09turbo

wow this is kinda old.
i have recently had the urge to get a nice DSLR or SLR camera to take some night pictures.
i love pictures at night of a car under a street light, or anything like that really.
i know i will need a slow shutter speed, and a tripod.
i want to be able to take nice pics during the day also... and what else do i need to buy? i see some are just sold as bodies, so what kind of lens or lens 'kit' do i need?

what do you guys thing would be a good first camera for me?
trying to keep the price kinda low

OniMirage

First a limit of how much your willing to spend needs to be established. Depending on how much you can spend the recommended answer will change. For instance you can do exactly what your describing with a basic body and lens but getting a fast prime lens would be better but cost more. Alternatively you can spend more on a camera that in itself excels at night shots and then be able to get away with using a slower basic lens but this in itself can cost even more.

Realistically you should consider setting aside up to $1,000 or more though you don't have to spend that much to get what your after and can easily spend around $500+.

I will explain two options here, one being the fast lens route the other being the camera route.

First the lens route: This option refers to the speed of the lens or lens' ability to gather light based on it's minimum aperture. Aperture is measured by how much light the lens will allow to pass through to the sensor. A smaller number means the lens blades are opened much wider to allow light in so it is considered a minimum since the measurement is based over 1 so the closer to 1 the better.

In understanding this you can consider a decent or basic dslr body and spend more on a great fast prime lens (fixed focal length) or fast zoom lens (adjustable focal length). When thinking of fast lens speed you want something that is 2.8 or less. The 2.8 aperture is where the 'fast lens' term starts and the closer the minimum aperture gets to 1 the faster the lens is.

So will this allow fantastic night shots? No...?!? Why would that be? Well the reason is you also need to consider the fact that the lens doesn't capture the image, the camera does so while you have a lens that will allow a great deal of light to reach the sensor it is ultimately the camera and the settings used which will determine the image output. This means 'practice'. The basic rule to understand when shooting at night is that since there is little light to work with you will have to decide between two major options which will have a huge impact on the image. These options are shutter speed and ISO sensitivity.

First you already mentioned the understanding of needing a slower shutter speed but there is more to it than that. When using a dSLR you must keep in mind that you are using an electronic device and that means that the longer something is used the more electricity and heat it generates. That means the longer the shutter speed the hotter the camera's sensor will get which can degrade images over time. Typically you will not experience something this significant in the image unless your capturing multiple minutes in a single exposure and even then you can use the camera's Noise Reduction option to counter with a slight trade off in image quality.

Next we have ISO sensivity which determines the sensors sensitivity to light by increasing the gain and adjusting the tone curve of the image. The same rule of understanding dSLR's applies here as it does with long shutter speeds, since this is an electrical device, increasing the ISO sensitivity (gain) will have an affect on the image. Typically ISO sensitivity starts at ISO 100 with increases typically being done by doubling the sensitivity. Each increase will of course adjust the cameras ability to capture light so that means faster shutter speeds can be used. So why not shoot at a high ISO all the time? Well increasing the sensitivity of the sensor means your increasing the electrical gain so that means ... less image quality the higher you go. This brings us to our other route.

The camera route: This option means you need to select a camera with an extreme high ISO option over 1600 and can produce good results while doing it. This is normally reserved for full frame cameras. What does this mean? Well the sensor size of a camera plays the highest factor in image quality. Full frame sensor cameras are equal to 35mm film and are among the most expensive cameras you can buy. The average dSLR sizes are of course smaller with four thirds dSLR's being the smallest.

So can camera's with smaller sensors use extreme high ISO options? Yes they can! However, in understanding that Full Frame cameras can produce good image quality using extreme High ISO options this means that using extreme High ISO options on a smaller sensor camera will create a worse image. That doesn't mean it isn't usable but it does mean that unless you buy the best you will need to accept that image quality will suffer when using extreme High ISO options and even more so if your not using a Full Frame camera.

Now that there is an understanding of what to expect you can decide what you would like to do. The cheapest route would be to buy a camera and lens kit and simply work with what you got. Next would be to buy a good body but spend more on a faster and better lens. Finally you can put in some serious cash and get a Full Frame camera and whatever kit lens it comes with if it does come with one or combine the Full Frame camera and fast lens for the best results.

09turbo

wow thank you so much for your time and your input on what i am thinking about doing.

i dont understand when you say that when the slow shutter speed is used, it gets hot, and degrade the images over time.
so your saying that the sensor just keeps getting hot from the shutter speed so it slowly degrades?

i am still kinda lost. i an going to read your post a few more times to get it in my head.
and at most i want to spend like $500. just a nice little camera i can have fun with.
and of course take night shots and i would also like to do some action shots... like the black cavy in this thread

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/pictures-videos-64/photography-information-thread-work-progress-86560/

OniMirage

The sensor runs on a constant electrical current which means heat is being generated on and around the sensor at a constant rate which has an affect on the image (usually in the top corners of the image). Keep in mind this is an issue when exposing in minutes not seconds and most cameras have the noise reduction algorithms to get rid of most of the noise that results from a long exposure. Depending on how long the exposure is and what noise reduction is used the results will of course vary but this is a technical discussion of a different kind. ISO sensitivity contributes to this issue as well since increasing the sensitivity increases the current used so using a long shutter in combination means your even more likely to experience the issue if exposing in minutes.

What you described for your night shots, a car under a light, can be done in 5-10 second exposures depending on the remaining camera settings and lens used. Other factors come in as well but you shouldn't need more than 30 seconds for what your doing unless your pushing it or doing some very creative very low light shots.

09turbo

ah ok i see what your saying. so what exactly is a good lense for a 5-10 exposure? and i would like to do a few with low light pictures maybe in the future just to be able to play with the capabilities of the camera. so as of now im sure you know what i am after, and as i stated, i would like to spend around $500 just for now, i can put more money into it later on. i just want something i can have fun with. i have kinda looked at a few cameras but i still dont know which one is for me. i am about to go to best buy. guess i can look at them in person and see what i like.

OniMirage

Generally the understanding is portraits get a Canon ... sports get a Nikon, Landscapes get an Olympus. For what you are doing you can generally get any camera and be good to go since optimally you would be using a low ISO sensitivity with long exposure so the playing field is nearly identical for every brand. When you go to the store make sure to ask if they have a memory card and battery for the display cameras, this way you can snap some pics and see how each camera feels. Keep in mind that initially you may be completely lost if you go through the menus so don't bother with that right away. You want to make sure the camera feels good in your hands not some other persons hands.

Also a lot of times know it alls go in and mess with the camera options so don't be alarmed if one camera shoots insanely faster than another or the image capture seems horrible. All of these cameras generally take similar quality images with similar burst speeds aside from Full Frame being the obvious best so don't be discouraged by some fanatic making a different brand look inferior by messing with the settings. If anything use the Auto setting to see how the camera deals with taking an image all on its own.

09turbo

okay thanks. i will be going sometime this weekend, or sometime soon. i will go in and check all of them out and i will write down what i like and what camera and all of that good stuff and come back on here and let you know what happened. i feel i am going to get overwhelmed lol.

MissyMac

I love my nikon d60 but want to get the d90 now.

StyleandSpeed

hey guys can you plz post some more sample pics along with your camera specs and accessories? some previous were pretty helpful, more would be appreciated, thanks!