ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

Looking to see how much a FBO GMS1 car makes. Not looking to make big power or push limits. I just want to be able to add parts and such without retuning and logging etc etc. Looking to do a catted DP, charge pipes, ic, k&n intake. Any idea how much this should actually push? Dyno numbers are good. I know with stock everything about 250-260 is what you get. Like I said it's just to be able to add and remove parts as necessary and not need retunes. I also don't want to push limits on a 100k mile unknown history motor. Safer the better.

slapbetcommissioner

iTrader: (3)

What does FBO mean?

A bone stock GMS1 car will make about 260-270whp 290-300wtq

With a high flow down pipe and either the zzp intake pipe and k&n filter or K&N SRI.

They make between 280-290whp 290-310wtq


All that being said you could get a zzp canned tune with gms1 sensors and make close to 300whp with relative safety and save $$

63 Nova SS

iTrader: (3)

The gms1 tune won't account for anything- cai, downpipe etc. it would be a waste to really add anything as gms limits the engine. Custom tune is better. Gms1 is ok but adding boltons won't get you anything.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

Gms1 gets rid of the learn down feature so it should allow for small gains by adding things.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

Full bolt on. Downpipe intake exhaust charge pipes and intercooler. Those numbers are what I want. I don't need custom or zzp. It's got too many unknowns to risk it. Last thing I want is a custom tune and my clutch to start slipping. Playing it super safe. Fast reliable cheap pick two. You can see the two I picked

CudaJoe

iTrader: (1)

Just to give you some information.

Stock clutch is rated for 320 ft-lbs.


I have a 2009 cobalt ss with 95,000+ miles. Car has K&N intake, ZZP upper charge pipe, TR8 intercooler, High flow catted Downpipe, Turboxs cat back exhaust, Forge diverter valve.

The car was tuned on HPtuners at 46,000 miles with a 20 psi tune. The dyno read 297 whp and 327 trq at the time.

The car was retuned a few thousand miles later for 24 psi tune with Hptuners. It has been tuned for about 50k miles at 24 psi with no issues. I am still on the original factory clutch with no sign of slipping.

I have two ECMs as I had a spare ECM that recieved the 20 psi and 24psi tune while I left the original ECM in my car factory "tune".

I can interchange for the factory "tune" ECM and the HPtuned ECM with little change to the AFR and fuel trims. The worst the fuel trims got this winter on the factory tune was 7-8+ LTFT.

I usually put the factory tune on for winter months with my all season tires and use the 24 psi tune for the spring and summer with a Summer tire. been doing this for the past 5-6 years. No CELs, no issues.


Take this info with a grain of salt, not all engines are exactly the same and react the same.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

That last part is crucial. Not all engines act the same or react the same. I bought the car at 96000 miles. PO didn't know if the car was tuned or anything about it really. Didn't know about the clutch being replaced or not. There was an intake on it. The TB was pretty dirty, I should probably clean the intake valves, and get a Powell separator, but I don't want to start dumping money to save my ass down the road. Gms1 is safe enough where I can clean the valves on a day off and put a new manifold gasket and it won't affect the tune. My LTFTs are pretty small like .5-1? It has a K&N drop in filter that's all. 260-280 is fine for me. I care more about the torque anyway. 280-310 is also a good number.

T-Man

iTrader: (3)

No, it doesn't. It raises the targeted airflow/torque ceiling somewhat but is still limited. Especially over specific RPM points.

Good luck to you in your quest.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

Adding parts should still allow some gains though, no? If I go custom tune I risk staying stock. Which is what everyone who's car keeps breaking keeps saying. I can't have it break every other day. Less power more handling focused is how I want to go. I don't want to put all my money into a custom tune and fbo when I have suspension parts in my house waiting for the salt to wash away.

Ultimate goal is GMS1, K&N SRI, ZZP charge pipes, ZZP IC, YYZs with FE5 front and Koni rear (have these), new control arms with Powell spherical (have these too). Then fix the small issues it has for the age, and TOTD if I can make it.

heeter_33

Why not just get GMS1 and nothing else? There is really no point in adding a downpipe or intake if you don't tune for them. You'd be effectively spending money for nothing.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

It would be more like spending little by little once every couple months. That's my point, with a custom tune I'd need to get retuned every time I change something. With gms1 I can add all the things and it'll still be fine.

Something about gms1 has me on the purist approach. Like gms1 is the performance package GM had so that's how they wanted their performance package to be. I'm okay with that. Keeping it as close to stock as possible and slaying what I can is good enough for me.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

If you want the ultimate reliability don't even do GMS1, when they say stay stock, they mean stock off the lot stock.

You may see some gains adding those parts with GMS1, but as T-Man points out it is severely limited in areas, going with a quality tuner that gives **** will net you a better tune than GMS1 with the mods you're adding. But if you get a copy paste tuner then you'll likely have a boost spike and all kinds of other **** issues.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

You are contradicting yourself in this post.

Also you don't need a tune change from charge pipes, intercooler, or downpipe. Will it extract a few extra hp if you do tune for an intercooler and downpipe, sure, but as you've pointed out you don't want all out power. So no need for a retune at each part addition, you certainly should tune for the K&N or leave the stock box if going with GMS1.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

I thought it was the other way. K&N sri with gms1 is fine because it can compensate for it. While not tuning for a downpipe I thought is ridiculous because turbo car; downpipe tune HP+++

CudaJoe

iTrader: (1)

GMS1 does not compensate for an aftermarket intake. You will see an AFR skew. Now again I mentioned running my car on the stock tune with a K&N intake and not having any issues. So it may or may not show as bad of a skew to cause a CEL.

My car runs fine with no tune and all the bolt ons. Been doing it for years in the winter months (November - beginning of April, depending on temperatures).

Which means you could put all your bolt ons on over time and then tune when your ready. Make the Intake the last bolt on item which would be the one that most likely would cause the issues.


Honestly I dont care, GMS1 is a fine tune, been thinking about updating my "factory ECM" with one but then Id have to retune the HPtuned ECM since new sensors and what not. I dont know if Backyard Turbo is still tuning cobalts or not either.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

Youre still on stock map sensors?? And BYT is local so he'd be my first stop! He has the HPT and dyno access so I could get dyno tuned there.

Probably still going to GMS1 and stay stock till I have the funds to go all out. I just want a little more boosta.

CudaJoe

iTrader: (1)

Yes I am on the stock 2.5 bar MAP sensors. Not the GMS1 sensors. (BYT) Nick tuned my car. I know he moved recently and his website says their not doing any tuning till Spring of 2017 to sort personal things out.

His tunes are solid and the car will move out quick. If you were to get tuned by him, id make sure to tell him you dont want any boost spikes and would like boost/ torque limited 1st gear to keep the car daily driveable.

My first 20 psi tune was a huge boost spike and 1st to 2nd gear was undriveable. Tire spin city as well as very jerky. He retuned me to 24 psi for another issue tho and I happened to ask him to clean that part of the tune up.

The first tune was rushed as it was a dyno day event. He basically tossed on a base tune and did not have enough time to clean it up. A drive to South Carolina revealed a slow Fuel trim creep which eventually threw a code. re-verified that on the drive back from South Carolina as well. He updated the tune, no charge on his own time. Good guy, and a good tuner.



The difference between a custom tune using HPtuners and GMS1 is that GMS1 feels stock still but more agressive. Custom HPtune feels like a whole new car.

royce777

iTrader: (29)

why not just do all the BOs then get tuned after?

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

As in run stock tune with bo's and get tuned after? Not sure. Fuel trims and such. Would be over the span of a few months to get the funds for bos.

Snail_SS

iTrader: (3)

Then do the intake right before you have the funds for the tune

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

He's opening on Friday. Dyno tunes only. That's what I want ultimately. Stock but more aggressive. I also might want to throw out there that it's a sedan so it won't be a racecar 😂

royce777

iTrader: (29)

Yes.


I don't think your trims would be that bad. Youll still be catted so that will help. There is plenty of people who run BOs and stock tune and are fine.

Snail_SS

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I ran bos with stock tune for like 2 or 3 months before I got tuned, it's not the longest time but the car was fine and I'm sure I could of gone longer without tuning, but it made a great difference once tuned, I've been tuned since 70k if I remember correctly I'm at 104k with 2 turbo swaps now lol

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

Was only thinking of doing BOs with GMS1 for added reliability. GM's tunes sometimes spike above/below and BO's were going to be to make sure the plastic doesn't explode. Maybe a tune down the road.

ThePanduuh

iTrader: (3)

Unsure of the motor condition. Been doing small things like cleaning the TB and MAF and running seafoam to make sure it's good inside. Did a Compression Test and was about 150-160 so that's also another factor. It's not a new motor. It's all in the quality of the motor and the tune.