xtank13

I have to wait on the wheels between finishing the house and my wedding, most of my free money is tied up, but hey. I am shopping for brakes right now. i was planning on the hawk pads, and either stock style rotors or the slotted power stops. as far as any mods go i am still bone stock, except for a shorty antenna. lol. i dont think there is any scca races near my house. the runs i am planning are just some local events put on to just have fun with.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Since when cant you change suspension in Stock? You cant change springs...(puts you in ST). You can replace the shocks/struts, as I recommended, and you can install a rear anitroll bar but it puts you in ST(unless your car is virtually bone stock youll be in ST to start anyway, ST is imo actually a better class since you dont need(arent allowed) true racing tires....youll get your ass handed to you in stock with stock tires) , you can also swap out brake pads as I recommended. And of course none if this matters anyway since you should be running as a novice your first several races anyway. Then when you decide youre into it you decide if you want to make more mods to be competitive in a higher class or if you need to potentially demod to be stock. Technically debadging puts you in ST LOL

BigBrother

Since the last couple of decades, lol.

Correct but incorrect - springs or rear antiroll put you in STX not ST - which isn't stock, and is a much tougher class than ST, lol. The Cobalt/IRL cannot go into ST. Also, you cannot change struts, only shocks (inserts) unless you're talking direct, stock-spec struts, which are kinda pointless, especially since our wonderful alignment loophole wouldn't apply to a non-GM strut as it specifies grinding "to the edge of teh circular stamp mark" which may or may not be either present or in the same location on a non-OEM strut. St is nice in that you don't have to spend the $$ on R-comps to be competitive, but you do need to spend 1/2 as much on competitive street rubber, more on wheels, and a LOT more on other mods! And brake PADS yes, rotors or anything else, no.

Not all regions have a novice class.

True, though I can't see anyone calling me out for the Cobalt "supercharged" badge I added under my Ion badge, or for my tinted lights and windows. If they did, I seriously doubt the judges would rule in their favor, even at nationals - SOME common sense still prevails regarding "perfofmance increase". Adn he wouldn't need to de-mod, 'cuz he's stock right now.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

I wasnt aware the LSJ cars couldnt be in ST.....

You can use basically ANY damper that mounts with the stock hardware, and uses the stock mounting points. SS/TC dampers are 100% legal on all Balts(and Ions and G5s and HHRs for that matter) You can run $7000 Anze struts and shocks in GS if you want to.

I never mentioned rotors did I?

BigBrother

ST does not allow forced induction, or only very small ones anyway, STX is all forced induction cars up to 2.0 liters.

I stand corrected regarding teh struts, although you'd still be limited to stock alignment as the loophole that gets us up to -2.5 or so degrees in front applies only to the stock struts. :shrug:

I didn't say you mentioned rotors, he mentioned looking into powerslots.

Not trying to argue, lol.

jlaudiog5

so i have a 2005 LS with of course - drums in the rear, i can switch to disks? for how much?

Maven

iTrader: (1)

~$900-$1200 for aftermarket rear disc kit. OR

Complete SS rear axle.

Halfcent

If you do the complete rear axle however, keep in mind that your wheel lug patterns won't match. Swapping axles also means swapping a lot of other parts too. The cheapest way is to just get the rear disk kit. SSBC makes a very nice one.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

No, it really doesnt mean swapping that much. If you get a complete axle with park brake cables all you need to swap is the hubs(put your 4 lug on) and drill the rotors to match the 4lug pattern, youll also need rotor centering rings. Youll have to swap park brake cables too.

I wouldnt recommend going to rear disc unless youre planning on upgrading the fronts as well. If youve got ABS you really should consider switching out the BPMV portion of the ABS assembly to a disc version($300 new from dealer, maybe $50 at a yard) you dont HAVE to, but it will make your ABS happier and require less electronic distribution function. If youve got nonABS brakes you need to figure out the safe proportioning on your own.

lego126

Has anyone actually put SS/TC struts on a SS/SC? I was just wondering how much stiffer the ride was. I'm worried if i do this, I won't be able to drive on the horrible roads in Michigan.

Also, my impression from reading this post is that I won't need any modification to put the SS/TC struts on my car, is this correct?

Maven

iTrader: (1)

No mods needed at all.

Ive got SS/TC struts on my LS, I had SS/SC struts. The ride is more controlled.....When I had SS/TC springs and SS/SC struts the ride could get a little floaty or "springy" over uneven roads, SS/TC control car movement better.

qwikredline

ditto i have SS/TC struts and shocks on my Redline, I had SS/SC struts and shocks. the ride is more controlled etc etc

whatsupfromcali

Ok so i have a 2004 ion 2 with the 2.2 ecotech. I think i have the fe2 setup dont want to change front sway bar yet added rear but my question is can i just order the stuff for the fe5 and it will bolt up ok? I have no idea how big my front sway bar is but i added 21mm to rear. When i looked up bushing it showed fe1 and fe3 1 being soft and 3 being sport wanted to upgrade bushing as awell as control arm setup etc i have 4x100 setup front disk rear drum. it is worth changing from fe1 or fe 2 to fe5?

does fe1 or fe3 use same size bushings?
here are the bushings
Part Number: W0133-1798469
Notes: w/ Soft Ride Suspension (PO FE1)

Part Number: W0133-1798471
Notes: w/ Sport Ride Suspension (PO FE3)
i have called saturn but the ones in ca are very stupid. told me it didn't have a rear sway bar but there is one. I added another.

nevermind i have the 22mm rear swar bar not the 21mm. it is worth the switch from fe 1 but i think i have fe2, to fe5? much of a difference? and how much will it cost?

BigBrother

First - there is no FE2, just 1, 3, and 5.

Second - There is no stock rear sway unless you count the bar that's welded inside the torsion beam. If there was one, it was aftermarket. The stock bar that's welded in isn't so much a rear sway bar as part of the entire rear suspension (again, it's a welded part of the twist beam and trailing arms) and cannot be ordered separately, that's whhy there;s no part number for a rear sway.

As for your questions - the biggest difference in suspension - not getting into the 4 bolt/5bolt hubs and the knuckles and whatnot - is in the springs and shocks, as well as the bushings and lower control arms. Front sway also - they're pretty much completely different systems -but you don't need to swap ALL of it (which requires welding in teh rear and a lot of changes up front as well) if you want some basic improvement.

Start with FE3 or FE5 (pre '08 FE5 anyway) strut assembliess (they're the same as yours as far as the housing, just get the complete assembly with FE3 or 5 shocks and springs is what I mean) and go from there. One of the real experts (I know my **** but qwik or maven or some others know a LOT more) could tell you more as far as bushings, but you should be able to use the FE3 or 5 springs and shocks as well as LCA's.

The knuckles are all the same until the LNF, which has other issues besides whether or not it bolts up.

Hubs and axles are a different beast altogether, especially in the rear.

You can get lowering springs that are as good or better than the upgraded stock 3/5 springs cheap, especially used. You can get Koni Yellow adjustable shocks to go with them for just a little more than replacement struts including shocks, unless you go used - and you don't want lowering springs on teh stockers for very long (although the FE5 shocks might hold up better than the 3's). You already have a new rear swaybar. If I were you, I'd put Koni inserts and Progress or another brand springs into and over your existing struts (which are the same housing as the higher end suspensions) and see if FE5 LCA's work with your car. That combo will yield better overall performance than spending almost the same money on upgraded stock stuff.

My '02...

Halfcent

While I can't be sure, I think the Ion's in fact did have an FE2 suspension. I know the Cobalts did not. Anyway, Ions and Cobalts are the same GM Delta platform. I can't be positive about some of the small details, but you can be pretty sure that every Cobalt suspension part of any system will fit just fine in your Ion.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

The FE5 front sway bar will definitely make a noticeable difference, they run about $50-60 shipped, plus youll need bushings. The 2005 SS/SC bushings should be the ones you want.

whatsupfromcali

I just put on monroe shocks and struts all around kyb are unavailable till mid july. I have tein lower springs lowered it pretty good more them 1.5 in front. I added the progress rear sway bar, i will look to see if the stock on it is welded in cause i thought i saw rear bushings. Where can i get a stock fe5 front sway bar and will i need the fe5 end links? I will like to change as much as i can with out changing shocks and springs again? So what does that leave me with?

Forgot to say progress rear swar bar is bulted up by a u bolt should i weld it in? There are no bushing on this one. I have been starting to hear my front bushings when goin over bumps again. Not covered anymore. Good time to up grade bar i guess

Forgot to say progress rear swar bar is bulted up by a u bolt should i weld it in? There are no bushing on this one. I have been starting to hear my front bushings when goin over bumps again. Not covered anymore. Good time to up grade bar i guess

Saturn wanted 260$ ea for front fe2 struts that is why i got monroe

BigBrother

I forgot about the Cobalt springs not fitting. My bad, lol. I didn't know about the FE2 - what makes it different than the 1/3? And of course the Ions don't have 5, but the Cobalts do, I was refferring to the whole picture, lol.

You've already got good springs over aftermarket struts and a rear sway. Upgrading the front sway will make a difference in that it will balance the car out again, the Progress rear bar increases front end grip. Upgrading teh front will bring the car back towards where it was originally balance-wise (not LIKE stock, but closer than it is now) but with more overall grip. I hope that made sense, lol.

I would get the 3 or 5 front swaybar and the PowerGrid endlinks. You can get the bar anywhere, Moradpartscompany.com is my place of choice for stock stuff. The endlinks aren't cheap, but $159 isnt too terrible either, and they are awesome pieces that will give you some tuning capability with the front preload. They should last quite a bit longer, too.

whatsupfromcali

thanx will check it out

whatsupfromcali

I went to the website but didnt see any front sway bars by themselves. Were with rear or springs and shocks. Any other good web sites?

Maven

iTrader: (1)

yeah, gmpartsdirect.com the front bar is only like $50 new.

Halfcent

Not a lot of GM parts counters run their stores like what you find on the internet. They sell one part at a time, part number by part number. Remember that their core business is suppling the maintenance shop attached to the same dealership, not the typical tuner.

Tom at Crate Engine Depot recognized that and put up a nice internet store front. But the basic truth is he is still a GM parts counter, which is great for you and me. You can get any part you want. Tom put together on his web site a nice FE5 full suspension package, but you don't have to get that exact thing if you don't want. Put together a list of what you want exactly, and then send it to him. He will make you a great deal.

And now for something completely different...

Hey Maven, answer my PM!

whatsupfromcali

Ok so there is no fe2 on ion i guess gm just tells people it does. Was told i had one step up from stock but i looked up the code from trunk it says fe1 wtf. Good thing i dont have stock shocks and springs. Ion 2

Ok so i have 19mm front sway and 16mm added 22 mm sway bar. Thats 38mm in the rear so will the 24mm be to much for dd in the front or will 22 be enough? Not much difference from 19 to 22 tho.

rtullos808

If you had the weight of the iron calipers vs. the aluminum ones, that would be cool also.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

I posted it in another thread, but the Brembos are just over 9lbs fully loaded(pads, pins, clips) and LSJ iron calipers are about 2.5lbs heavier or so.(EACH)