sponge14

All of this is pointless until we are given the results for the topic of this thread. I don't know why it's being held as such a closely guarded secret... Okay so someone wants to make a business deal on who is going to sell these, whatever.... You can still release the results so people know if they should even be interested in this anymore.

09BlueBaltSS

look at that a/f lol

Boosted4

This

Ch1ck3n

iTrader: (5)

This batmofailure thing has me a bit concerned about this wheel.. I've been reading around and have found a couple pictures that look like very similar failures as well as a lot of talk about failing due to structural imperfections.

These wheels have been out for 6 months now and there doesn't really seem to be any solid data on it. Dyno graphs here and there but nothing conclusive. Big trucks and supra's making big numbers on big turbos with no apples to apples comparisons, just a lot of people saying "It's way better", with nothing to back it up.

I'm not trying to bash or start another argument, but unless dyno results are significant and presented in a fashion where the gains are clearly noted (which I'm sure there will be some sort, just based on the fact it's a billet wheel) and shown, I'm just not sold like I was a couple of days ago..

HHRSSouth

Same thing I was pointing out earlier. Glad I'm not the only one who is sick of it.

Matt M

I don't know what you guys are looking for. Bullseye is not in this thread. If they decide to release these, then I'm sure they will provide numbers. If they decide not to, or if they change something, then you probably won't see results.

Frogstofall

iTrader: (1)

What we're looking for are the F'n results we thought we were getting a MONTH ago. This is ridiculous...

40rty

A huge thread and this is what you guys come up with? Like i said earlier, results seem to be held back for some odd reason. Let me just ask this, did the results yield similar gains to what a BNR GT2871r will give? Exsoccerplayer stated that he had even the highest stock turbo #'s beat. What about ZZP stock turbo numbers, did it beat those?

Funny how exsoccerplayer started in charge, he wrote that zzp and BEP were hashing things out "business wise" and now zzp is saying that " if bep decides to release these". Im getting an abandon ship attitude with all this pussie fitting holding back results. I can only speculate as a direct result of all this bs as to a good reason with holding back the results. Even if the wheels didnt make what was promised we all could see the data and learn from it, knowledge is power.

strazdice

iTrader: (1)

Matt owns his own business n dyno and has a partnership with a turbo co. none of us do, nuff said, results would be nice ethier way so we kno what could or couldn't have been, so therefore if results were good maybe we can try another company if bep doesn't do it or if its worth doin at all

BLAZIN07SS

iTrader: (7)

dude, shut the **** up already. zzp solely did the testing. it's up to BEP to say to release the results. it's their business deal and their money being spent.

Matt M

Ok, I understand your frustration, but you are not being realistic. First, ZZP didn't have anything to do with this project. When a couple testers fell through, we were asked to dyno test this wheel, which we did. If you understand how that sort of thing works in the marketplace, the place that performs 3rd party testing does not go off spreading the information around. They simply provide the results to the vendor and that is the end of it. In most cases, nobody would know who even did the testing. In this case, someone apparently knew that it was sent here and started talking about it. That doesn't change the fact that I am not going to release numbers unless I am told to do so.

Second, you asked if it provides results similar to a 2871 turbo swap? Seriously? Swapping this wheel doesn't change the size of your turbo. It makes the compressor wheel a slightly different shape with raised tips on the leading edges. It is not a turbo swap. What you asked is like saying, "Does putting this K&N intake on my 5.3 truck engine make the same gains as putting in a 6.2 engine?" Be realistic. This is a small gain type of mod.

rallycobalt06

Matt M

they're asking about a comparison to the BNR2871 (not an actual GT2871R) which is a stock K04 with a 2871 compressor housing/wheel bolted to it. i believe on 93 it does 375whp and on E85 roughly 400whp (actual owners of the BNR2871 can confirm these numbers).

my question to you...... since ZZP is a vendor of Bullseye turbos, is this Batmowheel something ZZP is considering adding to their product line?

Matt M

Yes, I am familiar with the 2871. The BNR 2871 for the LNF has a different exhaust wheel and a larger compressor wheel and compressor cover than the K04. It is for the most part a different turbo. Swapping in just a compressor wheel that is the same size is not going to make the same gains. It's physics, not magic.

HHRSSouth

I for one never expected a wheel upgrade to be equal to or better then a turbo upgrade.

My question, does the Batmowheel produce similar results as the K04+ upgrade (20 whp upgrade basically)?

IMO, this is a more fair comparison, but then difference in pricing is tremendous.
$400 (Batmowheel) vs. $1000.00 plus (K04+).

So in your opinion Matt is the Batmowheel equivelant to a K04+ upgrade, slightly better or worse?

I think if you answered these questions, it would tell everyone what exactly we are looking at in terms of an upgrade without giving away exact numbers.

rallycobalt06

let me just bold that so the kids can see it.

cubaniche

iTrader: (1)

You guys arent going to get ZZP to offer up any more info than what they have already vaguely shared. Im sure they have signed some sort of non-disclosure agreement. They are just the TESTERS. Nothing more for right now. You cant expect them to divulge info on a product from another company that isnt even on the market yet. This is all part of the R&D. you guys should be happy that they even decided to share the step by step process. Look how long it took K&N to make an intake for the LNF...

Matt has already stated a page or two back that they were surprised with the results and that it was more thasn they expected to see. Thats about all you can expect to hear during the testing phases guys.

Matt M

lol, I didn't word that very well. It should have said, "swapping in a compressor wheel that is the same size as stock is not going to make the same gains as swapping to a larger exhaust wheel and compressor wheel."

Anyhow, Dave from Bullseye just emailed me and said it was ok to discuss the results.

We started with a stock K04 and then swapped to a K04 with the Batmowheel swapped in. We ran at multiple boost levels, but the only place we saw gains was on the max-effort pulls. In other words, there was no gain running 16psi on both turbos, or at least not enough to claim a gain since HP gain vary 2-3 from one pull to the next without changing anything. When we pushed the turbos as hard as we could(which is typical for a K04 build) we saw an increase in boost with the Batmowheel. The increase was about 1-1.5psi through the whole pull. Peak torque increased from 471 to 479, but this is probably irrelevant because most people do not intentionally push more than 30psi with their K04. Through the middle of the pull, the batwheel was able to make about 1.5psi over the stock wheel and peak power increased from 363 to 379whp. At the very end of the pull, they were separated by about 1psi (17 and 18psi) and the power difference was about 8whp.

In a nutshell, max effort gains were 16whp. Average gains through the power band were around 11-12whp. If you have a conservative tune that doesn't push the turbo, you probably won't notice the difference. This is not a turbo swap. It is a wheel upgrade and the gains are respectable for what it is.

rallycobalt06

thank you Matt M. :

Dart_SI

iTrader: (1)

U able to post a dynos sheet?

umrdyldo

iTrader: (1)

This thread is stinky.

Everyone needs to take a step back and relax.

When the dynos are released they are released.

I know we all want to see it but what can we do besides wait.

Thanks to ZZP for testing. We understand you can't release them.

Dart_SI

iTrader: (1)

They just released the numbers.

Gremlin85

iTrader: (8)

Matt,

If I'm reading that correctly and understanding the results, are you saying that the batmowheel gains only shine when pushing the turbo upwards and to (even over) 30psi? So gains are minimal with say a 24psi tune?

rallycobalt06

that's what i'm reading from his results. not sure how i feel about it now.

batboy

iTrader: (1)

Ritalin version of the Batmowheel results:

aggressive tune = modest increase
conservative tune = not so much
Peak power increase = 16 hp and 8 tq
average gains across the band were 11-12 hp

Frogstofall

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for posting results! Now I can spend my money elsewhere.