I have an 09 TC. Lately after I start the car and first drive away after letting the car partially warm up. It runs like pure crap. To the pio t that is is missing on every cylinder. Will barely idle. And has almost zero power. My fuel trims seem to swing from stft -30 to + 30. The fuel rail pressure seems good. It has over 1200 psi or more at just part throttle. And it is fine when it first starts. Once its part was warm. It acts up. And then once it's fully warmed up. It straightens itself out. And runs great. Fuel trims return to normal and all power is back. I can drive it all day and it will never act up again until it sits and is partially warmed up. Then returns to normal once full temp is achieved . I have a ton of new parts on the car. Like both new solenoid on top of the valve cover and new mass air. New plugs. New boost solebiods. New turbo. The list goes on and on. Lol... but this new issue is really wierd. Any ideas what can cause the fuel trims to swing like that so bad on the stft until it is almost fully warmed up ND the goes away and all is normal ?

Thanks

 

Whats your wide-band sensor reading during that time? It could be a slow heating o2 sensor (starting to go out) log the mV of the sensor and compare between the problem area and fully warmed up.

 

What codes do you have?

 

There absolutely no codes at all. Its super weird. The car uns so bad. Pegs the stft out to -30 and still has zero codes. It seems to go -30 on the stft. I dont think it actually goes that far positive.

 

An air leak on the intake side would cause it to run leaner making it throw a bunch of fuel at it to get the oxygen sensors to read more rich (part of the feedback loop). On the other hand, a major exhaust leak would throw off the O2 sensor. I can't explain why the issue resolves itself when warm but it's a couple things to consider what could throw your trims off. You might be able to spray liberal amounts of brake clean on the air intake bits to see if you can affect a change in how it's running, that would at least confirm an air leak; this can cause an engine fire so consider this risk.

 

Can anyone take a look at the log from HPT i did this morning and see if they can see anything going on that look off tht would cause the problem ? That would be very appreciated !! The Problem starts around the 4:45 mark to roughly the 5 minute mark. And seems to settle down until the 6:10 again until maybe the 6:30 mark. It looks like at like roughly the 5:10 ish mark my spark is at -1.5 . I have no Injector duty cycle and yet i am in the throttle at about 25 percent. What can cause that to happen ? And yet i still have no codes . Cam phasers maybe ?? Or something else ?

Also , i forgot it mention. As the car is stumbling and acting like crap and for a few seconds or so after the car smells really funky. Its not like the rotten egg smell of a converter . But it still smells really strong and bad inside the car.

Thanks

P.s - Also , if you zoom out in the HPT scanner and look at the readings from about the 3:30 mark to the 5 minute mark you can see the spark coming up and disappearing again and again. As well as the WB B1 . Which I assume is the Wide Band ?? As in the O2 sensor in the exhaust ? The oxygen sensor in the manifold up by the Turbo ??

 

You spark table appears to be jacked, pull up a stock tune to compare. Otherwise there is something pulling massive amounts of timing.

 

What can cause a problem like the sprak dropping off like that? I have tried 3 or 4 stock tunes. It does the same thing. Can the cam phasers that run off the timing chain cause a problem like this ?? I can't think of any other parts that would cause a loss of spark. If it is a cam phasers, would it be the intake more so then the exhast ? Or could it be either one. Or something all together different.

Also , is that picture of my actual sprak table ? If so my scanner must be set up a bit different . Mine says timing advance- air load vs rpm. And has some totally different numbers.

 

Is that from decel timing? I can't say I've ever seen that much pulled from decel.

I need to take a look at that log file, I've been a busy with work and haven't had a chance.

 

If you could have a chance to look at it also that would be great. The problem is also under load when I'm into the throttle any at all , or all the way. Or even just idling it almost dies. It just stumbles and misses like crazy. Smells bad... probably rich as hell. Fuel trims at -30 stft and then as soon as it warms up totally. It works perfect and halls ass as always. I have changed to gms1 as well as stock tune. Still does it. Starts fine.. runs great for about 5 minutes. Then acts up for 5 mins until fully warmed and then works perfect. Idk what can cause massive timing loss. Cam phasers ?? Or something else.

 

Most of that crazy negative timing is from the start of the log. Next time turn the key to on, but leave the engine off, then start the log, and then start the car.

I'd test for boost and vacuum leaks, there is some irregularity in the MAF & VE readings. Check every possible leak point, not just charge piping joints, remove the EVAP solenoid line to the gas tank and make sure the solenoid isn't leaking, check both map sensors, your reference line from the lower charge pipe, intake manifold to head, and don't forget to verify the PCV lines going to the intake and turbo are not leaking as well.

One thing to try is to disconnect the maf and see how it runs (after doing the boost/vacuum leak and there were no leaks).

 

So does it look more like a boost leak ? Or a fueling or spark issue ?? Or possible bad cam phasers. I have tested for a boost leak. And cant seem to find one. Not one that is obvious. Unless it is between tbe block and the intake manifold. I cleaned my valves a few times and reused the old gasket. But I cant see that being the issue. Because what ever is wrong fixing itself.

The ve readings I assume are based off the maf ?

 

VE readings are a ECU calculated based on fuel, o2 sensor, and map.

They aren't specifically looking like a boost leak, but they're jumping all over the place with little or no throttle input from you. I'd double check there isn't a leak at the manifold to head, and then check the exhaust side for leaks as well.

Also to address your earlier question about 0% injector duty, -1.5* timing, and throttle at 25%, that's a standard DFCO or decel fuel cut condition. You want to look at accelerator pedal for your input, the throttle % is the actual throttle blade position which should never be 0%. Also injector duty on the LNF is a little wonky, look at injector ms, you want to say below about 7.0ms.

Something that might be worth checking or replacing depending on the miles you have on it, is the wideband o2 sensor in the exhaust elbow. Last time I bought one, it was like $50 and easy to replace. You could have an issue with a slow to react o2 sensor that once heated acts fine.

 

No that is the scanner table and you're right I should be using whatever scales your spark table has (I quickly downloaded VCM onto my work computer and just sent it as is, opps).

Please do this, open up both your high/low spark tables from within the editor and confirm your scanner scales match the editor tables exactly, so the increments of the numbers too along with the PID. Next, look for sharp transitions in the timing tables. If everything is relatively smooth, try to run the scanner playback with the correct Timing Advance table in the scanner to see if blocks next to each other have huge differences in spark advance degrees. Possibly you're going into fuel cut at those low manifold pressures as seen in the screen shot I put up? wild ass guess

What I was getting it is, if the engine is going from +40 timing to -10 timing for example, the car would run like absolute garbage. Whiteboard out: think of changes in throttle plate angle as slow torque adjustments and timing changes as fast torque adjustments. So with an electronic throttle plate engine with no IAC valve, the ECU uses changes in timing to adjust idle speed because adjusting timing can quickly make changes to rpm, but the magnitude of the change is small so it will integrate throttle plate angle changes for larger magnitude engine rpm adjustments.

 

The timing isn't going from +40 to -10 rapid, the only rapid timing change happens at DFCO and what he is seeing is pretty normal for an LNF.

The start of the log is the extremely negative timing, and it step wise adjusts back to near 0* for idle.

 

The beginning of the log is about half way through the cat warm up cycle. So I guess if I'm loosing fuel ? Or spark? Maybe my hpfp is flooding the engine maybe ?

I should put a new intake manifold gasket on. As its been reused at least twice.

 

The hpfp isn't flooding the engine, the injectors can hold back way more pressure than what it's seeing at idle.

I've never had cat warmup on so I'm not sure how the log should look, rev'ing the engine high cold just seems like a bad idea.

I can't say if the intake manifold gasket is bad, try a boost leak test with the engine cold and spray down the intake manifold and look for bubbles.

 

I haven't had a chanve yet to boost leak test the car and spray around the intake manifold gasket. But , I DEFFINITLY have a boost leak when the car is cold. I can hear a massive hiss and whossing sound clear as day coming from the car as I try to give it gas and it is acting up. If it was a cracked intercooler or a loose hose it wouldn't fix itself and go away once the car is warm. Which it does right now. Once the car is warmed up it leaks zero boost and works great. Only thing I can think of is the intake manifold gasket has given out. I have reused it 2 or 3 times after cleaning my valves. So maybe it is leaking. And once the engine block and manifold itself warm up and start to expand it closes the gap the gasket has ??? Only thing I can think of that would cause a major boost leak like I am hearing and feeling and then goes away once warmed up. Any thoughts ??

 

Could also be on the exhaust side causing the issue with odd readings until the heat expands the metal enough to seal the leak. That should be easy to spot, just look for soot at gasket edges.

 

I will have to give that a try tomorrow. I just Took the intake manifold off and put another gasket on it. Cleaned up all the surfaces. The gasket was only used once and looked almost brand new. Unfortunately the problem is still there. Where on the exhaust should I be looking at the gasket ? I would think if it where an exhast leak i would be abke to hear it. Especially if it was the gasket from the Turbo to the down pipe or even the gasket between the exhaust manifold and Turbo tself. Also I always heard these kind of leaks cause slow spool and a loss of power at all times. The car still spools normal and fast. But I will deffinitly take a look. Just sucks cause one can only see half or maybe three quarters of the gasket. If that.... But im starting to run out of ideas.
what else can cause a -25 stft on acceleration?? bad primary 02 like you said before? Anything else ?

Thanks

 

I might have an idea as to what is causing my issue. Maybe . First , I want to add that I run a tune with a devils own meth kit. I run a mixture of washer fluid , distilled water and methanol. Based on an equation of weight. Not volume. Anyhow , this is relevant because the last week or so , ever sense this issue started I have also noticed that I have to fill my meth tank almost every other day. I have a 10 Litre ( 2.5 Gallons ) trunk mounted tank. I filled just last night right to the brim. And this morning. Before I even drove the car. The tank was all ready down just over night by an inch or two. I think MAYBE my check valve might be stuck open in the line just before the nozzle. And my car parks in my drive way which is on a bit of a hill facing out to the road. Putting the tank well above the nozzle. And over the night it might be leaking into charge pipe and there is a big poodle of meth and water in my charge pipe . And as soon as the car sees any boost at all. It throws all the meth from the puddle at the engine. Causing it to bog out and almost barely stay running for a few seconds. It will run perfect all day in vacuum. But the first time it hits any boost. say a few psi or more. It falls flat on its face. Then the next time I try boost, it is much better , still not perfect. But better. And by the third time I try boost it is perfect. So , I guess what I am saying is my meth tank setup might have some crud in the check valve causing it to leak into my charge pipe over night .

Does that make sense at all ? it would explain why also all of a sudden my car is using meth even during the night while I sleep.

Thoughts ?

 

Well , I dont think that was the problem after all. I parked my car in my drive way the other way around and it still acted up this morning. I drove it for 50 miles and kept it out of boost. It drove 100 percent fine in vacuum for an hour and the second I gave it a moderate amount of gas it fell flat on its face and just shudders. No acceleration. Stft at like -30 . Then the second time I give it gas. Its perfect. Its ALWAYS just the first or second time it sees boost it has a huge issue. After that it's perfect. It doesn't appear to be temp related at all after all. Any ideas what can cause a huge studder like that for the first or second time into boost and then its fine for the whole rest of the day ?

It deffinitly is not temperature related. The first few times it sees any hoost at all. It stumbles and misses. Then is perfect all day. And the converter smells after it stumbles for a few seconds. Can smell it in the car.

Thanks

 

Have you completely removed the meth system and plugged the feed line?

 

I haven't at all. I only parked it in my drive way the opposite as I normally do. Which pits the nozzle well above the tank level itself so it doesn't gravity feed as bad if the check calve is hanging open. That is all I have tried so far. If I disconnect the check valve from the system.. I dont know what to plug it with for a few days. I may have to order a new check valve. Or clean the one I have. It really feels and seems like I am almost hydro locking the engine if it is indeed pooling metg in the charge pipe over the night. Any ideas what to plug the line with so it doesn't gravity feed on its own ?

 

I'm not familiar with the meth systems from a fitting standpoint. It's honestly starting to sound like your check valve has failed and is allowing your meth/water mix to be sucked in at random levels of vacuum or post boost. Pressurize the meth system, then vacuum after letting off causing a bigger pressure difference putting meth in your charge system, which idle or lower speed rpm can't pull into the engine, then you got WOT and suck a bunch of extra meth.