When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
"On vehicles that have several control modules connected by serial data circuits, one module is the power mode master (PMM). On this vehicle, the PMM is the body control module (BCM). The PMM receives 3 discrete ignition switch signals to differentiate which power mode will be sent over the Serial Data circuits. The 3-wire Ignition Switch table illustrates the state of these inputs in correspondence to the ignition switch position.
Relay Controlled Power Mode
The body control module (BCM) uses the discrete ignition switch inputs Off/Run/Crank, Accessory, and ignition 1, to distinguish the correct power mode. The ignition 1 circuit is also routed to the Run/Crank relay for relay controlled power feeds during the appropriate power mode. The BCM, after determining the desired power mode, will activate the appropriate relays for that power mode.
Run/Crank Relay
The run/crank relay control circuit is connected to a constant ground and is switched by the ignition 1 circuit or the BCM. The BCM, will in lieu of the ignition switch position, activate the Run/Crank relay during a remote start event. The Run/Crank relay supplies a power signal to the following circuits, when the a Run or Crank power mode is selected:
Automatic transmission shift indicator
Automatic transmission (A/T)
Switched power feeds to the BCM
Electronic brake control module (EBCM)
Electronic ignition module (spark control)
Electronic power steering module (EPS)
Fuel injectors
Powertrain control module (PCM)
Park neutral position (PNP) switch Accessory (ACC) Relay
The adaptive cruise control (ACC) relay is energized when the Run or accessory power mode has been selected. The relay uses a Hot At All Times B+ power source derived from the underhood electrical center. The ACC relay is also energized by the BCM to supply power during the retained accessory power (RAP) mode. The following devices are controlled by this relay:
Inside rearview mirror
Heated seats
Power windows
Sunroof
Wiper washers switch
Fail-Safe Operation
Since the operation of the vehicle systems depends on the power mode, there is a fail-safe plan in place should the power mode master (PMM) fail to send a power mode message. The fail-safe plan covers those modules, using exclusively serial data control of power mode, as well as those modules with discrete ignition signal inputs.
Serial Data Messages
The modules that depend exclusively on serial data messages for power modes stay in the state dictated by the last valid PMM message until they can check for the engine run flag status on the serial data circuits. If the PMM fails, the modules monitor the serial data circuit for the engine run flag serial data. If the engine run flag serial data is True, indicating that the engine is running, the modules fail-safe to RUN. In this state, the modules and their subsystems can support all operator requirements. If the engine run flag serial data is False, indicating that the engine is not running, the modules fail-safe to OFF-AWAKE. In this state, the modules are constantly checking for a change status message on the serial data circuits and can respond to both local inputs and serial data inputs from other modules on the vehicle.
Discrete Ignition Signals
Those modules that have discrete ignition signal inputs, also remain in the state dictated by the last valid PMM message received on the serial data circuits. They then check the state of their discrete ignition input to determine the current valid state. If the discrete ignition input is active, battery positive voltage, the modules will fail-safe to the RUN power mode. If the discrete ignition input is not active, open or 0 volts, the modules will fail-safe to OFF-AWAKE. In this state, the modules are constantly checking for a change status message on the serial data circuits and can respond to both local inputs and serial data inputs from other modules on the vehicle.
BCM Wake-Up/Sleep States
The body control module (BCM) is able to control or perform all of the BCM functions in the wake-up state. The BCM enters the sleep state when active control or monitoring of system functions has stopped, and the BCM has become idle again. The BCM must detect certain wake-up inputs before entering the wake-up state. The BCM monitors for these inputs during the sleep state, where the BCM is able to detect switch transitions that cause the BCM to wake-up when activated or deactivated. Multiple switch inputs are needed in order to sense both the insertion of the ignition key and the power mode requested.
The BCM will enter a wake-up state, if any of the following wake-up inputs are detected:
Activity on the serial data line
Detection of a battery disconnect and reconnect condition
Headlamps are ON.
Ignition is turned ON.
Key-in-ignition switch
Park lamps are ON.
RFA message
The BCM will enter a sleep state when all of the following conditions exist:
The ignition switch is OFF.
No activity exists on the serial data line.
No outputs are commanded.
No delay timers are actively counting.
No wake-up inputs are present.
If all these conditions are met, the BCM will enter a low power or sleep condition. This condition indicates that the BCM, which is the power mode master (PMM) of the vehicle, has sent an OFF or OFF-ASLEEP message to the other systems on the serial data line."
I'm now thinking it has to do with remote start. I'm pretty sure that my original key fob had a remote start button on it that I couldn't ever get to work. (Didn't care much if it did or didn't.) I assumed it was because there was so much wrong with the car when I got it that it didn't pass some logic test required to make it work. Anyone think I'm onto something? If these wires are for remote start I can do away with them completely.
Maybe ya'll can advise me on a purchase option that has presented itself. Another user has offered to sell a new Hahn intake manifold with port fueler option (no controller) at a reasonable price. The attraction of that to me would be that it's already built / saves me time. However, it still sticks too far out the side of the engine and I would need to cut and shorten the runners to make it work for me. I know I don't need 4 more injectors and I would still need a controller to run them. I've also already purchased everything I need to build my own, so that would all just be money wasted. Does anyone see any advantage to the Hahn setup that I am overlooking?
it doesnt sound like its the best fit for what your doing. you dont need the port fueler for what your doing, and to shorten the runners your going to have to eliminate it. id just start from scratch, easier and you will have a better finished product in the end.
Thanks ya'll. Kind of what I figured. I just told him I was going to pass. Very tempting offer though.
Member's name is zeeky420 if anyone else is interested. He seemed very nice and was able to provide photos via text message. He also has some in a for sale thread in classifieds with his username and date in the photos. I've never dealt with him before though.
I finally got my 4t65 rebuilt today. Lack of shop-time for the holidays combined with problem after problem while I was inside of it resulted in the rebuild drawing out over the course of an entire friggen month. Pretty sure I have a good trans ready to go now. I started getting the Bates Engineering adapter plate ready to go:
There are immediately two issues created by the adapter. One obvious in that pic, the other not so much.
1. The obvious issue is the oil cooler port is partially covered by the adapter plate. I spoke to Ray Bates briefly about this. There are a couple options here. As previously discussed, I can lop off the oil filter housing and weld fittings to the block, run remote oil filter. Another is to tap the ports and plug them. Not sure what I am going to do yet, but after looking more closely at the space constraints I'm fairly certain that I won't need to cut the housing off for my intake.
2. The less obvious interference issue is that the t-stat housing doesn't clear the adapter either. Ray said that he normally makes a plate for the back of the water pump that has a hose fitting on it which then welds to the housing cover. This eliminates the coolant pipe and t-stat housing as well as the heater core hoses, none of which I woudl be running anyway. It also uses a block-off plate for the rectangular port where the t-stat housing used to be:
The only other coolant port on the engine at that point is the one on the side of the head.
So I guess coolant would come out the bottom of my radiator into the back of my water pump, through the engine, out the head, and back into the top of the radiator. Does that flow path sound right? Does anyone have a coolant flow diagram for an Ecotec for me to verify?
Hey, great thread.. Im doing a similar thing with a LSJ into a Miata :-).. When you welded the oil cooler bungs did you just screw into one of those remote oil cooler housings on top of the filter, did you keep a oil cooler ?.. Does the oil still route ok with the factory cooler holes blocked off.
Hey, great thread.. Im doing a similar thing with a LSJ into a Miata :-).. When you welded the oil cooler bungs did you just screw into one of those remote oil cooler housings on top of the filter, did you keep a oil cooler ?.. Does the oil still route ok with the factory cooler holes blocked off.
Your question isn't making total sense to me. I'm not sure you completely understand the oil ports.
If you are trying to eliminate the cooler and retain the stock oil filter housing you just pull the cooler off, pull the steel sleeve from the bigger hole and plug both holes. This retains stock filtration configuration without the cooler. If you want to run a remote oil filter housing and / or add an inline cooler at that point the easiest solution is the CBM remote filter adapter which gives you an in and an out fitting to match any old remote oil filter block available from any number of retailers like Summit.
If you want to eliminate the factory oil filter housing completely you cut it off with a sawzall or porta-band, or even machine it off if you have that capability. Then you have to TIG weld an in and out fitting directly to the block and weld closed the drain port from the original filter housing that is cast into the block. Once this is done you add the remote filter housing and / or an inline cooler if you want one.
Pics of both of these procedures are in this thread since I did the former first and ended up doing the latter later.
I don't plan to run a cooler. It has been proven that it's not necessary and I won't ever be running long enough or hard enough to have to worry about oil heat.
Yesterday I cut my axle housings down to length. This was the most stressful, anxiety-producing step of fabrication I think I have ever undertaken. Mainly because it is my first set of custom axles and these housings run about $700 ea. If I cut one too short I would either have to machine slugs to lengthen it again or buy a new housing. So after spending a 2 months taking detailed measurements and modeling those axles up in Solidworks I finally started transferring the cut lines to the real-life housings. I measured about 9 times from 3 different sets of points with 3 different measuring tools and 3 different colors of sharpie markers. Once all 3 colors lined up I was ready to cut.
The leftovers:
Cut down housings:
Everything seems to fit just like it should:
Also pressed the adapter sleeves that were pictures earlier into the inner knuckles in preparation for pressing the knuckles onto the housings:
Very soon. I've got some more shop-time scheduled for Thurs. I need to figure out how I am going to press the knuckles onto the tubes since the entire assembly doesn't fit in my press. I might spend some time doing that but I also want to model up a rough sketch of the engine / trans so that I can start drawing the chassis in Solidworks. I'm not sure how much time I'm going to devote to that. I think probably just an overall design so that I can get an idea of what it will look like and where everything will go. Then I start bending tube.
Your question isn't making total sense to me. I'm not sure you completely understand the oil ports.
If you are trying to eliminate the cooler and retain the stock oil filter housing you just pull the cooler off, pull the steel sleeve from the bigger hole and plug both holes. This retains stock filtration configuration without the cooler. If you want to run a remote oil filter housing and / or add an inline cooler at that point the easiest solution is the CBM remote filter adapter which gives you an in and an out fitting to match any old remote oil filter block available from any number of retailers like Summit.
If you want to eliminate the factory oil filter housing completely you cut it off with a sawzall or porta-band, or even machine it off if you have that capability. Then you have to TIG weld an in and out fitting directly to the block and weld closed the drain port from the original filter housing that is cast into the block. Once this is done you add the remote filter housing and / or an inline cooler if you want one.
Pics of both of these procedures are in this thread since I did the former first and ended up doing the latter later.
I don't plan to run a cooler. It has been proven that it's not necessary and I won't ever be running long enough or hard enough to have to worry about oil heat.
Sorry - weird how after 5 hours reading forum posts, your own posts don't make sense :-).. after some more reading I found the references to pulling the steel sleeve out and plugging the holes, I just brought the bung's and I am borrowing tap. I also ordered the remote housing from CBM, it should be here tomorrow and I can start working on the filter and cooler part.
The big hole I found was a gigantic tap size. I think like 3/4NPT. But the hole was actually too bg for the next size down and too small for the right size. It needed to be drilled but the correct drill size was a weird one that I couldn't find anywhere. I ended up just welding it closed as a result.
I tried pressing my knuckles on Thurs. but got nowhere. I heated the knuckles and froze the tubes with dry ice but my press system wasn't having it. I pulled everything apart and measured the sleeves I had machined and found that their ID's were .010 undersized to what I had asked for. (One of them was actually .020!) It probably would have taken a 200-ton press to press a .010 interference fit on! So I pressed all the sleeves out of the knuckles, opened up the ID's a bit, and pressed them back into the knuckle. It took all day to do all this so I ended the day exactly where I started, nothing done. >:O I'll try pressing them back on the knuckles next week I guess.
Hey, great thread.. Im doing a similar thing with a LSJ into a Miata :-).. When you welded the oil cooler bungs did you just screw into one of those remote oil cooler housings on top of the filter, did you keep a oil cooler ?.. Does the oil still route ok with the factory cooler holes blocked off.
New Question !... How did you get the oil sleeve out, mine seems pretty determined to stay in there
New Question !... How did you get the oil sleeve out, mine seems pretty determined to stay in there
Cheers
Haha, I knew that was going to be your next question.
First i tried tapping it but it is hardened steel and didn't want to tap.
So then I welded a piece of 3/4" threaded rod to it and made a make-shift slide hammer out of a piece of heavy-wall tube and some nuts that I had laying around. That pulled it right out. It is not only pressed, but glued in. I cut the tip of the threaded rod off where I welded and only lost about 1/2" of the rod for future use.
Haha, I knew that was going to be your next question.
First i tried tapping it but it is hardened steel and didn't want to tap.
So then I welded a piece of 3/4" threaded rod to it and made a make-shift slide hammer out of a piece of heavy-wall tube and some nuts that I had laying around. That pulled it right out. It is not only pressed, but glued in. I cut the tip of the threaded rod off where I welded and only lost about 1/2" of the rod for future use.
Awesome !!!! that sounds like my Sunday AM project, Cheers
Found this interesting table, not sure about the accuracy but it seems right. Figure your target boost level in bar and multiply your displacement. Pushing 2 bar absolute (1 bar air pressure + 1 bar boost) on your 2.4l basically bumps you up to having a 4.8l engine.
I thought the same but 1 bar boost = 2 bar absolute and 2.4 * 2 = 4.8. So I figured that's what he meant.
18 psi boost = about 2.25 bar absolute. 2.25 * 2.4 = 5.4L. So on that table 3" should be OK.
I think the stock turbo outlet is 3.5" though. Why wouldn't I do that? I mean, nothing wrong with going too big in a turbo system, is there? I have tons of 3.5" pipe laying around from previous V8 builds. I've never worked with 3" so I don't have a single inch of that.
02-24-2016, 07:43 PM
Moderator
