the Cruze's ride and handling bettered the current Civic.
But Reuss, standing nearby, noted, "We've got to beat the next generation."
source: http://detroitnews.com/article/20100...#ixzz0noACf6hS
----------------------------
I am very angry after reading his comment. Way to take care of your customers… as a Cobalt owner, I feel insulted for my purchasing diction.
Last edited by JonyyB; 05-14-2010 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-14-2010, 09:14 PM
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Well... to be honest, the interior of the Cobalt is about as good as that of a Little Tikes car. GM could've certainly done much better with the Cobalt's fit and finish. I bought another delta body mainly for the price and the performance. The interior blows though.
05-14-2010, 09:17 PM
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interior isnt that bad.. (ss models)
its simple and it works, you cant call a car horrible just because of plane jane plastic interior when the car excells in so many other ways
(SS models)
if buddy is talking down on the SS which i doubt, he needs to be expired from his job asap..
its simple and it works, you cant call a car horrible just because of plane jane plastic interior when the car excells in so many other ways
(SS models)
if buddy is talking down on the SS which i doubt, he needs to be expired from his job asap..
05-14-2010, 09:59 PM
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I'm very OCD about rattles and squeaks... and well... thats what I hear a ton of. I love the performance of the car... I get a smile on my face by slamming the throttle, but if I'm crusing and trying to listen to music, it pisses me off when about half the car makes a rattle on a sub hit. Trying to listen to Bone Thugs without constant buzzing is almost impossible. I'm not even using an aftermarket sub either. Also, my interior isn't exactly holding up. The seat clips keep coming undone, the trim is horribly faded, I just had my steering wheel replaced due to leather issues, my airbag had a dent in the emblem from the factory (I got a new airbag though because the dealership screwed up and broke the original). Also my radio buttons are wearing off. I've had about 3 (yes THREE) interior handles replaced due to peeling chrome. I also had the fun task of trying to drive the car without a shift knob once after it popped off during a 1st to 2nd shift.
But yes. Not trying to talk down the Cobalt SS at all, I'm just stating that its fit and finish could have been done much, much, much better. The poor fit and finish was the cancer killing GM, especially throughout the 80's, 90's and early 2000's when damn near every GM car outside of the Cadillac division was comprised of poor fitting body and interior parts and rattled like a set of maracas. GM is finally realizing that their customers like well designed interiors and cars that feel solidly built. Interiors held together with nothing but metal retaining clips with very few T10 and 7mm bolts isn't exactly well built.
But yes. Not trying to talk down the Cobalt SS at all, I'm just stating that its fit and finish could have been done much, much, much better. The poor fit and finish was the cancer killing GM, especially throughout the 80's, 90's and early 2000's when damn near every GM car outside of the Cadillac division was comprised of poor fitting body and interior parts and rattled like a set of maracas. GM is finally realizing that their customers like well designed interiors and cars that feel solidly built. Interiors held together with nothing but metal retaining clips with very few T10 and 7mm bolts isn't exactly well built.
Last edited by Nighthawk243; 05-14-2010 at 10:15 PM.
05-14-2010, 10:01 PM
#9
I agree on the base model. I had one for 2 years and always wished I had an older car like a grand prix or something because they're so much nicer inside. Now that I have my SS/TC though I love it. Feels like an entirely different class of car. But that is insulting though, I feel like he just told every Cobalt owner that they are an idiot for buying one. Way to support your customers.
05-14-2010, 10:22 PM
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i just got to say, i to feel unlike for buying a cobalt. now as i was reading do you gals/guys do you guys see anything wrong with base and building your way up? just curious?!?!
05-14-2010, 10:29 PM
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I agree with him. Going from the SS/SC to the 350Z was a huge upgrade. The interior of the Z (which is still plastic) is far superior to the Cobalts. And I don't have trim pieces peeling or falling off. The Z has far fewer noises, pops and vibrations than the Cobalt as well. The Cobalt really left much to be desired. I hope Cruze is a better car.
05-14-2010, 10:32 PM
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I owned an LT for 8 months and to me it was more cost effective to trade it in and take out a new loan then to spend a couple grand on performance parts for it when i still dont have the seats, black interior, bumpers, suspension, rims, etc.
05-14-2010, 10:45 PM
#14
Hmm. MY ls is my first car! So of course I like it, and I'm going to continue liking it and modding it. It's great to hear the company that made it thinks it sucks. I'm 21, I plan on living at least another 30-60 years lol. This definately makes me want to buy so many more genuine GM vehicles over the course of my life. /not
05-14-2010, 11:04 PM
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I would like to know what he specifically felt was so horrible about it. IMO, as others have said, that was a very dumb move on his part to say the car is horrible. Let's see, GM screwed themselves financially and now an executive says one of their cars is horrible. Why again should anyone buy GM?
05-14-2010, 11:07 PM
#16
I would like to know what he specifically felt was so horrible about it. IMO, as others have said, that was a very dumb move on his part to say the car is horrible. Let's see, GM screwed themselves financially and now an executive says one of their cars is horrible. Why again should anyone buy GM?
05-15-2010, 12:55 AM
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GM life for me started with a 1990 Chevy Beretta GTZ, frankly it was a better car than the Cobalt, and I had it when it was already 9 years old. It was missing no interior parts, none of the trim was faded and the only defect was a slight raise in the defroster vent. The wheels were sex and paint matched to the car, the car's paint (after a reformulation in mid 89) still had all it's clearcoat and a application of wax made it look awesome. The engine left something to be desired, I blew the head gasket at 92,000 miles and it was incredibly loud, but that's what made it fun. Furthermore a good driver could rocket the 2.3/5 speed down the 1/4 for a mid or high 14. The car NEVER failed to get me 32 mpg, every tank every weekend cruise and beating resulted in the same mpg...unfathomable. That car was by far the best car I ever owned, it cost the least of all my cars to maintain...and then it went downhill.
My next GM was a 1996 Beretta Z26, purchased in 2002, it was nice, I liked it. Until the rattles developed. (This was the later date interior redesign beretta btw) Now that's fine since it had nice seats, but then my driver's seat adjuster BROKE, leaving me to permanently repair it so it became nonadjustable. Sure, all well and good, but did the car do it's job? Sure it did. It was by far the SLOWEST Z2x model GM made, I had low 16 second quarters with that car, there was absolutely no reason the highest EVER torque gen 3 v6 should have behaved this way but it did. GM downgraded power output form my 1990 GTz at roughly 190 to 155 for my 96 Z26, awesome GM, and they did away with the manual option in 94. Not to mention I had a head gasket failure, radiator failure water pump failure and eventually it crapped a valve before it hit 160K, all because of that new fangled DEXCOOL...again awesome GM innovation.
My next GM vehicle (I briefly went with a Mazda RX7 Turbo, fantastic car, but after my third tear down to replaced apex seals I was done with it.) was a 1997 Chevy Blazer LT. This had the power features, leather, 4x4, running boards and so on. And true to GM design it rattled, "complained" and made more noise than any other vehicle I have ever owned. The transmission failed months after I got it, a classic example of GM ineptitude especially since it was a "well cared for" GM preowned certified vehicle. Anyways, once the transmission failed, I replaced it with a PERFORMANCE transmission problem solved. The next failure occurred during a hunting trip, while in 2wd no less my transfer case tail cone broken in all kinds of pieces and shat bearing and fluid everywhere. (The chain and broke despite being disengaged?) Again I replaced it with a MANUAL engagement 231 case. Next failure was my electrical system, my ECM failed...twice...in the same year, followed by my air conditioning compressor and alternator. Then the injector spider assembly began leaking massive amounts of fuel into the oil...awesome. Eventually this wrought the destruction of one of GMs best made engines, the 4.3 Vortec. I replaced the engine with a junkyard motor I painstakingly took the time to rebuild and include the addition of performance parts. Excellent. Then the headlight issue, where my headlights turned on and off whenever they felt like it depsite the position of the switch or for that matter if it was plugged in or not. Then the ABS failure that caused my brakes to become inoperable. Then the rear end destroyed itself and nearly flipped us at 70mph on I55. I still technically own it, but all it gets used for is hunting, I have stripped out the interior, it has oversized mud tires and is missing most of the electronics, after stripping it out of being what it was made for it works just fine sitting for months at a time being used a half dozen times a year. yet I cant help but tell you this has to be GMs WORST SUV EVER.
My next GM vehicle because I apparently am a glutton for punishment was actually by far the worst. And I mean this kindly saying it. 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD with the Duramax and Allison trans. I loved this truck I spent almost all of my deployment money to get it. My first problem was leaving the lot for the first time. The check engine light came on and they had to install new injectors. A week later I had the light return this time they replaced a diaphragm in the fuel system (where I dont remember itts been a while). Next my door handle fell off, just inexplicably fell off, followed shortly thereafter with my tailgate handle. Then the tow hooks rusted, the rims were by far the worst GM has ever made, they not only scaled over but the paint/clear coat came off in chunks as big as dollars. Then after another shorter deployment I had a series of engine failures that included the high pressure injection pump, another set of injectors, the timing gears, and even included an electrical problem the dealer couldn't find until my GROUND STRAP started on FIRE while it was idling in the shop just before I was supposed to get it back. I guess I won't mention the CD player ate my cd and never gave it back it never remembered radio stations, my power memory seat never remembered ****. The defrost never worked unless it was 90 degrees out then it worked fine. It constantly hunted gears while cruising below 50. I had oil leaks on a two year old low mile truck and GM claimed this was normal. I had the only "new" truck I couldn't park on my own driveway without a oil diaper. My exhaust rattled when it was cold, hell it rattled when it was hot too. The interior made alot of noise but not as bad as the blazer, mostly because parts of it just fell off rather than endure making noise about it. My then wife broke her arm when the grab handle decided it would no longer serve it's purpose. My passenger side door panel flapped for no explainable reason after GM replaced my inoperable window motor. My unlock switch worked only if I didn't scare or upset it. The GM autolock feature worked when it felt like it, even when it wasn't on, unlocking itself without my permission, I had a phone and pocket knife stolen because of this. Anyways, GM paid off my loan after I sued, after I won a lemon law settlement and only then did they offer me to replace it. No thanks, never get another GM truck.
From then on it was a while before I went back to GM.
Now the cobalt. Yanno what, the Cobalt as expected rattles, it has problems with the rear brakes because it 25 years GM HAS NEVER GOTTEN REAR BRAKES RIGHT. No seriously think about this, anyone remember oldsmobile cutlass supremes from the 90s? And what was their biggest issue? Rear brakes. Disc...fail, thanks GM. Also I never had a car that nagged me so much about **** I just don't care about, no I don't need warning chimes to tell me I turned my auto lights off, no I don't need a reminder that my parking brake is up, despite the idiot light the display message and the warning chime... Why can't there be a button to turn ESC, TC and ABS off...if I wanted it on I would tell it. Why does GM still believe it's ok that an engine LEAKS OIL, mine leaks...and it's getting worse, my brakes, hell I figure I'll run them until I wear the pad backings off the insides, I have no intention to reuse any component except the calipers when I do change the rears. Why does my year old car squeek when I open the door, or raise the sunroof, and why when my windows are up does my windshield squeel in the wind. Why is GM more concerned about checking my ECM to fix my sunroof rattle? Or for instance why did my key get stuck with the car unable to be turned off. Why did my seatbelt break? Why has the paint begun flaking off my door handle or for that matter why are both my foglights looking grayish yellow, both front and rear chevy emblems look like they are fifteen years old. I haven't touched my interior but why are the threads comign apart on the passenger seat...the one nobody sits in five days a week. Why did I spend 25 grand on a car that as I've discovered will not last 100K miles. This is my last GM car for the rest of my life.
Oh but the base cobalt, I got one for a rental, by far the worst small car I've ever had the displeasure to drive. It was also the ONLY small car that felt like driving a big car. There was nothing repsonsive about it, and it felt like you had to telegraph your intentions to the transmission to get it into passing gear. It had 43 miles on it, and yes it rattled worse than my 20K mile SS/TC...jesus and people pay 17 grand for this thing. The seats had you sitting bolt upright (it was a sedan) and had been overstuffed. I am a pretty big guy for my height and I just felt "pressured" every time I sat in it. Absolutely the worst car I have ever driven and I've got Uparmored HMMWVs on the list of things I have drive. It literally felt like I was driving a glass car and that if I did the wrong thing it would break, nothing gave me a sense of security or confidence to drive it with a measure of comfort.
My next GM was a 1996 Beretta Z26, purchased in 2002, it was nice, I liked it. Until the rattles developed. (This was the later date interior redesign beretta btw) Now that's fine since it had nice seats, but then my driver's seat adjuster BROKE, leaving me to permanently repair it so it became nonadjustable. Sure, all well and good, but did the car do it's job? Sure it did. It was by far the SLOWEST Z2x model GM made, I had low 16 second quarters with that car, there was absolutely no reason the highest EVER torque gen 3 v6 should have behaved this way but it did. GM downgraded power output form my 1990 GTz at roughly 190 to 155 for my 96 Z26, awesome GM, and they did away with the manual option in 94. Not to mention I had a head gasket failure, radiator failure water pump failure and eventually it crapped a valve before it hit 160K, all because of that new fangled DEXCOOL...again awesome GM innovation.
My next GM vehicle (I briefly went with a Mazda RX7 Turbo, fantastic car, but after my third tear down to replaced apex seals I was done with it.) was a 1997 Chevy Blazer LT. This had the power features, leather, 4x4, running boards and so on. And true to GM design it rattled, "complained" and made more noise than any other vehicle I have ever owned. The transmission failed months after I got it, a classic example of GM ineptitude especially since it was a "well cared for" GM preowned certified vehicle. Anyways, once the transmission failed, I replaced it with a PERFORMANCE transmission problem solved. The next failure occurred during a hunting trip, while in 2wd no less my transfer case tail cone broken in all kinds of pieces and shat bearing and fluid everywhere. (The chain and broke despite being disengaged?) Again I replaced it with a MANUAL engagement 231 case. Next failure was my electrical system, my ECM failed...twice...in the same year, followed by my air conditioning compressor and alternator. Then the injector spider assembly began leaking massive amounts of fuel into the oil...awesome. Eventually this wrought the destruction of one of GMs best made engines, the 4.3 Vortec. I replaced the engine with a junkyard motor I painstakingly took the time to rebuild and include the addition of performance parts. Excellent. Then the headlight issue, where my headlights turned on and off whenever they felt like it depsite the position of the switch or for that matter if it was plugged in or not. Then the ABS failure that caused my brakes to become inoperable. Then the rear end destroyed itself and nearly flipped us at 70mph on I55. I still technically own it, but all it gets used for is hunting, I have stripped out the interior, it has oversized mud tires and is missing most of the electronics, after stripping it out of being what it was made for it works just fine sitting for months at a time being used a half dozen times a year. yet I cant help but tell you this has to be GMs WORST SUV EVER.
My next GM vehicle because I apparently am a glutton for punishment was actually by far the worst. And I mean this kindly saying it. 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD with the Duramax and Allison trans. I loved this truck I spent almost all of my deployment money to get it. My first problem was leaving the lot for the first time. The check engine light came on and they had to install new injectors. A week later I had the light return this time they replaced a diaphragm in the fuel system (where I dont remember itts been a while). Next my door handle fell off, just inexplicably fell off, followed shortly thereafter with my tailgate handle. Then the tow hooks rusted, the rims were by far the worst GM has ever made, they not only scaled over but the paint/clear coat came off in chunks as big as dollars. Then after another shorter deployment I had a series of engine failures that included the high pressure injection pump, another set of injectors, the timing gears, and even included an electrical problem the dealer couldn't find until my GROUND STRAP started on FIRE while it was idling in the shop just before I was supposed to get it back. I guess I won't mention the CD player ate my cd and never gave it back it never remembered radio stations, my power memory seat never remembered ****. The defrost never worked unless it was 90 degrees out then it worked fine. It constantly hunted gears while cruising below 50. I had oil leaks on a two year old low mile truck and GM claimed this was normal. I had the only "new" truck I couldn't park on my own driveway without a oil diaper. My exhaust rattled when it was cold, hell it rattled when it was hot too. The interior made alot of noise but not as bad as the blazer, mostly because parts of it just fell off rather than endure making noise about it. My then wife broke her arm when the grab handle decided it would no longer serve it's purpose. My passenger side door panel flapped for no explainable reason after GM replaced my inoperable window motor. My unlock switch worked only if I didn't scare or upset it. The GM autolock feature worked when it felt like it, even when it wasn't on, unlocking itself without my permission, I had a phone and pocket knife stolen because of this. Anyways, GM paid off my loan after I sued, after I won a lemon law settlement and only then did they offer me to replace it. No thanks, never get another GM truck.
From then on it was a while before I went back to GM.
Now the cobalt. Yanno what, the Cobalt as expected rattles, it has problems with the rear brakes because it 25 years GM HAS NEVER GOTTEN REAR BRAKES RIGHT. No seriously think about this, anyone remember oldsmobile cutlass supremes from the 90s? And what was their biggest issue? Rear brakes. Disc...fail, thanks GM. Also I never had a car that nagged me so much about **** I just don't care about, no I don't need warning chimes to tell me I turned my auto lights off, no I don't need a reminder that my parking brake is up, despite the idiot light the display message and the warning chime... Why can't there be a button to turn ESC, TC and ABS off...if I wanted it on I would tell it. Why does GM still believe it's ok that an engine LEAKS OIL, mine leaks...and it's getting worse, my brakes, hell I figure I'll run them until I wear the pad backings off the insides, I have no intention to reuse any component except the calipers when I do change the rears. Why does my year old car squeek when I open the door, or raise the sunroof, and why when my windows are up does my windshield squeel in the wind. Why is GM more concerned about checking my ECM to fix my sunroof rattle? Or for instance why did my key get stuck with the car unable to be turned off. Why did my seatbelt break? Why has the paint begun flaking off my door handle or for that matter why are both my foglights looking grayish yellow, both front and rear chevy emblems look like they are fifteen years old. I haven't touched my interior but why are the threads comign apart on the passenger seat...the one nobody sits in five days a week. Why did I spend 25 grand on a car that as I've discovered will not last 100K miles. This is my last GM car for the rest of my life.
Oh but the base cobalt, I got one for a rental, by far the worst small car I've ever had the displeasure to drive. It was also the ONLY small car that felt like driving a big car. There was nothing repsonsive about it, and it felt like you had to telegraph your intentions to the transmission to get it into passing gear. It had 43 miles on it, and yes it rattled worse than my 20K mile SS/TC...jesus and people pay 17 grand for this thing. The seats had you sitting bolt upright (it was a sedan) and had been overstuffed. I am a pretty big guy for my height and I just felt "pressured" every time I sat in it. Absolutely the worst car I have ever driven and I've got Uparmored HMMWVs on the list of things I have drive. It literally felt like I was driving a glass car and that if I did the wrong thing it would break, nothing gave me a sense of security or confidence to drive it with a measure of comfort.
05-15-2010, 01:28 AM
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no kidding...
Seriously guys who are we kidding, it's not the car we love it's the engine the car has. Would we still love the car if it came with a previous generation HONDA motor like the quad 4 my Beretta had...no. (I am well aware it came from Isuzu..whom at the time Honda owned.) Why? Because at that point it would be too difficult to even SUGGEST the car redeemed itself.
My ideal car? I really loved my Beretta's looks...I mean REALLY, that was a sexy car way ahead of it's time in 1990.
Hindsight 20/20 if I had to do this all again, I think I woulda put an LNF motor in a Beretta GTZ. At least them I would get a car 850 lbs lighter with the same horsepower. And probably would have been in it less than my down payment and the first year's payments I've made so far.
Seriously guys who are we kidding, it's not the car we love it's the engine the car has. Would we still love the car if it came with a previous generation HONDA motor like the quad 4 my Beretta had...no. (I am well aware it came from Isuzu..whom at the time Honda owned.) Why? Because at that point it would be too difficult to even SUGGEST the car redeemed itself.
My ideal car? I really loved my Beretta's looks...I mean REALLY, that was a sexy car way ahead of it's time in 1990.
Hindsight 20/20 if I had to do this all again, I think I woulda put an LNF motor in a Beretta GTZ. At least them I would get a car 850 lbs lighter with the same horsepower. And probably would have been in it less than my down payment and the first year's payments I've made so far.
05-15-2010, 01:30 AM
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I knew this thread would get lots of hate, especially by people that have bad apple cars or bought used or don't take care of them...or like I said, got a bad apple.
My 09 SS/TC with GMS1 has almost 17k on it, runs like a champ, and yes has some rattles but mechanically and dynamically is an outstanding sports car. Anyone who never wants to buy a GM vehicle again in their life because of a cobalt should go drive a new Equinox/Terrain/LaX/Regal/CTS/Camaro/Cruze/Malibu/Traverse/Acadia/Enclave/etc. GM is making world class cars, Cobalt was a mix of old GM and new GM (in SS trim) in many ways. Its a shame anyone has had any issues with a car they purchased using their hard earned money but I'm on my second Cobalt SS (third in family) and mechanically its an outstanding vehicle. Needed a more aggressive exterior yesterday, less rattles and a substantial MCE interior wise, but the driving position is ergonomical and its lightyears beyond the previous generation Neon/Focus/Sentra, as good as a previous gen civic (trails the current one obviously) and for the price for what you get SS wise, its a good vehicle.
Saying that, I would not buy a base LS unless I wanted a light weight base car to autoX or turbo, or an XFE for the gas mileage.
My 09 SS/TC with GMS1 has almost 17k on it, runs like a champ, and yes has some rattles but mechanically and dynamically is an outstanding sports car. Anyone who never wants to buy a GM vehicle again in their life because of a cobalt should go drive a new Equinox/Terrain/LaX/Regal/CTS/Camaro/Cruze/Malibu/Traverse/Acadia/Enclave/etc. GM is making world class cars, Cobalt was a mix of old GM and new GM (in SS trim) in many ways. Its a shame anyone has had any issues with a car they purchased using their hard earned money but I'm on my second Cobalt SS (third in family) and mechanically its an outstanding vehicle. Needed a more aggressive exterior yesterday, less rattles and a substantial MCE interior wise, but the driving position is ergonomical and its lightyears beyond the previous generation Neon/Focus/Sentra, as good as a previous gen civic (trails the current one obviously) and for the price for what you get SS wise, its a good vehicle.
Saying that, I would not buy a base LS unless I wanted a light weight base car to autoX or turbo, or an XFE for the gas mileage.
05-15-2010, 01:53 AM
#22
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I hear what your saying, and yes I need to remember WHY I bought this car, it's far and away the best car ever for the money at No Problem Raceway, going toe to toe and beating some of the resident Porches and Corvettes, and yet I'm the only one in the class that doesn't get trailered home. I do need to remember that, I know as a competitive sport compact this thing is truly world class right out of the box. But to daily drive, it could have been SO much better.
BTW I have driven the Equinox, the Buick Lucerne and the Camaro. The Equinox was a far removed version of my S10, feeling heavy but lively, but so bland to drive I guess that's a good thing. The Lucerne has probably the best seats of any car out there under 50 grand. Yet the car came without navigation, memory seats, the leather was a rougher grain than I expected and the stitching thick and noticeably grabbed at clothing. The engine was flat and humble, it pulled and pulled while giving you a detached feeling, it threw around its heft pretty well, the stability control is actually fantastic and forgiving in this car. The paint was exceptional, best by far for Buick in a long time being the metallic burgundy I really liked it. But at a price tag comparable to a Mercedes of the same class, it's just not measurable in features and liveliness of a Business sedan. The camaro was a HUGE letdown. I was the least impressed with this car. It was vulgar but shared all the same attributes of the cobalt, plastic this and that, rattles, wind noise, tire noise, it felt and drove like it was very heavy. Almost PREGNANT. Yes I drove the SS...twice. It was also SLOWER than my SS/TC with just a superchips tune. Even when we switched drivers. Roll is no contest, and the dig has my car on its tail at the top of second and overtaking by 80. The roominess was good compared to previous generations. I liked the stereo (a first ever for camaros I've experienced) but again, it was positively vulgar leaving no thoughts this car was designed for any purpose except to go in a straight line. The ESC system was invasive it continuously irritated me and with it off the jitters and wheel hop in cornering made it feel loose and scrubbed curves worse than the previous generation. The gauges leave something to be desired, but still better than the new mustangs. GM has come a long way but when they've been passed by everyone except Chrysler, Hyundai and Kia that's getting to be a mute point. I would say if GM is committed it'll be ten more years of design improvements before they are on par with the current quality standards other makers achieve now.
BTW I have driven the Equinox, the Buick Lucerne and the Camaro. The Equinox was a far removed version of my S10, feeling heavy but lively, but so bland to drive I guess that's a good thing. The Lucerne has probably the best seats of any car out there under 50 grand. Yet the car came without navigation, memory seats, the leather was a rougher grain than I expected and the stitching thick and noticeably grabbed at clothing. The engine was flat and humble, it pulled and pulled while giving you a detached feeling, it threw around its heft pretty well, the stability control is actually fantastic and forgiving in this car. The paint was exceptional, best by far for Buick in a long time being the metallic burgundy I really liked it. But at a price tag comparable to a Mercedes of the same class, it's just not measurable in features and liveliness of a Business sedan. The camaro was a HUGE letdown. I was the least impressed with this car. It was vulgar but shared all the same attributes of the cobalt, plastic this and that, rattles, wind noise, tire noise, it felt and drove like it was very heavy. Almost PREGNANT. Yes I drove the SS...twice. It was also SLOWER than my SS/TC with just a superchips tune. Even when we switched drivers. Roll is no contest, and the dig has my car on its tail at the top of second and overtaking by 80. The roominess was good compared to previous generations. I liked the stereo (a first ever for camaros I've experienced) but again, it was positively vulgar leaving no thoughts this car was designed for any purpose except to go in a straight line. The ESC system was invasive it continuously irritated me and with it off the jitters and wheel hop in cornering made it feel loose and scrubbed curves worse than the previous generation. The gauges leave something to be desired, but still better than the new mustangs. GM has come a long way but when they've been passed by everyone except Chrysler, Hyundai and Kia that's getting to be a mute point. I would say if GM is committed it'll be ten more years of design improvements before they are on par with the current quality standards other makers achieve now.
05-15-2010, 02:12 AM
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no kidding...
Seriously guys who are we kidding, it's not the car we love it's the engine the car has. Would we still love the car if it came with a previous generation HONDA motor like the quad 4 my Beretta had...no. (I am well aware it came from Isuzu..whom at the time Honda owned.) Why? Because at that point it would be too difficult to even SUGGEST the car redeemed itself.
My ideal car? I really loved my Beretta's looks...I mean REALLY, that was a sexy car way ahead of it's time in 1990.
Hindsight 20/20 if I had to do this all again, I think I woulda put an LNF motor in a Beretta GTZ. At least them I would get a car 850 lbs lighter with the same horsepower. And probably would have been in it less than my down payment and the first year's payments I've made so far.
Seriously guys who are we kidding, it's not the car we love it's the engine the car has. Would we still love the car if it came with a previous generation HONDA motor like the quad 4 my Beretta had...no. (I am well aware it came from Isuzu..whom at the time Honda owned.) Why? Because at that point it would be too difficult to even SUGGEST the car redeemed itself.
My ideal car? I really loved my Beretta's looks...I mean REALLY, that was a sexy car way ahead of it's time in 1990.
Hindsight 20/20 if I had to do this all again, I think I woulda put an LNF motor in a Beretta GTZ. At least them I would get a car 850 lbs lighter with the same horsepower. And probably would have been in it less than my down payment and the first year's payments I've made so far.