2.0 TurboSystem: How would YOU want it?
i cant wait i gotta start saving tho should be well worth it
04-21-2008, 06:08 PM
#103
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Actually...360/346 rank as the best numbers we've ever seen for a Super 20G on pure pump gas, 2.0 liter engine. And that's a turbo boasting quite a pedigree...we've placed thousands of them in the field, so it's had a real chance to develop a history to compare to. Keep in mind...this lil' ol LSJ is now making 5% more power than a mighty LS2 V8, but still has a broad enough powerband to be usable...that's nothing to sneeze at!
You may be comparing it with a larger turbo that will provide more HP per PSI of boost, but less low-RPM power:
- Paul's HiFi 60-1 T3/T04e that puts down 411 WHP/358 Wtrq
- Joe's GT35R Cobalt that puts down 440 WHP on pump gas
We chose S20G for its very pleasing all-around performance, which we feel is a much more effective match for the stock LSJ in daily usage. As a point of comparison, dig the torque...only 12 ft/lbs less than Paul's car made at 50 more HP!
Super 20G is legendary in the DSM and SRT crowds for bringing big numbers, but not at the loss of low-RPM streetability. Many is the story of T3-T4 users who were lured by the spell of high HP, but then disappointed by a narrow powerband...who then chucked the big ol' T3-T4 in favor of a S20G replacement. HP freaks will always prefer the larger turbo for its dyno performances, but we find that the greater cross-section of our buyers are more interested in real-world usability.
But never fear...with some octane and higher boost, Super 20G also stands ready to rocket past 400 WHP and push street-weight cars deep into the 11 second range...why, we've even had a super-lightweight Neon run hi NINES on one, and our streetbikes into the SEVENS @ over 190 MPH!
Last edited by Hahn RaceCraft; 04-21-2008 at 06:37 PM.
04-21-2008, 06:18 PM
#104
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Dynojet 224xlc
Actually...those rank as the best we've ever seen for a Super 20G on pure pump gas, 2.0 liter engine. You may be comparing it with a higher-flowing turbo that will provide more HP per PSI of boost, but less low-RPM power:
We chose S20G for its very pleasing all-around performance, which we feel is a much more effective match for the stock LSJ in daily usage. As a point of comparison, dig the torque...only 12 ft/lbs less than Paul's car made at 50 more HP!
Super 20G is legendary in the DSM and SRT crowds for bringing big numbers, but not at the loss of low-RPM streetability. Many is the story of T3-T4 users who were lured by the spell of high HP, but then disappointed by a narrow powerband...who then chucked the big ol' T3-T4 in favor of a S20G replacement. HP freaks will always prefer the larger turbo for its dyno performances, but we find that the greater cross-section of our buyers are more interested in real-world usability.
But never fear...with some octane and higher boost, Super 20G also stands ready to rocket past 400 WHP and push street-weight cars deep into the 11 second range...why, we've even had a super-lightweight Neon run hi NINES on one, and our streetbikes into the SEVENS @ over 190 MPH!
Actually...those rank as the best we've ever seen for a Super 20G on pure pump gas, 2.0 liter engine. You may be comparing it with a higher-flowing turbo that will provide more HP per PSI of boost, but less low-RPM power:
- Paul's HiFi 60-1 T3/T04e that puts down 411 WHP/358 Wtrq
- Joe's GT35R Cobalt that puts down 440 WHP on pump gas
We chose S20G for its very pleasing all-around performance, which we feel is a much more effective match for the stock LSJ in daily usage. As a point of comparison, dig the torque...only 12 ft/lbs less than Paul's car made at 50 more HP!
Super 20G is legendary in the DSM and SRT crowds for bringing big numbers, but not at the loss of low-RPM streetability. Many is the story of T3-T4 users who were lured by the spell of high HP, but then disappointed by a narrow powerband...who then chucked the big ol' T3-T4 in favor of a S20G replacement. HP freaks will always prefer the larger turbo for its dyno performances, but we find that the greater cross-section of our buyers are more interested in real-world usability.
But never fear...with some octane and higher boost, Super 20G also stands ready to rocket past 400 WHP and push street-weight cars deep into the 11 second range...why, we've even had a super-lightweight Neon run hi NINES on one, and our streetbikes into the SEVENS @ over 190 MPH!
Very true! Dyno sheet now please!
04-21-2008, 08:38 PM
#106
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It's only fair I warn you folks...I am going to sound proud, boastful even, about the following results. I can't help it! If you can't stand the idea of removing supercharging from your car, and just detest this movement towards turbos, please...read no farther. If you decide to do so anyway, well...I warned you, don't hate on me for what I've done!
Special thanks to Tyler Beckman for offering up his '05 SS for hybridization, and to Paul for excellent tuning advice.
OK, first the 'conservative' graph:
This occurred at 15 PSI boost. Think of what the stock blowers put down at 15 PSI, then check this out. And this is with IAT2's of, ohh...85 degrees!
LOOK at that FAT torque curve. Hell, it's not even a curve...it's a plateau! Think of that at full throttle upshifts, as the car drops to 4000-ish RPM with every shift. That's the kind of torque that really yanks a car forward, huge and long and without giving up. And as it finally begins to trail off ever so slightly at hi RPM, the HP curve steps right in and finishes the job. That, my friends, is about as perfect a turbo match as you are ever going to see.
Then we got a bit more daring, but still very safe, by engaging the Greddy boost controller Tyler had just installed:
This with 22 PSI boost.. The torque peak is aggressive...keep in mind, both of these graphs are third gear WOT pulls from 2000RPM, so the turbo is not spooled at all, and as such, it comes on hard at 4000 RPM. On the street, you'd see full boost hundreds of RPM earlier, and there'd also be the effect of pre-spooling from the previous gear.
On this run, I lifted a bit at 6200, then got out of it at 6500, for I saw 20+ PSI boost for the first time, and I didn't want to beat up Tyler's 'Balt! We did a couple successive runs with less aggressive gain settings on the boost controller, all the way to 7000 RPM, to further clean up the fuel and timing curves, but as they were 'only' in the mid 350's, I didn't post them up.
Scan data at this power level indicated a happy knock retard, IDC's in the 89% range, and a rather uneventful 90 degree IAT2. Overall, optimization. Sure, we could push the 60lb injectors a but harder, but why? PortFueler awaits in the wings for more fun once Tyler gets ahold of everything he's got here. And he won't rest until he's matched or surpassed the performance of our 11.8 second street-tired SRT-4. And...if he takes coaching well, by God, he just may do it! He's going to run the same boost setup, using the Greddy remote-control on the steering wheel to engage hi boost in 2nd gear, the same turbo, the same tuner, the same fuel system...
--------------------------
So I had a bud email me today and ask me what I think of the newer blower options coming out for this car, and how they stack up against our TurboSystem...
I sent him these two graphs and a reply that said: "When they can do THIS, and do it with better fuel mileage than stock, selectable power levels from the drivers seat, inlet temps under 100* F, AND also enable you to re-sell a complete take-off blower, intake manifold, belt drive, and intercooler system…well, THEN I’ll be impressed."
Special thanks to Tyler Beckman for offering up his '05 SS for hybridization, and to Paul for excellent tuning advice.
OK, first the 'conservative' graph:
This occurred at 15 PSI boost. Think of what the stock blowers put down at 15 PSI, then check this out. And this is with IAT2's of, ohh...85 degrees!
LOOK at that FAT torque curve. Hell, it's not even a curve...it's a plateau! Think of that at full throttle upshifts, as the car drops to 4000-ish RPM with every shift. That's the kind of torque that really yanks a car forward, huge and long and without giving up. And as it finally begins to trail off ever so slightly at hi RPM, the HP curve steps right in and finishes the job. That, my friends, is about as perfect a turbo match as you are ever going to see.
Then we got a bit more daring, but still very safe, by engaging the Greddy boost controller Tyler had just installed:
This with 22 PSI boost.. The torque peak is aggressive...keep in mind, both of these graphs are third gear WOT pulls from 2000RPM, so the turbo is not spooled at all, and as such, it comes on hard at 4000 RPM. On the street, you'd see full boost hundreds of RPM earlier, and there'd also be the effect of pre-spooling from the previous gear.
On this run, I lifted a bit at 6200, then got out of it at 6500, for I saw 20+ PSI boost for the first time, and I didn't want to beat up Tyler's 'Balt! We did a couple successive runs with less aggressive gain settings on the boost controller, all the way to 7000 RPM, to further clean up the fuel and timing curves, but as they were 'only' in the mid 350's, I didn't post them up.
Scan data at this power level indicated a happy knock retard, IDC's in the 89% range, and a rather uneventful 90 degree IAT2. Overall, optimization. Sure, we could push the 60lb injectors a but harder, but why? PortFueler awaits in the wings for more fun once Tyler gets ahold of everything he's got here. And he won't rest until he's matched or surpassed the performance of our 11.8 second street-tired SRT-4. And...if he takes coaching well, by God, he just may do it! He's going to run the same boost setup, using the Greddy remote-control on the steering wheel to engage hi boost in 2nd gear, the same turbo, the same tuner, the same fuel system...
--------------------------
So I had a bud email me today and ask me what I think of the newer blower options coming out for this car, and how they stack up against our TurboSystem...
I sent him these two graphs and a reply that said: "When they can do THIS, and do it with better fuel mileage than stock, selectable power levels from the drivers seat, inlet temps under 100* F, AND also enable you to re-sell a complete take-off blower, intake manifold, belt drive, and intercooler system…well, THEN I’ll be impressed."
Last edited by Hahn RaceCraft; 04-21-2008 at 09:34 PM. Reason: I love turbochargers!
04-21-2008, 10:03 PM
#109
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me too, i am getting closer to sold on this, still thinkin maybe TVS but being that i'm not already very modified, i think the turbo will be more economical.
04-21-2008, 11:43 PM
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After seeing those graphs I think I have to go and change my boxers! Holy torque curve or lack there of! 
I'm very impressed and would have liked to see that pull without a let off at 6200. I bet 370-375 would have been made easily! WOW, great job!
Prices please, and what was the special surprise for being the close for the guestimate?
Well, my day has been made. I will go frolic in the desert sand and heat happily now! 
I'm very impressed and would have liked to see that pull without a let off at 6200. I bet 370-375 would have been made easily! WOW, great job!Prices please, and what was the special surprise for being the close for the guestimate?
Well, my day has been made.
I will go frolic in the desert sand and heat happily now!
04-22-2008, 12:15 PM
#115
very nice there Bill. I wish I had talked to you before I went ***** out on my car, but I still have almost the same boost curve and low engine speed response. That tq curve is sweet though. Now I just need a 2-stage boost controller so I can get traction in 1st and 2nd and it's on lol.
04-22-2008, 12:21 PM
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very nice there Bill. I wish I had talked to you before I went ***** out on my car, but I still have almost the same boost curve and low engine speed response. That tq curve is sweet though. Now I just need a 2-stage boost controller so I can get traction in 1st and 2nd and it's on lol.
04-22-2008, 12:24 PM
#117
very nice man, I was hoping you'd go this route.
Car is going to be a beast man, you have no idea. add those numbers up with meth injection and a little more advanced timing curve and you'll be seeing an easy 370whp on pump gas. I need to get my car back on the dyno with the new tune in it to see what it looks like without those horrid lean spikes. too bad the dyno was f'd up the last time out due to trix's fire lol.
Car is going to be a beast man, you have no idea. add those numbers up with meth injection and a little more advanced timing curve and you'll be seeing an easy 370whp on pump gas. I need to get my car back on the dyno with the new tune in it to see what it looks like without those horrid lean spikes. too bad the dyno was f'd up the last time out due to trix's fire lol.
04-22-2008, 12:36 PM
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very nice man, I was hoping you'd go this route.
Car is going to be a beast man, you have no idea. add those numbers up with meth injection and a little more advanced timing curve and you'll be seeing an easy 370whp on pump gas. I need to get my car back on the dyno with the new tune in it to see what it looks like without those horrid lean spikes. too bad the dyno was f'd up the last time out due to trix's fire lol.
Car is going to be a beast man, you have no idea. add those numbers up with meth injection and a little more advanced timing curve and you'll be seeing an easy 370whp on pump gas. I need to get my car back on the dyno with the new tune in it to see what it looks like without those horrid lean spikes. too bad the dyno was f'd up the last time out due to trix's fire lol.
Yeah, I think I might use the factory IM for a start though so my numbers might not be as high. I have 3 cars lined up though as soon as I get back for installs and tuning so the Hahn IM should be in the works soon there after.
04-22-2008, 12:38 PM
#121
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holy **** is all i have to say. and i only live an hour away from hahns shop.
let the penny pinching begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 It's level V or bust my friends
let the penny pinching begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 It's level V or bust my friends
04-22-2008, 12:41 PM
#122
Oh, I have an idea of what it'll be like. Take my Integra when it was at 15psi, add a 7psi more oh **** factor, and then realize tracton is completely gone for 3rd gear as well! Or blow by the SRT-4 with my tires spinning that did it to me awhile back!
Yeah, I think I might use the factory IM for a start though so my numbers might not be as high. I have 3 cars lined up though as soon as I get back for installs and tuning so the Hahn IM should be in the works soon there after.
Yeah, I think I might use the factory IM for a start though so my numbers might not be as high. I have 3 cars lined up though as soon as I get back for installs and tuning so the Hahn IM should be in the works soon there after.
turbo cobalts are fun lol. drive like a reg 4 banger below 2k rpm's, great fuel economy, and crazy Wow factor when you hammer the go pedal.
Now just patiently awaiting the new hahn BOV to get here, and that's one issue fixed that I don't have to worry about anymore.
04-22-2008, 12:50 PM
#125
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