Hahn SS/TC hits 12's!
Senior Member
Joined: 07-30-08
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville FL.
Great times! Got to love the ppc!
It looks like in all 3 runs you have had on this board that you were going about 84.5 mph in the 1/8 mile, the very first run with only the ppc and exhaust you went 84.3, then with the new intake and drag radials, you went 84.8, then this time 84.3 again.
The MPH's all range from 104 and change to 106 and change, and you actually ran a few 105+ times with just the ppc/exhaust.
So does the intake really help that much over the stock air box at this hp level?
Just curious?
I would like to see the corrected altitude for each run to compare the times and see if weather conditions made any diff?
It looks like in all 3 runs you have had on this board that you were going about 84.5 mph in the 1/8 mile, the very first run with only the ppc and exhaust you went 84.3, then with the new intake and drag radials, you went 84.8, then this time 84.3 again.
The MPH's all range from 104 and change to 106 and change, and you actually ran a few 105+ times with just the ppc/exhaust.
So does the intake really help that much over the stock air box at this hp level?
Just curious?
I would like to see the corrected altitude for each run to compare the times and see if weather conditions made any diff?
Senior Member
Joined: 04-01-08
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
From: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
just wondering.....this may be a noobish question but im pretty ignorant when it comes to dragging. but anyways, in that first slip where the 1/4 mile time is under 13, the reaction time is negative....meaning u started too soon. wouldnt that throw the actual 1/4 time off? if thats so, the time isnt quite a 12 yet, right?
Senior Member
Joined: 03-17-06
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
From: NE Ohio
just wondering.....this may be a noobish question but im pretty ignorant when it comes to dragging. but anyways, in that first slip where the 1/4 mile time is under 13, the reaction time is negative....meaning u started too soon. wouldnt that throw the actual 1/4 time off? if thats so, the time isnt quite a 12 yet, right?
impressive runs, none the less.
Member
Joined: 05-31-08
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
From: Elyria, OH
The timer starts as soon as you roll out. Reaction time has nothing to do with over all 1/4 mile time. If that were the case there would be alot more 10 and 11 sec bone stock rides out there. So if you take off lets say with a -5 sec RT or sit there for five minutes, the 1/4 mile time will only start when you roll out of the Staging beams.
Junior Member
Joined: 09-24-08
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Seven Hills, OH
that's some impressive numbers guys congrats! i hope that u guys put dyno runs on each one of the parts after everything is fully developed so we can all see what to expect from each part we want to buy!!
Junior Member
Joined: 07-30-08
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
From: Phx. Az
Nice considering you did not even use a drag radial . Those are not sticky street tires, put some track (autocross) tires on it and see what happens, like a set of Toyo P1-A or R1R's or Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star spec, Yokohama advan Neova. These are track tires that have about a 100-200 tread life and have the same soft rubber of a drag radial. You want grip!! these tires will do it. I've raced many High hp rear drive cars and a few pwrful front drivers and in terms of drag tires MT and Nittos are the worst tires for quarter mile grip. BFG's are the best and only tire called "Axle Snapper" for a reason. Unfortunately MT's are the only DR avail for the stock wheel on the SS\TC and in a 245\40\18 size.
Senior Member
Joined: 08-02-08
Posts: 3,882
Likes: 0
From: Alabama
I love to see people calculate reaction times into their time slips...
lol
"man, i slept at the line, but if I hadn't, I ran 13s instead of 14.8s"
lol
and in other, you have no business at the drag strip like mentalities, I swear to God, I had a mustang GT owner tell me that I should be hitting better 60's than him because my car is fwd and "has all the weight in the front end"... lol
that was back when I had my modded GTP, sadly, I WAS turning better 60s than him, but that was because he was terrible at launching, lol
lol
"man, i slept at the line, but if I hadn't, I ran 13s instead of 14.8s"
lol
and in other, you have no business at the drag strip like mentalities, I swear to God, I had a mustang GT owner tell me that I should be hitting better 60's than him because my car is fwd and "has all the weight in the front end"... lol
that was back when I had my modded GTP, sadly, I WAS turning better 60s than him, but that was because he was terrible at launching, lol
Senior Member
Joined: 07-18-05
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 0
From: Canada eh!
Reaction times have nothing to do with the actual 1/4 mile time guys. You can sit on the line for 5 seconds and still run the same time. It's when you break the beam by rolling through it that the 1/4 et starts.
i almost lost hope!! i've been ready to make that CAI purchase and almost bought springs instead since it wasn't ready yet. . i think i can wait a little longer for it to come out. congrats on the times.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: 07-07-06
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
No, that's a bit too soon...but October should be do-able. We will keep everyone posted...if you are not already on our Cobalt Update List, get on it by emailing your request to sales@turbosystem.com.
Senior Member
Joined: 11-16-05
Posts: 11,137
Likes: 1
From: Central NY
Here's the list of mods:
Hahn 3" CatBack
Hahn Prototype CAI
Hahn/BSR PPC Tuner
To get the power to the track, we used Mickey Thompson ET Street radials on stock wheels.
To get the power to the Mickeys, we used a new clutch we've developed. The stock unit just wasn't up to the task of being a steadily-dragraced car with sticky tires. It's wise to keep in mind regarding durability of the stock clutch...this car's been flogged since it had 500 miles on it, so the clutch may not have had much of a chance with such minimal break in. Plus, if anyone was going to find the limits of the stock clutch, it would be US! No other company so relentlessly dragraces their own equipment in the quest for not only bragging rights, but product development of the highest order.
The 12.95 you see here was the last pass of the night, and the only 12. I reeled off a string of 13.1 and 13.0 passes before nailing this one juuuust right. Funny thing is, it wasn't even my best 60' of the night, so there's def more to be had with more practice. The car was just perfect...I made 7 passes in just several hours, and she didn't even whimper!
My best 60' of the eve was a 1.93. The car is very challenging to launch, even with the Mickeys...when that 330 ft-lbs of torque hits the wheels in 1st, it just wants to break the tires loose...hard! I've been high 1.70's with FWD drag radials, but that was on a car I did a lot of laps in to get there. I don't doubt this one will follow suit!
MPH was decent, but with a mere 13.5 PSI in the Mickeys, I was definitely scrubbing off a MPH or three. A worthy tradeoff for the 12 second pass!
==================
Now, I've been off the forum for a while while tending to what has proven to be the most challenging summer in recent memory. Since we last spoke, I've developed and tested a 600 WHP TwinTurbo C6 ZO6, and been putting out about 620 WHP on our 2.0 Ecotec Sunfire (news on these projects soon too!). My son Adam joined the Air Force, so we are trying to squeeze as much out of his Sunfire as possible before he leaves
I was also off work for awhile, laid up with a bad back, and we've had a rash of equipment breakdowns, employee illnesses, and deaths in families...it's been a #$%$ adventure!
I'm dipping my toe back in the forum waters now, and figured the best place to pick up was where I left off...with the TC development. Fear not, things have been happening in this TC arena too, and I'll have more to share very soon. We just wanted to first finish what we set out to do, which was show a TC could go 12's with just an intake, exhaust, and tune. Tires and clutch aside, it's still a pretty impressive accomplishment for a car with such simple bolt-ons! VIVA SS/TC!
So, I humbly request that if you'd like to speak to me about anything OTHER than TC stuff, that you PM me so as to keep this thread clean. Thanks!
Hahn 3" CatBack
Hahn Prototype CAI
Hahn/BSR PPC Tuner
To get the power to the track, we used Mickey Thompson ET Street radials on stock wheels.
To get the power to the Mickeys, we used a new clutch we've developed. The stock unit just wasn't up to the task of being a steadily-dragraced car with sticky tires. It's wise to keep in mind regarding durability of the stock clutch...this car's been flogged since it had 500 miles on it, so the clutch may not have had much of a chance with such minimal break in. Plus, if anyone was going to find the limits of the stock clutch, it would be US! No other company so relentlessly dragraces their own equipment in the quest for not only bragging rights, but product development of the highest order.
The 12.95 you see here was the last pass of the night, and the only 12. I reeled off a string of 13.1 and 13.0 passes before nailing this one juuuust right. Funny thing is, it wasn't even my best 60' of the night, so there's def more to be had with more practice. The car was just perfect...I made 7 passes in just several hours, and she didn't even whimper!
My best 60' of the eve was a 1.93. The car is very challenging to launch, even with the Mickeys...when that 330 ft-lbs of torque hits the wheels in 1st, it just wants to break the tires loose...hard! I've been high 1.70's with FWD drag radials, but that was on a car I did a lot of laps in to get there. I don't doubt this one will follow suit!
MPH was decent, but with a mere 13.5 PSI in the Mickeys, I was definitely scrubbing off a MPH or three. A worthy tradeoff for the 12 second pass!
==================
Now, I've been off the forum for a while while tending to what has proven to be the most challenging summer in recent memory. Since we last spoke, I've developed and tested a 600 WHP TwinTurbo C6 ZO6, and been putting out about 620 WHP on our 2.0 Ecotec Sunfire (news on these projects soon too!). My son Adam joined the Air Force, so we are trying to squeeze as much out of his Sunfire as possible before he leaves
I was also off work for awhile, laid up with a bad back, and we've had a rash of equipment breakdowns, employee illnesses, and deaths in families...it's been a #$%$ adventure!I'm dipping my toe back in the forum waters now, and figured the best place to pick up was where I left off...with the TC development. Fear not, things have been happening in this TC arena too, and I'll have more to share very soon. We just wanted to first finish what we set out to do, which was show a TC could go 12's with just an intake, exhaust, and tune. Tires and clutch aside, it's still a pretty impressive accomplishment for a car with such simple bolt-ons! VIVA SS/TC!
So, I humbly request that if you'd like to speak to me about anything OTHER than TC stuff, that you PM me so as to keep this thread clean. Thanks!
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: 07-07-06
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
P245/40R18
Thanks!
Comp mode
The differences in 1/8 mile MPHs are so minor as to be inconsequential...but in terms of trending, the 1/4 mile MPH did pick up a tad with the CAI. In dyno testing, we found more HP at high RPM by removing the stock airbox. And in the runs with the Mickeys, all MPH's were reduced somewhat by the greater rolling resistance.
So, the help over the stock airbox at this power level is minimal, but evident
Thanks!
Great times! Got to love the ppc!
It looks like in all 3 runs you have had on this board that you were going about 84.5 mph in the 1/8 mile, the very first run with only the ppc and exhaust you went 84.3, then with the new intake and drag radials, you went 84.8, then this time 84.3 again.
The MPH's all range from 104 and change to 106 and change, and you actually ran a few 105+ times with just the ppc/exhaust.
So does the intake really help that much over the stock air box at this hp level?
Just curious?
I would like to see the corrected altitude for each run to compare the times and see if weather conditions made any diff?
It looks like in all 3 runs you have had on this board that you were going about 84.5 mph in the 1/8 mile, the very first run with only the ppc and exhaust you went 84.3, then with the new intake and drag radials, you went 84.8, then this time 84.3 again.
The MPH's all range from 104 and change to 106 and change, and you actually ran a few 105+ times with just the ppc/exhaust.
So does the intake really help that much over the stock air box at this hp level?
Just curious?
I would like to see the corrected altitude for each run to compare the times and see if weather conditions made any diff?
So, the help over the stock airbox at this power level is minimal, but evident
Last edited by Hahn RaceCraft; Sep 26, 2008 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: 07-07-06
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
He's going into Civil Engineering. I'll ask him for a specific title. Thanks!
Undoubtedly, the car has awesome potential in just tuning...we are only starting to touch the capabilities of the exhaust and air intake upgrades we've developed, and as I've mentioned before, the PPC Tuner we offer would net nearly the same performance. These cars, like most late-model factory turbo offerings, have pretty nice support pieces already in place. We've been clued into this for years...witness our mid-12 second runs on our SRT-4 with stock airbox and exhaust!
Nonetheless, we are in business to develop and sell parts, so hard-parts development will continue. Fortunately, exhausts and intakes are not only purchased for their raw power gains...there's also the looks and sound aspects. Plus, setting the stage for the higher-powered mods to come later (mods that will certainly outstrip the stock intake and exhaust) is always fun!
Just tell your bud that all he needs now to go 12's are some bits from us
Nonetheless, we are in business to develop and sell parts, so hard-parts development will continue. Fortunately, exhausts and intakes are not only purchased for their raw power gains...there's also the looks and sound aspects. Plus, setting the stage for the higher-powered mods to come later (mods that will certainly outstrip the stock intake and exhaust) is always fun!
Just tell your bud that all he needs now to go 12's are some bits from us
Last edited by Hahn RaceCraft; Sep 26, 2008 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Senior Member
Joined: 11-16-05
Posts: 11,137
Likes: 1
From: Central NY
Undoubtedly, the car has awesome potential in just tuning...we are only starting to touch the capabilities of the exhaust and air intake upgrades we've developed, and as I've mentioned before, the PPC Tuner we offer would net nearly the same performance. These cars, like most late-model factory turbo offerings, have pretty nice support pieces already in place. We've been clued into this for years...witness our mid-12 second runs on our SRT-4 with stock airbox and exhaust!
Nonetheless, we are in business to develop and sell parts, so hard-parts development will continue. Fortunately, exhausts and intakes are not only purchased for their raw power gains...there's also the looks and sound aspects. Plus, setting the stage for the higher-powered mods to come later (mods that will certainly outstrip the stock intake and exhaust) is always fun!
Just tell your bud that all he needs now to go 12's are some bits from us
I'm not sure what his trap was or 60', but I was there for the 13.1 pass (I was running 14.5s that day) so I know he did it.
I keep telling him he has to remove his cat and get some other minor bolt ons
He really wants to throw a 50 shot of nitrous on it.
Senior Member
Joined: 05-18-05
Posts: 1,070
Likes: 1
From: Boston & SoCal
Nice run and best wished to your son. 
The military and specifically the AF offers some nice benefits, can build a lot of maturity, get you out into the world, and with the recent economy offers a lot of stability.
I'll back up your thoughts on the clutch. I had a decent break-in and now have about 70 passes/13k miles on my car. At the track you can feel it getting hot and softer as the day progresses. GM increased the size so the torque capacity may be decent enough for a near stock car but people should be very careful about excessively slipping it. When the organic clutch lining material gets hot enough to cause a soft pedal it wouldn't take much to glaze the material. I could definitely see how higher torque and more traction could increase the chance of that happening.
After looking at your slips and making some comparisons I'm pretty confident that with a 2.0 sixty on a bone stock car down to the tires these cars are more than capable of hitting a mid to upper 13 pass with a good driver and track conditions. I've got it down into 2.2's on the stock Conti's now but that's at our eighth-mile track which has better traction than California Speedway (which is closed for another month anyways). For essentially a tune and some traction on DOT legal tires that 12-second pass is really nice. The trap speeds on a lot of the modified HHR and Cobalt LNF cars do seem to be a little less than expected but the low trap is what wins a race and shows the cars can launch well and have a strong mid-range and overall power curve.
The military and specifically the AF offers some nice benefits, can build a lot of maturity, get you out into the world, and with the recent economy offers a lot of stability.I'll back up your thoughts on the clutch. I had a decent break-in and now have about 70 passes/13k miles on my car. At the track you can feel it getting hot and softer as the day progresses. GM increased the size so the torque capacity may be decent enough for a near stock car but people should be very careful about excessively slipping it. When the organic clutch lining material gets hot enough to cause a soft pedal it wouldn't take much to glaze the material. I could definitely see how higher torque and more traction could increase the chance of that happening.
After looking at your slips and making some comparisons I'm pretty confident that with a 2.0 sixty on a bone stock car down to the tires these cars are more than capable of hitting a mid to upper 13 pass with a good driver and track conditions. I've got it down into 2.2's on the stock Conti's now but that's at our eighth-mile track which has better traction than California Speedway (which is closed for another month anyways). For essentially a tune and some traction on DOT legal tires that 12-second pass is really nice. The trap speeds on a lot of the modified HHR and Cobalt LNF cars do seem to be a little less than expected but the low trap is what wins a race and shows the cars can launch well and have a strong mid-range and overall power curve.
