2.0 Ecotec motor cut out at full throttle.
07-01-2012, 01:50 AM
#26
New Member
Join Date: 06-27-12
Location: monroe, wisconsin
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok so i figured out the problem! my car is bone stock stock pully injectors everything but i have a zzp 3 inch intake. it sputtered at high and sometimes mid rpm. i put some techron fuel system cleaner in my car run perfect now!!!
07-01-2012, 11:30 PM
#28
Maybe where u live the sea level is high enough to allow that but the normal person cant run 42s with a 2.8 without maxing out the injectors and running lean and taking that chance of hurting the engine, reguardless if u have ran lean for too 2 years and nothing happen does not mean that things can go wrong and mess up an engine when its not tuned and modded correctly.
07-01-2012, 11:56 PM
#30
maybe where u live the sea level is high enough to allow that but the normal person cant run 42s with a 2.8 without maxing out the injectors and running lean and taking that chance of hurting the engine, reguardless if u have ran lean for too 2 years and nothing happen does not mean that things can go wrong and mess up an engine when its not tuned and modded correctly.
07-02-2012, 12:00 AM
#31
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: 06-11-07
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, ItalianJoe lives in Florida, I believe near Miami so there is now way he is high enough above sea level. Ive never tried it and never wanted to, I always wanna have extra fuel but if Joe says he has done it and it worked I believe him, Joe is an OG around here, years before a lot of your join dates, I wouldnt go against him.
07-02-2012, 12:17 AM
#32
Maybe where u live the sea level is high enough to allow that but the normal person cant run 42s with a 2.8 without maxing out the injectors and running lean and taking that chance of hurting the engine, reguardless if u have ran lean for too 2 years and nothing happen does not mean that things can go wrong and mess up an engine when its not tuned and modded correctly.
Actually, ItalianJoe lives in Florida, I believe near Miami so there is now way he is high enough above sea level. Ive never tried it and never wanted to, I always wanna have extra fuel but if Joe says he has done it and it worked I believe him, Joe is an OG around here, years before a lot of your join dates, I wouldnt go against him.
Don't get me wrong. I am not putting Joe down as he has a nice home built dual pass and has helped several members out. But lets make sure we are not just blowing smoke up someones **** because I did something dangerous and got away with it.
07-02-2012, 03:19 AM
#33
Actually, ItalianJoe lives in Florida, I believe near Miami so there is now way he is high enough above sea level. Ive never tried it and never wanted to, I always wanna have extra fuel but if Joe says he has done it and it worked I believe him, Joe is an OG around here, years before a lot of your join dates, I wouldnt go against him.
07-02-2012, 07:59 PM
#34
Maybe where u live the sea level is high enough to allow that but the normal person cant run 42s with a 2.8 without maxing out the injectors and running lean and taking that chance of hurting the engine, reguardless if u have ran lean for too 2 years and nothing happen does not mean that things can go wrong and mess up an engine when its not tuned and modded correctly.
Only times I broke stuff was on bottle, and that was 100% my fault for running it on spray when I knew I shouldn't have been.
07-02-2012, 08:06 PM
#35
Please explain how IDC's above 80% are not harmful bsed on fact.
Holy lord, what a run on sentence...
Please explain how a join date to a forum provides any type of qualification. And being an "Original Gangsta" means what exactly?
Don't get me wrong. I am not putting Joe down as he has a nice home built dual pass and has helped several members out. But lets make sure we are not just blowing smoke up someones **** because I did something dangerous and got away with it.
Holy lord, what a run on sentence...
Please explain how a join date to a forum provides any type of qualification. And being an "Original Gangsta" means what exactly?
Don't get me wrong. I am not putting Joe down as he has a nice home built dual pass and has helped several members out. But lets make sure we are not just blowing smoke up someones **** because I did something dangerous and got away with it.
There is a risk of running lean when you are over 100% IDC, IF you are reaching that 100% IDC at an ideal AFR and still going well past it. If you are hitting 100% at a 10.0 AFR you could rev way past it and still never go over 11.8 or whatever your particular engine likes as a known "good" AFR.
Yes I know it's better to have more fuel than not enough, but that alone will not cause the symptoms the OP is having in this thread. I've seen my fair share of cobalts from stock to heavily modded, and an issue like this is 95% of the time a mechanical failure, not a tune issue. These cars will run dangerously lean and burn up a piston long before you notice that the car is running lean (assuming you don't have aftermarket gauges to monitor it).
Also, my experience with the GM injectors has been 100% fantastic, I ran two different sets of the stage kit injectors, had one set pulled and flow tested and they were very even with each other after 1.5 years of abuse in my car. I can't speak to the reliability of some of the cheaper options out there, but I personally have done and have seen others run in excess of 130% repeatedly and never seen one of the GM units fail.
07-03-2012, 01:26 AM
#36
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: 06-11-07
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How much do any of you know about tuning? How many of your signatures say tuned by someone other than yourselves?
Joe is right, if the car is happy with it then it will run. Some cars will handle leaner or richer AFRs than others, and with tuning and the right things going for you then 42s will work with a 2.8, Ive known several ppl that have run that setup and made more power than their counterparts with 60s. Its all in the tuning and if its done correctly.
Now if your car was running fine and all of sudden running bad, its mechanical not tuning.
Joe is right, if the car is happy with it then it will run. Some cars will handle leaner or richer AFRs than others, and with tuning and the right things going for you then 42s will work with a 2.8, Ive known several ppl that have run that setup and made more power than their counterparts with 60s. Its all in the tuning and if its done correctly.
Now if your car was running fine and all of sudden running bad, its mechanical not tuning.
07-03-2012, 02:28 AM
#39
Not that the majority of you would understand this... But here we go...
GM tunes run rich... how rich? low 10s, some dipping 9s... elevation, iat, plays a huge role in this. (HINT: ADDERS...)
In our OEM tunes consist a variety of adders... (stock, gm stg2, 3)
listing a few:
- piston protection
- cat over temp control (COT)
- fuel adder under main spark for coolant temp
- MAF/VE in conjunction with power enrichment (P.E.)
All of which dump fuel once given parameters are met. We all live in different climate zones, elevation... a medium has to be met
At 50' above sea level, stock 3.35" pulley and 32 lb injectors with basic bolt ons running 11.5-11.8 afr will see a **** hair under 100% IDC.
- Yes... that's right... we run past 100% IDC on a completely stock tune... and it likes to knock too if using 91 octane.
Why? simple... the car can breathe, opposite of a higher elevation situation, resulting in lower IDCs.
Back to the point here...
A 2.8 pulley on a bone stock gm stg2 will hardly lean the tune. The adders in place prevent it by using the methods above.
Remove the adders and you've just opened up a door of possibilities... (HPTUNERS...)
Italianjoe makes a great point regarding IDC above
as long as the injectors don't go static, and your AFR is where it needs to be... let it be 80, 90, 100, 110%... It really does not matter
Rule of thumb is sub 80%... Unless you can tune yourself and monitor your car's vitals, use the method to the left.
GM tunes run rich... how rich? low 10s, some dipping 9s... elevation, iat, plays a huge role in this. (HINT: ADDERS...)
In our OEM tunes consist a variety of adders... (stock, gm stg2, 3)
listing a few:
- piston protection
- cat over temp control (COT)
- fuel adder under main spark for coolant temp
- MAF/VE in conjunction with power enrichment (P.E.)
All of which dump fuel once given parameters are met. We all live in different climate zones, elevation... a medium has to be met
At 50' above sea level, stock 3.35" pulley and 32 lb injectors with basic bolt ons running 11.5-11.8 afr will see a **** hair under 100% IDC.
- Yes... that's right... we run past 100% IDC on a completely stock tune... and it likes to knock too if using 91 octane.
Why? simple... the car can breathe, opposite of a higher elevation situation, resulting in lower IDCs.
Back to the point here...
A 2.8 pulley on a bone stock gm stg2 will hardly lean the tune. The adders in place prevent it by using the methods above.
Remove the adders and you've just opened up a door of possibilities... (HPTUNERS...)
Italianjoe makes a great point regarding IDC above
as long as the injectors don't go static, and your AFR is where it needs to be... let it be 80, 90, 100, 110%... It really does not matter
Rule of thumb is sub 80%... Unless you can tune yourself and monitor your car's vitals, use the method to the left.
07-03-2012, 07:19 PM
#40
Not that the majority of you would understand this... But here we go...
GM tunes run rich... how rich? low 10s, some dipping 9s... elevation, iat, plays a huge role in this. (HINT: ADDERS...)
In our OEM tunes consist a variety of adders... (stock, gm stg2, 3)
listing a few:
- piston protection
- cat over temp control (COT)
- fuel adder under main spark for coolant temp
- MAF/VE in conjunction with power enrichment (P.E.)
All of which dump fuel once given parameters are met. We all live in different climate zones, elevation... a medium has to be met
At 50' above sea level, stock 3.35" pulley and 32 lb injectors with basic bolt ons running 11.5-11.8 afr will see a **** hair under 100% IDC.
- Yes... that's right... we run past 100% IDC on a completely stock tune... and it likes to knock too if using 91 octane.
Why? simple... the car can breathe, opposite of a higher elevation situation, resulting in lower IDCs.
Back to the point here...
A 2.8 pulley on a bone stock gm stg2 will hardly lean the tune. The adders in place prevent it by using the methods above.
Remove the adders and you've just opened up a door of possibilities... (HPTUNERS...)
Italianjoe makes a great point regarding IDC above
as long as the injectors don't go static, and your AFR is where it needs to be... let it be 80, 90, 100, 110%... It really does not matter
Rule of thumb is sub 80%... Unless you can tune yourself and monitor your car's vitals, use the method to the left.
GM tunes run rich... how rich? low 10s, some dipping 9s... elevation, iat, plays a huge role in this. (HINT: ADDERS...)
In our OEM tunes consist a variety of adders... (stock, gm stg2, 3)
listing a few:
- piston protection
- cat over temp control (COT)
- fuel adder under main spark for coolant temp
- MAF/VE in conjunction with power enrichment (P.E.)
All of which dump fuel once given parameters are met. We all live in different climate zones, elevation... a medium has to be met
At 50' above sea level, stock 3.35" pulley and 32 lb injectors with basic bolt ons running 11.5-11.8 afr will see a **** hair under 100% IDC.
- Yes... that's right... we run past 100% IDC on a completely stock tune... and it likes to knock too if using 91 octane.
Why? simple... the car can breathe, opposite of a higher elevation situation, resulting in lower IDCs.
Back to the point here...
A 2.8 pulley on a bone stock gm stg2 will hardly lean the tune. The adders in place prevent it by using the methods above.
Remove the adders and you've just opened up a door of possibilities... (HPTUNERS...)
Italianjoe makes a great point regarding IDC above
as long as the injectors don't go static, and your AFR is where it needs to be... let it be 80, 90, 100, 110%... It really does not matter
Rule of thumb is sub 80%... Unless you can tune yourself and monitor your car's vitals, use the method to the left.
But as you said most of the people who are so adament about not running this setup have never even opened an HPT file. I've given HP Tuners over $2000 in credit money since I bought it to use on my car, safe to say I've tuned a couple cars.
ONLY ONE THAT BROKE WAS MINE, AND ONLY ON NITROUS
If you don't know WHY you are saying to use 60lb injectors with anything under a 3" pulley, just admit to it. Don't go around talking like you know what the difference is if you actually don't. You're only fooling yourself
07-04-2012, 02:58 AM
#43
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: 06-11-07
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
100% Meth, ItalianJoe, great posts from the both of you, seems as if things cant be explained here so Im retiring from this thread, you both understand as well as I do but apparently if a shop says it cant be done then it is impossible and we should just give up and move on.
07-04-2012, 03:11 AM
#44
Word...
We work with what we got... long before ZZP became even remotely close to what it is now for the ecotec platform. We had 42s and the overly expensive @ the time 60s priced near $300 @ lethalperformance
I've yet to find a reason to even bother going past 60 lbers, running as high as 30 psi on a TVS/Lysholm. Substituting pump gas via a water injection nozzle allows me to keep IDCs below 80%.
We work with what we got... long before ZZP became even remotely close to what it is now for the ecotec platform. We had 42s and the overly expensive @ the time 60s priced near $300 @ lethalperformance
I've yet to find a reason to even bother going past 60 lbers, running as high as 30 psi on a TVS/Lysholm. Substituting pump gas via a water injection nozzle allows me to keep IDCs below 80%.
07-04-2012, 03:58 AM
#45
Its not ******* here-say its simple facts, u admitted it urself u was running lean up top, u got lucky and nothing happen expect blow ur motor. running lean for 2 years and then tossing some nitros on the car prolly had something to do with that. Im not saying U cant run a 2.8 and 42s Im saying its not safe for those at sea level as the injectors are maxed the hell out and cant keep up with the demand of fuel and u go lean. U also run into the problem of possible going static and/or having an injector get stuck just because someone wanted to push a item past its limits.
07-04-2012, 04:00 AM
#46
Word...
We work with what we got... long before ZZP became even remotely close to what it is now for the ecotec platform. We had 42s and the overly expensive @ the time 60s priced near $300 @ lethalperformance
I've yet to find a reason to even bother going past 60 lbers, running as high as 30 psi on a TVS/Lysholm. Substituting pump gas via a water injection nozzle allows me to keep IDCs below 80%.
We work with what we got... long before ZZP became even remotely close to what it is now for the ecotec platform. We had 42s and the overly expensive @ the time 60s priced near $300 @ lethalperformance
I've yet to find a reason to even bother going past 60 lbers, running as high as 30 psi on a TVS/Lysholm. Substituting pump gas via a water injection nozzle allows me to keep IDCs below 80%.
07-04-2012, 12:57 PM
#47
Its not ******* here-say its simple facts, u admitted it urself u was running lean up top, u got lucky and nothing happen expect blow ur motor. running lean for 2 years and then tossing some nitros on the car prolly had something to do with that. Im not saying U cant run a 2.8 and 42s Im saying its not safe for those at sea level as the injectors are maxed the hell out and cant keep up with the demand of fuel and u go lean. U also run into the problem of possible going static and/or having an injector get stuck just because someone wanted to push a item past its limits.
My car wasn't lean until I was far, far exceeding the normal 'stage 2/2.8' level. I was lean with cams and raised compression, revving to 7600. Then it was in the high 12's.
Static I already addressed. If you're afraid and want to give a ton of money to ZZP to appease your fears, go right ahead, I couldn't care less. I'm simply telling you guys what was done for YEARS, those of use who were ******* with MAF-T's and **** before HPT even existed. Just because you are new to this game doesn't mean everyone here is.
07-04-2012, 11:07 PM
#48
I'm at sea level retard...
My car wasn't lean until I was far, far exceeding the normal 'stage 2/2.8' level. I was lean with cams and raised compression, revving to 7600. Then it was in the high 12's.
Static I already addressed. If you're afraid and want to give a ton of money to ZZP to appease your fears, go right ahead, I couldn't care less. I'm simply telling you guys what was done for YEARS, those of use who were ******* with MAF-T's and **** before HPT even existed. Just because you are new to this game doesn't mean everyone here is.
My car wasn't lean until I was far, far exceeding the normal 'stage 2/2.8' level. I was lean with cams and raised compression, revving to 7600. Then it was in the high 12's.
Static I already addressed. If you're afraid and want to give a ton of money to ZZP to appease your fears, go right ahead, I couldn't care less. I'm simply telling you guys what was done for YEARS, those of use who were ******* with MAF-T's and **** before HPT even existed. Just because you are new to this game doesn't mean everyone here is.
07-04-2012, 11:58 PM
#49
All part of the game, you wanna make power you are gonna break stuff. At least I know what a fast cobalt is. I was DOING what people on here could only talk about for 2 years straight, with very little knowledge to guide the car, my build was trial and error because it had to be, there was nobody out there for anybody to follow.
Just your sig is enough to know that I won't win with you, but I dunno, i'll try anyway
Just your sig is enough to know that I won't win with you, but I dunno, i'll try anyway
07-05-2012, 12:55 AM
#50
Why You wanna break stuff if that will cost you more money and time. If it was me, I rather be safe than sorry. I understand that you are in different areas and different temperature down there. I am just saying play with your car smart not beat the hell out of it then BOOM! OH CRAP! I gotta fix it! Wait I don't know if my budgets cut out for it. You know what I am saying ? I am not gonna pry on you who want to see what happen but at the same time be smart about it. If whoever is happy with their car and tune. Many of us has many different ways of knowledge when it's come to tuning.