H/E Pump ?
 

Okay well I have had alot of trouble w/ the intercooler setup on my car. First off the pump I thought had died on me awhile back so I then replaced it with one off of a Cobra, same pump(Bosch Water Pump). On my installation process I noticed that my stock pump wasnt burned up but the connection was messed up. So I thought I would go ahead and put the new/used one on there. Well here recently it died on me completely. Im guessing the motor burned up but didnt have a chance to smell it before I tossed it. So I proceed to put my stock one on back on there which seems to be working fine when I first hooked it up. I checked the connection and everything was gravy. But now I am seeing now coolant flow throught my filler cap, nothing. Who knows if the pump is dead or not, I guess its working seeing as my IAT2's are still 10-15 degree's above the outside temperature. My question here is there a better, higher GPM flowing pump that will work better? I have found this pump that people use over the Bosch Style pump(Johnson CM30 Water Pump). I have called my local tuning shops and they have to get back to me on the question. I have heard through the grapevine that the Ford GT pump flows alot better then the previous versions but from my research and talking to S6M it is a Bosch style pump. Well if that is the case then they all must be the same b/c the pump that comes on our cars as well as Cobra's, Lightning's, ect is the highest flowing pump that Bosch makes(here is the different Bosch pumps-Linkage)


So has anybody gone with a different water pump or are you still on the factory one?

Thanks

Using one out of a Lightning. But they use the same one as us so i guess just a stock replace,ent.

Bump

The only problem with the Johnson CM30 is the flow is less than the Bosch. Bosch has a flow rate of 9.0 GPM while the CM30 only flows at 6.9 GPM. Now taking into effect -2.5 GPM of turbulance and hydrostatic head to flow through the stock IC and HE that leaves you with 6.5 GPM and 4.4 GPM of flow respectively.

I will be replacing mine with a Bosch pump shortly and adding my Cobra HE.

What about an upgrade above the Bosch?

Sorry. Don't follow. If you are talking about the one just above it on the bosch web site or the Johnson? The Delivery and Delivery Pressure are less if you are talking about the pump on the bosch page. I was looking for som more info on the Johnson CM30.

I meant is there a better pump then the Bosch? Out there anywhere?

Here is the info on the Johnson CM30. Yes it looks more Heavy duty but it's delivery is less:

10-24502-04 CM30P7-1 12V, 26L/min @ 0.1 bar (6.9 @3.3 ft)

Just stick with the stock one... you shouldn't have a problem. AND you'll notice the difference in your IAT2's when you are at Full Throttle. Go do like 3 WOT runs... 2nd - 4th gear on the interstate. Pull over... and check your coolant. If you have none... then your problem is the pump. I ran into this before.

Also, you can start the car and just take the cap off and look. It should LOOK like its flowing (bubbles, etc.) If you have any other questions, ask. My pump stopped working over the summer and I diagnosed it myself... the dealership couldn't figure it out.

What about splitting the line and running two pumps? Say one to each side of a dual-pass?

Hmmm... Now your going to make me start thinking Fluid Mechanics. Good question though.

The other thing to remember is that DEX Cool is corrosive and the stock pumps have a metal shaft with a polymer or plastic screw. The Dex corrodes the plastic and the screw wont turn only the shaft. The other thing is the actual motor dies eventually because of the overrotation caused by friction and seises because there is no resistance.

This is just my theory from talking with others.

cheers

It would probably flow at a little faster rate but probably nothing that would make a difference. B/c the pumps run at 1 speed, the fluid will just stay at that same speed nothing more.( I think )

Yes you are correct. By adding the second pump you will not create more deliverability. for more flow you need to increase Hydrostatic head and both pumps flow and deliver the same.

fuck GPM, you need to focus on head flow numbers, thats the trick.

a pump can move 100gpm and only have a 2ft head volume and that would be totally useless on our car.

the next thing to consider is that GPM=flow velocity, a faster fluid velocity equates out to less time the fluid has to pick up heat from the 4 cores, thus lowering the system efficiency.

so keep the same GPM(or close to) and look for better head volumes, then you'll have a usefull pump.
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p.s.=maybe this is the long ass work day talken, or maybe not, but ranger, your girl is smooken!

i'm not giving you any more tunes or advice until i see something like that up here by me in Michigan!

Haha, you give me your secret idea that you were talking about and we will fly up to Michigan lol

lol no good man, i just gave you the answer you need^^^^

start looking....the marine area is the correct location......

thats your hint.

i don't know what to say to that exactly, unless your pump creates heat, there shouldn't be any efficiency loss whatsoever. I can also argue and say a slower pump leaves liquid in the cores too long maxing out the heat latency for the water lowering the cooling efficiency. If water is moving through the cores faster, that means that it may not heat the water up as much, but the cooling effect would be greater.

I don't believe it has anything to do with efficiency, the effective cooling from the laminova cores will be approximately the same either way, but it is true that the longer water stays in the cores, the more it heats up and the less cooling that that volume of water can do. THere should be no loss in efficiency, one larger reason for a faster flowing pump is to reduce heatsoak. The faster the liquid flows, the faster it can get to the heat exchanger and cool down and the faster that cooling effect is transfered to the laminova cores.

Please, i don't mean to be mean, I'm just trying to state fluid mechanics and heat transfer facts. False assumptions can lead to future problems and financial mistakes. (GPM = Volumetric Flow)

wont be mean here,

basic stuff here.

presume that you still have the OEM dex-cool mix in your IC

now the stock pump has been matched to the cars OEM specs, adding HE's and such have an effect but only as great as that HE's PD across it. most fluid HE's arnt to bad here.

none the less, we have 4 ic cores, the fluid in stock form goes across all of them, picking up heat from them every moment the fluid is in the "hot" part of the system.

now if i have a pump that flows the IC fluid at a faster rate it will pick up less heat from the cores due to less transfer time.

and the opposite is true if you flow fluid to slow, you'll pick up as much heat as the fluid can hold(surface tensions, ect,ect determine that) now say it slows down enough to hit that max heat capacity in the 3rd core, so when it flow to the 4th it has no effect.

thus lowering your IC systems efficiency because your not pulling you maximum amount of heat out of the system.

even tho the fluid pulls more heat out of the first 3 cores that 4th core is hot enough to offset the system in a negative manor.

Fluid Mechanics/Dynamics
 

I beleive that is what I was saying before he bitched me out. :lol: I was going to continue in the direction you went but you beat me to it.

When you are talking flow and efficiency everything deals with volume, heat, Pressure and time. So adding a slower/faster deliverable pump may not solve anything. Now adding an extra radiator (Heat Exchanger) yes you may want a pump that can move the current stock volume of fluid + the added volume but even then you are moving fluid along a restricted path that only alows for so much fluid to be passed (Hydro Head) under a curtain pressure, tempurature, time and velocity.

cheers

Hmmm gotcha

This is a lot of quoting, but i do see where you're coming from. What you're not thinking about is that we're not talking about heat transfer per volume now. Yes, the amount of heat transfer PER volume will decrease with a faster flowing pump. Since the Volumetric Flow is quicker, it may be harder to transfer the same amount of heat to that one volume that passed, but you have a constant flow going through the laminova cores which means there is still just as much or maybe better heat exchange.

Its hard to explain but lets go by a single volume of water, the amount of heat per volume transfered will be less, so less heat is soaked up in that volume of water, but the flow speed of that volume will be quicker. so it is quicker to the H/E as well and it will transfer heat and cool down, but has less heat in that volume so it needs less time. Then that volume of cooled down water rushes off to the cores again to suck up heat.

I have taken many classes pertaining to fluid mechanics and heat transfer and the efficiency of the laminova cores will not suffer due to flow increase, same with the heat exchanger. I like where your head is at on thinking out the problem logically, i feel that you're thinking more in a single volume with increased velocity that is expelled through the system than focusing on a closed loop of increased velocity.

Edit:(The main reason for inefficiency as i said before is the heating up of the coolant, if the coolant has more heat in it, it cannot cool down the air charge as much. Thus you want the lowest temps you can in your coolant, so you want it to barely heat it up before you cool it back down again to keep it at a low temperature to help cool down more air charge. faster flow = better efficiency - only if there isn't pressure build up and your pump doesn't create excess heat.)

ok, i'll buy into that.

good grief this is giving me a headache...

without all the Mr Wizard crap...

Let's say I install a Cobra HE. Would I gain anything from upgrading the pump?

No...but if you could find a better quality pump let us know.:twothumbs

I haven't really logged any IAT2 temps before i installed my upgraded pump, but i know that with my setup when i still had the cat, i wouldn't see more than 140 degrees on a 0-120mph run in 80 degree weather. I have a dual pass and a Jabsco 0012-50830. Pump Comparison Charting and Information .

I have an option b so that i have more volume of water to run through the system to offset heat soak more. I believe with a larger pump that you will see more efficiency with additional heat exchangers, our stock heat exchanger is sandwiched in a hotspot and isnt' very good. I am hoping to see some great gains when i install a front mount heat exchanger this spring. So yes, i think you would see a little bit of gain with an upgraded pump, but not what you'd expect. Quicker falling temps from heatsoak is probably the biggest effect.