MasterOfApplience

So I have been asking a few questions on this forum these last few days and it seems a few people at-least are interested in the setup I'm building; So here it is.

I made an imgur album instead of directly placing them in this post because I was fairly liberal with my picture taking. Album: PPC - Imgur

You can see from the pictures that I have a lot of things I still have to setup before the engine will be able to run. And even once that's happened I still have to instrument the engine for data acquisition with thermocouples, wide range A/F sensors... etc and hopefully cylinder pressure.

Thanks for all your help so far I'll no doubt have some specific (and hopefully not stupid) questions for you soon.

Sox-Fan

iTrader: (7)

dibs on the engine when it's done.

jmesl8er

Nice azz work area.

armcclure

iTrader: (2)

Subd

user 72239

iTrader: (4)

This is awesome. so are you using DI and Port Injection or have you sealed the DI off?

MasterOfApplience

I'll be using them both, possibly with different fuels in each.

PrincessTurbo

I cant wait for someone to come in here and nag on you for a band aid solution, I mean , single and multi port injection only been around for EVER. LOL good luck with this and I am jelly of the engine stand setup you got going , some real potential for hard core R&D here. Curious what secondary fuel you are talking about, would you need 2 tanks then one in the trunk for the higher octane and use your big tank for cruising .. Sounds interesting!

MasterOfApplience

Band aid solution? I didn't know I had a problem. What problem have I temporarily solved haha? Yes I'm excited to start testing however that's going to be a while from now. And for the secondary fuel we are hoping to use bio-fuel with the help of BioFuelNet. I'm going to a conference in Montreal next week to learn more about it. If interested their annual report is a good read: http://www.biofuelnet.ca/wp-content/...-WEB_FINAL.pdf

My research is fairly open ended right now and I won't be able to pick what I want to do until I get the engine and control software working. Then it will be a matter of figuring out what I am capable of doing with my setup and from that narrowing my research topic.

Sox-Fan

iTrader: (7)

You're potentially solving two problems

1) With the current fueling setup on this engine you can run out of gas before air. Nobody makes bigger injectors so various bandaids have been devised with a 5th injector added to the intake to get more fuel. Obviously it's difficult to achieve even fueling across all 4 cylinders with such a setup. Your multiport solution could be a fix.

2) DI engines have no fuel running across the back of the intake valves. No fuel on the valves makes then hotter. Means no detergent washing them. Add that to the LNF's horrible PCV design and you get major amounts of oil coked onto the back of the intake valves causing loss of compression, misfire, and pulsing in the intake. Your multiport solution could be a help perhaps.

umrdyldo

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't think it would take very big injectors to make it a great option. Adding 10-25% more fuel on top of the stock setup would be huge.

I wonder how this will work with the way direct injection atomizes the fuel though. Would it get the benefits of both or just wash out the atomization and be exactly like port fuel injection?

armcclure

iTrader: (2)

I think a lot of the atomization of the DI comes from the fact that its at an insanely high pressure compared to port fueling. So that should remain unchanged. This could be a game changer for e85 guys.

Sox-Fan

iTrader: (7)

I don't think he's doing any of this for commercial use. I think it's for a Master's thesis. Nonetheless, if he finds positive results and shares some of his findings they surely could be applied by someone with the right ability.

umrdyldo

iTrader: (1)

I thought that at first, but what happens when you dump non atomized fuel on top of atomized fuel?

Guess this guy will find out.
Wonder how long it would take on this setup to clean the valves.

Also, OP, if you were the coolest guy on Earth you would work on a port injection type setup that was designed to mist our valves to clean them. Just for cleaning purposing, not for fueling. I would love to have a sprayer setup that cleaned the valves when hooked up and then taken off when they look good.

MasterOfApplience

Oh I see, your thinking about the problems with this specific engine. The only reason we picked this engine was because we wanted both direct and port injection, and we knew someone who had success in putting port injectors on this engine and getting the ECU and another engine controller (for the port injectors) to play nicely in his software package. So my research goal isn't focused on righting some drawbacks this engine currently has. Although when I make my data publicly available we can definitely see if it had that effect. However, running at WOT for any period of time in a lab is something that is quite risky and definitely won't be done often, so I can't say how useful my data will be for trying to draw those conclusions.

Also I'm not sure about your forum rules but if I have further questions should I post them here or start a new thread? Off the top of my head I'm confused about the radiator and surge tank piping. Mainly I don't know what goes where. Should I ask those questions with pictures here or make a new thread? Whats the forum etiquette on that?

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

Depending on who is funding his masters thesis it could become commercial, although I bet it would be adapted to newer engines.

Its awesome to see this kind of research being done and shared

Sox-Fan

iTrader: (7)

I can see something like this preventing valve coking, but I'm not at all sure it can actually clean coked up valves unless it's spraying some serious chemicals. In which case just taking off the intake to add on a rig like this gives you all the access you need to spray the chemical in there and clean the valves by hand.

Sox-Fan

iTrader: (7)

The other threads that you have about the vacuum lines would work if you want to tack onto that, or a new one would be fine too.

Let's keep this one for discussing the actual tests, outcomes, and applications of the knowledge.

MasterOfApplience

You guys are too fast for me I can't keep up.

Yes your right this is for my masters. I'll definitely make my findings public as much as possible. Or at-least the interesting stuff.

I am no expert on the outcomes from mixing atomized fuel with non-atomized fuel but yes I will definitely find out. As for the attachable port injector cleaner, someone already has a patent on such technology as seen here: Patent US6178944 - Valve cleaning method for direct injection spark ignition engine - Google Patents so I can't help you there.

The group funding my research has a number of industry partners including General Motors Research and Development Centre so with an astronomical amount of luck and a tiny bit of skill this could be used on newer engines, although I wouldn't hold your breath.

That sounds good. I'll probably make a new thread each time I have a question but I'll be sure to pack a tonne of stuff into each question to make it worth the new thread. Like have it encompass all the questions I have about something fairly big.

armcclure

iTrader: (2)

Port fuel is still atomized, just not quite as well. It's a combination of turbulence and being sprayed onto the back side of a scalding hot piece of metal.

CudaJoe

iTrader: (1)

I got a suggestion for that intercooler. Get a better one and sell that one lol


Oh and what engine did this come out of? The turbo looks different. That the TD04 from a Buick Regal GS? I see it has a bolt on 4" extension so that a couple T-bolt clamp can be mounted.
If I remember from my 2011 visit to the car show in Baltimore, the Buick Regal GS had a bolt on charge pipe like that

MasterOfApplience

The guy who will be installing his custom engine controller so that I can control both port and direct injectors wanted our setup to be as stock as possible so that we will have no issues configuring his custom software package. However once that's all done we might scrap the turbo all together and replace it with something easier to control like a supercharger. So for that we might have to get a new intercooler but for now it needs to stay stock.

That is the stock turbo from a 2009 Cobalt SS. Its the same one in all of the service manual pictures.

CudaJoe

iTrader: (1)

Im an idiot, you are correct, I never remembered seeing that before. K04 turbo. I was seeing if you guys were working with the newer LNF engine that has the mitsu turbo.

And about the intercooler. I understand the desire to keep it as factory as possible. If you do alittle digging around here you will find that the stock intercooler is prone to cracking under higher boost. Even recorded incidents of factory setting on a factory intercooler breaking.

Thats the only reason I brought it up. Plastic intercoolers are no beuno.

P.S. - This is really awesome what your doing. This does solve alot of fueling issues for those who want to make alot of power with big turbos.

user 72239

iTrader: (4)

Supercharged LNF. lol epic

MasterOfApplience

Superchargers are obviously much easier to keep at a constant boost pressure. We usually just run them with a separate electric motor so that's one less variable we have to worry about.

yamaha288

why not just use a saab turbo intake, fuel rail, and meth controller to controll injectors?