Tuner Review Thread
06-15-2012, 02:29 PM
#77
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06-15-2012, 02:31 PM
#78
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Dont forget the same car needs to be used because some LNFs make more power than others even if the tune and mods are the same.
06-16-2012, 12:36 AM
#81
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I know he lives a good amount away. My idea was u take 3 cars of urs 3 cars of hissame mods dyno and see the results of both of ur guys tuning skills. Just something fun an to show the community ur skills if they are on the fence about a tuner
good publicly right their lol
Not that any one of u need it lol unless cobalt guys are new to the site or live under a rock lol
good publicly right their lol Not that any one of u need it lol unless cobalt guys are new to the site or live under a rock lol
06-16-2012, 01:38 AM
#82
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i dont remember seeing this thread...oh well James ftw! trust him with all the setups ive had and trust him to tune mine for good numbers but with a safe tune!...id recommend him to anyone!
06-16-2012, 01:30 PM
#83
It would have to be the same car to dyno and tune on . For example, I had a car in Indiana which took 19* on 93 with 24 spike and 23 steady o I could bring a car like so that takes timing like a champ because it's a Frankenstein engine vs possible one of terms guys who may only get 15* and etc at the same boost and all. So it isn't correct to do different cars. Ecause different results withine engine health and etc
06-16-2012, 02:11 PM
#84
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As far as I know there is only one member on here that could review both me and James as far as tuning and that is Vahdyx. He had a trifecta tune before as well so he has had 3 different tunes.
06-17-2012, 01:26 AM
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lol just like a junkie all it takes is one good hit an hey will be back for more 
ya I've been back an fourth talking with james. great guy awesome help once my ass gets my turbo parts put in then his tune comes
ya I've been back an fourth talking with james. great guy awesome help once my ass gets my turbo parts put in then his tune comes
06-17-2012, 11:43 AM
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06-17-2012, 04:24 PM
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Ah so this is where it is...
Yes I've had several tunes... I'm a very conflicted person in general, so if you know me personally it's hard for me to be satisfied with any decision I make lol. From cars to tablet pc, to TVs to anything. I always struggle to be happy. My story goes ZZP Canned, Trifecta, CCSS3, Trifecta, CCSS3, Term. I'll explain this later.
While I'm here I might as well review all the tunes I've had.
It's gonna be a long one, but keep in mind I like them all and they all had their pros and cons. I respect all the tuners I've had and I don't want this to be he's better than him or so on. If you guys want I'll get my term and ccss3 tune dyno'd but I'll mention in the reviews later, why I don't feel there's a need.
Both Term and CCSS3 are helping me understand tuning better. They both have their methods and both are incredible at what they do. In my honest opinion, you'd be happy with either. I considered M-Dub, but I don't trust his tunes, that said it's just his reputation that precedes him, I've never personally experienced his tunes and will never. There's a lot of 5280cobalt members running around with his tunes and most seem happy. Some are having issues with their car, but no idea if it's tuning related or not.
Okay now I wanna mention a little about me and why I "feel" (I don't know) I'm different than most Cobalt owners out there. I feel most cobalt owners want the most power out of their cars and will do anything to get it. I'm not this way and maybe it's because I don't have a high knowledge of cars. So I like to feel "comfortable" with the power I'm making. Even if it's not up to standard. I could be the slowest K04+ out there, but that's fine with me as long as I feel good. Like I said, I want to feel comfortable with what I'm making. Why not get a GMS1 and call it a day, well I don't feel comfortable with GMS1 with aftermarket parts. Why not stick with Trifecta then, I'll get to that later.
My Geolocation is Colorado and I live west of Denver closer to the mountains in a little town called wheat ridge. It's altitude is higher than Denvers 5,280ft. A lot of cars up here with NA motors run a lot slower than they would at sea level.
This is the first car I've owned with more than 200hp (well I had a stock SS/SC for about 6 months to a year). So yes I'm a rookie and an idiot. I'm not denying that one bit. I have very little experience with anything car related this is Fact and no lie. But I'm learning and I don't plan on getting it over night. My car history is a 1994 Acura LSVTEC and yes I paid shops to do everything on that car. Basic bolt ons and added VTEC. I probably made 200 at the crank, but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't. Everything before that were POS's like my 1985 Subaru Wagon. So before my FI cars, the fastest car I've owned was the integra and I never did a single thing to it myself.
Okay lets get started.
ZZP Canned
ZZP Canned tune had the biggest "OMFG" factor, on stock turbo. That's because I went from stock tune to HP tuned. Little did I know it was the weakest and probably most unsafe of them all (just a theory about the safeness). I can't imagine if I went with Trifecta, CCSS3 or Term straight from stock. I think I'd probably crash into a wall, probably too much power for me to handle. Who knows, but I got it dyno'd and I made 262whp and 371wtq, yes 371... The weird thing was my boost would drop very fast. I'd go from 22psi down to 16psi in a matter of seconds before redline. I assumed this was ZZPs method of being safe, but later people were saying it's because ZZP doesn't know how to tune in high altitudes.
It was a fun tune, and after I added stuff I made it to 290whp and 373wtq.
I started hearing rumors of canned tunes being bad for our cars. Datalogging is critical and I started to feel unsafe. Whether or not this is true for ZZPs canned tune, I have no idea to this day, but I quickly mustered up some cash and bought Trifecta.
Pros; Easy install, cheap, no datalogging, power gains over stock
Cons; no datalogging, power gains over stock, and possibly unsafe.
Trifecta Round 1
Trifecta tuned me to 23psi, took like 2 months to get me dialed in and this is where my hatred of datalogging began. I hate speeding and feeling worried about cops, but after all was said and done I was pretty happy. Except I didn't know how to control wheel spin and my 1/4 mile times were pretty bad.
I got this dyno'd and I didn't add a single part since ZZP Canned and I went up 10whp and down 10wtq making me 300whp and 367wtq.
I added a few more parts and I ended up 310whp 377tq. Cool enough if you ask me.
I was pretty happy until I ended up hearing all this HPT is 100x better and safer than Trifecta if you have the right tuner. Once again, I started to doubt my safety and started researching it. There was enough Trifecta users complaining and enough HPT guys providing evidence that I decided to get HPT.
Pros; Conservative, good power, friendly customer service
Cons; Long time to respond to email. Datalogging took ages.
CCSS3 Round 1
I don't remember if I contacted James or if he contacted me with one of my replies to a thread concerned about Trifecta. He offered to tune me and not charge me up front. I jumped on it and found a cheap HPT from someone locally.
We went ahead and started tuning. Log after log and I was getting frustrated with all the logging, I think I was on my 25th log and It started getting to me. I was getting knock and he couldn't figure out why and wanted me to do stuff to my car that Trifecta didn't. So I started getting annoyed and I started thinking he didn't know how to tune. I was getting uncomfortable with my car and a lot of that was due to me not knowing what was happening. At this point, I still paid people to work on my car. I didn't own a single tool. I had a dyno scheduled. James warned me that I wasn't done with logging, but I was fed up and didn't heed his warning.
Got dyno'd and and I was at like 305whp and 425wtq. Crazy amounts of go power on stock turbo, but I was getting knock and the guys dyno'ing my car thought it was unsafe and told me all sorts of things that scared me (later I discovered they don't understand LNFs like the tuners here do). So I fired CCSS3 and went back to Trifecta. Not listening to him and heeding his warnings about changing plugs, finishing logging etc. I blamed him and that was that. It's always easier to blame someone else than accept the fact you screwed things right. CCSS3 and I had no hard feelings for each other, we just didn't agree and kept it mature and civil. He continued to help me even after I left him, a pretty stand up guy huh? I don't know if I'd be that kind to someone that basically insulted my skills and legitimately meant it at the time lol.
Pros; More power, great customer service, patients for the stupid customers i.e. me, readily available
Cons; a lot of logging, fans on all the time, and second gear was all or nothing so made DD difficult, spelling and grammar
Trifecta Round 2
Man did this feel slow! After I went back to Trifecta my car felt way slower than HPT, but I was content. It was safe as far as I can tell. I bought some AeroForce Gauges and then that's when my fear for Trifecta continued again. I was getting LTFTs in the +9 and as low as -11 with my day to day. I asked Vince about this and he said I'll never have perfect LTFTs and when I was WOT I'd get up to +15 and stuff.
I sent him logs and asked him for 24psi instead of 23. He gave it to me and I logged for awhile.
Then I upgraded my turbo to the K04+ (another story but I received a broken one from a member on here) After I received a actual working unit I started noticing things i didn't like. Boost bounce, surge, etc with my slightly bigger turbo. Vince said it's either bounce or lower the boost to 20psi. I didn't like that's the options he gave me. I also didn't like my LTFTs and I didn't like the response times I was getting. So I wrote a thread about it and CCSS3 helped. I mentioned it to Vince and the problem went away and I was able to have 25psi, no boost bounce and I was happy enough. I sent him a log and literally a month later I get a revision. I couldn't handle it any more and I decided to go back to HPT.
Pros; 347whp 397wtq on 91 octane
Cons; Surge/flutter, Boost Bounce, response time, telling me things are normal.
CCSS3 round 2
So I contacted CCSS3 again and asked him to tune my K04+. He set down some ground rules and we began. He didn't want us to end up like we were before. At this point I was more familiar with my car (far from expert) and had a set of basic tools to work with. I had adjusted my plugs and we logged. However I still hated logging. Log after log, but I kept an open mind and we finally got logged in. He also kept an open mind and helped by speeding up my logging process. I was finally dialed in which was a first for me and CCSS3. I was able to go play. I liked his tune, but I was concerned about my weird AFRs. They would fluctuate and it would cause my boost gauge to bounce in vacuum. It would go up and down, up and down like one or 2 psi in vacuum (ex; -15 to -14 or -13 and back to -15 at idle) This AFR issue would make my RPMs go up and down too. It sounded cool, but I didn't like it. I brought it up to James and he did some stuff and said it's normal for it to do this. I unplugged my Evap Solenoid and the problem went away, but when I bought a new evap the problem was still there. It only happened at idle too. The problem with second gear was gone, no longer all or nothing type of driving. So my daily felt nicer. 25psi to boot
Anyway, I knew nothing last forever and if James ever stopped tuning, I'd be force to find a new tuner or learn myself. I'll never be able to create a tune from nothing, so I figured I'd just use his and modify it as needed. So I asked him to teach me. We had a good 2 hour phone call of him teaching me goodies on HPT. All I really got out of that was I'm in over my head. He's so damn in depth and I learned to respect tuners a lot more. I send him tunes of mine and he critiques them, usually with frowny faces because they are **** poor.
So I figured I'd ask another tuner to help me understand too. I wanted another perspective to get a wide range of tuning knowledge. This lead me to Term. Term helped me out and in my frustration I asked him to just tune me. He agreed lol.
Pros; Good power, stable LTFTs, extremely fast response times
Cons; Lots of Logging, and I mean a lot of it. his tune seems limited to certain areas and if I venture outside of my logging area the trims go off.
Terminator Tune
I got Terms base file and was surprised how well it felt for a DD tune. Terms tune was very peppy and provided me with no unusual behavior which made me very happy. The car felt like it really liked the tune. Remember comfort is what I go for. So it was powerful and felt like it did when I first bought the car in terms of stability. I wasn't worried with his tune one bit and the best part is I was tuned and dialed in, in like a week and a half two weeks. I had to log about once or twice a day. Term also tuned for various driving conditions and altitudes by averaging out the variables. Colorado can change several hundred feet in a couple miles one direction. Not to mention the density altitude changes with temperature. So it made me feel like my car was versatile for year round driving. Terms tune just feels right. This made me feel like I could go anywhere and not worry about LTFTs getting to high or low. Term tuned me for 24 psi and I am pretty happy with it.
Term is also giving me tips on tuning and it's been really helpful. I have sent him a couple of my tunes as well and I don't think I should ever tune someone else car but mine lol. Not like I was planning to anyway, but it'll be a year or so before I get good enough I'd say.
Pro; Very good feeling tune, Good power, fast response times, good customer service
Con; Car seems to run hotter
Term and CCSS3 Comparison
Okay now that I got that out the way, the difference between Term and CCSS3 is minimal in my opinion. They have different tuning styles for sure, but they're both GREAT tuners and I think it'd be a good idea to go with either one.
As my experience stands now, I prefer the tuning style of Term, but I do feel like CCSS3 has more torque. At least in the two versions of their tunes I have. They both knew I wanted something conservative and they both tuned conservatively and that's how I want it. Their timing and boost levels are about the same. CCSS3 has about 1 degree more in timing and 1 extra pound of boost and it's hardly noticeable, but the power factor does go slightly towards CCSS3 when it comes to my conservative tunes. However the daily drive goes towards Term. CCSS3s tune is more torquey but Terms tune feels just as fast because I ran 13.9 with CCSS3's tune and ran 13.9 with Terms tune, both with 2.2 60ft times.
Terms tune doesn't have fluctuating AFRs like CCSS3s tune does and Terms tune also has a very smooth 1st to second gear transition. CCSS3's tune felt like second is the gear with the most power. Both 3rd gears felt similar in power, with me giving a edge to CCSS3.
I feel like they're both similar in performance and I feel like it'd be a waste of money to dyno them. I honestly feel like with my conservative tunes they'd end up very similar to what I got with Trifecta. Now if I wanted something aggressive I'm sure they'd both have different settings in my car and it'd be more entertaining for you guys to see the numbers, but my car isn't a good example to base tuning abilities on. They're both holding back because of my desires as a owner. I'm sure they'd both throw E85 in there and have an all out match using my car as a benchmark achieving extremely high numbers that'll just boggle my mind and make me feel worried. I for one won't have it on my car and Colorado isn't the most tuner friendly area, so someone else perhaps eastern coast will have to compare their more aggressive tunes. Both tuners expressed how thin the air is up here and both I think would prefer not to tune cars up here lol. Just a guess.
In the end, I think both are great people morally, ethically, technically and if you like one there's a good chance you'll like the other.
I think both guys are great and hopefully this doesn't get taken the wrong way because that's the last thing I want lol.
***Update June 20th 2012***
Term gave me more boost a couple days ago, not sure exactly what else he changed, but it's more torque-y now too. He had me uber conservative and just tuned it up a little I guess but still keeping it conservative. My original plan was to go to the track today and see what the change did for me, but I didn't wanna pay $30 today when I have $0 in my checking account. I didn't wanna use a credit card or dip into savings as much as I wanted to.
Anyway the change that Term gave me definitely gives Term a edge in power now in third, but second gear seems harder to tell, could go either way. I'm still at the same timing as before which is approximately one degree less than CCSS3s, but the boost levels are the same at 25psi. The tests were at 60mph 3rd gear and flooring it and a rolling start through 1st with an unknown starting WOT speed in second gear. They'd both go to 25-26psi, but sometimes it'd be at 24 for either one and redlining near 20psi. I did the test in 2 different days so not sure how you guys wanna take that. I know this isn't exactly accurate or scientific, but it's all I have at the moment. Well hope that helps.
Yes I've had several tunes... I'm a very conflicted person in general, so if you know me personally it's hard for me to be satisfied with any decision I make lol. From cars to tablet pc, to TVs to anything. I always struggle to be happy. My story goes ZZP Canned, Trifecta, CCSS3, Trifecta, CCSS3, Term. I'll explain this later.
While I'm here I might as well review all the tunes I've had.
It's gonna be a long one, but keep in mind I like them all and they all had their pros and cons. I respect all the tuners I've had and I don't want this to be he's better than him or so on. If you guys want I'll get my term and ccss3 tune dyno'd but I'll mention in the reviews later, why I don't feel there's a need.
Both Term and CCSS3 are helping me understand tuning better. They both have their methods and both are incredible at what they do. In my honest opinion, you'd be happy with either. I considered M-Dub, but I don't trust his tunes, that said it's just his reputation that precedes him, I've never personally experienced his tunes and will never. There's a lot of 5280cobalt members running around with his tunes and most seem happy. Some are having issues with their car, but no idea if it's tuning related or not.
Okay now I wanna mention a little about me and why I "feel" (I don't know) I'm different than most Cobalt owners out there. I feel most cobalt owners want the most power out of their cars and will do anything to get it. I'm not this way and maybe it's because I don't have a high knowledge of cars. So I like to feel "comfortable" with the power I'm making. Even if it's not up to standard. I could be the slowest K04+ out there, but that's fine with me as long as I feel good. Like I said, I want to feel comfortable with what I'm making. Why not get a GMS1 and call it a day, well I don't feel comfortable with GMS1 with aftermarket parts. Why not stick with Trifecta then, I'll get to that later.
My Geolocation is Colorado and I live west of Denver closer to the mountains in a little town called wheat ridge. It's altitude is higher than Denvers 5,280ft. A lot of cars up here with NA motors run a lot slower than they would at sea level.
This is the first car I've owned with more than 200hp (well I had a stock SS/SC for about 6 months to a year). So yes I'm a rookie and an idiot. I'm not denying that one bit. I have very little experience with anything car related this is Fact and no lie. But I'm learning and I don't plan on getting it over night. My car history is a 1994 Acura LSVTEC and yes I paid shops to do everything on that car. Basic bolt ons and added VTEC. I probably made 200 at the crank, but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't. Everything before that were POS's like my 1985 Subaru Wagon. So before my FI cars, the fastest car I've owned was the integra and I never did a single thing to it myself.
Okay lets get started.
ZZP Canned
ZZP Canned tune had the biggest "OMFG" factor, on stock turbo. That's because I went from stock tune to HP tuned. Little did I know it was the weakest and probably most unsafe of them all (just a theory about the safeness). I can't imagine if I went with Trifecta, CCSS3 or Term straight from stock. I think I'd probably crash into a wall, probably too much power for me to handle. Who knows, but I got it dyno'd and I made 262whp and 371wtq, yes 371... The weird thing was my boost would drop very fast. I'd go from 22psi down to 16psi in a matter of seconds before redline. I assumed this was ZZPs method of being safe, but later people were saying it's because ZZP doesn't know how to tune in high altitudes.
It was a fun tune, and after I added stuff I made it to 290whp and 373wtq.
I started hearing rumors of canned tunes being bad for our cars. Datalogging is critical and I started to feel unsafe. Whether or not this is true for ZZPs canned tune, I have no idea to this day, but I quickly mustered up some cash and bought Trifecta.
Pros; Easy install, cheap, no datalogging, power gains over stock
Cons; no datalogging, power gains over stock, and possibly unsafe.
Trifecta Round 1
Trifecta tuned me to 23psi, took like 2 months to get me dialed in and this is where my hatred of datalogging began. I hate speeding and feeling worried about cops, but after all was said and done I was pretty happy. Except I didn't know how to control wheel spin and my 1/4 mile times were pretty bad.
I got this dyno'd and I didn't add a single part since ZZP Canned and I went up 10whp and down 10wtq making me 300whp and 367wtq.
I added a few more parts and I ended up 310whp 377tq. Cool enough if you ask me.
I was pretty happy until I ended up hearing all this HPT is 100x better and safer than Trifecta if you have the right tuner. Once again, I started to doubt my safety and started researching it. There was enough Trifecta users complaining and enough HPT guys providing evidence that I decided to get HPT.
Pros; Conservative, good power, friendly customer service
Cons; Long time to respond to email. Datalogging took ages.
CCSS3 Round 1
I don't remember if I contacted James or if he contacted me with one of my replies to a thread concerned about Trifecta. He offered to tune me and not charge me up front. I jumped on it and found a cheap HPT from someone locally.
We went ahead and started tuning. Log after log and I was getting frustrated with all the logging, I think I was on my 25th log and It started getting to me. I was getting knock and he couldn't figure out why and wanted me to do stuff to my car that Trifecta didn't. So I started getting annoyed and I started thinking he didn't know how to tune. I was getting uncomfortable with my car and a lot of that was due to me not knowing what was happening. At this point, I still paid people to work on my car. I didn't own a single tool. I had a dyno scheduled. James warned me that I wasn't done with logging, but I was fed up and didn't heed his warning.
Got dyno'd and and I was at like 305whp and 425wtq. Crazy amounts of go power on stock turbo, but I was getting knock and the guys dyno'ing my car thought it was unsafe and told me all sorts of things that scared me (later I discovered they don't understand LNFs like the tuners here do). So I fired CCSS3 and went back to Trifecta. Not listening to him and heeding his warnings about changing plugs, finishing logging etc. I blamed him and that was that. It's always easier to blame someone else than accept the fact you screwed things right. CCSS3 and I had no hard feelings for each other, we just didn't agree and kept it mature and civil. He continued to help me even after I left him, a pretty stand up guy huh? I don't know if I'd be that kind to someone that basically insulted my skills and legitimately meant it at the time lol.
Pros; More power, great customer service, patients for the stupid customers i.e. me, readily available
Cons; a lot of logging, fans on all the time, and second gear was all or nothing so made DD difficult, spelling and grammar
Trifecta Round 2
Man did this feel slow! After I went back to Trifecta my car felt way slower than HPT, but I was content. It was safe as far as I can tell. I bought some AeroForce Gauges and then that's when my fear for Trifecta continued again. I was getting LTFTs in the +9 and as low as -11 with my day to day. I asked Vince about this and he said I'll never have perfect LTFTs and when I was WOT I'd get up to +15 and stuff.
I sent him logs and asked him for 24psi instead of 23. He gave it to me and I logged for awhile.
Then I upgraded my turbo to the K04+ (another story but I received a broken one from a member on here) After I received a actual working unit I started noticing things i didn't like. Boost bounce, surge, etc with my slightly bigger turbo. Vince said it's either bounce or lower the boost to 20psi. I didn't like that's the options he gave me. I also didn't like my LTFTs and I didn't like the response times I was getting. So I wrote a thread about it and CCSS3 helped. I mentioned it to Vince and the problem went away and I was able to have 25psi, no boost bounce and I was happy enough. I sent him a log and literally a month later I get a revision. I couldn't handle it any more and I decided to go back to HPT.
Pros; 347whp 397wtq on 91 octane
Cons; Surge/flutter, Boost Bounce, response time, telling me things are normal.
CCSS3 round 2
So I contacted CCSS3 again and asked him to tune my K04+. He set down some ground rules and we began. He didn't want us to end up like we were before. At this point I was more familiar with my car (far from expert) and had a set of basic tools to work with. I had adjusted my plugs and we logged. However I still hated logging. Log after log, but I kept an open mind and we finally got logged in. He also kept an open mind and helped by speeding up my logging process. I was finally dialed in which was a first for me and CCSS3. I was able to go play. I liked his tune, but I was concerned about my weird AFRs. They would fluctuate and it would cause my boost gauge to bounce in vacuum. It would go up and down, up and down like one or 2 psi in vacuum (ex; -15 to -14 or -13 and back to -15 at idle) This AFR issue would make my RPMs go up and down too. It sounded cool, but I didn't like it. I brought it up to James and he did some stuff and said it's normal for it to do this. I unplugged my Evap Solenoid and the problem went away, but when I bought a new evap the problem was still there. It only happened at idle too. The problem with second gear was gone, no longer all or nothing type of driving. So my daily felt nicer. 25psi to boot
Anyway, I knew nothing last forever and if James ever stopped tuning, I'd be force to find a new tuner or learn myself. I'll never be able to create a tune from nothing, so I figured I'd just use his and modify it as needed. So I asked him to teach me. We had a good 2 hour phone call of him teaching me goodies on HPT. All I really got out of that was I'm in over my head. He's so damn in depth and I learned to respect tuners a lot more. I send him tunes of mine and he critiques them, usually with frowny faces because they are **** poor.
So I figured I'd ask another tuner to help me understand too. I wanted another perspective to get a wide range of tuning knowledge. This lead me to Term. Term helped me out and in my frustration I asked him to just tune me. He agreed lol.
Pros; Good power, stable LTFTs, extremely fast response times
Cons; Lots of Logging, and I mean a lot of it. his tune seems limited to certain areas and if I venture outside of my logging area the trims go off.
Terminator Tune
I got Terms base file and was surprised how well it felt for a DD tune. Terms tune was very peppy and provided me with no unusual behavior which made me very happy. The car felt like it really liked the tune. Remember comfort is what I go for. So it was powerful and felt like it did when I first bought the car in terms of stability. I wasn't worried with his tune one bit and the best part is I was tuned and dialed in, in like a week and a half two weeks. I had to log about once or twice a day. Term also tuned for various driving conditions and altitudes by averaging out the variables. Colorado can change several hundred feet in a couple miles one direction. Not to mention the density altitude changes with temperature. So it made me feel like my car was versatile for year round driving. Terms tune just feels right. This made me feel like I could go anywhere and not worry about LTFTs getting to high or low. Term tuned me for 24 psi and I am pretty happy with it.
Term is also giving me tips on tuning and it's been really helpful. I have sent him a couple of my tunes as well and I don't think I should ever tune someone else car but mine lol. Not like I was planning to anyway, but it'll be a year or so before I get good enough I'd say.
Pro; Very good feeling tune, Good power, fast response times, good customer service
Con; Car seems to run hotter
Term and CCSS3 Comparison
Okay now that I got that out the way, the difference between Term and CCSS3 is minimal in my opinion. They have different tuning styles for sure, but they're both GREAT tuners and I think it'd be a good idea to go with either one.
As my experience stands now, I prefer the tuning style of Term, but I do feel like CCSS3 has more torque. At least in the two versions of their tunes I have. They both knew I wanted something conservative and they both tuned conservatively and that's how I want it. Their timing and boost levels are about the same. CCSS3 has about 1 degree more in timing and 1 extra pound of boost and it's hardly noticeable, but the power factor does go slightly towards CCSS3 when it comes to my conservative tunes. However the daily drive goes towards Term. CCSS3s tune is more torquey but Terms tune feels just as fast because I ran 13.9 with CCSS3's tune and ran 13.9 with Terms tune, both with 2.2 60ft times.
Terms tune doesn't have fluctuating AFRs like CCSS3s tune does and Terms tune also has a very smooth 1st to second gear transition. CCSS3's tune felt like second is the gear with the most power. Both 3rd gears felt similar in power, with me giving a edge to CCSS3.
I feel like they're both similar in performance and I feel like it'd be a waste of money to dyno them. I honestly feel like with my conservative tunes they'd end up very similar to what I got with Trifecta. Now if I wanted something aggressive I'm sure they'd both have different settings in my car and it'd be more entertaining for you guys to see the numbers, but my car isn't a good example to base tuning abilities on. They're both holding back because of my desires as a owner. I'm sure they'd both throw E85 in there and have an all out match using my car as a benchmark achieving extremely high numbers that'll just boggle my mind and make me feel worried. I for one won't have it on my car and Colorado isn't the most tuner friendly area, so someone else perhaps eastern coast will have to compare their more aggressive tunes. Both tuners expressed how thin the air is up here and both I think would prefer not to tune cars up here lol. Just a guess.
In the end, I think both are great people morally, ethically, technically and if you like one there's a good chance you'll like the other.
I think both guys are great and hopefully this doesn't get taken the wrong way because that's the last thing I want lol.
***Update June 20th 2012***
Term gave me more boost a couple days ago, not sure exactly what else he changed, but it's more torque-y now too. He had me uber conservative and just tuned it up a little I guess but still keeping it conservative. My original plan was to go to the track today and see what the change did for me, but I didn't wanna pay $30 today when I have $0 in my checking account. I didn't wanna use a credit card or dip into savings as much as I wanted to.
Anyway the change that Term gave me definitely gives Term a edge in power now in third, but second gear seems harder to tell, could go either way. I'm still at the same timing as before which is approximately one degree less than CCSS3s, but the boost levels are the same at 25psi. The tests were at 60mph 3rd gear and flooring it and a rolling start through 1st with an unknown starting WOT speed in second gear. They'd both go to 25-26psi, but sometimes it'd be at 24 for either one and redlining near 20psi. I did the test in 2 different days so not sure how you guys wanna take that. I know this isn't exactly accurate or scientific, but it's all I have at the moment. Well hope that helps.
Last edited by vahdyx; 06-20-2012 at 09:22 PM.
06-19-2012, 11:36 PM
#95
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Join Date: 07-18-10
Location: oshkosh wi
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Awesome write up, Its nice to see someone do an honest write up on tunes and tuner's they have worked with. I for one would feel safe and happy getting a tune from either one of these guys. I know CCSS3 a little more then term seeing as i have no talked to term lol. Anyway he seems like an awesome guy just like CCSS3.
I enjoyed ur write up a lot god honest no bullshit just straight facts ! I spoke to CC months ago and wanted him to tune me and I don't go back on my word so I'm sticking with CC, Your write up just further validated my decision on going with CC. I would enjoy and be happy with with a tune from either one of them.
I enjoyed ur write up a lot god honest no bullshit just straight facts ! I spoke to CC months ago and wanted him to tune me and I don't go back on my word so I'm sticking with CC, Your write up just further validated my decision on going with CC. I would enjoy and be happy with with a tune from either one of them.
06-21-2012, 01:38 PM
#96
Senior Member
Ah so this is where it is...
Yes I've had several tunes... I'm a very conflicted person in general, so if you know me personally it's hard for me to be satisfied with any decision I make lol. From cars to tablet pc, to TVs to anything. I always struggle to be happy. My story goes ZZP Canned, Trifecta, CCSS3, Trifecta, CCSS3, Term. I'll explain this later.
While I'm here I might as well review all the tunes I've had.
It's gonna be a long one, but keep in mind I like them all and they all had their pros and cons. I respect all the tuners I've had and I don't want this to be he's better than him or so on. If you guys want I'll get my term and ccss3 tune dyno'd but I'll mention in the reviews later, why I don't feel there's a need.
Both Term and CCSS3 are helping me understand tuning better. They both have their methods and both are incredible at what they do. In my honest opinion, you'd be happy with either. I considered M-Dub, but I don't trust his tunes, that said it's just his reputation that precedes him, I've never personally experienced his tunes and will never. There's a lot of 5280cobalt members running around with his tunes and most seem happy. Some are having issues with their car, but no idea if it's tuning related or not.
Okay now I wanna mention a little about me and why I "feel" (I don't know) I'm different than most Cobalt owners out there. I feel most cobalt owners want the most power out of their cars and will do anything to get it. I'm not this way and maybe it's because I don't have a high knowledge of cars. So I like to feel "comfortable" with the power I'm making. Even if it's not up to standard. I could be the slowest K04+ out there, but that's fine with me as long as I feel good. Like I said, I want to feel comfortable with what I'm making. Why not get a GMS1 and call it a day, well I don't feel comfortable with GMS1 with aftermarket parts. Why not stick with Trifecta then, I'll get to that later.
My Geolocation is Colorado and I live west of Denver closer to the mountains in a little town called wheat ridge. It's altitude is higher than Denvers 5,280ft. A lot of cars up here with NA motors run a lot slower than they would at sea level.
This is the first car I've owned with more than 200hp (well I had a stock SS/SC for about 6 months to a year). So yes I'm a rookie and an idiot. I'm not denying that one bit. I have very little experience with anything car related this is Fact and no lie. But I'm learning and I don't plan on getting it over night. My car history is a 1994 Acura LSVTEC and yes I paid shops to do everything on that car. Basic bolt ons and added VTEC. I probably made 200 at the crank, but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't. Everything before that were POS's like my 1985 Subaru Wagon. So before my FI cars, the fastest car I've owned was the integra and I never did a single thing to it myself.
Okay lets get started.
ZZP Canned
ZZP Canned tune had the biggest "OMFG" factor, on stock turbo. That's because I went from stock tune to HP tuned. Little did I know it was the weakest and probably most unsafe of them all (just a theory about the safeness). I can't imagine if I went with Trifecta, CCSS3 or Term straight from stock. I think I'd probably crash into a wall, probably too much power for me to handle. Who knows, but I got it dyno'd and I made 262whp and 371wtq, yes 371... The weird thing was my boost would drop very fast. I'd go from 22psi down to 16psi in a matter of seconds before redline. I assumed this was ZZPs method of being safe, but later people were saying it's because ZZP doesn't know how to tune in high altitudes.
It was a fun tune, and after I added stuff I made it to 290whp and 373wtq.
I started hearing rumors of canned tunes being bad for our cars. Datalogging is critical and I started to feel unsafe. Whether or not this is true for ZZPs canned tune, I have no idea to this day, but I quickly mustered up some cash and bought Trifecta.
Pros; Easy install, cheap, no datalogging, power gains over stock
Cons; no datalogging, power gains over stock, and possibly unsafe.
Trifecta Round 1
Trifecta tuned me to 23psi, took like 2 months to get me dialed in and this is where my hatred of datalogging began. I hate speeding and feeling worried about cops, but after all was said and done I was pretty happy. Except I didn't know how to control wheel spin and my 1/4 mile times were pretty bad.
I got this dyno'd and I didn't add a single part since ZZP Canned and I went up 10whp and down 10wtq making me 300whp and 367wtq.
I added a few more parts and I ended up 310whp 377tq. Cool enough if you ask me.
I was pretty happy until I ended up hearing all this HPT is 100x better and safer than Trifecta if you have the right tuner. Once again, I started to doubt my safety and started researching it. There was enough Trifecta users complaining and enough HPT guys providing evidence that I decided to get HPT.
Pros; Conservative, good power, friendly customer service
Cons; Long time to respond to email. Datalogging took ages.
CCSS3 Round 1
I don't remember if I contacted James or if he contacted me with one of my replies to a thread concerned about Trifecta. He offered to tune me and not charge me up front. I jumped on it and found a cheap HPT from someone locally.
We went ahead and started tuning. Log after log and I was getting frustrated with all the logging, I think I was on my 25th log and It started getting to me. I was getting knock and he couldn't figure out why and wanted me to do stuff to my car that Trifecta didn't. So I started getting annoyed and I started thinking he didn't know how to tune. I was getting uncomfortable with my car and a lot of that was due to me not knowing what was happening. At this point, I still paid people to work on my car. I didn't own a single tool. I had a dyno scheduled. James warned me that I wasn't done with logging, but I was fed up and didn't heed his warning.
Got dyno'd and and I was at like 305whp and 425wtq. Crazy amounts of go power on stock turbo, but I was getting knock and the guys dyno'ing my car thought it was unsafe and told me all sorts of things that scared me (later I discovered they don't understand LNFs like the tuners here do). So I fired CCSS3 and went back to Trifecta. Not listening to him and heeding his warnings about changing plugs, finishing logging etc. I blamed him and that was that. It's always easier to blame someone else than accept the fact you screwed things right. CCSS3 and I had no hard feelings for each other, we just didn't agree and kept it mature and civil. He continued to help me even after I left him, a pretty stand up guy huh? I don't know if I'd be that kind to someone that basically insulted my skills and legitimately meant it at the time lol.
Pros; More power, great customer service, patients for the stupid customers i.e. me, readily available
Cons; a lot of logging, fans on all the time, and second gear was all or nothing so made DD difficult, spelling and grammar
Trifecta Round 2
Man did this feel slow! After I went back to Trifecta my car felt way slower than HPT, but I was content. It was safe as far as I can tell. I bought some AeroForce Gauges and then that's when my fear for Trifecta continued again. I was getting LTFTs in the +9 and as low as -11 with my day to day. I asked Vince about this and he said I'll never have perfect LTFTs and when I was WOT I'd get up to +15 and stuff.
I sent him logs and asked him for 24psi instead of 23. He gave it to me and I logged for awhile.
Then I upgraded my turbo to the K04+ (another story but I received a broken one from a member on here) After I received a actual working unit I started noticing things i didn't like. Boost bounce, surge, etc with my slightly bigger turbo. Vince said it's either bounce or lower the boost to 20psi. I didn't like that's the options he gave me. I also didn't like my LTFTs and I didn't like the response times I was getting. So I wrote a thread about it and CCSS3 helped. I mentioned it to Vince and the problem went away and I was able to have 25psi, no boost bounce and I was happy enough. I sent him a log and literally a month later I get a revision. I couldn't handle it any more and I decided to go back to HPT.
Pros; 347whp 397wtq on 91 octane
Cons; Surge/flutter, Boost Bounce, response time, telling me things are normal.
CCSS3 round 2
So I contacted CCSS3 again and asked him to tune my K04+. He set down some ground rules and we began. He didn't want us to end up like we were before. At this point I was more familiar with my car (far from expert) and had a set of basic tools to work with. I had adjusted my plugs and we logged. However I still hated logging. Log after log, but I kept an open mind and we finally got logged in. He also kept an open mind and helped by speeding up my logging process. I was finally dialed in which was a first for me and CCSS3. I was able to go play. I liked his tune, but I was concerned about my weird AFRs. They would fluctuate and it would cause my boost gauge to bounce in vacuum. It would go up and down, up and down like one or 2 psi in vacuum (ex; -15 to -14 or -13 and back to -15 at idle) This AFR issue would make my RPMs go up and down too. It sounded cool, but I didn't like it. I brought it up to James and he did some stuff and said it's normal for it to do this. I unplugged my Evap Solenoid and the problem went away, but when I bought a new evap the problem was still there. It only happened at idle too. The problem with second gear was gone, no longer all or nothing type of driving. So my daily felt nicer. 25psi to boot
Anyway, I knew nothing last forever and if James ever stopped tuning, I'd be force to find a new tuner or learn myself. I'll never be able to create a tune from nothing, so I figured I'd just use his and modify it as needed. So I asked him to teach me. We had a good 2 hour phone call of him teaching me goodies on HPT. All I really got out of that was I'm in over my head. He's so damn in depth and I learned to respect tuners a lot more. I send him tunes of mine and he critiques them, usually with frowny faces because they are **** poor.
So I figured I'd ask another tuner to help me understand too. I wanted another perspective to get a wide range of tuning knowledge. This lead me to Term. Term helped me out and in my frustration I asked him to just tune me. He agreed lol.
Pros; Good power, stable LTFTs, extremely fast response times
Cons; Lots of Logging, and I mean a lot of it. his tune seems limited to certain areas and if I venture outside of my logging area the trims go off.
Terminator Tune
I got Terms base file and was surprised how well it felt for a DD tune. Terms tune was very peppy and provided me with no unusual behavior which made me very happy. The car felt like it really liked the tune. Remember comfort is what I go for. So it was powerful and felt like it did when I first bought the car in terms of stability. I wasn't worried with his tune one bit and the best part is I was tuned and dialed in, in like a week and a half two weeks. I had to log about once or twice a day. Term also tuned for various driving conditions and altitudes by averaging out the variables. Colorado can change several hundred feet in a couple miles one direction. Not to mention the density altitude changes with temperature. So it made me feel like my car was versatile for year round driving. Terms tune just feels right. This made me feel like I could go anywhere and not worry about LTFTs getting to high or low. Term tuned me for 24 psi and I am pretty happy with it.
Term is also giving me tips on tuning and it's been really helpful. I have sent him a couple of my tunes as well and I don't think I should ever tune someone else car but mine lol. Not like I was planning to anyway, but it'll be a year or so before I get good enough I'd say.
Pro; Very good feeling tune, Good power, fast response times, good customer service
Con; Car seems to run hotter
Term and CCSS3 Comparison
Okay now that I got that out the way, the difference between Term and CCSS3 is minimal in my opinion. They have different tuning styles for sure, but they're both GREAT tuners and I think it'd be a good idea to go with either one.
As my experience stands now, I prefer the tuning style of Term, but I do feel like CCSS3 has more torque. At least in the two versions of their tunes I have. They both knew I wanted something conservative and they both tuned conservatively and that's how I want it. Their timing and boost levels are about the same. CCSS3 has about 1 degree more in timing and 1 extra pound of boost and it's hardly noticeable, but the power factor does go slightly towards CCSS3 when it comes to my conservative tunes. However the daily drive goes towards Term. CCSS3s tune is more torquey but Terms tune feels just as fast because I ran 13.9 with CCSS3's tune and ran 13.9 with Terms tune, both with 2.2 60ft times.
Terms tune doesn't have fluctuating AFRs like CCSS3s tune does and Terms tune also has a very smooth 1st to second gear transition. CCSS3's tune felt like second is the gear with the most power. Both 3rd gears felt similar in power, with me giving a edge to CCSS3.
I feel like they're both similar in performance and I feel like it'd be a waste of money to dyno them. I honestly feel like with my conservative tunes they'd end up very similar to what I got with Trifecta. Now if I wanted something aggressive I'm sure they'd both have different settings in my car and it'd be more entertaining for you guys to see the numbers, but my car isn't a good example to base tuning abilities on. They're both holding back because of my desires as a owner. I'm sure they'd both throw E85 in there and have an all out match using my car as a benchmark achieving extremely high numbers that'll just boggle my mind and make me feel worried. I for one won't have it on my car and Colorado isn't the most tuner friendly area, so someone else perhaps eastern coast will have to compare their more aggressive tunes. Both tuners expressed how thin the air is up here and both I think would prefer not to tune cars up here lol. Just a guess.
In the end, I think both are great people morally, ethically, technically and if you like one there's a good chance you'll like the other.
I think both guys are great and hopefully this doesn't get taken the wrong way because that's the last thing I want lol.
***Update June 20th 2012***
Term gave me more boost a couple days ago, not sure exactly what else he changed, but it's more torque-y now too. He had me uber conservative and just tuned it up a little I guess but still keeping it conservative. My original plan was to go to the track today and see what the change did for me, but I didn't wanna pay $30 today when I have $0 in my checking account. I didn't wanna use a credit card or dip into savings as much as I wanted to.
Anyway the change that Term gave me definitely gives Term a edge in power now in third, but second gear seems harder to tell, could go either way. I'm still at the same timing as before which is approximately one degree less than CCSS3s, but the boost levels are the same at 25psi. The tests were at 60mph 3rd gear and flooring it and a rolling start through 1st with an unknown starting WOT speed in second gear. They'd both go to 25-26psi, but sometimes it'd be at 24 for either one and redlining near 20psi. I did the test in 2 different days so not sure how you guys wanna take that. I know this isn't exactly accurate or scientific, but it's all I have at the moment. Well hope that helps.
Yes I've had several tunes... I'm a very conflicted person in general, so if you know me personally it's hard for me to be satisfied with any decision I make lol. From cars to tablet pc, to TVs to anything. I always struggle to be happy. My story goes ZZP Canned, Trifecta, CCSS3, Trifecta, CCSS3, Term. I'll explain this later.
While I'm here I might as well review all the tunes I've had.
It's gonna be a long one, but keep in mind I like them all and they all had their pros and cons. I respect all the tuners I've had and I don't want this to be he's better than him or so on. If you guys want I'll get my term and ccss3 tune dyno'd but I'll mention in the reviews later, why I don't feel there's a need.
Both Term and CCSS3 are helping me understand tuning better. They both have their methods and both are incredible at what they do. In my honest opinion, you'd be happy with either. I considered M-Dub, but I don't trust his tunes, that said it's just his reputation that precedes him, I've never personally experienced his tunes and will never. There's a lot of 5280cobalt members running around with his tunes and most seem happy. Some are having issues with their car, but no idea if it's tuning related or not.
Okay now I wanna mention a little about me and why I "feel" (I don't know) I'm different than most Cobalt owners out there. I feel most cobalt owners want the most power out of their cars and will do anything to get it. I'm not this way and maybe it's because I don't have a high knowledge of cars. So I like to feel "comfortable" with the power I'm making. Even if it's not up to standard. I could be the slowest K04+ out there, but that's fine with me as long as I feel good. Like I said, I want to feel comfortable with what I'm making. Why not get a GMS1 and call it a day, well I don't feel comfortable with GMS1 with aftermarket parts. Why not stick with Trifecta then, I'll get to that later.
My Geolocation is Colorado and I live west of Denver closer to the mountains in a little town called wheat ridge. It's altitude is higher than Denvers 5,280ft. A lot of cars up here with NA motors run a lot slower than they would at sea level.
This is the first car I've owned with more than 200hp (well I had a stock SS/SC for about 6 months to a year). So yes I'm a rookie and an idiot. I'm not denying that one bit. I have very little experience with anything car related this is Fact and no lie. But I'm learning and I don't plan on getting it over night. My car history is a 1994 Acura LSVTEC and yes I paid shops to do everything on that car. Basic bolt ons and added VTEC. I probably made 200 at the crank, but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't. Everything before that were POS's like my 1985 Subaru Wagon. So before my FI cars, the fastest car I've owned was the integra and I never did a single thing to it myself.
Okay lets get started.
ZZP Canned
ZZP Canned tune had the biggest "OMFG" factor, on stock turbo. That's because I went from stock tune to HP tuned. Little did I know it was the weakest and probably most unsafe of them all (just a theory about the safeness). I can't imagine if I went with Trifecta, CCSS3 or Term straight from stock. I think I'd probably crash into a wall, probably too much power for me to handle. Who knows, but I got it dyno'd and I made 262whp and 371wtq, yes 371... The weird thing was my boost would drop very fast. I'd go from 22psi down to 16psi in a matter of seconds before redline. I assumed this was ZZPs method of being safe, but later people were saying it's because ZZP doesn't know how to tune in high altitudes.
It was a fun tune, and after I added stuff I made it to 290whp and 373wtq.
I started hearing rumors of canned tunes being bad for our cars. Datalogging is critical and I started to feel unsafe. Whether or not this is true for ZZPs canned tune, I have no idea to this day, but I quickly mustered up some cash and bought Trifecta.
Pros; Easy install, cheap, no datalogging, power gains over stock
Cons; no datalogging, power gains over stock, and possibly unsafe.
Trifecta Round 1
Trifecta tuned me to 23psi, took like 2 months to get me dialed in and this is where my hatred of datalogging began. I hate speeding and feeling worried about cops, but after all was said and done I was pretty happy. Except I didn't know how to control wheel spin and my 1/4 mile times were pretty bad.
I got this dyno'd and I didn't add a single part since ZZP Canned and I went up 10whp and down 10wtq making me 300whp and 367wtq.
I added a few more parts and I ended up 310whp 377tq. Cool enough if you ask me.
I was pretty happy until I ended up hearing all this HPT is 100x better and safer than Trifecta if you have the right tuner. Once again, I started to doubt my safety and started researching it. There was enough Trifecta users complaining and enough HPT guys providing evidence that I decided to get HPT.
Pros; Conservative, good power, friendly customer service
Cons; Long time to respond to email. Datalogging took ages.
CCSS3 Round 1
I don't remember if I contacted James or if he contacted me with one of my replies to a thread concerned about Trifecta. He offered to tune me and not charge me up front. I jumped on it and found a cheap HPT from someone locally.
We went ahead and started tuning. Log after log and I was getting frustrated with all the logging, I think I was on my 25th log and It started getting to me. I was getting knock and he couldn't figure out why and wanted me to do stuff to my car that Trifecta didn't. So I started getting annoyed and I started thinking he didn't know how to tune. I was getting uncomfortable with my car and a lot of that was due to me not knowing what was happening. At this point, I still paid people to work on my car. I didn't own a single tool. I had a dyno scheduled. James warned me that I wasn't done with logging, but I was fed up and didn't heed his warning.
Got dyno'd and and I was at like 305whp and 425wtq. Crazy amounts of go power on stock turbo, but I was getting knock and the guys dyno'ing my car thought it was unsafe and told me all sorts of things that scared me (later I discovered they don't understand LNFs like the tuners here do). So I fired CCSS3 and went back to Trifecta. Not listening to him and heeding his warnings about changing plugs, finishing logging etc. I blamed him and that was that. It's always easier to blame someone else than accept the fact you screwed things right. CCSS3 and I had no hard feelings for each other, we just didn't agree and kept it mature and civil. He continued to help me even after I left him, a pretty stand up guy huh? I don't know if I'd be that kind to someone that basically insulted my skills and legitimately meant it at the time lol.
Pros; More power, great customer service, patients for the stupid customers i.e. me, readily available
Cons; a lot of logging, fans on all the time, and second gear was all or nothing so made DD difficult, spelling and grammar
Trifecta Round 2
Man did this feel slow! After I went back to Trifecta my car felt way slower than HPT, but I was content. It was safe as far as I can tell. I bought some AeroForce Gauges and then that's when my fear for Trifecta continued again. I was getting LTFTs in the +9 and as low as -11 with my day to day. I asked Vince about this and he said I'll never have perfect LTFTs and when I was WOT I'd get up to +15 and stuff.
I sent him logs and asked him for 24psi instead of 23. He gave it to me and I logged for awhile.
Then I upgraded my turbo to the K04+ (another story but I received a broken one from a member on here) After I received a actual working unit I started noticing things i didn't like. Boost bounce, surge, etc with my slightly bigger turbo. Vince said it's either bounce or lower the boost to 20psi. I didn't like that's the options he gave me. I also didn't like my LTFTs and I didn't like the response times I was getting. So I wrote a thread about it and CCSS3 helped. I mentioned it to Vince and the problem went away and I was able to have 25psi, no boost bounce and I was happy enough. I sent him a log and literally a month later I get a revision. I couldn't handle it any more and I decided to go back to HPT.
Pros; 347whp 397wtq on 91 octane
Cons; Surge/flutter, Boost Bounce, response time, telling me things are normal.
CCSS3 round 2
So I contacted CCSS3 again and asked him to tune my K04+. He set down some ground rules and we began. He didn't want us to end up like we were before. At this point I was more familiar with my car (far from expert) and had a set of basic tools to work with. I had adjusted my plugs and we logged. However I still hated logging. Log after log, but I kept an open mind and we finally got logged in. He also kept an open mind and helped by speeding up my logging process. I was finally dialed in which was a first for me and CCSS3. I was able to go play. I liked his tune, but I was concerned about my weird AFRs. They would fluctuate and it would cause my boost gauge to bounce in vacuum. It would go up and down, up and down like one or 2 psi in vacuum (ex; -15 to -14 or -13 and back to -15 at idle) This AFR issue would make my RPMs go up and down too. It sounded cool, but I didn't like it. I brought it up to James and he did some stuff and said it's normal for it to do this. I unplugged my Evap Solenoid and the problem went away, but when I bought a new evap the problem was still there. It only happened at idle too. The problem with second gear was gone, no longer all or nothing type of driving. So my daily felt nicer. 25psi to boot
Anyway, I knew nothing last forever and if James ever stopped tuning, I'd be force to find a new tuner or learn myself. I'll never be able to create a tune from nothing, so I figured I'd just use his and modify it as needed. So I asked him to teach me. We had a good 2 hour phone call of him teaching me goodies on HPT. All I really got out of that was I'm in over my head. He's so damn in depth and I learned to respect tuners a lot more. I send him tunes of mine and he critiques them, usually with frowny faces because they are **** poor.
So I figured I'd ask another tuner to help me understand too. I wanted another perspective to get a wide range of tuning knowledge. This lead me to Term. Term helped me out and in my frustration I asked him to just tune me. He agreed lol.
Pros; Good power, stable LTFTs, extremely fast response times
Cons; Lots of Logging, and I mean a lot of it. his tune seems limited to certain areas and if I venture outside of my logging area the trims go off.
Terminator Tune
I got Terms base file and was surprised how well it felt for a DD tune. Terms tune was very peppy and provided me with no unusual behavior which made me very happy. The car felt like it really liked the tune. Remember comfort is what I go for. So it was powerful and felt like it did when I first bought the car in terms of stability. I wasn't worried with his tune one bit and the best part is I was tuned and dialed in, in like a week and a half two weeks. I had to log about once or twice a day. Term also tuned for various driving conditions and altitudes by averaging out the variables. Colorado can change several hundred feet in a couple miles one direction. Not to mention the density altitude changes with temperature. So it made me feel like my car was versatile for year round driving. Terms tune just feels right. This made me feel like I could go anywhere and not worry about LTFTs getting to high or low. Term tuned me for 24 psi and I am pretty happy with it.
Term is also giving me tips on tuning and it's been really helpful. I have sent him a couple of my tunes as well and I don't think I should ever tune someone else car but mine lol. Not like I was planning to anyway, but it'll be a year or so before I get good enough I'd say.
Pro; Very good feeling tune, Good power, fast response times, good customer service
Con; Car seems to run hotter
Term and CCSS3 Comparison
Okay now that I got that out the way, the difference between Term and CCSS3 is minimal in my opinion. They have different tuning styles for sure, but they're both GREAT tuners and I think it'd be a good idea to go with either one.
As my experience stands now, I prefer the tuning style of Term, but I do feel like CCSS3 has more torque. At least in the two versions of their tunes I have. They both knew I wanted something conservative and they both tuned conservatively and that's how I want it. Their timing and boost levels are about the same. CCSS3 has about 1 degree more in timing and 1 extra pound of boost and it's hardly noticeable, but the power factor does go slightly towards CCSS3 when it comes to my conservative tunes. However the daily drive goes towards Term. CCSS3s tune is more torquey but Terms tune feels just as fast because I ran 13.9 with CCSS3's tune and ran 13.9 with Terms tune, both with 2.2 60ft times.
Terms tune doesn't have fluctuating AFRs like CCSS3s tune does and Terms tune also has a very smooth 1st to second gear transition. CCSS3's tune felt like second is the gear with the most power. Both 3rd gears felt similar in power, with me giving a edge to CCSS3.
I feel like they're both similar in performance and I feel like it'd be a waste of money to dyno them. I honestly feel like with my conservative tunes they'd end up very similar to what I got with Trifecta. Now if I wanted something aggressive I'm sure they'd both have different settings in my car and it'd be more entertaining for you guys to see the numbers, but my car isn't a good example to base tuning abilities on. They're both holding back because of my desires as a owner. I'm sure they'd both throw E85 in there and have an all out match using my car as a benchmark achieving extremely high numbers that'll just boggle my mind and make me feel worried. I for one won't have it on my car and Colorado isn't the most tuner friendly area, so someone else perhaps eastern coast will have to compare their more aggressive tunes. Both tuners expressed how thin the air is up here and both I think would prefer not to tune cars up here lol. Just a guess.
In the end, I think both are great people morally, ethically, technically and if you like one there's a good chance you'll like the other.
I think both guys are great and hopefully this doesn't get taken the wrong way because that's the last thing I want lol.
***Update June 20th 2012***
Term gave me more boost a couple days ago, not sure exactly what else he changed, but it's more torque-y now too. He had me uber conservative and just tuned it up a little I guess but still keeping it conservative. My original plan was to go to the track today and see what the change did for me, but I didn't wanna pay $30 today when I have $0 in my checking account. I didn't wanna use a credit card or dip into savings as much as I wanted to.
Anyway the change that Term gave me definitely gives Term a edge in power now in third, but second gear seems harder to tell, could go either way. I'm still at the same timing as before which is approximately one degree less than CCSS3s, but the boost levels are the same at 25psi. The tests were at 60mph 3rd gear and flooring it and a rolling start through 1st with an unknown starting WOT speed in second gear. They'd both go to 25-26psi, but sometimes it'd be at 24 for either one and redlining near 20psi. I did the test in 2 different days so not sure how you guys wanna take that. I know this isn't exactly accurate or scientific, but it's all I have at the moment. Well hope that helps.
06-21-2012, 02:40 PM
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06-21-2012, 03:14 PM
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Bandimere Speedway is also on the side of a mountain, this is why a lot of cars especially N/A V8s suck up here. When my car was stock, I beat a new Camaro SS, and a GTO that were modded. My car was plain jane off the lot.
Last edited by vahdyx; 06-21-2012 at 03:27 PM.