Originally Posted by BRHumbert

I just purchased the ZZP LNF PCM as well as a ZZP Spun Metal Catted Downpipe. I plan to do Stock Dyno Runs and then Dyno Runs with the ZZP PCM, ZZP Downpipe, and a K&N Drop In. I will comment on all issues once I have a feel for everything.

Originally Posted by Terminator2

So true.

Originally Posted by tom.g

Please do, the more info we get in this thread the better.

Originally Posted by BRHumbert

I just installed my ZZP Spun Metal Catted Downpipe and ZZP LNF PCM. My only other Mods are a K&N Drop-In. All I have to say is HOLY ****!!! The car has tremendous pull now yet the driveability seems to be better than stock. I have an Aeroforce Interceptor and I kept an eye on Wideband o2, Knock, Ignition Advance, and others to compare to stock. All parameters seem to be very similar to stock, but the power difference is night and day. My STFT and LTFT seem to be more stable than they were with the stock tune too. I cant comment on fuel mileage yet because I have been enjoying the extra power a little to much. I have no experience with GMS1 but I would say that the ZZP LNF PCM is probablly a better alternative. I now have the ZZP PCM and my factory PCM for warranty purposes. I will be hitting a Dyno as soon as my local place becomes available again. If anyone has any specific questions feel free to ask. ZZP FTMFW!!!

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS1

Term, have you had a chance to mess with the new map/tmap sensors in HPTuner yet?

Originally Posted by Terminator2

I rewrote the entire ECM and changed to the stage 1 OS and sensors. Stock Stage 1 tune file with my MAF tables and COT removed. I want to see how quick the stock stage 1 tune is compared to my regular 22 psi tune in my car. I normally run 4.5-4.6 seconds from 60-100 mph at 22 psi with my current mods. I am thinking that it is going to run approx 6.5-7.0 seconds from 60-100. Stock tune runs ~8.8-9.5 seconds normally from 60-100. I am hoping that once I mod the tune a ton I will be able to run an honest 4 seconds flat from 60-100.

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS1

Nice.. have you messed with the boost tables yet? I know you said you still won't be able to log over 255kpa but is there a way around this with or without the 3bar map?

Originally Posted by buellfooll

So the bottom line on the LNF is that common tuning practices don't apply to the LNF the same as other popular competitors. Yes? No?

I read, or maybe heard, that Vince at Trifecta can tune around the stock 2 bar sensors and get the same results as with the 3 bar sensors eliminating the need for them.

This is one of, if not THE, best threads I've seen on CSS.net thus far. Thanks for some really good, accurate and informative info. Readers should now be able to make more informed decisions on mods and tuning. Thanks Terminator2! Really!

Originally Posted by tom.g

Term correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding if you won't be exceeding 22-23PSi the stock 2 Bar sensors will work fairly well. Benefits from the 3-bar sensors are only seen when going with higher presure?

Originally Posted by Terminator2

Yes the limit of the 2.5 bar sensors is 22.5 psi or 255 kPa. The Stage 1 OS allows for more control though of the desired boost levels so you can tune it to hold 22-23 psi a little longer up top if you want. The regular stage 1 tune is designed to drop off a lot up top but that can be very easily fixed.

Originally Posted by Terminator2

Vince can tune around the stock 2 bar sensors by tricking the ECM into thinking it is seeing only 238 kPa (20psi) when it can be seeing up to 300 kPa (30 psi). That is what the infiniboost tune does. In my honest opinion though it is a lot better to tune around the expanded 3 bar OS and 3 bar sensors that the stage 1 kit offers. The sensors see and accurately measure up to 30 psi without having to trick the ecm or the wastegate by running a pill or other MBC or EBC. What kind of pressure levels are you seeing on your car now after he tuned it?

Originally Posted by buellfooll

Boost is spiking then settling in around 22 - 23#. But compared to stock, then the Turbo Upgrade and now Trifecta I'm happy. For the time being. I haven't done any data logging to get the thing fine tuned yet. The cable will be my next toy. But to be truthful, until I can put some REAL sticky tires under it more power would only be good for pounding my chest and hollering "Me Tarzan, You Jane". The Direzza Star Specs aren't geetting the job done even with a UTQG rating of 200. Now if somebody could design a program to sense wheel spin and adjust power output to a level just in that sweet spot between acceleration and spinning the tires they could be a rich man. Or woman!

And I'm open to wheel/tire suggestions.

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks View Post
Bill you beat me to it. That thing has been detonating like a MO!!!!!!!!!. Better find out why or your new pistons won't last long. I'll be suprised if the ring lands on the stockers arent broken when you take them out. Adding timing advance below 2000 breaks them to.

The scoring is caused by either a broken second land, piston crown overheating from preignition causing it to overexpand and drag the cylinder wall on the exhaust side or ring end butt on the top ring from the same effect.

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks View Post
Doesn't matter how hard its driven. At 24 PSI the turbo is running at 90 to 100% rated impeller speed. Anything beyond that just invites compressor surge and soaring charge air temps. Just slapping one of these go for broke cals into an LNF is just creating a grenade. I don't know Vince but he's doing his customers a great disservice because I know he knows that much boost is a ticking timebomb in an LNF with stock piston ring end gaps and a stock intercooler. Not to mention setting the turbo up for an untimely failure.

AF ratio being 11 or 12 ain't gonna fix charge air temps that are probably 250 to 300 degrees or ring end gaps that are to tight for that level of crown temp.

Think about this for a minute. ZZP is making what 425/450 on 24 lbs from a proper setup. Whats the difference why won't a stocker make that. AIRFLOW! Their working the head. SO what do you think 30 pounds in a stock head is doing. Thats right backing up in the ports. And what happens when the air backs up? It gets hotter than a MO!

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks View Post
Sorry guys. I just get a little frusturated when I see folks thrash a perfectly good motor when it could have been avoided. That said if they did it out of their own HP greed and decided to be lazy thats their own fault. If they did it because somone sold them on something that was pie in the sky shame on them. If vince is discouraging people from this then good on him.

Let me say this one time again. Anything over 24/25 LBS on the stock turbo and intercooler will grenade the motor. Its not a matter of if its when.

If you want to go more than that then you need to step up. Add a bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, and adjust the piston clearances and ring gaps.

Originally Posted by tom.g

What You Should Know Before Getting a Tune
written by tom.g
...The GM Turbo Upgrade Kit (GMS1) tune is the only tune which comes with upgraded MAF Sensors (3 Bar vs 2 Bar)...

Originally Posted by Wangspeed

This is probably the most appropriate place for it, but feel free to edit, or I can remove if Term feels it's inappropriate. Gettinausernamesucks is a GM engineer:



It should be noted that I recall a previous post from him mentioning that no additional timing should be added under 2500 RPM.