tomj77

iTrader: (2)

man i have 13k km on my motor and i have been looking for that leak, and i dont have one drop of oil anywhere around the area of the pump or sensor. guess im one of the lucky few

More_Torque_More_HP

Here is what the bulletin that is going to be issued shortly will say:

It will state that if oil seapage is observed around the fuel pump and/or cam sensor the fix should not be simply replacing the fuel pump face seal and/or O-ring. The proper fix is to remove the cam cap, remove locktite sealer, and replace with 3-Bond (RTV) sealer. In addition, the fuel pump face seal and O-ring should be replaced. If the cam cap sealant is not replaced the leak will reappear.

The New Important Part Here Is: If the cam cap sealant is not replaced the leak will reappear.

northvibe

iTrader: (1)

Ohhhhh nice Bill thanks!

ryans09SS/TC

well please let us know as soon as the bulletin makes it to the dealers because ive taken my car to the dealer already and those idiots told me it was normal with a high pressure system like ours. haha yeah oil leaks are normal now i guess

northvibe

iTrader: (1)

yeah highly un-normal. I hate when dealers say stupid stuff like that. My DI MS3 has zero oil leaks. This bulletin should help, but you can also try a different dealer if need be.

julius41282

iTrader: (1)

How exactly will we know what to tell the dealership when calling in about the oil leak?

Gimpster

julius41282,

Trust me I feel your pain... my dealers were saying the same. At some point a TSB will be issued and you can bring your dealer that # to reference.

---

I've got the car back together now. Unfortunatly I couldn't get my hands on any ThreeBond 1194 (I assume 1194 would've been the right compound) as NOBODY had it. I found one package of it at this old timers store, but it looked like it has been there for years. I'll get into what I used a little bit lower. I know its great stuff, but time was of the essence on this job. I didn't want to keep DD'ing my Syclone because bad things usually start happening when I drive it too much and you thought your Cobalt was unreliable!

Ended up using a combination of slightly thicker o-rings on the cam position sensor and fuel pump gooped up pretty decently with RTV. I also put a nice bead around the mounting base of the fuel pump, placed the gasket on and then put a bead around that too. On the end cap, I actually decided to ditch that gimpy o-ring entirely and use RTV exclusivly. I can't imagine having that thing off much/ever.

In place of Threebond I used Toyota FIPG (Form In Place Gasket) 00295-00103. I'm a long time Toyota owner and this stuff is pretty much the ****. This is what we use on the oil pans (no gasket on a Toyota), cam caps .... you name it. I assure you my MR2 doesn't leak anything.

Been driving the car two days so far and I can't detect any leaks yet. Little premature to call it fixed, but I have faith. FWIW, I don't think new o-rings are needed at all so ignore that I replaced them. Not really treading any new ground here.

I'll be making a full write up on taking the car apart, and then re-assembling here soon with pictures.

Gettinausernamesucks

3 bond is available at any GM dealer parts counter. However its not usually called three bond. Ask for Oil pan Gasket sealer for an Ecotec. Its the Grey RTV. They also used it extensively at Saturn dealers on Saturn engines. Just ask for a tube of Grey RTV. That is three bond

Don't use that cheap crap that they sell at Pep boys and Murrays. Permatex sucks.

Maven

iTrader: (1)

Correct, to the best of my knowledge when GM consolidated its sealers a few years back they cut down from like 9 liquid sealers down to 3. A high strength high viscocity RTV, anaerobic gasket eliminator(red gel, this is what is on the camshaft caps now) and pipe sealant.

The RTV is plainly called "Engine Sealant" it should be PN12378521 This is the 3Bond product. If you ask for 3Bond at a dealer youll likely never get anything but odd looks.

Honda and Yamaha also use similar products(Hondabond, Yamabond) but i believe they are the thinner black type, I think the GM is closer Threebond 1216 or 1217 products, 1194 will almost defintiely get the job done

EDIT: The oil consumption guidelines being used in this case is a sign that A: the dealer doesnt understand your complaint, B: the dealer has no desire to work on your vehicle or C: the dealer is ignorant. The Oil Consumption guidelines are for, you guessed it, "consumption" of oil.....that is burning it.

Gettinausernamesucks

Yes saturn was the origional sourcer for three bond within GM and GM went mainstream with it. And yes it comes from japan.
When it was sourced everyone asked why don't those japanese motorcycles ever leak?? Then we started studying the grey sealer they used. Thats how 3 Bond came to be on GM engines. That stuff will even seal if theres oil on the surface when the two parts are mated. Something regular RTV's don't do well.

Gimpster

Thanks for the tips, although I'm reluctant to buy anything from the same dealers who wouldn't help me. Should I ever have to tear it down again I'll get some of the 3bond. Owned yamaha r6 for quite awhile so I remember yamabond.

Maven, the heated discussion I got into with the one SA was about consumption vs the motor bleeding oil. He said it was one and the same and obviously I, and most rational people, don't agree with.

In the end I'm glad I did the work. Was time out of my life, but I care about my investment a lot more than many techs would.

Gettinausernamesucks

You know every time I read a dealer won't step up it just frosts me. Granted we don't own dealers and can't dictate their actions but it reflects bad on us at GM who are trying to make the customer experience a the best it can be.
My apologies your dealer experiencies are not satisfactory. I'm just one guy as Bill Duncan is but we will keep fighting for you.
The good thing is its getting much much better.

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

Bill & Gettin', I finally got around to repairing the HP fuel pump gasket leak on mine tonight and wanted to add that there was no sealer on the gasket whatsoever. I think many of us have found this.

I had already attacked the camshaft end plate and cam position sensor, hopefully this will be the last leaker for a while.

Thanks for all you do for us.

Gimpster

Do any of you have connections with a moderator of this site? I wrote a GIANT how-to with tons of pictures on fixing the oil leaks. Been 3-4 days and still nothing in the how-to section.

Would hate to think I spent an hour typing up something for nothing.

Gimpster

The how-to finally got approved!

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...78#post4344478

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

Yay! Thanks for all the effort!

Permafried-

My dealership went the extra mile to correct it, dye test, parts ordered, installed, sealed, etc. and when checking last night I have so much god damned build-up in the places Gimpster mentioned it's unreal. (Note: This was for the camshaft position sensor only; the remaining are yet to be addressed)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and question why it has taken so long for a TSB to be put together (the last update was one was in the works but it's almost 2010!) on this when a forum user is able to diagnose and repair (as best we can tell) this in his garage. My concern is for all those who don't join online forums and are ripping around in TCs oblivious to the fact they're leaking oil, in some cases like a syve. If seals are failing as a result of the locktite not curing is this not going to potentially lead to premature failure of the affected components?

With winter coming I guarantee you the seals are going to shrink from the extreme temperatures we all experience in the northern US and Canada and I suspect this will only increase the mess I have around my fuel pump. Mind you it should be super rustproofed with the amount of **** coating the fuel pump, side of the block, sensors and everything else in that general vicinity .

I'm definitely not pointing the finger at you or Bill and greatly appreciate the effort both of you put forth to help out on these forums but this has been an issue since the 08s were released. The 2010s are now hitting lots and yet us with the first production versions are still stuck blowing oil out like its free and dealerships keep blowing countless GM dollars diagnosing the same issue over and over again under warranty.

Just my .02 and with that said, any update on when this TSB is going out if it hasn't already? I NEED this fixed and shouldn't have to do it myself. Unfortunately going to the dealer and saying "it's still leaking oil" isn't as efficient as saying "I'm still leaking oil, compared against this TSB and have all the same symptoms".

Married w/children

Took mine in finally, they are ordering a gasket. I will take this thread with me to ensure they know they are doing...I only say this because they told me the rear brake groving was normal to keep the rust at bay!!

sherm420

good info nice write up

Permafried-

And it's still not a sticky god damn it .