GMS1 Cobalt vs Solstice/Sky
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From: Toledo OH
GMS1 Cobalt vs Solstice/Sky
Is this the GMS1 for the Cobalt or for the Solstice/Sky? Maybe I'm wrong again (I usually am) but isnt the Cobalt GMS1 supposed to be rated for 280HP and 320lb.-ft? I know that theyre the same motors.
Anything I find online (Yes I googled first) says that the cobalt only ends up with 280/320 not 290/340. I copied the page from the dealer's website below
Item Name: Power Upgrade Kit
SKU: 19212670
Installed Price : $760.00
Part Only Price : $650.00
* All images are representative of the product. Actual products may vary.
Brand: Chevrolet OEM
Description
Power up your Cobalt SS with this Turbocharger Upgrade Kit. Kit increases performance to 290 HP and up to 340lb.-ft. of torque. Requires dealer installation and calibration. Premium fuel required.
Warranty: Materials, The greater of either the balance of the vehicle's bumper to bumper warranty or 12 months / 12,000 miles., Manufacturer
Will fit vehicles with the following RPOs:
LNF - ENGINE GAS, 4 CYL, 2.0L, DI, ALUM, DOHC, TURBO, GM
This Item Fits:
2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt
Anything I find online (Yes I googled first) says that the cobalt only ends up with 280/320 not 290/340. I copied the page from the dealer's website below
Item Name: Power Upgrade Kit
SKU: 19212670
Installed Price : $760.00
Part Only Price : $650.00
* All images are representative of the product. Actual products may vary.
Brand: Chevrolet OEM
Description
Power up your Cobalt SS with this Turbocharger Upgrade Kit. Kit increases performance to 290 HP and up to 340lb.-ft. of torque. Requires dealer installation and calibration. Premium fuel required.
Warranty: Materials, The greater of either the balance of the vehicle's bumper to bumper warranty or 12 months / 12,000 miles., Manufacturer
Will fit vehicles with the following RPOs:
LNF - ENGINE GAS, 4 CYL, 2.0L, DI, ALUM, DOHC, TURBO, GM
This Item Fits:
2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt
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From: Toledo OH
Yea, I knew it was just the 2 sensors and a reflash. I was just under the impression that the tune cobalts got was a bit less than the Solstice/Sky counterparts. I'm not sure why I would think that, but def did.
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From: Monmouth County NJ
I vaguely remember reading about the slight differences in power/torque with the Cobalt vs Sky/Solstice had something to do with the design of the stock airbox. The Cobalt's airbox arm is solid, while the roadsters' arm allow for some flex in the engine bay when the engine comes to life. Also, you have to consider there is less drivetrain loss in a FF powertrain. Hope this helps. :-)
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From: Toledo OH
Thread Starter
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From: Toledo OH
I vaguely remember reading about the slight differences in power/torque with the Cobalt vs Sky/Solstice had something to do with the design of the stock airbox. The Cobalt's airbox arm is solid, while the roadsters' arm allow for some flex in the engine bay when the engine comes to life. Also, you have to consider there is less drivetrain loss in a FF powertrain. Hope this helps. :-)
Still prolly waiting until this spring tho.
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From: SouthEast
another question would be... what would be the percentage of air intake.. vs. exhaust output that would in theory be the right amount to blend to the GMS1 and not degrade overall performance across the power band.
I think most would say, any increase in air flow on both sides benefits performance, but with turbo's and temperature concerns, ECU adjustments on the fly, A/F ratio's that would possibly adversly effect the burn... etc....
I guess there is still alot that I'm not totally sure about but interested to hear others opinions...and if possible actual output numbers.. or tech folks weighing on this...
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From: Toledo OH
I too was wondering a bit about this. Since the GMS1 upgrade is a pre-programmed burn, I had wondered about what the pro's vs. cons on adding peripheral components would be. since the "learn down" is removed to a degree, I would assume a DP or an intake addon would improve the performance (but to what degree?)... BUT on the other hand, the car could run lean to some degree too?... I kinda wondered, if say it would be more benficial to say leave the stock air box on, and just go with a DP on the bottom end... the concern is without the components being tuned for specifically, does it actually become "worth it" to add on accessories?
another question would be... what would be the percentage of air intake.. vs. exhaust output that would in theory be the right amount to blend to the GMS1 and not degrade overall performance across the power band.
I think most would say, any increase in air flow on both sides benefits performance, but with turbo's and temperature concerns, ECU adjustments on the fly, A/F ratio's that would possibly adversly effect the burn... etc....
I guess there is still alot that I'm not totally sure about but interested to hear others opinions...and if possible actual output numbers.. or tech folks weighing on this...
another question would be... what would be the percentage of air intake.. vs. exhaust output that would in theory be the right amount to blend to the GMS1 and not degrade overall performance across the power band.
I think most would say, any increase in air flow on both sides benefits performance, but with turbo's and temperature concerns, ECU adjustments on the fly, A/F ratio's that would possibly adversly effect the burn... etc....
I guess there is still alot that I'm not totally sure about but interested to hear others opinions...and if possible actual output numbers.. or tech folks weighing on this...
From an article I read awhile ago I'm pretty sure most car manufactorers tune cars a wee bit rich. It was even like that for the GMS2 for the SS/SC so the GMS1 might have a good chance of being a bit rich too, making the probability of running it lean a bit lower. Still a good concern
Actually if my memory serves me correct, the GMS1 was delayed for the CSS because of the 10hp difference resulting from the Cobalts lower hood clearance, and that GM (before the bankrupcy fiasco) was developing a different intake for the car to be included with the Cobalt's Stage1;
Once that plan was more or decided against, I had understod that the intake remained in development, and was going to be offered as the "Stage2"...
I do not think GM will ever offer a better intake for our cars.
The only thing remaining on the Stage1 tune is the rev limit, which prevents the small turbo we have from over spooling.
This information is posted somewhere here (quoted from the GM engineer behind the stage kit, and linked from GM Tuner Source if my memory serves me correctly).
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From: SouthEast
BINGO!!
the learn down is totally disabled.
The only thing remaining on the Stage1 tune is the rev limit, which prevents the small turbo we have from over spooling.
This information is posted somewhere here (quoted from the GM engineer behind the stage kit, and linked from GM Tuner Source if my memory serves me correctly).
the learn down is totally disabled.
The only thing remaining on the Stage1 tune is the rev limit, which prevents the small turbo we have from over spooling.
This information is posted somewhere here (quoted from the GM engineer behind the stage kit, and linked from GM Tuner Source if my memory serves me correctly).
I took this from another post in a different forum.. I can't quote the "validity" of it...
"The GM Stage 1 tune raises the Desired Boost and Actual Torque output levels but does NOT completely remove the learn down but it does raise it. Other Tunes work the same way. They do not completely remove the learn down they merely raise it to a level that the car cannot acheive in the first place. Think of the learn down more like a target airload level or target torque output level. If you add mods or change the charge air density the ECM will sense that it is reaching its target torque output much more easily than before. That is not to say that adding mods without a tune will produce no gains at all. It is possible when adding mods like a catless DP and an Intake to make more power than stock even without being retuned. Although the gains are much larger if you retune the car I have seen evidence that even thousands of miles after adding mods a car will still dyno higher than stock. I have seen a stock tune LNF with an Intake and Catless DP make 254 whp and 272 wrtq thousands of miles after first adding the mods. That car stock on that same dyno would make closer to 240 whp and 250 wrtq."
I took this from another post in a different forum.. I can't quote the "validity" of it...
"The GM Stage 1 tune raises the Desired Boost and Actual Torque output levels but does NOT completely remove the learn down but it does raise it. Other Tunes work the same way. They do not completely remove the learn down they merely raise it to a level that the car cannot acheive in the first place. Think of the learn down more like a target airload level or target torque output level. If you add mods or change the charge air density the ECM will sense that it is reaching its target torque output much more easily than before. That is not to say that adding mods without a tune will produce no gains at all. It is possible when adding mods like a catless DP and an Intake to make more power than stock even without being retuned. Although the gains are much larger if you retune the car I have seen evidence that even thousands of miles after adding mods a car will still dyno higher than stock. I have seen a stock tune LNF with an Intake and Catless DP make 254 whp and 272 wrtq thousands of miles after first adding the mods. That car stock on that same dyno would make closer to 240 whp and 250 wrtq."
"The GM Stage 1 tune raises the Desired Boost and Actual Torque output levels but does NOT completely remove the learn down but it does raise it. Other Tunes work the same way. They do not completely remove the learn down they merely raise it to a level that the car cannot acheive in the first place. Think of the learn down more like a target airload level or target torque output level. If you add mods or change the charge air density the ECM will sense that it is reaching its target torque output much more easily than before. That is not to say that adding mods without a tune will produce no gains at all. It is possible when adding mods like a catless DP and an Intake to make more power than stock even without being retuned. Although the gains are much larger if you retune the car I have seen evidence that even thousands of miles after adding mods a car will still dyno higher than stock. I have seen a stock tune LNF with an Intake and Catless DP make 254 whp and 272 wrtq thousands of miles after first adding the mods. That car stock on that same dyno would make closer to 240 whp and 250 wrtq."
Q. Is GM making the stage 2 for the LNF or not.Very happy with stage 1 .What can be expected from a stage 1 LNF with full bolt ons .Is there a limit set on the stage 1 tune?
A. The stage 1 tune is only limited by the turbo overspeed safeties that are built into the tune. We have not tested for a max limit. I was hoping the GMTunerSource.com readers would continue to show me how much power and torque they can achieve by posting their results.
A. The stage 1 tune is only limited by the turbo overspeed safeties that are built into the tune. We have not tested for a max limit. I was hoping the GMTunerSource.com readers would continue to show me how much power and torque they can achieve by posting their results.
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From: SouthEast
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From: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
You are correct. The power rating differences are due to the intake air cleaner system differences on the vehicles.
Bill
Bill
I vaguely remember reading about the slight differences in power/torque with the Cobalt vs Sky/Solstice had something to do with the design of the stock airbox. The Cobalt's airbox arm is solid, while the roadsters' arm allow for some flex in the engine bay when the engine comes to life. Also, you have to consider there is less drivetrain loss in a FF powertrain. Hope this helps. :-)
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From: SouthEast
in your opinion would adding a K&N Typhoon be beneficial to the GMS1 and make up the difference to what the Sky is making? or would the additional air flow negatively impact the MAF ? .. or do you think the GMS1 would compensate for this.
I know the calibration apparently says something to the effect of "stage 1 & stage 2 calibration" - I wonder if any of the aftermarket intake issues disappear when installed on stage1 cars...
I should really get my overhead door fixed, roll the Cobalt in the garage, and do the install of my stage 1...
I for one would like to see something from GM either the stage2 actually getting released, or gm certification for one of the aftermarket intakes... as right now, that's the only way I would do one...
(as a matter of fact, if either of these were to happen, I'd probably buy tomorrow...)
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From: Newfoundland
sub'd for the opinion from Bill!
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From: Newfoundland
here, this is from a GM-affiliate site, getting info straight from the source;
LINK
Q. Is GM making the stage 2 for the LNF or not.Very happy with stage 1 .What can be expected from a stage 1 LNF with full bolt ons .Is there a limit set on the stage 1 tune?
A. The stage 1 tune is only limited by the turbo overspeed safeties that are built into the tune. We have not tested for a max limit. I was hoping the GMTunerSource.com readers would continue to show me how much power and torque they can achieve by posting their results.
A. The stage 1 tune is only limited by the turbo overspeed safeties that are built into the tune. We have not tested for a max limit. I was hoping the GMTunerSource.com readers would continue to show me how much power and torque they can achieve by posting their results.
Q. In reguards to the LNF powered Cobalt SS, is GM going to be releasing any more performance parts to enhance the car past the Turbo Upgrade Kit? I among other owners have hit a road block in reguards to aftermarket air intakes and their ill effect on fuel trims. Idealy, with GM's knowledge and tools, im sure something could be produced to beat the competition in reguards to function as well as quality.
A. I thank you for your confidence in our products. I am sorry that I cannot comment on any future products until GM Marketing has released the information to the public. That being said we try to work and plan so that any kits are available near the introduction of a car or product line. So
A. I thank you for your confidence in our products. I am sorry that I cannot comment on any future products until GM Marketing has released the information to the public. That being said we try to work and plan so that any kits are available near the introduction of a car or product line. So
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From: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
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From: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
I do not have any data to back whether or not this K&N intake would add power. If the intake lowered the restriction you would gain power. However, you may need some kind of recalibration if the MAF calibration curve is affected by the intake.
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From: Windsor NS
correct me if im wrong but also.. look at your upper charge pipe it's squished because of the hood clearance .. i think the sky/solstice/hhr doesn't have that problem which helps their numbers.
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From: SouthEast
does this sound logical?