boostbalt

Hi all,
Before "canned tunes suck, don't get a canned tune, get your car tuned locally" I'd like to acknowledge:

1. All stock vehicles come with a canned tune
2. Canned tunes, for other makes, are the tuning standard (ie. APR for VW)
3. Some of us don't have access to a dyno

These things being said, the ZZP PCM 1.0 tune has done nothing but wonders for my 06' LSJ. I'm the original owner of this car and I've gone through 4 different tunes during the years. All of said tunes have had 1 or more years on them, however, none have affected the engine nearly as much as ZZP's did.

I opted to send in my PCM to ZZP instead of them sending me a new PCM core. This was a great decision because it meant I didn't need to do any case relearn, nor security relearn, I simply re-installed the PCM and it fired up first try.

I did a quick pull around the block, being quite careful to ensure that the engine sounded normal. I was instantly taken back by how much quieter the engine idled, as well, as I went around the block I noticed a new "silkiness" to the power delivery. I barely got into boost, but I couldn't believe how smooth everything was operating under the hood.

I pulled back into the driveway, promptly put an entire can of SeaFoam through the vacuum line carefully and drove moderately around to de-carbon the engine (picture a 100 foot long wall of white exhaust coming out the back!). I can safely say that my entire neighborhood thinks my car is a pollution monster, they have no idea what I was doing, and I am sure they despise me now. Kind of fun.

Anyway, installed a brand new set of plugs, gapped at 0.40 with the ZZP coil packs, and proceeded to test drive it in all scenarios I could think of. I was expecting some compromise, like worse idle for more power, or better idle for less power, but neither were true. The benefits I concluded on were:

1. Better fuel economy due to less richness (400KM avg economy of 8.5L/100 KM vs 9.6L/100KM)
2. Much smoother idle, less engine noise and way less vibration at idle
3. Power deliver was very linear
4. Less exhaust odor with windows down (due to less richness)
5. 1st gear acceleration is fantastic, almost like there's a new gear ratio, this was a surprise!
6. No dead spot b/w 1st and 2nd
7. No check engine lights
8. Increase of power, modest, but could be deceiving due to linear delivery

Previously, I thought of tuning as trying to obtain that magical ratio of air to fuel. However, now I realize tuning is more about knowing the subtleties of the engine and tuning it for not only max power, but also max versatility and refinement (in the case of improved idle). I speculate that a local tuner, without intimate knowledge of the LSJ, could not re-produce all of the benefits I found above.

What do you think?

All in all, I couldn't be happier that my car is now perfect for me.

63 Nova SS

iTrader: (3)

Glad you had good luck with it

ionRL_585

Nice man I am leaning more towards this but still have trifecta in mind for my lnf. Keep us updated bc I'm very interested.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

for some canned tunes work well, for other not so well. i find the closer the rest is to stock, or you buy an entire upgrade package, the better a canned tune will be.

in my case i bought a zzp stage 3 kit with 60lb injectors and 2.7" pulley, zzp intake, already had header, exhaust and cooling mods. the tune they supplied gave me a surging idle, terrible fuel economy, terrible part throttle driveability, and after 3 e-mail revisions (of which all that was cleaned up was heavy throttle) i was told nothing was wrong with the tune and there was something wrong with the car, then they proceeded to ignore my emails. needless to say i learned to tune in a hurry with help from some people and comparing my tune with others, and i was able to get the car idling well, part throttle and cruising to be like it was stock, and get the fuel economy back, even slightly better than it was prior (and that was essentially gm stage 2 with a 2.9" pulley). when i eventually did throw it on the dyno we were only able to coax another 7 hp and 10 lb/ft out of it, so i was pretty close for a street tune.

so yea, canned tunes work for some, not for others.

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

I would say you are more lucky than anything. Definitely wouldn't call your results typical. I have seen more canned tunes cause drivability issues than actually turned out alright. Like fueling issues so far off it causes misfires/surging/sputtering. There is a reason people recommend getting a refined tune with these cars. That being said if your car is running great then there is no need to get a customized tune and the canned tune is fine. However, canned tunes are generally set up on the side of caution (pull timing, enrich WOT fueling) so there is probably more power to be had if you got a custom tune. Have you observed your AFR during a WOT pull?

hawkssoccer11

iTrader: (13)

if this canned tune, made your car that much better, who in the hell did you have tuning your car before hand lol?

Henry3959

That's what I was thinking? There are owners driving anywhere between sea level and 13000' ASL. I'm sure ZZP sets for near sea level so anywhere higher at start up and WOT you just run richer.

boostbalt

I appreciate your response. Definitely the there can be issues with canned tunes, however, this particular PCM tune by ZZP seems to be a hit for not just myself. They have many 5 star reviews on it, and I can attest to the same experience as those other reviewers.

Perhaps ZZP has a tune that works because they have experience with the engine and finally put the refinement needed into a canned tune. I don't necessarily think the "canning" nature of the tune is the problem, it's the tuner.

However, I have not observed my AFR, it's all butt dyno verified, though it is much better relative to before. Since it's running so smooth, I'd dare not re-tune, the power is more than acceptable as well.

jdbaugh1

iTrader: (1)

The problem with canned tunes isn't the tune itself, it is its inability to compensate for unique variations between different or the similar setups. So when they can't account for every little variation they tend to erred on the side of caution which means lower ignition timing advance and richer A/F. You're car may be running better than before but there is a decent chance it could run even better. Just like I threw my car on the dyno yesterday and discovered it is running like a turd up where it should be making peak power. Before I put it on the dyno I though it was running great up there but for my setup it is nowhere near the potential IMO. If you're happy and your A/Fs are good then you are good to go. Don't LSJs have stock wideband? I think it would be a good idea to at least check your AFRs. You can be running rich and it will still feel good on the butt dyno but you could be making your cylinder walls wet and lessening the life of your piston rings from washing away lubrication.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

the lsj doesnt have a factory wideband, thats the lnf.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

they get all of the 5 stars from people who have no clue just like you

Viperoni

Aside this bitch smack roast of a reply, the OP's comparison is horribly flawed....

He "did a quick pull around the block, being quite careful to ensure that the engine sounded normal" and "pulled back into the driveway, promptly put an entire can of SeaFoam through the vacuum line"..... then seafoams, changes the plugs and installs new coils.

The last 2 alone could make the idle smoother/quieter if there were issues that were hidden...
Heck I had misfire so bad I had boost cut and bucking and it never threw a code, only found out with Torque and looking at my misfire counts.

double clutch

iTrader: (1)

I rather enjoy mr. b's posts. He doesn't sugarcoat it

boostbalt

Please be more respectful, your reply is not warranted.

boostbalt

Nor does he have anything useful to add, it's just rude.

boostbalt

Owned the car for 11 years, I've seafoamed it at least 10 times. Seafoam isn't a miracle worker. My methodology was sound as I isolated the tune by changing only this variable; that's when I noticed the majority of the benefits. Certainly seafoaming then doing plugs didn't hurt after, but that's a bonus.

ECaulk

iTrader: (6)

No its totally warranted.

Henry3959

Had he left off the last 3 words it would have been more appropriate.

hawkssoccer11

iTrader: (13)

you guys dont know Mr.B well enough yet. thats how he is. he's a straight shooter, always has been and always will be. i will tell you this though, he's no dummy at all. he knows his stuff! he's been around a long time. so take it how you will, if your too sensitive then thats your own fault.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

if the truth hurts that bad get some thicker skin

Henry3959

Truth doesn't bother me... I look everywhere else before buying from ZZP now. I have put $4027.31 into my Son's Cobalt since Ryan told me to go somewhere else and I am now just starting on the engine internals which will easily be another $2000.00

Honestly I figured it was an inside post

Viperoni

My point is that you didn't do a proper comparison with just the one mod and actually drove around a bit, getting into the throttle too.

My concern with seafoaming would be dirtying the plugs, but even if it didn't, the fact you did it so soon after you swapped the ECM could mean it helped clear up and issue as well.

I have seafoamed a few cars before, but on my IRL I've only ever cleaned the TB a couple of times, and I'm at 217k kms now.

double clutch

iTrader: (1)

Ryan from zzp told you to go somewhere else?

Henry3959

Sure did... would you like to see the email?

user 72239

iTrader: (4)

I would